It seems Swat called them and gave them a heads up, so they were waiting for us. My dad said Swat had said he was going out with some friends to decompress. So I knew he was drinking. Around 3am he called to make sure we were alright and if there had been any problems. He said he talked to the shift supervisor and they had not arrested OM yet. He sounded pretty drunk so I asked if he was alright. He said he was and thanked me for asking. I told him I loved him and I would talk to him this morning. It took him a few seconds but he answered me with a "me too and I'll see you later."
It doesn't seem like much but when he made me breakfast and just calls to make sure the kids and I are alright. Those moments are like gold to me. I'm going to be the best person and wife I can be. I'm not perfect and I'll make mistakes, but I'm going to be honest about them and hopefully he will be able to trust me again someday.
I know there is no quick fix to this. I know there are going to be good and bad days. The rollercoaster as everyone calls it. I've seen Swat up and down and there has been anger I hope never see again. I want to do work to be a better person and partner is Swat ever decides to give me another chance.
I've seen Swat up and down and there has been anger I hope never see again
Oh, but you will. And much, much worse. Conventional wisdom on SI is that the "anger phase" hits at about 6 months. (ETA: You have two DDays so hard to know when the clock started.) When BH first read that? He was like, puh-lease, I'll be way past this in 6 months! But right on schedule, yep, it happened. Heck, just last week he had an angry eruption and accused me of "wayward behavior" in response to the way I handled a situation. And that sucks, for both of us, but thanks to a lot of hard work we're finally developing the communication skills to resolve those conflicts.
It may not feel like it at the time, but if SWAT stays...consider yourself lucky when the anger phase hits. We're supposed to share our feelings with our partners. It's when we start keeping them to ourselves that trouble brews.
[This message edited by 20WrongsVs1 at 7:14 AM, May 20th, 2014 (Tuesday)]
I, like SWAT, I think, felt I had a treasure for a wife and mother of my children. Just like most BSs here. She was and is beautiful (more beautiful now than when we married 37 years ago), intelligent, full of life, she made me whole. But what was on the outside was a facade. She was and still is so broken inside. There was evidence of that throughout our marriage but it has really come to light since DDay 3. She is working on it but there is 45 years of hidden pain and defense mechanisms to overcome.
The reson for my adding to your thread is to comment on the anger issue. I am 9.5 months past DDay 1 and 6 months past DDay 3. I want you to know that the comment by 20Wrongs about anger is spot on. For a couple of months after DDay 1 I ran the scale of emotions including rage. I drove two legs of an oak dining room chair through the floor before smashing the chair into kindling. The holes are still there covered with duct tape (they should use real wood for flooring). I do not have rage any more thank God. But at about 7 months after DDay 1 periods of anger became more apparent and are still happening. Last week I was going to start the D process (two days of anger). The anger is just below the surface looking for anything to spark it. Then I am back hoping for a long, happy, rewarding life with my WW. Roller coaster alive and well. So, like 20Wrongs, I just wanted to warn you that there is more to come. It is a long process for the betrayed and the wayward.
I worry that my WW will not have the stamina, determination and commitment to stick it out. Because it is a rough ride. I hope you can stick it out and dig deep to be able to heal and that you have the courage to help SWAT heal no matter what the outcome of the marriage relationship is.
My prayers are with you and SWAT.
As for you... When I was reading your post, and you stated you need attention and you get bored, you reminded me of my wh. He always would get so bored even before the A... he would love when women showed him any little interest.. even a smile... he would always ask me" she just smiled, does that mean she likes me"?
My point is: You were bored so you created drama, you needed attention so you chose to go after a man other than your husband (swat was boring) to create a fantasy that filled your world with ego kibbles. It was not enough for you that you have a wonderful husband and family, who takes care of you and protects you, you is LOYAL to you.
I do think you are starting to get it but you really need to start with some root issues or it will happen again. Trust that.
I feel that you will make however, if you get the help you need. I love how you are seeing it now and wanting to do something about it.
Many blessing you both of you!
"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"
Instead, I want to offer you hope.
My wife's affair was an ugly one - all the stuff that a betrayed husband never wants to learn and can't believe his wife is capable of. But we survived. Two years later we are stronger than we have ever been - and that is the hope I want to pass along to you.
