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User Topic: how do i explain this to BH? BS welcome
Alyssamd24
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Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:01 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During my A I thought I was in love with my XAP. We both said it, and at the time (when I was in fantasy land) I believed it. My BH knows this....he knows this from conversations between him and I, and he also read it in some of my conversations with XAP.

Now almost 10 months later I have come back to reality and realize the only love between myself and XAP was that we loved how the other made us feel....there was no love...it was lurv. I understand this now and see many things I didn't before.

But how do I explain this to my BH? I know how much it hurts him that I thought I was in love with XAP, but it doesn't seem like it's enough to say " I thought I felt that way but now see it for what it really was."

I have tried saying that but don't think it's good enough of a reason. I want to explain it to him in a way that will make it better (if that's even possible) but don't know how.

I am hoping others have experienced something like this and can offer input...and of course I would love to hear what the BS have to say.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 874 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
Actionsoverwords
♂ Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Alyssa,

I told my AP that I was in love with her in the midst of my A. I didn't mean it and I said it for my own reasons, but none of that mattered once the A came into light. It is still difficult for me to explain to my BW what I was thinking. I know a part of her believes that a part of me did love the AP and it is tremendously painful for her.

Believe me, I regret ever uttering those words to my AP. I can relate. Does your BH post or read SI? Maybe if he reads some of the posts made by WS he would be able to understand your state of mind at the time of the affair?


Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 272 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, that's probably the part that burns the most. How can/do you *love* someone else without falling out of love with the BS? Lurve is a foreign concept to some of us.

the only love between myself and XAP was that we loved how the other made us feel

is probably the best explanation that I've heard or seen expressed.

Next step, show and explain what love truly means. The fact that you love BS for who he is and not the *feelings* he engenders. (Though those are nice too ). He is more
than just a transitory feeling.

Not easy nor quick. You're on the right path though.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2995 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
TheAgonyOfIt
♀ Member
Member # 39114
Default  Posted: 11:13 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i think that the fact that you are truly working to find the truth within yourself is a testament to your desire to grow and to work towards healing for both of you.

your saying " I thought I felt that way but now see it for what it really was." is not easy on the ears but it's easier than denying what is real. And nothing is easy about this. what you have so far, well it's true, it's a start and it's effort and that all matters.

And if you continue to dig deeper and both of you learn more about affair dynamics and psychology, you will get to where you need to be. growth, healing, understanding, maturity, values etc etc.

good luck. i just popped in and saw your post.


Me BS 49, ExWS: narcissist! Jekyll Hyde. Left in secret early July, moved states. Now homeless but getting it together. Necessary but difficult(!) transition! Sad sad sad but hopeful.

Posts: 554 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: theagonyofit
Christy516
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Member # 42546
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here
My WH also told his AP he loved her. It is one of the most painful aspects of the A. He, too, had a revelation that what he felt wasn't real. I'm glad that he now feels that way. It gives me hope for the future of our M.

But it doesn't change the fact that he said it. That he meant it when he said it. That i was right there, in his life, being his wife and he still thought he loved another woman. Nothing can undo that.

I appreciate that you want to take that pain from your husband. Nothing can because when you said it, you meant it. He will always know that you are capable of devolping feelings for someone else even though he is RIGHT THERE. That is how I feel anyway.

What does give me comfort is my WH working on himself so he will never put himself in that position again. When he recognizes and shares with me revelations of why and how he was able to take that first step. When he fixes/deals with what is wrong inside him and shows me with actions that his way of coping with his stress has changed.

My advice to you is to leave it alone unless he asks. You told him you realize you never really loved the AP. Now concentrate on showing your husband you do love him.


Me: 44
Him: 39
DD: 1/5/14 (the final one)
Trying to recover

Posts: 161 | Registered: Feb 2014
redsox13
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Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, June 1st (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have found the explanation from my ww confusing and they raise as much angst as comfort. You tell me when you said you loved them you were wrong but when you say it to me it is right. What is different this time. My w w has never answered the question convincingly


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 266 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
SlowUptake
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Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 12:24 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My advice to you is to leave it alone unless he asks. You told him you realize you never really loved the AP. Now concentrate on showing your husband you do love him.

