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User Topic: 2nd interview panic attack......help me please...
Amazonia
♀ Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 7:46 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

they expected me to drop everything to come out tomorrow to interview. They know I'm at work and should know that that is not enough notice for my employer. She seemed surprised when I couldn't do that.

Shelly, I really and truly hope that this job works out. I hope they blow you out of the water with a salary offer, and that the job is a perfect fit.

But that quote I pulled, that's an attitude I've noticed from you over and over again (and one I'm sensitive to because I see it in myself too). Your boundaries, in this case boundaries about your time, are YOUR concern and responsibility. No one else's. In this world, everyone is out for themselves, and it's up to you to guard your own castle.

This interviewer is doing what's best for her; it's your job to tell her what works and doesn't for you, to enforce your own boundaries. You DID that and that's great (honestly growth, because a year ago you probably would have called in sick to go to the interview because you felt like you were supposed to), but her suggesting what is best for her shouldn't even surprise you. Why would she care about your current job? Why should she assume that your schedule is inflexible? Your current job has nothing to do with her; it's your problem, not hers.

It's like expecting your sister to enforce your boundaries about behavior, or expecting your dad to enforce your boundaries about talking about your sister (instead of you enforcing them), or expecting a guy you're dating to enforce your saying no to sex but then teasing and flirting, and getting upset when he gets mixed signals, rather than you knowing your boundaries and keeping your own behavior within them.

[This message edited by Amazonia at 9:00 PM, May 29th (Thursday)]


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
InnerLight
♀ Member
Member # 19946
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see anything wrong with continuing to put your best food forward in the interview process. I do see you projecting your anxiety on this company, anticipating that they don't care about your needs and will take advantage of you. I agree with Amazonia, it is your job to know your needs, enforce those boundaries, and turn down any offer that doesn't meet your needs. I don't see the harm in moving forward for the next interview.


BS, age 53, d-day 6-2-08, divorced after 17 years and 20 together. Now I am living alone in the beautiful rural property that was once the dream retreat with X. It's taking a long time to create new dreams but despite some struggles I am mostly happy.

Posts: 5857 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Rural California
Amazonia
♀ Member
Member # 32810
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On a completely different note, it's obviously too late for this one, since you already low balled yourself, but if you're applying elsewhere, I do hope you'll take the time to figure out what salary you'd like to be making. You've spent enough time crunching numbers on your debt and expenses (and you're aware of things like rent in your area from past experience) that you should be able to easily come up with a minimum that you'd need to have a reasonable standard of living for yourself and Piper. Once the debt is gone, you'll be able to turn around reinvest some of that money expense into savings and investments so that you never have to find yourself in this situation again.

Think about what you need, not what they are offering, especially when the range is that big.


"You yourself deserve your love and affection as much as anybody in the universe." -Buddha
"Let's face it, life is a crap shoot." -Sad in AZ

Posts: 13798 | Registered: Jul 2011
She11ybeanz
♀ Member
Member # 27457
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, May 29th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trust your gut, Shelly. This whole situation is sketchy. Why is the Director of Finance interviewing you before the managers? That makes no sense, and you know it. I used to be a finance and accounting manager. My subordinates would screen candidates and pass them to me for approval, not the other way around.
Furthermore, she's only been there for 7 months? And your job could include anything? Um, no.

And with this terrible economy, with literally hundreds of applicants for every position, they choose a person who admittedly has no management experience?

Off the top of my head, I would say they are bringing in someone to close out a division.

Again, keep going in the process, but keep your eyes wide open.

See THIS ^^^ Is what I wanted to get across.... I went into this process excited and hopeful for something new and different. I was stoked that I nailed the 1st interview and was overly prepared for the 2nd interview to be challenging and more in depth since it was coming from someone who SHOULD know way more about Accounting and their own industry than me! She is the Director of Finance! That is right up there with Controller almost CFO type material! But, 7 months in and she didn't know something that I found out from 5 minutes of using Google?? The history of her own company and how her industry came to be the way it is?

Maybe I am more prepared than most and maybe I am smarter than I give myself credit for.....but when she admitted she didn't have an answer for me and couldn't give me any reassurance that the layoffs that occurred less than 5 years ago....and I'm not talking a few layoffs...I'm talking over 1,500.....people..... in the U.S. alone.....(as they have markets overseas) when she couldn't tell me that things have gotten better......that bothered me. It took me 8 long months to get a job when I got laid off. That might have been acceptable when I was single but I'm a mom now.....and that means thinking about my daughter's welfare and her future as well as my own. I can't be selfish and just hope for the best.