We are together now because, when I was screaming at her the most vile, hateful things that have ever spewed from my mouth, she took it all - and didn't run away from it. When I got so incensed that I walked out of the house, she chased after me, grabbed my arm, and she fought for me. She fought for us because she knew that she loved me and didn't want for our marriage to end. She fought for me because she felt that if her affair had truly ended the marriage, the very least she could do was go down swinging.
I respect that. I appreciate the fact that over the past 2 1/2 years my wife has looked at me with an understanding that doesn't need to be spoken. We rarely discuss the affair now - but she knows when I'm thinking about it. And she is there. With a touch of a hand or a smile or a note or a text message with a heart. She knows how close we were to losing everything and how fragile our lives will be from now on.
And I reciprocate. I feel her pain and I understand how much she hurts from what she's done. That is called moving toward each other - and your husband will, one day, move back toward you. In little but clear steps.
At the end of the day it isn't going to matter much what the online psychologists say. It isn't going to matter what the "norm" is on SI. What is going to matter is the two of you sitting opposite each other, looking into each other's eyes, and his feeling - deep in his soul - if he can trust you again. Can he? You only have to answer that to yourself.
My message to you is one of hope. For you to know that it CAN be done. I am rooting for both of you.
I haven't officially welcomed you, so welcome to the place no one ever wants to be, but wants/needs to be in this situation. It is now somewhat of a second home for me because the insight has been often a lifesaver in many situations and has never steered me wrong. I'm sure you can imagine what it means to SWAT that you are here too.
I don't post to many others, but the ones I do, it's usually a book because I see part of myself or my BS in those situations and I want nothing more than to provide something that has helped us.
It must be scary it can be right now with an AP that is literally stalking you and your family. One thing I will offer right away is that your BS might be struggling with at the moment (on top of everything else) is that he hasn't really had a moment to clear his mind from all of this (except for his DC trip) without worry of contact from the AP. Maybe rather than more apologies right now, it might help him by asking if there is anything else you can provide for him (even if you may think there isn't) that would help the contact situation with the AP.
One thing I've noticed so far is that you haven't mentioned being angry with the AP for his crazy actions. After all, hasn't he caused your family enough pain and suffering? Maybe you are and just haven't quite voiced it on here. (Maybe I missed it. I have to be honest that I haven't caught up on posts in the last week. ) Some ways you could maybe show your BS that you are seriously ready to take this to the next level would be research similar cases of and how to prosecute this crazy guy or inquire about installing a security system if you don't already have one, or buying a taser/pepper spray or a self-defense class or arrange an emergency meeting with the DA or judge regarding the AP's constant disregard for you or your family's privacy and even destruction of private property. I'm sure these are ways to get the point across to the AP that you are serious about NC without contacting him and show your BH that you are taking some responsibility for your actions and what you have caused rather than SWAT having to call his friends or department about it. That has to be embarrassing for him every time it happens. Now it's your turn to help pick up his pieces you broke apart and face it. I'm not saying alone, heck no, don't do that…be sure that you run ANY and ALL of this by SWAT first and have his blessing, then proceed.
My BS and I have read your story (via SWAT) since the beginning. I have to be honest that watching you come on to SI and share your story was a huge relief to both of us. I've hoped that you could find the understanding of how to begin to heal yourself here the way I did. If you really commit, you will find peace in knowing that your way of thinking will become healthier and as a result this will help SWAT know that you are truly working on yourself…not trying.
I know you've posted a few times, but I want to remind you of a few things about SI that will help you with your insecurities as a whole because they helped me.
If you use these ideas as a base when you are reading on SI, the advice that you receive here will ultimately.
As you you've entered a forum that is safe and will give you advice and insight that our MC couldn't even dream of providing. I want to begin with one thing to remember each time you receive feedback:
1: What you have been doing so far has not worked.
2. If you could jump in a time machine and choose differently, I'm sure you would…but you can't. You can, however, change your future outcome right now.
When you post and receive feedback on here, know that almost every WW/WH on here will give you "time machine" advice (aka advice that you would tell yourself based on experience.