^^^^^^^^^^This is spot on.^^^^^^^^^^^^

The issue we WS's have in explaining our feelings and resulting actions to our BS's is that we are trying to explain irrational, screwed up thought processes to someone who has never had them.

It's like trying to explain the colour red to a person blind from birth, there is no frame of reference.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 12:25 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
blindsided14
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Member # 43266
Default  Posted: 1:09 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here. This is a tough one and, as you can see from some of the replies here, hits close to home for many of us.

I'm still new here, so don't want to speak out of turn but - I feel you should first think about your motivations for wanting to provide some further explanation on the meaning of your "I love you" to the AP. Has he asked for this or are you wanting to provide some answers to make you feel better.

It sounds, from what you've written, that this is (understandably) an aspect of the A that is particularly painful for your BS to discuss.

My WW told her AP that she loved him and that he had a place in her heart more than anyone had before. She has told me, essentially what your suggesting you say to your BS and I can tell you, from experience, that it is honestly more infuriating than it is comforting.

My response was, it doesn't matter that you realize NOW that it was lurv. At the time, you felt like you were in love. You did things and said things people only say and do with those they love and are in love with.

Put another way, the words aren't the real source of pain. It is the fact that you let someone who was not your spouse in your heart and allowed your interactions with them to consume your mind and take priority over all else in a way that you would only have done if, at the time, you loved that person. Realizing it was lurv can't take any of that away.

I admire you for the fact that you are seeking advice of others for how to help your BS heal. Your heart seems to be in the right place.

And you know your spouse and your situation better than me (obviously).

So if you have reason to think this is something your spouse needs to hear from you, go for it. I just think that this is a conversation that won't help your BS heal if he is anything like me or most other BHs.

Good luck and god bless.


Posts: 56 | Registered: Apr 2014
Alyssamd24
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Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 5:17 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your replies.

My BH is on SI but doesnt post that often.

I do understand that its more the point that I felt it at the time and thought I meant it...I understand how traumatizing that is for my BH.

When we discuss my A that is one of the main things he understandably brings up...which is why I am looking for ways to try to explain this better to him.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 874 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
theseseatsRtaken
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Member # 43088
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Alyssa,

I told my AP many times (mostly by msg) but also verbally that I loved her. In my case I believed that I SURELY must mean it and that it must be real love because why else would I step outside of a happy marriage?

Your statement was spot on and applies to me perfectly as well. We werent in love with the AP. We were in love with how we made each other feel. Desired, exhilarated etc


For me, it comes down to a very simple (with hindsight of course) concept. Love, real love, takes time and it takes work. The Hollywood idea of love at first sight is a dangerous and mythical deception. Real love is born from long term commitment, honesty, vulnerability and sacrifice. Establishing and committing to your boundaries before you need to use them.

Can you honestly say that you were able to establish those kinds of bonds with your AP? This is how I explain it to my BW now. Real love in that short time, amongst that pathetic childish behaviour - cannot be grown. Ever. Infatuation sure. But not love.

I hope that helps in some way. Strength and support.

[This message edited by theseseatsRtaken at 6:13 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Me: WH 29
Her: BW 31 (RomanticInnocenc)
Our son: 6 months
DDay#1 Jan 8, 2014, DDay#2 Jan 10, 2014
Being given the gift of attempted R
I don't PM with female members.
"Your character is who you are when no-one else is watching".

Posts: 115 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
Bobbi_sue
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Member # 10347
Default  Posted: 7:54 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

During my A I thought I was in love with my XAP. We both said it, and at the time (when I was in fantasy land) I believed it.

My H said it to OW too. To me, this is worse than if they had sex (they never did have sex during our M).

