Anyway, I have a tedious story which was that back in early jan my wife had a v drunken one night stand and told me immediately. It's all here (though I won't be offended if you don't read it!).
We have been muddling along for five months, I didn't kick her out, but we have obviously had our moments. Generally okay though and even managed to take one for the team and we went on a two week hol, along with my brother and his partner who didn't know, as we'd paid for it just before she did it (and my wife had been pushing for the holiday too!).
Anyway, once that was out of the way, I said that despite everything it still wasn't good enough and we needed to get into counselling. She agreed and she managed to sort something free through work but she couldn't book until may. Although my wife was getting better, I still didn't think she was giving it enough as occasionally she would crack and matter of factly drop things like this into mainly civil conversations: "sometimes I just want to have a break from our marriage", "I should be more sorry but I'm not", and, when pushed on the first one, "maybe we should sleep with other people" (?!).
Anyway, I get to late April and I've had enough and basically tell her she should move out for a week as a trial as I'm not really getting anything out if it any more and I'm making all the effort she should be. She calmly agrees and goes the next morning.
This is where it all becomes a real soap opera. Three days in and with counselling potentially able to start, one month ago today, I get a call telling me that my wife's very best friend has been killed abroad in an accident. I obviously revert back to before and ring her and go back to her home town etc to support her (she does try the 'puts it all in perspective' card which I largely ignore). My wife moves back in and we share a bed etc, and she is okay ish until the funeral a week ago (obviously i went with her). I come back Monday for work and she comes back wed, then decides on fri she wants to go back again alone to see the deceased's family, etc. It's my birthday on Tues and she says she will come back today and we will do something tomorrow for my birthday (it's a bank hol tomorrow here). I honour our original plan to keep myself busy and go and see my brother but we have cross words before she goes and she casually says "I just don't ever want to come home any more"!
This annoys me but I sit on it all weekend until she contacts me to give me a dubious reason why she will be coming home on Monday instead (she can get a free lift for a minute part of the distance). I eventually ring her and say, 'let's just face facts, you're not coming back because you don't want to and I don't really want to be alone for long periods at the moment' (this goes back to jan when she kept leaving for weekends and abandoning me when I was really low). My wife admits it and agrees but then still says I'm being a bad person for pointing out the elephant in the room (work that one out!). Anyway, she says she wants to move out and I counter with I want a divorce because this is getting stupid and I can't carry on like this. She says fine. Then she says that she will stay away and she will come back weds and we can talk then and puts phone down.
Basic highlights - she said she still loves me but that she doesn't know who she is any more, that I'm difficult, that she has done something terrible and it's never going to be sorted.
At this point I seriously think we are getting divorced and am okay with it (I go to the shops and get lunch). Anyway, she calls back an hour later to check I won't do anything stupid. I say i won't. She actually bothers to clarify and says that she wants to move out but we still go to counselling together. I ask if there's something going on with someone else and she says no (I believe her). Then she says she will be back tomorrow and that she's only getting an hour of sleep per night and is worried she will have a breakdown.
We say bye and then I text her back and say despite it all I am worried about her and if she wants to call to discuss her weekend/friend and have an 'us free conversation' to call me as I still love her and we are still married. She says she will call me tonight but it's 9pm now and she still hasn't.
I basically am bored to death of all this and am trying to be constructive but I'm running out of patience. I've been being 'nice' for months but she just doesn't seem to give enough of a shit. My attitude has become 'I don't really understand what the problem is any more but I don't want you to take me down with you'. She has told me she thinks she is having some sort of crisis due to being 38 and childless.
Anyway, things are relatively civilised but I just give up. I don't know what to do any more. We still seem to have enough to not throw away 18 years but I feel like I'm banging head against a brick wall and getting nowhere.
I've typed all that on an iPhone so am going to give my thumbs a rest...
I think that you should reconsider MC. At least from what you've said, I see no desire on her part to save the marriage. It's time to move onto the next step file, have her served, and start detaching.
Look. You've wasted 9 months of your life trying to "nice" back someone who not only screwed another person outside of your marriage, but who also seems to think that this wasn't all that big of a deal. Don't waste any more time. Have her served and prepare for divorce. Maybe, maybe, that will shock her enough to get her head out of places that the sun doesn't shine, and if so, you can address it at that point. Unfortunately, I'm betting that it won't have any effect other than her taking off for parts unknown. I'm truly sorry.
edited because I meant to say SHOULD reconsider MC. oops
[This message edited by Skan at 2:19 PM, May 26th, 2014 (Monday)]
D-Day, June 10, 2012
Anyway, she texted just after I posted on here and said she was too tired to argue so wouldn't be calling after all. I texted back and said I was more than happy to have a civilised conversation but fair enough. Then she called me.
