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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Argument pattern
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm posting again. sigh....

It's a game - I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

Now sure, I don't have to step into this but it doesn't make for good vibes between us and his victim stance usually lasts a couple days.

I'm so tired of it. I'm wondering what I can do differently if I can only change myself.

Jeez, the clarity that comes from writing it all down....


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4941 | Registered: Dec 2010
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

#2 sounds like lashing out to hurt you and put distance between you.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is more like a mental break than a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 1968 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He's doing all the things he thinks will shut you up. Myfwh did that during our false R. Because he didn't want to have to face what a dick he was being. And to keep me at a distance, so he could keep doing all of the nasty things he was doing.


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2256 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You really oughta read Games People Play! Or have you already done so?

You're changing and it's harder for him to hook you into a game and the Drama Triangle, so he's using more tricks to get you to play...so, yup, it's manipulation.

If you're still in MC, why not bring this pattern up in a session where you both can get the MC's support? (The MC should call your H on his minimizing, exaggerating, and general Victimhood and also show him it's safe for him to just address the issues. Well, that's how it should work.)


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10100 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yep, read it, can spot it and will bring it up at MC. Sigh, not til next week though.

the hurtful crazy shit he says play directly into my insecurities too. Nice. I simply replied, "I'm sure you do find other people attractive."

[This message edited by rachelc at 1:31 PM, May 19th (Monday)]


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4941 | Registered: Dec 2010
RidingHealingRd
♀ Member
Member # 33867
Default  Posted: 7:20 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

^^Yikes. I can only tell you how I would respond:

"Go f*&K those 5 yoga girls, A$$hole...Now, get the f*&K out"

What would he do if you sent him packing?

My WH would never say those things. He knows for certain that I would never tolerate it.

I often say, you get what you allow. Don't allow this, Rachel...you really do not deserve it. You certainly appear to be working very hard in R...at times it must feel like you are banging your head against a wall.



ME: 54 BS
HIM: 61 WH
Married: 28 years
D'Day: 10/29/10
in R 3.5 years and it's working but he is putting 200% into it (as he should) to make it right again.

The truth hurts, but I have never seen it cause the pain that lies do.


Posts: 2109 | Registered: Nov 2011
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, May 19th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up

This was a lot of the same cycle that HL and I participated in prior to my last DD and him truly getting it. If I heard this now, well see RHR's response lol.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4873 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Almost12Years
♀ Member
Member # 34861
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually commented to FWH the other day about how much less defensive he is when I bring up an issue I have - before and during the A, he would always pull the same "I don't know if I can ever meet your needs" and "I can't ever do anything right" crap. Sadly, it had been this way for quite awhile and I really didn't see how bad it was until after the A when everything came to light.

Not to say that things are perfect now, but I feel like we're more open and he's definitely not as defensive as he was before. I hope your WH can come around with time as well because it's not a healthy way to relate. :(


Me - BW (38). Him - FWS (35)
College sweethearts
M - 13 years; together 16
DD (9) and DS (7)
Blindsided by confession on 2/17/12
6+ mo. EA/2x PA

Putting the pieces back together, day by day. Hardest thing I've ever done.


Posts: 224 | Registered: Feb 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you're right it isn't. also, he doesn't even remember the "hot girls at yoga" comment of yesterday morning and we talked about it last night. He said I was hearing things. i just can't believe this. He said maybe he forgot because it was such an emotional conversation.


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4941 | Registered: Dec 2010
Remone
♂ New Member
Member # 40260
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to suggest the book "Hold Me Tight".

It speaks right to what you are struggling with and argument "patterns".


Posts: 37 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Canada
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That would be a great book for us to read together aloud. thank you!


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4941 | Registered: Dec 2010
AFrayedKnot
♂ Member
Member # 36622
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

#1- minimizing
#2- rationalizing
#3- blameshifting

Man, those are three of the first four chapters of the wayward training manual.


BS 39
fWS 36 (SurprisinglyOkay)
DD DS
A whole bunch of shit that got a lot worse before it got better.
"Knowing is half the battle"

Posts: 2587 | Registered: Aug 2012
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bullshit he didn't remember. If your spouse cannot remember hurtful things said to you, they need to do some hardcore work.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6449 | Registered: Jan 2011
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you're right it isn't. also, he doesn't even remember the "hot girls at yoga" comment of yesterday morning and we talked about it last night. He said I was hearing things. i just can't believe this. He said maybe he forgot because it was such an emotional conversation.

WOW!! This just took me back. I call BS too. This would be called gaslighting, designed to make you feel like you are the crazy one.

I hope you are detaching a bit at this point.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4873 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
ladies_first
♀ Member
Member # 24643
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rachel, kudos on seeing the Karpman Drama Triangle patterns in your M!

It's a game - I tell him a need or call him on something or even mention something associated with the A's and there is a pattern - first minimizing ("it wasn't a big deal"), then he says crazy shit ("should i tell you about the five hot girls I see at yoga?), then the victim mode - "I can never do anything right." IMO, this is a control mechanism to get me to shut up. Am I wrong about this?

It's not a game. And it's not about being right/wrong.

If it's a need -- and not residual A pain -- than can you preface your need without refering to his two affairs?

For instance, address honesty as a financial matter rather than A-based. If you need appreciation, mention that need as a spouse (which forces you to ask if you are appreciating him, too) not from your identity as a fBW/fWW.


"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." ~J. Campbell
"In the final analysis, it is your own attitude that will make or break you, not what has happened to you." ~D. Galloway

Posts: 2143 | Registered: Jun 2009
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, May 20th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

than can you preface your need without refering to his two affairs?

this is exactly what I said last night. I said this is not about your affairs - he yelled bullshit - I said this is about me needing to know if I'm safe in this relationship. And it wasn't about the AP's, it was about honesty.


his Dday: 2/10
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

Me: I didn't sign up for this.
Him: you're already in this. All you can do is resign...


Posts: 4941 | Registered: Dec 2010
Topic Posts: 16

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