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User Topic: the whys...again...yes again
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was just thinking about how often I hear many BS talk about what they weren't doing in their relationships. You know...the usual...not having/giving their spouses enough attention, time, and date nights.

I am all for owning your half of marital problems. Hell, I did it too. Sure...there are plenty of reasons for those affairs...but never an excuse.

Lately though, my mindset has changed. Sure, I am human. I make mistakes. I am not perfect in our relationship.

But, you know what? It is a relationship. A partnership that consists of TWO (yes count them) TWO people. Both equally responsible for setting aside time, attention, and date nights. If the WS was not getting their needs met by the BS, then the WS was just as responsible for setting up date nights too. They were just as responsible for communicating their unmet needs.

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. One spouse (usually the BS/mature one with better coping skills) does all the work. Sets up date nights and takes care of the WS...till circumstances come along that they get tied up (kids, sickness, career issues, whatever). Then the WS (immature) acts like a two-year old that can't take care of themselves or make themselves happy in a productive way that doesn't involve walking all over other people and taking an easy way out.

Sure, not all fit this bill. For mine-it was the perfect storm of so much plus the above. But, you know what...he could of made a damn date night himself with me if he was so bored.

Just a vent day Sometimes I just get angry and feel like I was married to a child that needs their hand held and their ego boosted at the age 40 like a child.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I in his eyes am the wayward because EA's aren't real. I set up vacation, date nights, job interview for him, did more then my half of cooking, cleaning, made sure he didn't sleep all day and was kind of productive, made sure he kept up with familial obligation. Then i fell into a deep depression and used shit coping skills. Yes i tried to talk about it, i fucking cried one day because i set up a date and again he was late. He freaked out. None of it was a reason for what I did but I more then own my half of the issues pre A he needs to own his too.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"There are times when our reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind." Patrick Rothfuss


Posts: 2802 | Registered: Oct 2012
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me and WW always had date nights before and after kids (we got a sitter). We took vacations together - europe several times while MIL took care of the kids.

I always fussed over V-Day and birthdays and made big deals of Halloween and Christmas.

I also worked long hours though. And I was frequently distracted by my hobbies. Our M wasnt perfect. I wasnt perfect. But neither was she.

Looking back now. It was about the time that her EA started that I sensed there were problems in our M. I doubled down on working to make it better. I quit my hobbies. Tried to work less too. Gave her gifts. I did all I could think of. But the more I did the more she pulled away.

Now post Dday. I still feel I am doing most of the work. WW just seems to want to forget her EA-PA happened at all.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
NoDoormat
♀ Member
Member # 43529
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Looking back now. It was about the time that her EA started that I sensed there were problems in our M. I doubled down on working to make it better. I quit my hobbies. Tried to work less too. Gave her gifts. I did all I could think of. But the more I did the more she pulled away.

Now post Dday. I still feel I am doing most of the work.


Same here. But they had already checked out, right, so our pull just has the effect of pushing them further away, right? Sigh. Another double-bind.


Me: MH 38, Him: MH 40
For-real separation for 3 months now.

Posts: 82 | Registered: May 2014
Broken613
♀ Member
Member # 17670
Default  Posted: 12:15 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. One spouse (usually the BS/mature one with better coping skills) does all the work. Sets up date nights and takes care of the WS...till circumstances come along that they get tied up (kids, sickness, career issues, whatever). Then the WS (immature) acts like a two-year old that can't take care of themselves or make themselves happy in a productive way that doesn't involve walking all over other people and taking an easy way out.

I agree with this 100%. It's just another form of destructive self-medication - if that makes sense.


Don't gamble with what you can't afford to lose.
D-Day - December 18th, 2007
Real D-Day - May 24th, 2014
More lies in months that followed

Posts: 175 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: British Columbia
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefulmother:

I resonate with your post in its entirety.

I don't think you are imagining things.

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

The detective who examined our computer resurrected my husband's deleted emails. In some of them, the OW and my husband were complaining about minor, even silly things about their respective spouses.

They sounded like two teenagers complaining about their parents refusing to let the stay up 'till midnight on a school night

Almost all the MCs we saw before settling on a good one, noted that my husband seemed to be the selfish one.