We mainly discussed her weekend/friend and she said that she wasn't having a breakdown and regretted saying she was (think she said it to get me off her back - classy touch!).
Transpired she had got a lift half way home yesterday afternoon and is staying with other friends but even though she is not that far away, she plans to come back at around 6pm today. Not sure how this is any kind of compromise as she is still doing exactly what she wanted to do and I'm on my own still but there you go! Also started going on about how she has nowhere else to go in the city we live in (romantic stuff!). Said that she was worried that when she gets back I will say to her what I said when she was running away before - that she only comes back because she has work the next day... Even though she pretty much admitted as much with the above comment!
Also not sure how her raising it first is supposed to ban me from thinking/saying it! Also, she isn't sleeping so she could just get up first thing and come home now then I would prob think it slightly less but this obviously won't happen (because she clearly doesn't want to - so why aren't we getting a divorce?!).
Can't be bothered to argue any more but don't want this any more either. She basically admits she is ruining everything half the time and then tries to blame me the other, and seems to think I like arguing and having to talk to her like she is a child sometimes when she is sulking and feeling sorry for herself (this behaviours pre dated the death incident).
Will see when she rocks up and though I don't see how i can throw her out on to the streets right now, I reckon it's her back in the spare room and trying to press ahead with separation (which as I pointed out to her on the phone she suggested first this time!). Also wary of a scenario where I'm being painted as the bad guy because her friend died and I was horrible to her. Blah, blah, blah...
[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 1:39 AM, May 26th (Monday)]
She is an only child and I don't know if that's an issue, and also in the past I used to cook and organise stupid surprises and stuff, though that dynamic (which I was happy with) has been broken somewhat!
I feel like my focus shifted a month ago when I asked her to move out. Before my thoughts were about the logistics of divorcing and how much I didn't want to be alone at 38 (and that I still love my wife). However, the longer this has strung out, the little effort she has made and the fact that I'm not shell shocked any more has, I think, allowed me to start thinking 'I just need to tie this up one way or the other now and I can worry about that bit later as this just isn't sustainable'. What she is getting out of this I don't know.
Anyway, thanks for listening and letting me get this out. I'm going to crack on with my day (I'm in England) and we will see what happens if she ever bends to my outrageous demands and acquiesces to actually spend a small amount of time in the company of her husband. I'm so demanding!
This is basically where we were a month ago when I told her I wanted her to move out. She said that she can only concentrate 100% on Her friend right now and I said that I understood but my thought process had been that maybe she could do 80% Friend and 20% us considering everything (and by 20% us I mean generally being around each other and getting on, I donít mean having long and involved conversations about everything and putting her under more pressure). This obviously isnít possible so I said Ďfineí. To be honest, Iím just trying to get this thing shoved forward with the minimum of fuss at the moment as the current tedium canít continue.
Anyway, she wants to spend a month living away and after that she wants to make our marriage work but Iím not really sure about any of this any more but as I said, I canít be f%cked to argue. I kind of think that the next month is either going to knock her into shape or give me my first month of moving on with my life (either has to be a good thing). Apparently Iím also allowed to have sex with other people, though to be honest this isnít really at the forefront of my mind at the moment!
She also wants to be here tonight so we can have one pleasant evening (FOR MY BIRTHDAY!) together before she leaves. I said that this is what I wanted to do last night so that we didnít end up having a really important chat about our future squeezed into 10 mins this morning just before I had to drive a car for an hour (seems sensible to me), but that she seems to want to do everything on her terms. Anyway, am guessing she will be there tonight and will try and be civilized but guess sheís in the spare room again and hopefully gone tomorrow. Sheís also called in sick and went to see a therapist/shrink type person this morning.
Home in a minute so will see what tonight brings. Happy birthday to me!
Apparently Iím also allowed to have sex with other people, though to be honest this isnít really at the forefront of my mind at the moment!
I'm sorry you are struggling so much. But that statement right there....That one tells me she either is already having an A or is planning on having an A. Normal, married women don't tell their spouses it's ok for them to go have sex with someone else.
You guys have been together since you were kids essentially. You seem to be really stuck on being alone. YOU need to learn how to be alone, and be happy and content doing it. This will give you strength, power, and an ability to NEVER tolerate being treated less than you should be.