Soon after D-day he admitted, yes he said it but didn't mean it, and said it would be impossible to just dump her instantly like he did, if he REALLY loved her. This does not provide much comfort because in spite of the majority here defining love as actions rather than feelings, and describing those feelings of euphoria and exciting desire to be with someone as "fantasy" I don't fully buy it.

For me, love is more feelings than actions. I love my grandchildren, and these warm loving feelings are what drives me to act in loving ways to them, not the other way around. Romantic love is different, but in some ways the same. The feelings are more what drives me to want to act loving, than the other way around.

My own relationship with my H started with a very strong infatuation and I would not trade those memories of that time of our lives for anything in the world. So I would not find it at all comforting if someone said that my H was infatuated with the OW. I would find it every bit as devastating as if he really "loved" her and maybe even more so.

My H is extremely remorseful and I guess I just don't want to dwell on whether he really "loved" her or not. I'd rather think not but in my view, love is what a person feels at the time they feel it. I actually think it is more honest to admit that you loved her at the time. Now that you regret the A, and are remorseful, it is embarrassing to think you loved her. But if you felt you did at the time, you did. That is just my opinion, of course.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 8:00 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Posts: 5760 | Registered: Apr 2006
wheredoigo
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Member # 42327
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Alyssa,

I don't want to speak for you, but throw you a bit of a bone to chew on.

I never said or thought about "lurving" my APs because that was never something I was looking for in my "need" for "validation." However, I can identify in some ways because I never experienced love from another person to know how to show it. What I do think is important in this case, is to ask yourself why you did feel that you felt that way and said those things and then dig from there.

I can tell you one thing that I think most WWs that "get it" will probably agree on: you learn about true love from experience to those who show it to you.

For example, Unfortunately, I never truly knew what real love was until my BS decided to start R'ing. To love me that much, even in pain, no trust of me, all of my skeletons, lies and faults, yet still put himself out there to believe that we could still be together knowing the pain would always be there is beyond anything I could imagine.

I look at newlyweds now and sigh, wishing that I could tell them how much work marriage truly is so that they will expect the moments that come where you feel like walking away. Truth is, I remember our pastor counseling us and telling us, but like expecting parents, you have know idea what life is like on "the other side" until you experience it firsthand.

I can't think of one marriage where either spouse has not met a moment where they feel defeated. The difference is how you regroup your thoughts and look at your own hand in the situation and then handle the/those moment(s) to better the situation; that shows true love and commitment.

Maybe you didn't truly have a definition of love before this, and, like me, it took someone (in my case my BS) showing you what actual love looks like for you to truly see the meaning.


[This message edited by wheredoigo at 2:50 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


1st marriage BS to xSAWH (34)
WW-2nd marriage (me) 33 to BS(Jt8d) 35
It's important to heal yourself in a healthy way from all hurt or it will hurt you and the ones you love more than the original hurt before.

Posts: 217 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Midwest
bionicgal
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Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in another forum, but it is regarding your question:

The love thing hurts as a BS. My H told the AP he loved her; he thought he did. He'd not have been able to have sex with her if he didn't think he did, I know him well enough to know that. But, pretty early on in R we saw this chart about love vs. infatuation -- which was very helpful.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Infatuation_vs_Love

My H had very strong feelings for the AP at the time, but it was not love. He couldn't look down the right hand column and find one thing that applied to them. So, maybe this will help in your situation. Now, my H sees that he was quite simply, wrong. He loved a reflection of himself that she gave him. He loved feeling like he was attractive, funny, athletic and sexy. None of it had anything to do with her.

I do actually think that infatuation/falling in love is different in real relationships, and in affairs. In an affair, you are acting in the shadows. I have said this before, but it is a hothouse environment that feeds this feeling of "specialness" because no one can know. Also, people don't usually imagine themselves capable of an affair, so there is the idea that "It feels so right, it can't be wrong, we must be different." I think these factors make the infatuation more intense in some ways. But, also, less real. It is a fantasy.

