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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Codependent cycles and partners.
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 2:30 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Do you ever feel like your Mom failed your Dad?"


A question put to me by my wife as we discussed their divorce.

I had not thought of it like this before....but, yes, I do think my Mom failed my Dad (and Dad failed Mom).

Instead of being open and honest within their relationship they would hold back and expect the other to just know what to do. Codependent cycles commenced! One would take the other would give, and vice versa. Combine that with both of THEIR tendencies to reach for false intimacies (Mom writing one romance story after another, Dad using porn) and the fruit that was produced was a given. Their M ended after my Dad chose adultery.


Now....if just one of them would have said "Enough! This is not working for me. I will change." it would have at least ushered in the opportunity for the other to say "yes I love you and will support you...love you as you change.".....opportunities would have appeared that were previously hidden. On the flip side the other COULD have responded to the others change with a "no I don't love you and we will divorce because I can't support you in your change and will not love you if you do change." Instead, they D....with very little work or expression taking place.

NOTE: I was 11-12 when this happened. My knowledge of what actually happened in their M is limited....mostly from direct questions to each of them20=30 years post-D. But by all indications, radical honesty was NOT an option for them. Their M was "too far gone, too much damage to repair". This, by the way, was the exact same line my brother told me when he and his wife decided to D. See how cycles repeat themselves?


So here we are......mrs blakesteele not getting all she needs or desires, blakesteele not getting all I need or desire. Both hurting from intentional wronging and unintenional wounding by the other. Yet, we are working on ourselves and our M.

Why?

The million dollar question....with lots of answers.

But to tie the answer to this specific post on this thread......we are choosing to love each other. Love as a CHOICE. It is from this choice that we are offering the opportunity to the other to attempt to meet the others needs and desires.

Our pre-A M had lots of FOO influences.....but this idea, this choice is absolutely outside of the "normal formula" for our FOO.

Our therapist said we are a poster couple for what therapy can do!

We challenge that and say "We sure don't feel comfortable with that praise".

Her response?

"Well thats because it is so new to you both. Trust me, you are changing and the fruits will be good and healthy. Your girls are blessed beyond belief by your willingness to do what you have done and continue to choose to do."


I pray our M and family are restored. I believe God hates D and cherishes family. I have also been sufficiently humbled so as to NOT profess to know all the answers.....faith has a role in R.

22 months out and I am getting peeks of good things on the horizon.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 2:43 PM, May 27th (Tuesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Mama3030
♀ New Member
Member # 42553
Default  Posted: 7:00 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are so helpful and I have the book on my night stand. You encouraged me to see a counselor and I'm seeing one this week.


It took me a long, LONG time to realize how CoD I was on my H. I knew I was financially dependent on him, as a stay-at-home wife and mother. But I didn't realize how emotionally dependent on him I was.

For me it is hard to separate what is healthy and unhealthy, and that is why I need this book Thank you so much!


WH 42
BS (me) 33
3 kids- 6. 4, infant

Together 13 years, married for 8

DDAY 2/21/14


Posts: 38 | Registered: Feb 2014
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're welcome Mama3030. It does my heart good to see you so early on finding your way to healthy choices!

It bodes well for you personally.

Keep posting!

God is with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
peoplepleaser
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, May 27th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Backtracking a bit, but that radical honesty resonated with me. I think that's the issue. It's not happening. I need to be able to share my feelings based on where I am and what is. It's not an indication of present failure, but of recovering from nauseating past failure. WS is just not there. Present feelings about her past failure are interpreted as present failures. On some level that may be true, but only after I don't get the reassurance or compassion or validation I need. They exist initially because if the consequences of past failure that cannot be changed. Once she gets this I think we will be in a better position to heal...both of us. I continue to believe that her actions, while disgusting and disrespectful to me as an unsuspecting spouse, were traumatizing to both of us. Until she's on it with me, instead of outside attempting to coach me through, we will not be in a position to heal together in the rejationship.


WS: 38--2 EAs
BS: 38--me, faithful
DS: 5
8 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 512 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To back track a bit as well this was/is so true with me:

The more CoD I became, just happened to coincide with the more P/A my husband became….I was using my precious energy to work on improving his life and career and tip-toe around his moods (which was futile) while not giving much thought to what I wanted anymore. If there was a problem, I would fix it. If he was bothered by something, I'd have the solution….and then I'd be frustrated when he would sit back and complain over and over again about the same thing, yet do nothing to correct it.

If he was happy, that was good enough for me. If he was successful, I was proud of him and shared in that success (behind the scenes of course) and that was all that mattered. It meant life would be easier and I'd help him achieve his goals. I wanted his life to be the best it could be. What wrong with that, right?