She is marching all over you and your needs. You deserve more than this. She is being awful, and manipulative. It's good that you are tired of it, but when she gets lonely this time, when she is gone, don't let her come crying to you.
YOU have some horribly co-dependent behaviors, and that allows you to put up with crappy treatment. Please start focusing on you. Get Codpenedent no more, and start reading it today. Give yourself the best birthday gift you could ever give yourself. A healthy, confident, independent you.
It may have come too late (I guess we should have been in counselling six months ago and am sure it would have come up pretty quickly) but even if it doesn't save my marriage, am sure it will help me to recognise my part in this and serve me for the better in the future.
I haven't been on here much for the past few days and haven't updated as I have felt pretty strong and didn't want to 'wallow' (though I'm not judging how much other people come on - each to their own!). Anyway, thought I would update now as advice is always welcome and a lot has happened.
My birthday (tues night) we stayed in and she bought me dinner and a couple of token presents.
Chatted loads, mainly grown up but had its moments. General gist is that she needs time alone to think about what she has done, deal with her friend's death and start to appreciate the relationship again (also mentioned 'punishing herself'!). She also said she is being terrible to me.
Basically her friend sat her down on Sun and gave her quite a stern talking to, said she is playing silly games, messing me around and that she doesn't actually know what it's like to live alone and how hard it can be, and that she should try if out as it's not that much fun! So she has gone to stay with friends and I'm staying in the house.
Wife said she wanted to meet up every now and then over the next month to catch up but I said no, no contact at all would be best. The fact is that she is doing my head in and I think I would just prefer to have a break and get on with my own stuff. She tried to backtrack a few times on moving out but I said no.
Have already set up a couple of weekends to see friends and such like. Also unfollowed her on Facebook and deleted all her texts on phone. Not being childish, just determined to get up and move on, not mope and feel sorry for myself and stare at my phone, etc.
I think the entire messed upedness of this situation is summed up by the fact that about 20 mins before she left on Weds, I hugged her for the first time in about a week and she cried her eyes out and started wailing that she was going to lose her best friend and her husband at the same time. Then I left for work and left her to it. She insisted on a hug then and said she'd miss me and I walked off.
Been fine since - been to work, gym, out for drinks, etc. I have bought the book you recommended and am determined to use the time positively: obviously whatever the outcome sorting this codependency thing would be beneficial to me.
A lot if this is down to the fact that we moved to london four years ago and are three hours from our closest friends. I'm not as pathetic as the above makes me sound - honest!
Anyway, I decided to reconnect with a lot of the stuff I used to do before we moved here. Have dug out my bike and arranged to go out with a friend. Am going to make a point of reading four books, go to gym more, and I've joined a forum for strangers to meet up and committed to going to an event next week. Have also made lots of arrangements with friends for the weekends. Not worried really about what she is doing and am remembering that I would rather be in my position than her's (basically 'I'm in the right and I'm in the house'!).
I feel okay - would rather I could think about it less but I can't help that now, and I've been functioning fine. Only cried the once briefly when we were talking.
Anyway, as always, any feedback/advice would be appreciated.
Apparently Iím also allowed to have sex with other people
TushNurse was dead on above. Did you ever address this with your wife? IMO this is pretty massive. She's not giving you permission so much as she is giving herself permission. If something should present itself to her, sounds like she'll take it. I took a step back and everything you wrote in here together sounded like she is saying goodbye. Your bday, etc.
Definitely lots of co dependent issues going on with you. Depression issues with her. I remember that she was having emotional issues before she had her ONS from your old thread too. Her head is clearly not in your marriage right now. All of her actions say me, me, me, me. Even her saying she needs to give you space...is really about her.
Very sorry to see you back here TWM. She's clearly Lost Control again. I really thought you guys were on your way to healing last I heard from you.
So taking a month off may be good for you. Definitely can't worry about her as her shit is definitely NOT together. You can't fix her. Only she can do that and it doesn't sounds much like she wants to. Sounds like she wants everyone to attend her own pity party and create more drama.
Hope your month goes well. What do you want to happen at the end of the month?
Ask yourself , Am I the only one putting energy into this relationship? If so you are definitely codependent and setting yourself up to be abused emotionally. You cannot make the marriage work with someone else whoís not. You need and deserve a partner, which means they give to you as much as you give to them. There is no couple when only one person is putting forth any effort, itís a mother/father relationship.
Head to the Healing Library and read up on the 180* too.