For me, falling in love with my spouse was a time of learning about him, learning about his likes, dislikes, and his character. It was also a lot of fun! Most waywards will say that in general affairs aren't super fun -- not for long. There is a huge dose of anxiety, insecurity, low self esteem, paranoia, and shame that get into the mix. So, there was all the chemistry in our courtship, and there was legitimacy & authenticity there - we were not just mirroring what the other person needed/wanted to see. That to me, matters. There was no dark side.

So, no -- I don't think two people sneaking around in public parks and banging each other in family vehicles is love in any form. Not the same as our beginning, because on some level, you cannot respect yourself (or the other person) if you are selling out your family, their family, your morals, and your soul, for an ego boost and an escape.

So, one can feel what they think is love, and look back on it and say: "I was wrong." Those are the most powerful and healing words my husband has said to me. Our MC said it too, when I said, "But he said he LOVED her!" He said, "Well, he was wrong." Very healing.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 3:06 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2065 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
seethelight
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Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My response was, it doesn't matter that you realize NOW that it was lurv. At the time, you felt like you were in love. You did things and said things people only say and do with those they love and are in love with.

Put another way, the words aren't the real source of pain. It is the fact that you let someone who was not your spouse in your heart and allowed your interactions with them to consume your mind and take priority over all else in a way that you would only have done if, at the time, you loved that person. Realizing it was lurv can't take any of that away.

I admire you for the fact that you are seeking advice of others for how to help your BS heal. Your heart seems to be in the right place.

And you know your spouse and your situation better than me (obviously).

So if you have reason to think this is something your spouse needs to hear from you, go for it. I just think that this is a conversation that won't help your BS heal if he is anything like me or most other BHs.

Alyssa:

I agree with this poster. Unless he wants to discuss it, trying to explain you were in lurve instead of in love or you were infatuated instead of in love, etc, all sound like excuses.

Really does it matter whether we call it lurve, infatuation, a crush, puppy love, it all started out the same way things started out with the spouse.

So to the spouse the things that were said and done in the affair are things that people who are in love do.

And, trying to differentiate between lurve, love, infatuation etc, is simply semantics.

The fact is the person in an affair does all the things that people in love do, all the things that married people do, and all the things they promised NOT to do, anymore, when they got married.

Another poster suggested admitting that it was love would be the most honest approach.

Maybe.

Sadly, I don't think anything one can say can make things better after an affair.

The things they did with the AP are always going to be in the back of the betrayed's mind.


If two people truly have feelings for one another then they dont have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1392 | Registered: May 2014
numb&dumb
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Member # 28542
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can see you trying, but one thing I will point out gently to you is this:

I know how much it hurts him that I thought I was in love with XAP

Again gently, you do not. Unless you have walked in those shoes you will never understand how bad that hurts. No amount of empathy is going to help you feel that. It was said and he is never going to forget that. He will carry those scars with him.

It seems you are trying very hard to get him to see it your way or convince him that what he believes is wrong.

Don't go down that path. It is an argument you are never going to win.

This isn't about talking to him to get him to see it a different way. This is showing him how much you love him day in and day out. Over a long period of time.

If you are consistent and keep showing him, he will come to that understanding on his own.

I am not saying your shouldn't do anything, but trying to convince him otherwise isn't going to be productive as you hope it to be.

Apologies and genuine remorse are going to get you further in this regard.

Even using the "I was lost, I was in a fantasy land," does not paint you in the best light to him.

What is done is done. Don't try to change it, but apologize and make amends.

You heart is in the right place. Even knowing that is going to help him.


Me-35 her-35

DS 1, DD 6
Dday 8/31/11. ONS that occurred 3 years earlier. Lied to for 3 years.

Every truth comes to light in a long enough timeline.


Posts: 2559 | Registered: May 2010
1Faith
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Member # 38975
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It has been 10 months since Dday?

Is it healthy or relevant to bring this up now? Will help your BH heal or could it re-open up a healing wound?

Are you telling him for his sake or for yours?
I would only bring it up if it is still an issue for him. Don't bring it up to ease or justify why you believe you said it. It may hurt him more to bring the subject up again.

Your BH has stuck by you for 10 months. That is true love.

