I did this to justify what I was doing until I realized the shitty bad choice I was making letting AP back into our lives. AP knew all the right words and I was putty in his hands. All the while BH was right there in front of me doing what he always does and that was being the great husband and father to our children, working his butt off to provide for us, helping me when I needed help loving us, and just being there.

ap was nothing more than a man child that fed my ego and used his charm to get what he wanted before deploying again. Looking back 4 1/2 years ago and now I can see just how stupid I was with blinders full on. I also realized the reason I thought ap was great was because we never left from the honeymoon phase.

[This message edited by remorsefulww at 8:42 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.

I give this background to point out that I think A#2 had a lot of self destructive motivation in it. I felt shit on by everyone, including work and AP#1 at the time. A#2 had a lot of "what is the worst thing I can do right now" in it.

A#1 was more of the typical rainbows and unicorns stuff.

eta: Great post Ascendant.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:54 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

And I'd guess a fair number start with the same slippery slope that mine did--just a friend you can talk to without all the bullshit drama that has taken over your life.

The "without all the bullshit drama that has taken over your life" was specifically in reference to a BS operating in a fog created by the drama the A introduces to a M. My AP was "just a friend" that I could talk about trivial nothings with, banter with, debate pointless topics with--often it was just a place to say stupid things like praise bacon as the nectar of the gods--that was the initial reason we maintained contact once we reconnected. I enjoy that dynamic, and AP could be a selfish ass & an alcoholic & no one that I'd ever want a "real" relationship with & fill that role. Eventually the dynamic changed & we lost that aspect, and that's the same point in which I lost my mind & tried to "fix" the relationship, get that "safe fix" back, and I used some of the most f*ed up ways possible in an attempt to achieve that goal.

Also, this is my truth:

You appear to have a need to set people straight and it nags away at you if you can't.

IRL, I've cut off my in-laws & my sister from sharing the "leading up to X bad decision" drama with me because it took over my thinking, caused me tons of extra unnecessary stress because I couldn't detach, & it frustrated me that they would make the bad decisions anyway even when they're being shown, clearly & directly, how it will play out. I now only play the role of helping them pick up the pieces when they make a choice & it falls apart.

Also, I'm keenly aware of how hypocritical I am. I made many bad choices with my A, during which I at least intellectually understood the potential fallout. I judge myself as harshly as them.

Narcissism seems to play a role in many (perhaps all?) affairs. Yes, I know that's close to a sweeping generalization. I'm not saying every AP is a full blown Narcissist but during an affair people sure seem to get intouch with their narcissistic traits.

Magical Thinking

The need to avoid shame at all costs creates a continuing dilemma for the Narcissist, as life has a way of regularly doling out humbling experiences that cannot be taken in stride. There is always someone who is better, brighter, more beautiful, more successful, more anything-you-can-think-of. The fact that no one is perfect is of little comfort to Narcissists, however, because they see themselves as the exception to this natural law. Their challenge is to find a way to stay pumped up inside in order to hold these harsh realities at bay. The methods they typically employ involve a considerable amount of distortion and illusion, what psycholgists call 'magical thinking.'

Thoughts?

From what I am reading from the wayward's posting here, you all wanted to escape your real life.

More like I was trying to *replace* my real life. The "fantasy" of my A was in the fallacious thinking that I could seamlessly transition from "real life" with XH to "real life" with the OM without any trouble on any front. That it would simply be falling back into place with him, like old times.

Ultimately I was a coward. I didn't ever like to be uncomfortable in relationships and was too afraid to leave XH right away in case I regretted it, but unwilling to not cheat with the OM. The fantasy was that I could eat cake and "have it all" until *I* was ready to pull the plug in one direction or another.

Appalling, selfish, narcissistic, cowardly behavior and to this day I'm ashamed of myself.

At one point I equated it to the scene in Fight Club, where the Edward Norton character realizes he is Tyler Durden, and he starts to see that it was him all along. Re-living parts of his life from that persecptive. I had so bought into my fantasy, that I effectively split myself in two (and 3 at times) in order to survive it.

As for Unicorns and rainbows...

I think the other aspect of not seeing AP for who they really are applies to me too. I thought there were friends. Lied to myself about both of them, and myself too, all to keep reality from crashing in on me. That is where I saw my unicorn. Complete and utter fabrication.

I don't believe that a fantasy world has to be better than real life to be considered a fantasy, it just has to not be based or grounded in any sort of reality.

Even (and especially) in situations where the WS says "I would never be with that person IRL..." this element comes into play, because it begs the question: If you (the impersonal you) would never have sex with this person 'in real life', and yet you ARE having sex with them...then where IS the sex taking place, if not in a fantasy-land of thinking?

Thank you I always wondered why my WH would say this and still does? I don't get it but now I have maybe a better understanding.

For my WH LTA... It was a huge fantasy land. The OW(single) would do anything for him, gifts, money, and she would pump herself up to be this great person who understands him and gets him. Stating she would never be jealous of other women like his wife. They were so mean to me and the things that were said about me simply were not true. I still can not wrap my head around how he allow them to disrespect me so badly.

I think when you get to a point in the A that you are bashing your BS, allowing OM/OW to bash your BS, to lie on them so you look like the poor soul to get ego kibbles is fantasy. My WH is a NPD and he knows how to use people to get what he wants. OW fed into it and still trys to as they are still in contact even tho he wants nothing to do with her as in an A but for work, she still trys after all this time and she is single, so she is in fantasy land also even tho she knows what he is like also.