Your statement is correct, your WW wants everything on her terms. Don't allow her to manipulate you or the situation anymore. I am fearful based on her behavior that there may be more than the ONS.
she wants to spend a month living away and after that she wants to make our marriage
If she truly wanted the marriage and to try to R then she would be doing anything and everything to make the marriage work. Not blowing you off regardless of the reason and asking you to sit in limbo why she finds herself. A healthy marriage consists of two people working toward the same goal together. Supporting and loving one another together, especially in times of uncertainty.
I am happy to hear you are doing healthy, constructive things for you. The time now is to focus on YOU.
So sorry you are here and still struggling.
I wish you peace and truth going forward.
It's to bad your WW can't see past her own nose right now. IMO you should seek legal advise and have your WW served with D papers. From what I've read your wife is getting to dictate the marriage on her terms. Stand up for yourself. You deserve better. You've been the rock in your marriage. It's time you start dictating your terms.
I agree with pretty much all of the above bar the affair stuff. She told me straight away before, she is in a right state and I don't think she would go as low as to use her friend's death as an excuse to move out and start an affair. She has been a 'good', if sometimes needy, person for 17 years!
I did address the sex point - this goes back to an old suggestion that I should even the score. I obviously pointed out at the time that this was bad as it showed she wasn't taking responsibility. Anyway, raised it this time and she said that she wouldn't like it if I did but if the opp came up and I did it, she wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
I do however think that she is quite possibly gradually detaching (consciously or sub consciously) but she doesn't have enough will to end it. I've pointed this out and tried to end it, but she has always said no (in fairness most of the divorce talk has always come from me).
I obviously agree that she is not giving enough but it's hard to push through a divorce a week after someone's best friend of 30 years has been buried. I think you're being harsh on me here!
She said she doesn't want to divorce and that once she comes back and is 'better' (though I can this one running and running) that we go for counselling. I told her I would be prepared to meet up for this if it can be arranged over the next three weeks. I would prob like to at least try counselling before we give up altogether (that's fair enough isn't it?). Frustratingly we were about to start when the tragedy happened. She says she is too drained and sad to start right now.
The big two issues for her are grief and she is really angry with herself for ruining her chances at a child which is pulling her apart. She is also angry with me for my perceived part in holding her back from that (I wasn't the most enthusiastic about having kids, though she went along with it for years).
25, she is back three weeks today as that gives us a week to sort ourselves before the Glastonbury festival. She has talked about binning her ticket as she doesn't want to ruin it for me. We've gone together with friends every year since 98. A month today right now I will be watching Interpol 25 - my favourite joy division tribute band!
I would prob like to at least try counselling before we give up altogether (that's fair enough isn't it?). Frustratingly we were about to start when the tragedy happened. She says she is too drained and sad to start right now.
Absolutely. However, even with harsh life tragedies, that is all the more reason to jump in together feet first. Not to wait until she feels like it. I can say that as my own brother pulled an Ian Curtis and had four other people die on me in a 2 year period. No time like the present. But I do get it. Sounds like she doesn't have good coping mechanisms to begin with. She should be in IC first before the MC. MC might be a waste if she doesn't fix herself first.
And not that you have to get a D, and I'm certainly not advocating for it. But have you been to see a solicitor yet? You should if you haven't for the very reason of knowing what your options are IF it should come to that. Hopefully it won't. But knowing those details can be massive with any decisions you have to make going forward. In other words, be proactive and know what will happen before you get to that point.
Only read about the Glastonbury festival. Wish I could be there with ya. She should go regardless. Nothing will ruin Interpol!
Study what Tushnurse had to say. She's right most of the time and has the decided advantage of understanding the workings of the female mind.
Sorry if I'm not answering everything directly, am on a phone so bit tricky.
25, don't worry, I will be going no matter what! I read peter hook's joy division memoir in Mexico - highly recommended (though my memories of mex beaches are now weirdly associated with Isolation etc!).
The fact she prefaced all this with the you can sleep with other people and just the general behavior displayed means she has detached and probably wants to cheat. Now she can go and do it.
I'd veto this separation personally. Either both go to MC and work on the marriage together or get a D.
From what I see, you try to lay down boundaries and being strong and she, for lack of a better word keeps deploying sh*t tests. Hence when you wanted her there for your birthday, she threw spanners in the works, eventually coming home but man did she play some head games until then.
You say you took one for the team? Why? Aren't you doing that again with this separation compromise. She wants to go away to miss you, to sort herself out etc etc. What has she done to take one for you?
There's a lot of push and pull here, when there really shouldn't be any give at all. Your wife should be contrite and working her tail off for your forgiveness because she loves you. The fact she's been dropping hints throughout should be a sign in itself.