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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Codependent cycles and partners.
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's difficult to know what is healthy, since I've never experienced it.

Totally agree. Thus, our marriage was one of default. We knew what we didn't want...but what did we want? How do we get there? What does it look like when we do?

That is what we are learning now. Reading, prayer, turning towards each other in radical honest ways, and therapy are helping our vision become clearer.

We are hardly alone in our FOO. Look how many people come from D'ed homes, broken homes of all sorts.

When I asked our pastor to put me in contact with any man who had survived adultery in his marriage....he could not. We are a throw away society. Pastor could put me in contact with a guy who survived D after his wife chose adultery....


Reading helps me. Biblical principles are my point of reference now. For most of my life I looked around me....used others as my gauge of "healthy".

Most every man I know used porn.

I was more involved with my family and children then a lot of my male friends...even watched some of their kids so our wives could have a girls night out.

We were doing sooooo much better than our parents....hardly fought (her FOO) I didn' cheat on my wife (my FOO), we were debt free.(both FOO).


So we were healthy....right?

sigh.

This WAS my measuring stick.

Fear influenced so much of our daily lives.


Please keep in mind folks.....I think it is the extreme couple that take this codependent cycle to into the sinister, manipulative level. I really believe most do this out of ignorance. A lack of knowledge, not a sinful nature. KWIM?

Good post....like the varied posts.

God is with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((peoplepleaser)))

I am understanding your struggle more and more...and that process is helping me understand my struggle. Thank you for sharing openly.

I remember her eventually telling me to suck it up and that I was sucking the breath out of her life. That I was her fun and I took that from her.

I have been struggling with a relationship with my Dad for years...really, since he abandoned me at age 12. My wife got tired of hearing my struggles and had her own "suck it up" talk with me. I can see how this has a tie to resentment....me openly struggling with her, meanwhile she having to hold her own struggles in. Not saying I forced her to hold them in, but she held her struggles close to her chest....a factor of COA? Perhaps. Still listening to what she is willing to share, what she has uncovered about herself. But codependent roles switched around in our M for sure.


I hadn't considered her "forgetting" or other behaviors as P/A before, but adding that lens is offering a new perspective. Can see how she forgets things important to me that are needs I've expressed. It seems to imply that I should have been happy with what she gave me that I never asked for. It also illuminates the accusations of me being selfish. I can see how she thought that, as she was working so hard to anticipate what I wanted while sacrificing her wants. How dare I ask for (in her mind) more. From my perspective, I didn't ask much. I had no idea what she was sacrificing because she wasn't talking. From her perspective I should have been paying attention to that. Ugh. It's a mess.

I can also see how my more open (still not radically honest though) style generated the above dynamic in our M too. Her feeling "blakesteele gets all he wants, while I have to settle for so little." meanwhile, I am completely in the dark because her persona was one of "complete control, I am stable, I need nothing, I need no one.". For my wife, reaching out and expressing a need was a serious weakness. She witnessed her Mom do this to her alcoholic Dad time and again...and get hurt by it. They had their own, even more seriously codependent thing going on.

And, from my perspective, it seemed like I asked for very little too.

NOTE: I was more open but not radically honest. Key key point. I did things for my wife...things that appeared totally supportive and loving. And, like so much of this, there are components of those noble traits to this interaction. But I NOW see that I would "do for" my wife so I would not be in a position for my wife to choose to NOT need me. My abandonment fears were/are huge. I would deny I even wanted my wife to join us at the pool after work....my persona said to my wife "Look, I am cool...you just stay home and do what you want...I'll take the girls to the pool". Just like me above, my wife had no idea what I was really desiring and needing. How could she, I was fooling and denying my own self!


So the dynamic in R is very complicated. Lots on here discuss the BS as co-d. It seems an easier way to go about R, though it's tough no matter what. In my relationship I have a co-d WS who is still uncovering the grand scheme of how the behaviors influenced her perspective or way if "knowing" me. It wasn't an accurate representation of who I am. While my behaviors remain the same, the intent applied to them by her are horrible skewed.


Similar actions now...but with very different motivations behind them. That is what I am observing. I NOW recognize my need to connect and be with my wife, but I also choose to love her by taking care of our girls for a bit while she has her alone time. The fact that I recognize I even have that need to be with my wife as a husband and lover (not just a provider and problem solver) is HUGE to me. The next big step was to express that need to her WITHOUT any demands, sarcasm or P/A bull shit associated with it.

Point is.....same actions take on a whole new meaning when the motivations under them move from false and controlling to true and freeing$.

I am curious....do you think your roles in the codependent cycle ever moved around? Early on my wife very much lost herself to me and my mood. Later, the roles were switched. I almost think it happened within the same week sometimes too. Kinda hard to remember our past with any clarity now though..... Just curious if you think you were always the taker and she the giver?


So here I am, damaged and heartbroken and needing some openness, genuineness, humility, remorse and compassion. I need it from a WS who is burnt from attempts to provide compassion to a great fault. A WS who has never been open and genuine. One who avoids conflict at a great cost to herself. Someone who is practicing sharing her needs, thoughts and emotions...at times when I am feeling least capable of responding well to them (usually in response to my expression of feelings without showing remorse, understanding, or compassion first). The resentment is still in her. It's interfering with us healing together from the EAs. It's feeding a continuation of her skewed idea of my intentions. I don't know how to work on the relationship while I still can't trust. I don't know how to build trust in the face of her resentment. I can't heal IN the relationship (I can do it by myself in spite of the relationship) without remorse, compassion and reassurance. So I'm not sure what to do with all that.