Well, I didn't know what I wanted anymore, and worse yet it didn't really matter to me. The life was being sucked out of me, but I didn't see it and if I did I sure didn't know why. I didn't even look at the fact that I was unhappy and frustrated and that living with him had become just so damn difficult. Trying to work around his P/A moods/behavior, instead of looking in the mirror at myself to realize I was feeding the monster plus depriving myself.

What I would add to this is that the complete unbalance happens when the CoDep person grows and matures BECAUSE they learn to handle all problems or issues, or let me just say they just handle things right or wrong. Where the P/A partner actually gets stuck in their lack of maturity so really buckles down in STAYING a P/A. The battles ensue and they get furious with their BS but now feel they need a new source to make them feel good since the BS cannot anymore. It has become far to unbalanced.

Rinse wash repeat as we say on here all the time.

I will also say that the BS can figure out with IC and books and learning because in essance they have always been a problem solver so they will learn. If acknowleged. The WS who is a P/A is a much harder trickier issue to take care of because of the dynamic of them not knowing how to solve a problem.


Posts: 5613 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
brokensmile322
♀ Member
Member # 35758
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


The WS who is a P/A is a much harder trickier issue to take care of because of the dynamic of them not knowing how to solve a problem.

Yes. And my WH being conflict avoidant as well, he would rather push it aside and move on, then look deep at himself. It causes him anxiety.


Me BS 42 Him WS 44
OW Coworker DDay April 7, 2012
EA on a slippery slope...

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Viktor Frankl

"When you are happy, you can forgive a great deal."


Posts: 1415 | Registered: Jun 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will also say that the BS can figure out with IC and books and learning because in essance they have always been a problem solver so they will learn. If acknowleged. The WS who is a P/A is a much harder trickier issue to take care of because of the dynamic of them not knowing how to solve a problem.


Interestingly enough...our first therapist said almost this exact paragraph to me once.

Passive aggressive....interesting tie in here too.

I have learned that some people will say they will do something and then...."forget". Some of this is a persons natural forgetfullness but some has a tie into passive aggressiveness. Kind of a I'll do for you when I am ready to....but is not that sinister. It is somewhat influenced from a subconcious need to remain independent....a fear of real intimacy. Mix in some resentment...either for the spouse directly or from the FOO or other life experiences, a fear of conflict and you have all the ingredients to start a P/A cycle.

My wife has a pattern of doing this. I see it aggravate her (she gets upset with herself when she forgets...she is aware of her possible P/A nature), I don't think it is wholly intentional....but their is a link here to our destructive wash, rinse, repeat cycle of our past. (I sometimes wonder if the love-buster "sarcasm" is a form of P/A...something I have used before. I am working hard on leaving that tool on the shelf as I see it not nearly as funny as I once did.)

The therapist that started leading me into this nuance of P/A is no longer our therapist.....so I'm not sure where she was going to go with this.

I DO know that radical honesty will also break this pattern. If my wife feels like being independent....I trust she will say "no" to a request from me. If I feel sarcasm "warranted" I reach for what the heart of that sarcastic comment would be and find healthy ways to express it. KWIM?


To be sure I am talking about very small tasks/promises.....bringing me an iced tea from McD's, paying a utility bill, reading and responding to an email from me. The big ticket items generally are addressed....its the small things where P/A can and usually do show up. A theory on this is that P/A people are afraid of conflict. Ignoring, or letting promises go unfullfilled, on small things stands little chance of real conflict. After all, its just an iced tea from McD's. Big things however, when those promises are not followed through on, cause large conflicts.....a P/A worst nightmare. Facing conflict head on! They will do big things that they don't want to in an effort to avoid conflict, but then harbor resentment that leads to those small promises being "forgot" more and more.


Note: It is nice to be working on real problems in my M. 22 months out here. The A dominated my focus for a long time. I am now starting to really understand that adultery was a symptom, not the problem within our M. I pray my wife continues to find, accept and grow through her destructive patterns. I pray the same for me, and for all on SI.

This post has been good for that. I am comforted by ya'lls willingness to share and challenge what I am sharing.

God is with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:19 AM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder if their is a sickness in me......


The more I read real-life case studies and see "blakesteele" in others....the more I want to read and see how it all ties together.

Many of these treks involve pretty distasteful parts of me.....parts that I was hiding from myself.

These treks start like this.

Thank God I am not like THAT!

.....peek again......

Ok, maybe I am kinda like that.

....look....

Crap.....I am more like that then I thought....but its not that bad...right?