I took a chance tonight. It may make or break me. She offered another interview and I sent her an email giving her my pay range requirements. I told her that she had asked me for them in the 1st interview and I had given her a stagnant beginning figure but that I had thorough researched the position, the demographics of the position, the cost of living in my area, and what a position of that caliber pays in my region and gave her a wide range. If I shot myself in the foot and don't get a face to face interview, then at least I can say that not only did I NAIL 2 interviews, but that I had the kahunas to ask for what I believed I was WORTH and it felt good! I got invaluable experience and I didn't lose a damned thing in the process! No guts no glory! No regrets!

When I spouted off dates and things that happened in the history of her company and then stumped my interviewer on a question.....it made me feel kinda smart.... and that was invaluable all in itself!

No matter what.....I'm walking away today a winner! A winner for my future....and what it will bring....with or without this position!

Thanks for all the support and critique! I love you guys! :smile

This interviewer is doing what's best for her; it's your job to tell her what works and doesn't for you, to enforce your own boundaries. You DID that and that's great (honestly growth, because a year ago you probably would have called in sick to go to the interview because you felt like you were supposed to), but her suggesting what is best for her shouldn't even surprise you. Why would she care about your current job? Why should she assume that your schedule is inflexible? Your current job has nothing to do with her; it's your problem, not hers.

You are so right. The Shelly from my past would have definitely called in sick or made up some excuse to make it to that interview....I WOULD have been desperate to please them....but I'm not now. I'm not desperate. I don't care if they don't choose me. If I am truly worth their time.....if they are TRULY interested in me, then they will work with me to get it done. Otherwise, why would I want them to have me? I am a valuable, strong, smart, and ambitious young woman who is willing to bring them the moon if they treat me right..... and if they aren't, then someone else will!

Today felt very empowering.... something that I haven't felt in a VERY VERY long time! Thank you all for helping me build my inner strength through this long journey......the healing process is always ongoing..... but it does get better.....and through surviving infidelity...(the name of this website) we thrive.....we grow.....and we conquer our old weaker selves....and we grow out of the ashes of hurt and pain and become the strong phoenix that spreads its wings and flies into the unknown.....

I can't wait to take flight! I'm ready!

[This message edited by She11ybeanz at 9:16 PM, May 29th (Thursday)]


"Sometimes your knight in shining armor ...is just a douchebag in tin foil!!"

ME - BW - 35
HIM - XWH - 39
D day: November 15th, 2009
Married: 5 Years, together 8
Divorced: December 13th, 2010
New Beginning: Piper/8-3-12


Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Virginia
MelisssaZZZ
♀ Member
Member # 25953
Default  Posted: 4:26 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She offered another interview and I sent her an email giving her my pay range requirements. I told her that she had asked me for them in the 1st interview and I had given her a stagnant beginning figure but that I had thorough researched the position, the demographics of the position, the cost of living in my area, and what a position of that caliber pays in my region and gave her a wide range. If I shot myself in the foot and don't get a face to face interview, then at least I can say that not only did I NAIL 2 interviews, but that I had the kahunas to ask for what I believed I was WORTH and it felt good! I got invaluable experience and I didn't lose a damned thing in the process! No guts no glory! No regrets!

Shelly, have you ever tried to recruit someone? what would you think of them sending this type of email before they have offered a job or any more specific conversations about the pay. i recruit regularly and at your stage of process have never had anyone send emails like this... maybe here in uk things are different but i would be schocked (and not in the good way!).

i think panic/ overthinking/anxiety is taking a better of you. anyways, take this as a great learning expierence and as it sounds like you dont want the job, so its actually ok.

but really - control yourself.. Do learn from this. think about how they will see you..

the steps should be (please feel to corret/add)
1. when you apply etc - ask for salary range for the position;
2. 'if they ask you for a number you would like' - you ask for a salary range, talk vaguely about market rates - give them some figures.
3. in uk people usually ask what you are on - you give number _ name main benefits you like/ need;
4. if they think of offering the job, then they come up with number - this is at the end of interview process when they say - we would like to offer you a job.. and you say in principle i am interested.
5. then you negotiate.
6. if you have to negotiate the number you want with great difficulty (e.g. they really struggle to give it to you) - understand that pay rise wont be coming for years and count that in in your calculations on whether to accept the job.. actually either way - count in 0 pay rise for at least 1 year.