This paragraph.....it is pain ridden.

I feel it. I live it. The unknowing of what to do, the questioning of every little motivation before choosing a given action...even down to what am I REALLY trying to do by bringing a candy bar home to my wife today? Is it healthy thinking of you, or is it controlling in some way????!!!

Have found a good, but expensive, therapist that is helping me understand how to more quickly move through the analysis part of change....I am choosing healthy actions more easily.

Don't get stuck in the past. Both of you have made unhealthy choices...you have wronged and wounded each other. Don't be condemned by those choices....be convicted by them. Conviction allows for healing and growth.

Realize your role in destructive cycles...and then make better choices.

"We do the best we can. Then we learn better, and so can choose to do better." Maya Angelou

This post is largely about "us" collectively learning and choosing to do better.

It is painful....but it is healthy.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
southsidecali
♀ Member
Member # 22752
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, May 28th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh man, this post really hit me hard.

These posts narrate our relationship down to the wire -swapping a few HIMs for HERS or vice versa.

My poor kids don't stand a chance unless we heal all that hurt.


Posts: 859 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: CA
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My poor kids don't stand a chance unless we heal all that hurt.

Keep the faith southsidecali.....

Our therapist said in a receive my session......."your girls are so blessed because of the work you both are doing".

We, like you guys, have been convicted. Painful as it is we see our patterns for what they honestly have been.

It's tiring too....you think you have it all figured out, then you stumble and have to catch yourself. It's hardly a smooth easy trek is it?

Choices are freeing and scary at the same time.

It requires faith and a belief in the unknown to change sometimes.

Cycle is breaking in our family. You can too.

God is with us all.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
sadone29
♀ Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks blakesteele!

And southsidecali, cycles can be broken! We're working hard to do it with our family. It's really difficult. My first instinct is to keep secrets from the kids to protect them. We're also admitting to them when we make mistakes. If we never admit we're wrong, they're going to grow up thinking that we're superhuman and they're somehow really flawed in comparison.
It's been a challenge especially with our older child. She has trouble talking and opening up. She's filled with lots of anger. But we keep giving her love and more attention. She's slowly starting to talk to us about what's going on inside her head.
I'm excited that we are challenging ourselves to move beyond our habits.


DDay Feb. 28, 2013
"I am pretty sure enforcing the boundary is the most important part of the boundary"- Jerry Seinfeld
Can't wait to D, but stuck financially until I find a way out of this SAHM position I'm in.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2013
blakesteele
♂ Member
Member # 38044
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your welcome Sadone29. Enjoy visiting with you.

Admitting you make mistakes to your children is huge!

The other night my wife and I were working out in the living room....our two daughters were picking at each other. Nothing serious, typical 7 and 10 year old interactions....I kinda saw them out of the corner of my eye. Mostly I was working out and paying attention to the video.

All of a sudden I notice our youngest getting "slammed" to the ground hard. I jumped up and ran to my oldest daughter and yelled at her. It was too strong of a reaction for the sitch. My wife yelled my name. I caught myself.

Turned out our youngest was not "slammed" so much as she lost her balance and fell fast.


Our oldest also has a hard time expressing herself. Just the raising of my voice can cause her serious pain. I KNOW this. I felt about 6 inches tall immediately following my reaction to this sitch.

I went to my oldest daughter, apologized, explained I was wrong and my reaction was not warranted. I also told her I knew she was scared and that it was okay. I understood.

Its a start.


There have been other healthy exchanges too. She has been angry with me. She has trouble with anger. Not controlling it so much as even feeling and dealing with it. KWIM?

She has told me before "Dad, I am angry with you. But I don't want to be!"

It breaks my heart to see her wrestle with life as she does. That first year after my DD I did the best I could, so did my wife, but it affected our girls. This is a huge trial. Good is coming of it, I see it now. Even the pain it has caused our girls CAN be used to grow and mature them in ways we failed to do as children.

And this is the beauty of breaking long standing cycles.....it blesses our children.

We will still screw them up to some extent. But we have a chance to do better....and we are doing better.

As humans, we are broken. That is our nature. But we are in charge of sheparding them. And through radical honesty and intentional actions we are learning to do a better and better job of it.

I gotta believe the healthier influences my wife and I are to them, the healthier choices they will make....which will result in healthier harvests.

Funny how I fought so hard to hold onto an orchard of rotting, sour fruit upon my DD......

As time passes (approaching the 2 year mark) it is easier and easier to see our old cycles as they were and to accept that our distaste for them will prohibit us from returning to them.

We are learning better and are choosing better.

Peace.


ME: 42 BH, I don't PM female members
SHE: 38 EA
Married: 15 years
Together: 17 years
D/Day 9-10-12
NC: 10-25-12
NC: Broken early November 2012, OM not respond
2 girls; 7 and 10
Fear is payments on debts you have not

Posts: 4041 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Central Missouri
Topic Posts: 46
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3

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