STARE


HOLY CRAP.....how could I have been so blind. Yep, that is a real part of me......wow.


SIT. Pray. Deep breath.


Okay, so that was how I operated. Here is what I told myself I was doing, here is what I was really doing. How can I do what I THOUGHT I was doing?


....and the real work starts.


Takes me months to complete that process.

Once I do it is very liberating!!!!

It also appears I am a "money pit"! I finish one project...and another instantly appears.

It is said the closer you grow towards God, the more you will see within yourself that requires renovation. I am living that reality.


I am grateful I have learned the difference between being condemned and being convicted. One is continued bondage, the other allows for growth and healing (change).

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
cantaccept
♀ Member
Member # 37451
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning Blake,

Codependent??? absolutely, no doubt about it, 100%, I was. I didn't even exist except for to serve.

Something you said in one of the earlier posts on this thread, that one can change but it takes both to create a healthy relationship.

After dday #1, I began to change, didn't really know what I was changing but knew that I needed to find me, value me, be me.

I changed, he did not, he was actually intimidated by the changes in me. I think it actually played a role in his choosing to have a second affair. He wanted me to be the same, compliant, easy going, rug sweeping. I could not, no more, once you see you cannot unsee. He resorted to his old coping mechanisms, numbing.

He just started posting. He is becoming introspective. He says he wants to change. We will see what these changes mean.

I just finished "Codependent NO More". Helped to clarify a lot and also to help me not feel guilty for protecting myself.

Foo issues for sure.

I have missed reading your posts. I had to stay away mostly, it was too painful.

Good to read you again.

Can


Life is change. Growth is optional. Choose wisely.

I would now like to be known as Can!

dday October 21,2012
dday December 20, 2013
wh boots5050
attempted R, it was all a lie

divorcing


Posts: 1268 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Connecticut
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I changed, he did not, he was actually intimidated by the changes in me. I think it actually played a role in his choosing to have a second affair. He wanted me to be the same, compliant, easy going, rug sweeping. I could not, no more, once you see you cannot unsee. He resorted to his old coping mechanisms, numbing.


I witnessed this similar occurrence in my marriage.

The whole can't unsee what you have seen idea? Totally get that. And I am referring to internal viewing of myself and my actions for what they really are. Didn't like what I saw....the pain of staying the same was too much....so I decided to change. And change I have!

First 2 months I tried and tried to NOT see what I was seeing......didn't want to see that my wife was actively choosing adultery over her M to me, didn't want to see the destruction of our M and family, didn't want to see that I had any role in this destruction.....I soooo wanted to look away. And for two months after DD, I did look away.

Just delayed healing.

Sadly, the light of truth is too much for some to bear. They retreat back into the darkness as it is more comfortable and easier. Comfortable and easy....isn't that a core characteristic of adultery....of all sin really?

Sorry my posts have been too painful....glad to see you post on here.

I also dig your ending nickname.....shows forward progress and growth.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has taken me a couple of days to fully read this whole string because it made me uncomfortable and thoughtful. Is there such thing as a co-dependent fog?

I haven't read Co-dependent No More yet, but have ordered it. I have a few thoughts that may seem naïve, but hey, I just opened this door so tell me what you all think:

I don't think I am naturally co-d but have been conditioned and manipulated into it (and allowed it). It's like his sickness/damage leaves a hole in him that a co-d fits perfectly. When I stopped to some extent fitting that hole he found an AP that would. I became that oh so independent person in a marriage with no intimacy.

I still see that I lost myself by using all of my energy taking care of our life. But I think it is my life too that I am caring for. Maybe it's not. Yikes. This is hard.


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 277 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Where the P/A partner actually gets stuck in their lack of maturity so really buckles down in STAYING a P/A. The battles ensue and they get furious with their BS but now feel they need a new source to make them feel good since the BS cannot anymore. It has become far to unbalanced.

I can see that. It gets worse before it gets better. As I mentioned earlier, I got sick and was dealing with a chronic illness. With that illness I was more self-absorbed in the beginning. Survival was a priority and I didn't have the time/effort/energy to focus solely on my husband as he wanted. Plus, I needed him and at first he liked that, but after a while he became more scared and resentful.

Eventually came personal emotional growth for me. I fought it actually, but when something like that happens, it changes a person. It changes priorities and outlooks. I was different. That also scared my husband on many levels. He became more self-absorbed and P/A and needed to find a new source because I wasn't as willing to play the same old role. Although I was being a CoD/enabler, I just wasn't being enough of one in his mind I suppose.

When the trauma of dday hit, it felt like I lost all the positive ground I'd made and it was slow to get it back.