I will never understand and that is most likely why we are separating again.

I feel that the WHs here get it because they want to get it and live in a real authentic life.

Point is... fantasy can be Cinderella or the wicked witch.... because neither are real.

But anyway, he was getting all these ego-kibbles from her, carefully constructed after years of knowing us. He had not had an attraction to her, but when he started picking up on her interest (at a low point personally, and a difficult time in our marriage) the trust he had in her didn't allow him to see the beginning of the slippery slope. What allowed him to keep going was the idea that she was my friend, and "she must be like" me. Me, "with a sex drive." Yeah. How's that for awful?

So, the mirror aspect of the relationship (she reflected what he wanted to see) with a fairly significant denial of reality (AP and I have some things in common as all friends do, but are very different) allowed him to project my good qualities onto her. How is that for a mind-f^&k?

I remember me buying this bit about us being "so much alike" when he said it after dday, and when I told a mutual friend about it, she was really surprised and offended for me, because it was clearly a fantasy and a rationalization. So anyway, I just thought it was interesting, and wondered if this didn't happen more when the APs are friends or even extended family members.

I don't know if this is helpful for anyone, but I am grateful for being able to hear the experience of WSes. I find it healing, so thank you.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 11:25 AM, May 29th (Thursday)]

I think mine might be classified as an exit affair to some extent. I had given up on BH as being able to be the partner I wanted, and I was angry at him. Obviously I had terrible boundaries and other issues, but I just took up on the first opportunity I found. I guess that doesn't make anything any different, but I still have a very hard time seeing it as fantasy land. Ok, I guess it was fantasy to me because for the first time in a while I felt appreciated?

THIS!!!

I'm SO glad Jovie is back, it's like she pulls thoughts from my head and posts them here.

I wasn't physically attracted to AP, I didn't find him funny or intellectually stimulating because he was thick as two short planks. I used him to tell me what I needed to hear about myself. That was the fantasy.

No unicorns, no rainbows. Just me whoring myself out for some ego kibbles.

No unicorns, no rainbows.

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson

It felt like love, but it was very twisted and full of pain

^^^This was me. And to me coming out of the fog meant stopping the denial of the twistedness and pain.

Rainbows and Unicorns
Forgiveness
The Fog
Remorse
Drinking the Koolaid

These are just a few. They are catchy and phrases/words like these can help get a point across without having to go into long explanations of that particular situation.

The problem is that we are all individuals and these phrases can mean something different to us based on our personal experiences. I know for a fact that what forgiveness means to me is not the same as what it means to several other members. There have been several threads about The Fog in various forums. But when we are talking about our own situation or our own frustrations, it makes it easier to get the point across to use some more general terms.

I feel that when the term "Rainbows and Unicorns" is used it's short hand for the non-reality the wayward was experiencing in his or her situation. Non-reality doesn't imply fun. It implies that the perspective of the individual is skewed, unrealistic. Alcoholics are great at this. They are able to convince themselves why taking another drink is A-OK all the time. Doesn't mean it looks pretty. Just means they can sell themselves quite the pitch as to why that bottle is so worth it.

I know a lot of people have suggested that Rainbows and Unicorns is about escaping real life. For me, I'm not sure I really understood what real life was. I wasn't necessarily trying to escape it, but find it. The problem was the thing I was trying to find doesn't exist. Turns out real life is pretty darn good after all.

My point is, that everyone is making good points! I love Dixie D's example of Magical Thinking. Ascendant made greats points, as usual. Sister M and bionicgal are on point too. And Jovie, even your exit affair can have aspects of fantasy. I classify mine as an exit affair and I was in Lala Land for sure! Try not to take the term Rainbows and Unicorns so literally (they don't exist ). Look at the term more figuratively for the state that you were in to justify your behavior.

When I was cheating on my ex long term girlfriend, I thought about how much "better" my AP was. She didn't tell me what to do, supported whatever I wanted to do, the PA was amazing, hell - she even drove and was willing to chauffeur me around!

The truth? I had to make up these reasons to make myself feel better that I was carrying on a PA with someone who I found unattractive and unintelligent.

Beginning and end.

I would say no unicorns and rainbows here. Maybe a couple of inner demons.

You put on your costume, you assume your character and you go off to your adventure.

In real life I am quiet and reserved, barely touch alcohol, would rather read a book or watch a DVD at home then go out.

When I was cheating, I drank to excess, stayed at a bar till closing regulary, was the life of the party, loud, obnoxious, the fun time guy. (makes me sick thinking about it)

My cheating took place while traveling for work overseas.
I took on the different persona as soon as the plane landed.

I do agree that "unicorns and rainbows" doesn't accurately fit all situations, that it is more of a shorthand. I don't know what you want to call it, but I think it is clear that there is something wrong with the thought processes of those involved in an A. My FWH characterizes it as temporary insanity. Or maybe it is just lack of thought for anybody but oneself. Probably a little different for everybody. Working out where your mind was is an important step in the process. For BS, I think understanding that the WS thinking was skewed is an important step too. I have stopped asking my FWH "What were you thinking?" because I understand now that his thought process was skewed and he can't really explain it. Not in a way that makes sense to me.

Edited because my original post came across way too harsh. My apologies.

[This message edited by hopingforhappy at 11:39 AM, May 30th (Friday)]