3. The first thing you have to do is let go of the outcome of your marriage.
You've said that you know that SWAT is driving the bus now but then you say
I want to do work to be a better person and partner is Swat ever decides to give me another chance.
This is where things are tricky… there is a thread that I think will be very helpful for you. It's regarding sympathy vs. empathy.
You will know when you reach empathy because you immediately have a reaction similar to your BS' on their DDAY. Everything you couldn't "feel" during the A and during your separation from your AP hits you all at once. You realize the maximal damages of your actions. I don't mean as in I'm sorry for what I've done because I might loose my marriage, my husband and my family kind of way, but you feel sick to your stomach, you want to puke your guts out (for me I literally went numb in my arms and hands from a pure panic attack…thought I was having a heart attack.)
small example |t/j (thread jack)|
I remember right before DDAY #2 for my BS that I discovered that I never was truly empathetic with my BS on what I had truly done to him. I put myself into his shoes and then re-told my A story using his name and my actions. It literally was a game changer for me.
As a result of my discovery of empathy, even though it had been a year since our DDAY, I empathized with him for the first time and realized that we could never move forward unless he knew everything, even if it meant a D. (ie. For me, it was telling my BS about a 2nd AP and my ridiculous dating patterns that ultimately lead to a ONS when we were dating. It was even harder, in a sense because I had been on SI for about a month and knew that 2nd DDays and TT can be the ultimate destructor for R and even if it wasn't, it would make R even more difficult.
Very, very, very gently I am about to tell you one of the biggest areas I believe you can grow in that will help you empathize and see what everyone who has posted sees and why we are all saying that you must let go of the outcome: most of your posts in this thread are not so much about your insecurities other than the idea of how SWAT is feeling about you.
Even knowing all of this, you have to think of it this way. You know your BS loves you. You know you destroyed your BS. You want to comfort him, but you cannot because he needs time to gather his thoughts and try to find something that he believes he can trust again when there is literally nothing at the moment. THIS IS THE TIME TO START SHOWING IT. For my BS, I gave up anything that made him question contact. Give him all of your old email addresses, let him change the passwords, tell him you never want access to them again. Take a polygraph. Give him peace that you have told him everything. One of the biggest fears is that there could be more out there left that had happened left to destroy him. I'm not sure if you have given him a timeline of all of the events but if he wants one, that be good to give him information before the polygraph so that he can confirm it. This will be the part that you let go. He can't trust you until you start providing him information that he isn't discovering, instead you are giving it to him.
There have been several BS/WW that have D'd and then later R'd and then re-M'd because the WW did the hard work and became self aware of what made them choose an A. Here's one way to think of it: SWAT70 is hurt and lonely far more than you ever were prior to your A.
Another thing that jumps out at me is that you saw another woman flirting and felt uneasy because he didn't even realize that someone was hitting on him. This is definitely a learning moment. (It was for me too with a similar situation with my BS. ) Take a moment and reflect on this; think: Why he is unaware of these situations and I am?
I'll nudge you in that direction that it begins within and how you see a situation. Your BS wasn't looking for internal validation because he's committed to you; because of that, he didn't allow himself to think about it; or, if he did, he did not continue to dwell on the situation. This is healthy way of thinking. My BS once said to me, I want to you to be so healthy that I can feel comfortable if you sit down next to Ryan Gosling. Case and point was made for me with that one sentence.
4. What you think about situations directly effects your actions. It's hard to change what has been ingrained in you through experiences that have shaped the way you make decisions, therefore you have to go back to each of those moments (as if you had a time machine) and understand why you made that decision.You've said,
Where to start? I have quickly realized a lot of my issues and how messed up my thinking has been for most of my life. I discovered that usually I need to be the center of attention and create drama and manipulate people.
This is wonderful that you see these things. Now it is to dig deep and find out why you thought all of these things are part of your thinking that validates fixing loneliness or your need for attention. It's scary and very hard to think about these things. (trust me.) In the end, I've found writing out my why would be so complex that it would literally make a 1,000+ page novel. The quickest way to recognize these moments are when you feel that automatic defensive response kick in that causes these poor decisions, then you recognize them and immediately restructure the way you should handle the situation. (For me, I started out by writing down a moment I made a poor decision---> the way I handled it and then the healthier way of thinking that I will choose next time.