P/A is a whole other issue. I've realized my father is very P/A, I can see it now and he definitely pushes my buttons and sucks me into to it. I didn't think my husband and father were anything alike. I was wrong. The older my husband got the more P/A and similar to my father he became. My husband has worked really hard on his P/A behavior and I don't see it from him anymore.

It's hard for my husband to be around his mother now because he sees the similarities/manipulation tactics AP used and it's repulsive to him. And if I see any similarities in myself to that I shudder. Hard for me to be around my father too because I see the similarities to how my husband used to act and I have no patience for that.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
sadone29
♀ Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm definitely a classic codependent. Since DD, I've come to the realization that I am myself an alcoholic. Because I distanced myself from my old addict life, and basically isolated myself from the outside world (so I could avoid alcohol whenever possible), I denied I had problems.
So in my brokenness, I found another broken person to take care of and be taken care of. He didn't question my anxiety, didn't push me to deal with my own sickness, and in return, I allowed him to distance himself from me and the kids. I didn't know that it was because he had his own hidden addiction. But, I let him carry on without questioning him. I wasn't self aware enough to really face that things weren't right.

I'm not sure if I belong in R again. We're actually doing well, but we are giving each other space to heal ourselves. I know I love him. And I see the changes in him, and it makes me happy for him. It's been enough for now. I'm tired of trying to run to the finish line.

I'm reading a good book right now called The Spirituality of Imperfection. I see now how I've denied my own humanity. That I tried to control things that are out of my control. It's time to allow myself to be imperfect. It's time to forgive.


"I move slow and steady, but I feel like a waterfall."

Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2013
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Seenow.

Sorry this post is making you uncomfortable....if it helps, seeing parts of myself (the parts that made this post possible) was very uncomfortable too! What man wants to think he could choose as I have chosen?

But that uncomfortablness is necessary to instigate change. Pain of same has to be greater then the pain of change for change to occur.

We can only change ourselves, we can't change others. (God has a role in our change, but we have to choose to change first).

Couple of thoughts to your post...

When I stopped to some extent fitting that hole he found an AP that would.

Caution: That smells a little like you taking some responsibility for his choices. I also believe the flip side of this occurs. When a person decides they don't want to do what they have done in the past (be a taker or a giver) they reach for something else. So even if you didn't change.....your husband could still opt to seek out adultery. You could not love him more, have more sex, give him more space...nothing you could have done would have prevented him from choosing adultery. Whatever his "why" is was within him long before he met you.

I became that oh so independent person in a marriage with no intimacy.

And this is the counter-side of co-dependent....a spouse who is largely removed and distant.


Reminder.....these roles do indeed move back and forth. You can't be codependent and independent at the same time....it is one or the other.

Interdependence is something that exists within both spouses at the same time....in a healthy relationship. See the "square" post on this thread to better visualize how various cycles operate.


Independent----codependent. Pretty common path back and forth in both my wife and I.

Then we would get tired of that and reach for false intimacy...both used porn, wife read fantasy novels, she chose adultery, I put a priority on my career, kids were going to be the next intimacy blocker for us.......the cycle was going to continue.

Until we felt really uncomfortable. For us....it took my wife choosing adultery for the pain to be traumatic enough for us to say.....
ENOUGH!!!!!


Hope this helps.

Keep posting. This is tough crap.....way too much for any one person to handle. God understands this...fellowship is needed. Reaching outside oneself is needed. It is a fool that thinks the same twisted minds that created our sitch are the same ones that will get us out....it won't happen without reaching out to others, finding new inputs to change the outputs.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Althea
♀ Member
Member # 37765
Default  Posted: 9:03 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They will do big things that they don't want to in an effort to avoid conflict, but then harbor resentment that leads to those small promises being "forgot" more and more.
ding ding ding ding.

At our worst, it became unacceptable for me to ask ANYTHING of WH. It was never communicated, but if I ever dared to suggest he might try to come home early to spend time as a family (by early I mean 5:30 rather than 7pm), he would say he'd try and then I could 100% count on him coming home LATER than usual that night. I think of it now and it disgusts me.

Blake, I too feel like I have found a bottomless pit of self work to do. Be forgiving of yourself, and the child who was wounded. Life is a journey. If you are open without self judgement or shame, the journey is easier. I try to live by this, and it truly helps.


Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 447 | Registered: Dec 2012
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm reading a good book right now called The Spirituality of Imperfection. I see now how I've denied my own humanity. That I tried to control things that are out of my control. It's time to allow myself to be imperfect. It's time to forgive.

Thanks Sadone29.


My own spiritual growth (and thirst for it) has shown light on my own desire to control and be perfect....two things I am examining closely next.....thanks for the book reference.