and i understand in your email you were trying to do 2/3, but at that stage do not talk about numbers unless invited (the conversation initiated by them). before you start interviewing - yes, you should ask for the range so you know whether there is any point in interviewing at all.

now you know this is the point you have difficulty navigating/ discussing. learn from it.. if you can try to get into recruitment process in your curret company so you can get a perspective as a recruiter, which will help with anxiety..

this is why interview practice is good :)


Me BS - 37
WH 39
1 child - 5yrs
married 5 yrs, together 7
DD1 midmarch 09
DD2 early june 09
some more DD's of course - cannot bother to list
LTA (2 yrs) fully?? finished mid Aug 09
Status: Divorced Oct 2011

Posts: 1235 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: London, UK
sadcat
♀ Member
Member # 8637
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A couple points:

1. The economy is turning around and this is more of a candidate market than it has been in recent years. So there may be a lack of people who can do this job- making you all that more desirable.

2. Salary ranges are just that- ranges. If they know what you currently make they will typically offer no more than 20% over that AT MOST. They are not going to offer you the top of the range if you are coming from a position where you made the lowest number in the range.

If they don't know what you are making they could offer you somewhere in the middle. Regardless, the advice you got here about when and where to bring up salary requirements is good advice.

Shelly- don't psych yourself out of doing something that may be good for you! Even if you don't want this job or don't take it if offered- interviewing for it will give you more confidence for the next time!


I need not suffer in silence while I can still moan, whimper and complain.

If this isn't what I consider soulmate crap, I don't know what is.


Posts: 13259 | Registered: Oct 2005 | From: GA
Too_Trusting
♀ Member
Member # 99
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shelly, have you ever tried to recruit someone? what would you think of them sending this type of email before they have offered a job or any more specific conversations about the pay. i recruit regularly and at your stage of process have never had anyone send emails like this... maybe here in uk things are different but i would be schocked (and not in the good way!).

Not trying to T/J OR speak for Shelly, but her post about the FIRST telephone interview said they DEMANDED a salary number during the interview. She tried to dodge the question by indicating that salary was only one part of the package, benefits, etc., but they INSISTED.

I think NOW, she's just trying to give a more realistic picture of her worth/salary requirements because she was caught off-guard during the first interview.

Honestly, I have been in Shelly's shoes. I interviewed for a job and also tried to dodge the salary question, not wanting to restrict myself with a too-low answer. The HR person also demanded a number. A NUMBER. She told me she HAD to have a minimum I would accept in annual salary.

I ultimately was offered the job, and the offer was substantially more than I had stated as my minimum. This was a very large firm, and I guess they wanted to make sure my requirements were not outside their starting range.

Shelly's potential employer may have been doing the same thing. Just making sure her requirements weren't significantly more than they were ever prepared to offer.

With that said, I have mixed feelings about the email Shelly sent as well, as the company may now feel like she's "changing her story" in mid-stream. But, the email has been sent, and that can't be changed. But, I've always heard/read that you should get the OFFER first, and then negotiate for a higher salary. Afterall, the offer shows that they want you. The negotiations, hopefully, bring both parties to a place of satisfaction.


"Anyone perfect must be lying; anything easy has its cost. Anyone plain can be lovely; anyone loved can be lost." Barenaked Ladies

Posts: 2482 | Registered: Jun 2002 | From: North Carolina
She11ybeanz
♀ Member
Member # 27457
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think NOW, she's just trying to give a more realistic picture of her worth/salary requirements because she was caught off-guard during the first interview.

^^THIS was exactly what I was trying to clarify in my email even if it was not the most tactful time to do so.

They responded with a "The hiring manager ultimately decides on salary and that I would get a bump up from my current salary." At this point I had already decided not to further the interviewing process. I didn't want to waste anymore of their time. I had many concerns about the volatility of their business as I found during my research and the number of layoffs that they have had in recent years set off some red flags at best. When the higher manager couldn't give me much of a job description other than "Nothing is out of the scope of your job description" didn't sit well with me. I don't mind jumping in and doing many different things and multitasking as needed but there were just a lot of things that she couldn't answer for me. She couldn't tie down the amount of travel that would be required, which is a biggie for me since I have my daughter to think about....and she said it would be "To be determined" at a later date....

There was more than just salary with this position that I didn't much care for. I was thrilled that they seemed so interested in me and it gave me confidence for the future. But, I sent them a very polite letter back declining a 3rd interview.

I sent the below (in a signed letter format of course):

I wanted to first express my gratitude for the chance to interview with your organization. I was very impressed with your company and the many growth opportunities and new challenges offered with the business management position. However, at this time, circumstances have changed and I no longer will be pursuing this opportunity. I would like to graciously request that my name be withdrawn from further consideration.