He was the spender, I the saver. His idea of a good marriage, according to them was unrealistic, mine realistic.

My husband also came from a family where when he was one year old, his sister drowned in the family pool.

Thereafter his parents treated him like an emperor. They refused him nothing. Whatever he asked for he got, whether or not they could afford it.

The counselors said this gave him a very exaggerated sense of entitlement.

After Dday, two of the many crazy excuses he gave for the affair, was that he felt "entitled" and "everyone else was doing it"

Both sound as if something a teenager would say.

Like my mom would say to me when I said: "everyone was doing it"....she would say, "so, if everyone else were jumping off the San Francisco bridge, does that mean you should do it two?


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefulmother:

I resonate with your post in its entirety.

I don't think you are imagining things.

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

The detective who examined our computer resurrected my husband's deleted emails. In some of them, the OW and my husband were complaining about minor, even silly things about their respective spouses.

They sounded like two teenagers complaining about their parents refusing to let the stay up 'till midnight on a school night

Almost all the MCs we saw before settling on a good one, noted that my husband seemed to be the selfish one.

He was the spender, I the saver. His idea of a good marriage, according to them was unrealistic, mine realistic.

My husband also came from a family where when he was one year old, his sister drowned in the family pool.

Thereafter his parents treated him like an emperor. They refused him nothing. Whatever he asked for he got, whether or not they could afford it.

The counselors said this gave him a very exaggerated sense of entitlement.

After Dday, two of the many crazy excuses he gave for the affair, was that he felt "entitled" and "everyone else was doing it"

Both sound as if something a teenager would say.

Like my mom would say to me when I said: "everyone was doing it"....she would say, "so, if everyone else were jumping off the San Francisco bridge, does that mean you should do it two?


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

deleted this because it was a double posting of same post.

[This message edited by seethelight at 12:32 PM, May 30th (Friday)]


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1516 | Registered: May 2014
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seethelight
Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

Yes. I have often thought that they feel like that too. The same way we felt about our parents as teenagers. We may make remarks to our peers about how lame our parents are and may even rebel or treat them harshly. Because we are more worried about our peers approval or relationships. We loved our parents, but we didn't always care about their opinions. We could do what we wanted, because we always knew that our parents loved us unconditionally.


I think our WS acted the same way. They got to the point where they felt they could do whatever, because they believed that we (like their parents/in a parent role) loved them unconditionally. They no longer cared about what we thought...they just cared about what their peers (AP's) thought. They already had us bagged.

My husband was the "golden boy" who could no wrong in his mother's eyes. She was sick with lupus. So the family was centered on her all the time too. Which meant the kids took care of her and they did not do many of the things normal families did due to her becoming a victim/marter to her illness. She has a huge sense of entitlement. I brought that up two days ago in MC. It is a learned behavior from his mother.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 2:28 PM, May 30th (Friday)]


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unagie I hope he wakes up soon. Even with all the stuff in the library, he still believes there is no such thing as an EA?

Razor I sure hope that she didn't rugsweep for all these years.

NODOORMAT Yep, like seethelight stated, our additional love when we sensed a crisis just pushes them away like a parent cracking down and trying to show us love and support. You just wanted them to give you space. Problem is...we BS don't want to be your damn parent and never asked to be. Though I can see that we help that along by being more responsible and I guess in a sense enabling them to be immature for probably a long time before the A's ever happened. For normal people what we did would have been love. For an immature/broken WS...it was parenting. We just never knew it.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
NoDoormat
♀ Member
Member # 43529
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ay. Well, I thought I had given up the parenting role, but it looks like when I gave it up in one area, my H found a way to rope me back into it somewhere else. This is just hideous. I never imagined I would be so hurt again in my life.


Me: MH 38, Him: MH 40
For-real separation for 3 months now.

Posts: 82 | Registered: May 2014
annb
♀ Member
Member # 22386
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are books in which the psychologists mention that in the majority of affairs, the person who cheated was immature and was the taker in the relationship, while the faithful was a giver.

^^Spot on in my personal situation. It was always about the WH and his needs and his schedule and his job and his hobby. Always. Not a compromising bone in his body. Extremely selfish. I was the responsible one...for the home, the finances, the kids, etc......

