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User Topic: The "Why." Waywards especially welcome!
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartbroken.

Thats an amazing post. Thank you for that.

You have found a level of clarity that is astounding. Thank you thank you thank you.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that to often people point to FOO issues as to the *why* (IOW a excuse).

The truth is though that there are many many many BSs even here on SI that suffered beyond horrible childhood abuse and all kind of FOO issues. And we didnt cheat.

FOO is a strong influence on everyone. For some it is a example to follow. For others its a example of what NOT to do.

M problems? I was in the same marriage as WW. I was miserable just as she was. The difference was that to try and fix those problems I turned TOWARD her (and was rebuffed). while instead she turned away to OM.

All of this again points to HOW being the key question in my mind.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, I agree with Razor, heartbroken great post!

The "great" thing about being a selfish asshole is that you can change. I had a big lightbulb moment a short time after d-day that my FWH was a selfish asshole (before I found SI). I called our MC. I was, literally, hysterical crying. Our MC was very concerned, I couldn't get the words out. I finally was able to explain that FWH was a selfish asshole and had been for almost the entire time I knew him. I thought our marriage was over! I couldn't continue to live with a selfish asshole. MC assured me, that yes FWH was a selfish asshole, but that he wasn't NPD, in her opinion. She saw remorse and that he was willing to change. She believed he could. He did.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:56 PM, May 29th (Thursday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
Bumbling
♂ New Member
Member # 38920
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why... There are a bunch of big reasons I think we all have in common that folks are reluctant to acknowledge.
1. Most people do need some level of external validation. Those who don't, don't need people, and are content writing self absorbed manifestos.
2. Honest and open communication is hard. We get very little training in it, and it's made harder when we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Avoiding the little hurts and confrontations tends to build up into catastrophic ones.
3. Humans, through the vast majority of our thousands of years of evolution have not been monogamous over the decades we're expected to be now. We're hard wired to be attracted to other people and to spread our genes.
4. Sex is really damn important. It's not simply about hormonal release, it's about connection, acceptance and identity. We're hard wired to need it. You can only starve a good dog for so long before he'll die, run away or steal some food. The dominant argument I see on this site about that analogy is that the dog wasn't "good." Sometimes that's the truth of it. A lot of times that's not the whole story.

Posts: 33 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the urge to not be monogamous affects many people. However, not all of them cheat. Only the WS cheats.

Same with difficulty in communicating. My XH is possibly the least introspective man on the planet and a terrible communicator. He really is, bless his heart. Yet, he didn't cheat.

I stand by it coming down to personal choice.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

We remarried in 2014.


Posts: 2316 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

4. Sex is really damn important. It's not simply about hormonal release, it's about connection, acceptance and identity. We're hard wired to need it. You can only starve a good dog for so long before he'll die, run away or steal some food. The dominant argument I see on this site about that analogy is that the dog wasn't "good." Sometimes that's the truth of it. A lot of times that's not the whole story.
My argument would be that we aren't dogs, Bumbling. We are humans. I do believe sex is a very important part of a marriage. However, if you aren't getting it from your spouse, there are other options besides adultery. Insist on talking, MC and if the spouse is unwilling to work on it, get a divorce. No or little sex is an excuse, not a "why".


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 9952 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

because in the end one either does the right thing or the wrong thing. I chose to do the wrong thing

so simple yet oh so true. thank you heartbroken!


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5494 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The dominant argument I see on this site about that analogy is that the dog wasn't "good."

The dog likely has deeply rooted FOO issues and is completely ignorant of its brokenness. Years of IC are likely in order to figure this shit out.

Or, the dog can claim it's a selfish asshole.

ETA: tongue-in-cheek humor

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 4:44 PM, May 30th (Friday)]


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 450 | Registered: Nov 2010
sinsof thefather
♀ Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can only starve a good dog for so long before he'll die, run away or steal some food. The dominant argument I see on this site about that analogy is that the dog wasn't "good."
Human beings lacking a healthy sex life within their marriages have many more options to solve their problems than a starving dog has.


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
whattheh
♀ Member
Member # 40032
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fWH has given me different whys as time has passed and he gained more perspective.

I also agree the focus also needs to be on the how could they let themselves do this? And this needs to be addressed and worked on so a repeat betrayal does not occur.

I'm a strong believer that the adulterer is entirely responsible for their actions and that the betrayed faithful spouse and marriage had nothing to do with it. To buy into ideas that the betrayer was ignored or didn't get enough sex, etc is just a way to help them to rationalize their behavior. That does not bode well for a healthy future M.


BW- mid 50's (me)
fWH-late 50's
M 33 T 35
DD-Early 2013 PA 2010
In R but I have PTSD...

Posts: 587 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
Bumbling
♂ New Member
Member # 38920
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for my own reasons...
As a preamble, I fucked up and hurt my wife intensely. It was a horrible thing to do, I'm sorry I hurt her so very much, I've seen the error of my ways and it's not something I will ever do again. Asking forgiveness may be optimistic, but I sincerely hope that she'll be able to look past my flaws and mistakes to find a way to love me again. I'm not trying to minimize my culpability or shirk ownership for my screw ups here, only to explain how and why it happened.