I also liked how you explained how you and your husband fit together....my wife and I fit together too.

I think you belong in R.....that distance and space you speak of is healthy as long as neither of you are reaching for false intimacy to fill a void that God designed you each to fill within each other.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sadone29
♀ Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks blakesteele.

It's difficult to know what is healthy, since I've never experienced it.
H is going through a tough phase in his recovery at the moment. I feel for him, but I also don't feel like I have to help him or control his pain in any way. Realizing that that may actually be the healthy way is really nice. I don't have to join him on his rollercoaster, and its freeing. I have my own rollercoaster to deal with!


"I move slow and steady, but I feel like a waterfall."

Posts: 626 | Registered: Mar 2013
peoplepleaser
♀ Member
Member # 41535
Default  Posted: 9:51 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The discussion on control and P/A is interesting.

About control, I was a but confused. Being vey open and overt, I come across as controlling, but as my WS pointed out the other night I simply like things to be my way.

Control for the co-d seems to lie behind the scenes. For WS it is more of control over emotions and feeling unsafe or helpless when results aren't immediate, when help is not needed or when needs are requested rather than allowing the meeting of anticipated and unspoken needs to be fulfilling enough. Both EAs occurred during times she felt ineffective. The first was when I was very depressed after miscarriages and beng harassed at work. I remember her eventually telling me to suck it up and that I was sucking the breath out of her life. That I was her fun and I took that from her. The second time I had been focusing on meeting my own needs and improving my self esteem by working out, eating healthy and becoming more self aware. During that time she complained that I did what I wanted regardless of family time, however I was doing my workouts at 5 am when it didn't interfere. Looking back here I see her saying, you don't need me.

I hadn't considered her "forgetting" or other behaviors as P/A before, but adding that lens is offering a new perspective. Can see how she forgets things important to me that are needs I've expressed. It seems to imply that I should have been happy with what she gave me that I never asked for. It also illuminates the accusations of me being selfish. I can see how she thought that, as she was working so hard to anticipate what I wanted while sacrificing her wants. How dare I ask for (in her mind) more. From my perspective, I didn't ask much. I had no idea what she was sacrificing because she wasn't talking. From her perspective I should have been paying attention to that. Ugh. It's a mess.

So the dynamic in R is very complicated. Lots on here discuss the BS as co-d. It seems an easier way to go about R, though it's tough no matter what. In my relationship I have a co-d WS who is still uncovering the grand scheme of how the behaviors influenced her perspective or way if "knowing" me. It wasn't an accurate representation of who I am. While my behaviors remain the same, the intent applied to them by her are horrible skewed.

So here I am, damaged and heartbroken and needing some openness, genuineness, humility, remorse and compassion. I need it from a WS who is burnt from attempts to provide compassion to a great fault. A WS who has never been open and genuine. One who avoids conflict at a great cost to herself. Someone who is practicing sharing her needs, thoughts and emotions...at times when I am feeling least capable of responding well to them (usually in response to my expression of feelings without showing remorse, understanding, or compassion first). The resentment is still in her. It's interfering with us healing together from the EAs. It's feeding a continuation of her skewed idea of my intentions. I don't know how to work on the relationship while I still can't trust. I don't know how to build trust in the face of her resentment. I can't heal IN the relationship (I can do it by myself in spite of the relationship) without remorse, compassion and reassurance. So I'm not sure what to do with all that.

[This message edited by peoplepleaser at 9:57 AM, May 28th (Wednesday)]


WS: 38--2 EAs
BS: 38--me, faithful
DS: 5
8 year relationship in R.
DDay #1: September 6, 2013 EA for 5 weeks August 2013.
DDay #2: January 2, 2014 EA for 6 weeks summer 2011.
"I am still learning." -Michelangelo

Posts: 512 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Midwest
seenow
♀ Member
Member # 40720
Default  Posted: 11:32 AM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you blakesteele!!!!!


ME: BS mid 40's
Him: WH mid 40's
DDay 5/13 5 year LTA, ONS
together 25 yrs
1 kiddo

Posts: 277 | Registered: Sep 2013 | From: mountain west
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Althea))) for this....

Be forgiving of yourself, and the child who was wounded. Life is a journey. If you are open without self judgement or shame, the journey is easier. I try to live by this, and it truly helps.

...a gentle reminder to me, and to the others reading this post.

I loose sight of this at times....."being still" and resting is a choice, an action even though it is not ACTIVE.

Several therapists have reminded me of this as well.

It is valuable, healthy advice.

Thanks.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 3411 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Topic Posts: 46
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