Your BH has come to terms with many things in his own way. Perhaps he has also reconciled the love you professed wasn't "love" or "lurv" it was just the lies and manipulation that you two fed each other.

Just a thought. Good luck.


"I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it." - Maya Angelou

Posts: 1207 | Registered: Apr 2013
Alyssamd24
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Member # 39005
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry I haven't responded; its been a busy day

Numb&dumb, I understand your point..I definitely wont argue this point with my BH or try to change his opinion and I am sorry it came off that way; I do understand though that rather focus on that I should be instead focusing on how to show him now how much I love him...I need to focus more on the process of R rather than the A.

Bio: thanks so much for the link....I read the chart and found it extremely helpful. I think I can definitely say that I was infatuated with XAp.


"I need to be redeemed to the one I've sinned against because he's all I ever knew of love"

Posts: 874 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Massachusetts
redsox13
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Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly this is a question I don't think any WS will ever be able to explain to a BS. I would not bring up this question: ever. Each time it has come up with my W it becomes apparent that there is no answer. She will tell me she was broken, was in the fog, etc.

None of it is convincing. Now I certainly believe that our connection is deeper than with the OM, and that our love is deeper, but she will never be able to convince me she was not in love with the OM - because I have seen too many emails where she explained why she was in love to the OM.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 266 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
somethingremorse
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Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wrote this in March on ICR:

1. I have kind of figured out that the "love" with the AP was sort of like what I felt towards a high school girlfriend. At 18, I would have said I loved my GF. That would have been an honest feeling. That wasn't very deep -- we may have seen each other after lunch, dated every other weekend, and didn't have any bigger concerns than what college to pick. Seemed important at the time. But it's no where near the love with BW. The problem is that "love" is such a huge concept (and so is attraction). My feelings towards AP were on the continuum, but way far away from what I shared with BW. So when I said "love" or a "connection" or "relationship" I wasn't lying. But I was talking about something much smaller and less significant that with BW.

2. I wanted to justify my actions. Since I did such horrible things, I must have had a good reason for it. I convinced myself that I had some emotional connection. That makes it better in my mind.

3. In my A's, I told the AP that they were great, but everyone else was messed up. They did the same thing to me. That's pretty powerful -- we like people who think we are important or attractive.

I have had this conversation with my IC. We kind of touched on it in MC. BW hasn't asked about it directly. So I don't quite know how she will react to this explanation.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
mindbody
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Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Alyssamd24,

I know how much it hurts him that I thought I was in love with XAP

then I think you shouldn't ignore or avoid the chance to communicate/express/show/explain/ reassure your BH that

the only love between myself and XAP was that we loved how the other made us feel....there was no love

Sure, he may still have his doubts, his insecurities but if in R we are striving for honesty, transparency, and clarity, then I think this is a great opportunity to share your true feelings when you are not in fantasy land. Expecting your BH to instantly feel 100% better would be a mistake, but IMO it's a good idea to let him feel your true love for him in your actions and your words, as long as they match.

I want to explain it to him in a way that will make it better (if that's even possible) but don't know how.

Can you even explain it to yourself? At the time of your A, when you said "I love AP" maybe what was more the truth and accurate was:
"I love feeling desired.
I love feeling alive.
I love feeling sexy.
I love escaping."
etc.
Not that you really loved the XAP. The conversations with XAP that your BH has read, can he now see that those were not really about you loving XAP, but rather about you using XAP and him using you to feel better about yourselves. IMO there's a bit of "pretending" during an A, so that both A people believe they love one another, which you now refer to as "lurv."

Unfortunately for the B, those words can be referenced by our feelings and experiences of love and it's difficult to understand the difference coming from the WS/WSO being said in the A. I also believe that saying "I love you" to the OP can sometimes become necessary to sustain the A or explain away the shame or guilt.

I know we are all adults and we take for granted that we understand what love means. It doesn't mean the same to everyone. After infidelity I wanted to know more about what we both consider real love and if we both want the same kind of love.


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