For example: BEFORE your PA, when you were unhappy (whether your reason be that you were lonely, sad, like to create drama, etc) in your marriage some healthy options to improve would be talk to your BH, attend counseling if the issue continues, 180 him next to provide distance to get your thoughts together, or last resort option the D.
I say all of these things because I had someone say them to me and it helped. It is the mere reason why my BS is here today with me and has re-gifted me with R now that he knows that my actions are backing up my words.
Find that empathy. Walk in his shoes, feel what he is feeling, comfort him when he is ready about things you are discovering that lead you to your choice, but ultimately show him what he needs to see which is action-(not to be confused with transparency), not judging his harsh or angry words (instead offer understanding for that anger and validating his words that he says), and in your case, prosecuting this OM until he gets the point that you are angry and absolutely done with any contact from him.
You are not alone in this path. I am (along with many other WWs) rooting for your healing.
In my dream we had false R and eventually he just left. He abandoned me and the kids. I know IRL he would never do that, but it seemed so real at the time.I hurt and if he is feeling even the smallest amount of pain I felt when I woke up, it is too much.
I do not know what it is? Is it remorse or more regret? Or is it nothing? I've second guessed everything I've said and done to and with him recently. I'm second guessing what I write here. During one argument over my affair he asked he how I would feel it he cheated and now I know. During that argument I don't think I had any frame of reference. I know him and he just is not capable of it, so his words really had no meaning. But in my dream I saw him and the woman and it was liking watching a movie it was so detailed. I would be able to recognize the woman if she was real.
He asked how you would feel - and your subconscious ran a simulation of the event to find out.
I do not know what it is? Is it remorse or more regret? Or is it nothing?
Perhaps it is empathy.
SoSorry, be proactive as much as you can. For the recent example with last email from the OM. Swat asked you to handle it. You handled the situation this time, but go further and see what you can do to prevent future occurrences. I don't have any suggestion on how as I don't know anything about LEO life and its benefits. Maybe talk to the other LEO wives for support in this? Keep him informed of how you are handling things, who you are talking to.
The thing is, he shouldn't bear the responsibility to clean the mess you made. He has taken care of you and the children for so long. Now its time to show what strength you have to take care of him and the children this time. Take the load off for him.
Be selfless in your actions. Do everything you can for him without expecting anything back. The love and the care will show in your actions.
Cherish those little moments he gives you and does for you. Understand that these are gifts to you. Thank him. Tell you love him with your eyes and your smile.
I don't know why I need to tell you this, but maybe it will resonate with you. I tell my boys that I won't ever be angry with them for spilling milk, just as long as they are the first to take responsibility of their mess and first to clean it before asking for help. I want them to understand that next time they handle their cup of milk, they should think about where they should place it, how to hold it, the way they should drink it, so they don't become careless and spill it again and deal with another mess they made.
If there ever was a crucible to determine how deep your love for Swat is and whether you can become a better person for you and him in the future, this is it.
You are doing great so far, but there much MUCH more to do. Hang in there. I'm pulling for both of you.
It is good to be able to put yourself in his shoes to understand as best you can what he is going through. If you are able to get some of these feeling from a vivid dream than I see this is a good thing.
* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.
I am angry with AP(20wrongs I'm listening), I don't use the word hate often when talking about people, but in this instance hate isn't even strong enough. But at the same time I was a willing participant which leads me to hate myself. When it comes to defending myself physically I'm probably more than capable. My dad was former military and always made sure us kids knew how to fight and use firearms. I studied martial arts for years as a teen and young adult. Swat also taught me a lot and he is awesome at MMA. Which makes the fact he was ambushed and went through the window even more difficult.
With out giving TMI, I will quote a passage of his citation. "Even while 'Officer SWAT' was engaged in an extremely violent altercation with a better armed and prepared subject, 'Officer Swat' showed his valor. 'Officer Swat' through his relentless hard work and dedication to duty, made the decision that this extremely violent and widely sought after fugitive would be brought to justice. Even after sustaining grave and life threatening injuries 'Officer Swat' showed the true meaning of valor and fought for justice and the safety of the citizens"
I've received several messages and PM's about my husband and his character. You don't have to tell me about his character I see it everyday. He is a true hero and he is a hero to ME and our kids. I choose to lose sight of that for a time and I'll have to live with that decision for the rest of my life.