I have a number of factors that made it more likely. I was too timid in explaining what I really needed. I tried to explain what was going on, and I got us to attend a largely unhelpful MC a couple years before the affairs. I knew it didn't really fix things at the time but wasn't assertive enough to put my foot down and insist we keep searching for help. I left that experience feeling blamed for the problems in the relationship and encouraged to just deal with it. Around the time of my first affair (it was a brief one) we were seeing another, better therapist. He honestly did improve our communication and connection in some ways, but I was already exhausted by years of trying to fix things. I think my wife and I both were. It felt like most of the changes were bandaids on a sucking chest wound, I'd lost faith in the future of our marriage. My career became a nightmarish quagmire, and I was a social pariah there, which honestly isn't normal for me. My fundamental abilities and value to the company were questioned, and I was stripped of my management title. I became clinically depressed though I didn't realize that's what it was at the time. I don't think there's a direct causal link between our marital problems, depression and work problems, it was more like the whole ecosystem collapsing. It felt like I suddenly sucked at everything. My wife didn't want to go on dates with me, or have physical contact with me. I have a weird and technical job that she's never really understood, so it's hard for us to talk about. When I tried to explain what was going on, she encouraged me to ask for help from higher managers (not really bad advice, but I suck at asking for help and they were unsympathetic) or quit (also decent advice but I was too stubborn and scared of our financial future to take it.) We were both cranky all the time, and withdrew from each other; I started sleeping in the guest room. Nothing was fun, and the world was telling me I was worthless. I asked for a divorce, but my wife was fighting to keep us together. I wanted our marriage to work, but was at a loss as to how to really do it. So we limped forward, still together, but not connecting despite unskillful efforts from both of us.

Then I met the OW. She listened to me and seemed to really understand. She admired and respected me like no one had in years. I felt smart, funny, handsome, talented and sexy around her. By her own design, she became the embodiment of the opposite of everything that was wrong in my life. Everything with her just clicked. Having a good time together was easy. I don't think it was all that hard. I was more miserable than I've ever been. Suddenly I felt loved, and it was like there was light again in the world; hope; a fantasy of an alternative to the world that seemed to be crumbling around me.

Looking back on it, with decent meds, better therapists, a new job that I like, and a vastly improved relationship with my wife I can see that a lot of how I saw the world was about the chemical stew in my head, not having the right communication and coping skills, not having faith in my relationship, and being too easily convinced that some fundamental lies were true. It wasn't about OW so much as it was about me, what I needed and a selfish and destructive but convenient way to get it.


Posts: 33 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:57 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wanted to pop in an give you a hug,JustForgave.


(((((JustForgave))))))

[This message edited by confused615 at 5:58 PM, May 30th (Friday)]


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciled.

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7898 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
Bumbling
♂ New Member
Member # 38920
Default  Posted: 6:18 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sure, if you're not getting any sex in your marriage you have options. Help me out here. These are the ones I see:
1. Furious masturbation. It covers the hormonal component OK, but doesn't help the void in emotional connection or feelings of rejection.
2. Divorce. It's straight forward, though there are painful and tragic consequences.
3. Non-monogamy done with everyone's full knowledge and understanding. Not everyone can make this work.
4. Cheating and hiding it.
5. Doing everything you can to improve the relationship including MC in the hopes of rekindling that attraction.

I think most of us try 5 and 1 since they have the best upside with the least down side. I don't think most of us see how devastating cheating is until we get close to it and it's too late.


Posts: 33 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 10:23 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When "bad sex" or "not enough sex" is used as a why for the A, I always wonder if the WS ever thinks, gee, my spouse was getting bad or not enough sex, too. My spouse was not being fulfilled, either. Yet, they did not cheat, even though using my reasoning, they should have. Do the WS ever think about their own inadequacies regarding an unfulfilling sex life? It takes two in a real, mature marriage.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1584 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
sinsof thefather
♀ Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 3:48 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking back on it, with decent meds, better therapists, a new job that I like, and a vastly improved relationship with my wife I can see that a lot of how I saw the world was about the chemical stew in my head, not having the right communication and coping skills, not having faith in my relationship, and being too easily convinced that some fundamental lies were true. It wasn't about OW so much as it was about me, what I needed and a selfish and destructive but convenient way to get it.
Bumbling I'm glad you came back here to explain your position in a much deeper and more sensible way than your previous starving dog analogy. In this last post you accept most (if not all) responsibility for your affairs as you should.
Then I met the OW. She listened to me and seemed to really understand. She admired and respected me like no one had in years. I felt smart, funny, handsome, talented and sexy around her. By her own design, she became the embodiment of the opposite of everything that was wrong in my life. Everything with her just clicked. Having a good time together was easy. I don't think it was all that hard. I was more miserable than I've ever been. Suddenly I felt loved, and it was like there was light again in the world; hope; a fantasy of an alternative to the world that seemed to be crumbling around me.
But can I ask you about this part though? It seems as though you are saying that you can now see that OW was a liar and a manipulator - is that so? If it is, how does knowing that, knowing now how devastating cheating really is, and knowing how much you've hurt your wife make you view those 'good times' you say you had with her now? If you don't want to answer that here then don't - I know I'm being cheeky bringing it up anyway - but I do think that your description still seems a little rosy, at least in my eyes it does. No it wasn't about OW or who and what she was, it was about you - you're right - but how you view her and your times together with her now - that is also not about OW. That's about you.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 7:07 AM, May 31st (Saturday)]


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
william
Member
Member # 41986
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

painpaingoaway - what an awesome post!


me - bh
her - lara01

from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA

??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys


Posts: 582 | Registered: Jan 2014
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