They no longer cared about what we thought...they just cared about what their peers (AP's) thought. They already had us bagged.

^^^Bingo! Yep, same here. He was more concerned about how he appeared to his colleagues, his friends, his hobby co-enthusiasts. What I thought pretty much never mattered.


Posts: 7632 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Northeast
hopefulmother
♀ Member
Member # 38790
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, May 30th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<<<nodoormat>>>

AnnB I would be pissed if it was like he was having an A with the rest of the world at my expense. I hope it is not like that anymore.


*BTW my fWH has stepped up the game and doesn't act like a child anymore. But, of course...I wised up and don't ever let him. Though we are still struggling with him taking the lead every once in while. Being a STAHM, I think it is hard for that to happen. Not just on his part, but on my part for letting go. After all...I am the one at home. I know the routines and schedule. But, we have been discussing in MC that it would be nice for him to make plans sometimes. Taking and initiative.


Me-BW 39
WH-39
D-day 9-4-12
Major TT 8-14
Friends for 20yrs dating since 2000
Married 10yrs with 2 toddlers
My wedding band is a symbol of hope, forgiveness, love, and grace.

Posts: 953 | Registered: Mar 2013 | From: PA
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 1:11 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopefulmother yes he refuses to ever read here. He has apologized for the pain caused but that's all. I had to forgive him to be able to focus on my own actions. The point of my post though is that I was the responsible one. I took care of the joint money, vacations, jobs, dates, bills...really rent was the only thing he had to go get out the bank. He took care of his personal finances. I never minded any of this and share it only to say in his eyes I am the wayward but I was the one who made sure we got by and did what was necessary to live and love for the majority of us being together. Although I freely admit I did more then fuck up at the end.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"There are times when our reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind." Patrick Rothfuss


Posts: 2802 | Registered: Oct 2012
Hope2B
♀ Member
Member # 40474
Default  Posted: 2:43 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I do see, is that most of the time (and I say most not all) there is one spouse that is immature and one that is mature. . . . Sometimes I just get angry and feel like I was married to a child that needs their hand held and their ego boosted at the age 40 like a child.

^^^^This!!!! In our early years, this dynamic was more balanced equitably and things were good. As he aged, and felt more and more entitled, he came to the conclusion that he could step outside of the marriage and everything would still be okay! He's going to be 65 this year, and this Parent-Adult-Child thing has been a focus a number of times in IC and MC. Every time he behaves like a child, it automatically puts me in the role of a Parent moreso than an Adult, and now I call BULLSHIT on him. My modeling adult behavior apparently never really worked for him. So much for leading by example.

Others talk about how some waywards start to see their spouse as a parent figure, if they act too responsibly with money or other issues, and they rebel like a teenager.

^^^^ and THIS!

we BS don't want to be your damn parent and never asked to be. Though I can see that we help that along by being more responsible and I guess in a sense enabling them to be immature for probably a long time before the A's ever happened. For normal people what we did would have been love. For an immature/broken WS...it was parenting. We just never knew it.

^^^^AND THIS! His sisters and parents always came to his rescue whenever he got into trouble. He was the golden child, the only son and the baby of the family. He is Mr. Happy Go Lucky and even when he has his brief times of regret for he A, he just bounces back and is Mr. Happy Go Lucky.


Me: early 60s
Him: 65 yrs old, LTA w/a pro$titute
Married since 1980, no children
DDay: Feb. 25, 2013
Trickle Truth Days: Sept 10, 11, 13, 15 (2013)
His affair--says it was only 8 times 1x/mo, then found out it was 7 YEARS 2-3x/mo or maybe ever 4x/mo

Posts: 363 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: out west/west coast U.S.A.
Chinadoll30
♀ Member
Member # 43131
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, May 31st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nodoormat, I feel the same. I had stopped parenting WH like I did early in our relationship. I let him step up. But he found the one area where he could still hit me. And I agree with this post entirely. WH felt so neglected and rejected, yet do you think he put any effort into resolving or working on those feelings between us? Not at all.


"We must see all scars as beauty. Okay? This will be our secret. Because take it from me, a scar does not form on the dying. A scar means 'I survived'." -Chris Cleave

Posts: 341 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Philadelphia
Topic Posts: 16

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