Today has been eventful so far. I've contacted the DA's office and asked if they needed anything else from me to aid the prosecution. I was assured they didn't need anything else at this time. The ADA and I had a long talk. She isn't the same one from the other day. She told me that while they are trying very hard to get AP to take a plea bargain in which he gets a criminal record they are preparing for a trial as well. Seems she read the entire case and believes AP may try to draw out the process in an attempt to humiliate BH further. The ADA said she is doing what she can to avoid further pain for him and to keep the department out of the spot light. I also had my IC appt. I've written a lot of my thoughts down and printed out all of my posts and several of your replies from here. I told IC about joining SI and that BH was here as well. She said she was glad I had done that. During my appt I suffered a typical (for me) case of verbal diarrhea. IC knows BH screen name and said she was going to read his posts as well. I wasn't sure if she should, but she said it would help her to help me. Any thoughts?
This afternoon I'm going to look for MC's who specialize in infidelity as well as a therapist for the kids.
Sorry if I rambled on. And to think I haven't even had a coffee yet.
I told IC about joining SI and that BH was here as well. She said she was glad I had done that.
Well that's a first. Most ICs don't want anyone else giving any advice on anything, so they 'condemn' any kind of support group that they haven't recommended.
Nice to see someone saying nice things about SI.
redsox, that was what I was thinking and asked her to wait, but she seemed certain it would help. She did say she would wait to hear from me. But now I realized I screwed up again. I gave her all of my posts and stuff and his name is everywhere in there. I should have edited them all and blacked out his name. How hard is that to do? I was so excited and I wanted IC to see what I have done and completely forgot to protect him yet again. Why can't I get anything right?
Here! Now! Right now is an opportunity--do you see it?
Just text him immediately and tell him everything. Why you brought the emails to IC, what you intended, what she asked, what you realized later. Just be honest.
You have an opportunity right now to get something huge right--by owning a mistake instead of papering it over or actively lying about it.
My best thinking brought me to SI.
I have been following your story and appreciate the efforts you are making.
That being said, there was one sentence you wrote that has been nagging at me all day "During one argument over my affair he asked he how I would feel it he cheated and now I know."
Gently, I hope you don't use the words that you "now know" how it would feel if Swat had an affair. As a BS, that would offend me greatly. You had a dream - his is real life.
People have dreams that horrible things happened and they wake up and all is still right in their world. Swat can't wake up from his nightmare, he has to live it.
I believe you are trying to understand and I commend you for that. Right now, the words you choose are important and I wanted to point out how hurtful this could be.
You are not screwing up - these are HONEST mistakes. The way to rectify them is with full honesty and transparency. Each of these occurrences is an opportunity to built trust with your H.
I was kind of panicking when I posted and before I talked to BH. I told him what I had done and why. Then I explained how I forgot to edit his name. He said that was fine and it was an honest mistake. He asked if I had read any of his posts and if my IC was going to read them to me or have me read them. I told him that I hadn't read any since he asked me not to and I wasn't sure what IC was going to do. He thought about it a few minutes and he said it was alright if she read them. Everything except ICR and he said I could read his posts in JFO if I wanted to but he asked I don't read ICR and if he posts in general it maybe him venting so read at my own risk.
Owl I again want to thank you. I'm trying to adjust my thinking and I don't want to hurt him anymore. It is just that I don't think that way. I'm not trying to hide or lie about what I did. I just didn't think to try to explain it to him.
confused girl, no I didn't say that to him. I was just saying what I felt here. I know there is no comparison between my dream and his reality. But I swear my dream was so detailed I "saw and heard" everything. Hours later it still makes me sick so I can't imagine what he is suffering. My stomach hurts and my hands are shaking no just thinking about it.
When I called him though I could tell he isn't doing well today. He sounded depressed so I asked him out to dinner. My parents are going to watch the kids and I'm taking him to his fav Italian place.