Thank you for your time and consideration. It has been a pleasure speaking with you all.

I was surprised when she pressed for more of a reason why I was declining to move on to the next step and I just kept it pretty generic and she responded with the final email:

Not a problem at all, I appreciate you letting me know. If it was a salary, benefits or scheduling issue that is always something we can work with so I like to reach out just in case. Please let me know if your situation changes in the immediate future.

I'm actually surprised and a little taken aback. I didn't expect them to respond like that at all. The reviews that I read on this company seemed very "non-willing to negotiate" etc etc. But, maybe these were just all jilted employees? IDK...

I responded with a sincere thank you and that I would let her know if things changed in the near future. I know better than to burn bridges.....



"Sometimes your knight in shining armor ...is just a douchebag in tin foil!!"

ME - BW - 35
HIM - XWH - 39
D day: November 15th, 2009
Married: 5 Years, together 8
Divorced: December 13th, 2010
New Beginning: Piper/8-3-12


Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Virginia
ajsmom
♀ Member
Member # 17460
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Shelley...it's me!

I read through this thread, not knowing the backstory of the first interview and I am blown away by how much you have grown.

Woo Hoo!

IMHO as a follower of your story combined with my years of recruiting experience in the HR world, you handled this perfectly. There is one small thing I would have changed, but more on that later.

I'm not going to bust your cojones about giving up the salary number so soon. Lesson learned. Next time think about saying something like: “Once I've had a chance to learn more about the company and the role, I'd be happy to share that information with you."

It is blatantly obvious that this company IS desperate. As is the DOF, whom I'm assuming you'd report to. I am blown away she doesn't know more about the company which only makes me think she does know it, she's just reluctant to share it. DOF’s are top level execs and she should know and be willing to share that information with you, despite her tenure. Crimson flag there for sure. The speed of the additional interviews doesn’t surprise me as it was mentioned earlier that schedules are indeed tough to put together. You were right to hold to your guns, though. Things are tough enough where you are right now and there is no need to rock the boat.

All this aside, your analysis of this opportunity was FREAKING SPOT ON. The reluctance to share info on a very troubling past and the incredibly vague – scratch that – non-existent job description, are the real reasons to walk away – despite the “maybe” of a good salary and benefits. You know your situation best. You know what you can handle as a single, working mom. To me, it sounds like a leap from the frying pan into a big unknown fire.

Now the small thing that I would have changed? I would have been honest with her as to why you walked away. I would have laid all my concerns out to her. To me, that shows character and puts you in the category of applicants who is intuitive enough to ask the tough questions even if it means not getting the job.

This was a Spidey Senses win!

Well done, my friend. Well done.

AJ’s MOM


Fidelity isn't a feeling...it's a choice.

"Truth has no special time of its own. Its hour is now - always." - Albert Schweitzer
____________________________________________
Me: BW - Him: 200+ # tumor removed 7/09
DS - 31 - Yikes!


Posts: 21071 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: Been Through Hell...On My Way Back
She11ybeanz
♀ Member
Member # 27457
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now the small thing that I would have changed? I would have been honest with her as to why you walked away. I would have laid all my concerns out to her. To me, that shows character and puts you in the category of applicants who is intuitive enough to ask the tough questions even if it means not getting the job.

This was a Spidey Senses win!

Well done, my friend. Well done.

Thank you AJsMom... Something just didn't sit right with me....heck a bunch of things didn't!!!

But, anyways....I will admit...I wussed out on the blatant hardcore truth of why I was walking away. They always say not to burn your bridges and to be vague....(Which I won't lie....I Googled on the proper etiquette on declining further interviews). I knew that if I told them the truth that they would most likely blow more smoke up my ass to try to continue the process and I just didn't feel like playing that game anymore. But, I see what you are saying and it is a character builder. In the future, I will be sure to be more true to myself and the prospective employers! I appreciate the tip and the fact that you were a recruiter and gave me your honest 2 cents! It feels good to hear you agree with my thought process and understand why I made the choices I did....even if I made a few stumbling mistakes along the way....


"Sometimes your knight in shining armor ...is just a douchebag in tin foil!!"

ME - BW - 35
HIM - XWH - 39
D day: November 15th, 2009
Married: 5 Years, together 8
Divorced: December 13th, 2010
New Beginning: Piper/8-3-12


Posts: 2724 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: Virginia
Topic Posts: 30
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