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User Topic: Limbo Advice Needed - Struggling...
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok so I'm trying to stop spinning my wheels and do what needs to be done. I am struggling with being stuck in limbo. Here's the short of my situation|:

From the beginning of the separation 2.5 yrs ago my BS has said she is not committing to me or talking about the future. If she wants to date, she will date, if she wants to have sex with someone else - she will.

Now, I went through denial, fear, TT, further lying, more denial, fog, more TT, more fear, more lying and I finally feel like I am getting it.

I found out a little over 2 yrs ago my BS was talking and texting another man. I asked her about it, she said I was being silly and they were just friends. She said he didn't want a relationship and she wasn't looking to be with anyone. Yet, there were thousands of texts some going well into the night that screamed otherwise at me. I have always been insecure and jealous and I used these feelings and insecurities to justify my putrid infidelities. I would obsess about it, cried, beat myself up, threw it at her, asked what was going on. At first she said I was being silly, then it turned into anger that I would bring it up and then saying I was being abusive and projecting my behaviour onto her. I truthfully don't know what it is or was about. But I know it went on for over 2 years. She did tell me he wanted to meet with her or take her out and that he had said he wanted to have sex with her. She also said she considered it.

This past week she said she doesn't talk to him anymore. I don't know when this stopped or if it has. I don't know if he's the only one or anything that is going on in her life.

She has said "So everything is OK for you, but not me?!?" (Also this week)

I have betrayed her throughout out 20 year relationship in every way possible. I am disgusted with the things I have done. Nothing I did is, was or will ever be OK.

My struggle is this. Am I wrong to have a problem with her seeing or wanting to see or be with other men? Or women for that matter...

I have told her I am committed to being with her, that she is all I want. She has said her focus is on her now (which is should be). There is to be no talk about the future, no MC together. I am in IC and I believe she is, but I dont know. She is steadfast that nothing in her life is my business anymore. She has said she deserves to be happy and if that includes dating then she will.

I want to prove my committment to her. I want to fix me and be the man I can be and the man that she wants and deserves. I understand she needs her space and boundaries and I cannot rush or put demands or expectations on her. I don't want to obsess or focus on this but I don't want to ignore it either.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She has said "So everything is OK for you, but not me?!?" (Also this week)

It's not OK for either of you. She had a problem with you cheating...I don't blame her. So now you have a problem with HER cheating. I don't blame you!

My struggle is this. Am I wrong to have a problem with her seeing or wanting to see or be with other men? Or women for that matter...

If that's what she wants to do then she needs to D.

I don't understand these years-long limbos in which anything goes (for the BS) but yet no steps are taken to divorce or in any other way move forward. It is my opinion that in these cases, it is the BS who has become the cake-eater. They want the benefits of marriage (financial, maybe, or help with the kids without a formal co-parenting arrangement, maybe even emotional revenge knowing the WS is waiting for them to decide, hoping they'll chose to stay M) while they are out playing single.

I'm sorry for your struggles. But like anyone else, BS or WS, you have choices and decisions. You can choose to let your BS continue to cheat on you and stay in limbo while she does it, or you can file for divorce given that you've been separated for two and a half years with no move toward R. It is up to YOU too...not just her.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Remarried.


Posts: 2247 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartbroken - the trouble is I don't know anything for sure. I know I saw the phone calls and pages of texts going back and forth on her phone records and that's it. I called the number so I know it is a man.

I am stuck making assumptions and she gets infuriated that I am making assumptions and says I don't know what it is or was about. Only that she's not committed to me and it's none of my business...


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 11:05 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with heartbroken.

She's either in or she's out. The whole point of limbo is to create a safe space for the BS to heal and make a decision about the marriage. That is NOT what has been going on here.

What your wife is doing, her actions and what she's saying, that's wayward shit right there. She is not healing, she is damaging both of you and the marriage.

If I'm being very honest, I think your wife had a two year A with this man and she is completely unremorseful.

You need to focus on you right now. Go NC if you have to while you figure this out. (((((LostTime))))) sending strength

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 11:06 AM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so conflicted here. Because she feels I have not demonstrated remorse. Which is true given the TT and continued lying. I feel like I am finally turning a corner. I know I have a long way to go and have wasted these 2.5 years that I could have done the right things when it would have meant more.

I don't know if I'm too late, I don't know what 'he' was to her. I don't know if she's just saying things to hurt me and punish me. I just don't know anything.

She did make up a story at least she tells me it's fabricated: We were having sex and then she interrupts me trying to pleasure her (if you know what I mean) to say she went to a sex club and had sex with two men after we were separated. I lost it, I cried, wanted to hurt myself, asked her all sorts of questions, trying to understand. She had all the answers, how she found out about it, went with some other woman. I still don't know if it's true - I think i do believe that it's made up. I believe this was to punish me to make me feel pain. She said she did it to open the door to just a small percentage of how she feels. But it has stuck with me.

I know I've caused her immeasurable pain and she didn't deserve any of it or have a choice in any of it. I feel what I believe is true remorse, but she is steadfast that I don't show her shit. I admit I do argue and defend and avoid. I know I can't do these things I feel like I'm starting to get there and have to do it and not look for affirmation from her.

I just don't know what to believe.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just to be clear - I am the reason I'm so far stuck in limbo right now. Had I owned up to everything from the beginning and told the truth and tell her everything then I would be so much farther along. I have done horrible damage with the TT and lying over the past 2+ years.

I let fear dominate me, I was selfish, I was a coward. There is no excuse for dragging her through like that.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

More clarification:

I am not sure she has met him or any other man. I do believe she is scared, confused and in horrendous pain. All of this is my fault. I brought this on her.

BrokenButTrying - she has thrown NC at me recently actually. So there really isn't anything but my own mind to torment me. She has judged me and formed conclusions about me and that I will never get anywhere and there's no hope for me, etc... I need to fix and focus on my fear, selfishness,avoidance and lying (although I believe my lying is because of the fear).

I know I am madly in love with her and want her more every day I don't see her and am not with her. I don't know how to let go of this.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found out a little over 2 yrs ago my BS was talking and texting another man. I asked her about it, she said I was being silly and they were just friends. She said he didn't want a relationship and she wasn't looking to be with anyone. Yet, there were thousands of texts some going well into the night that screamed otherwise at me.

Gently, LT. For 2 of the last 2.5 years of this 'limbo' your wife has been having an EA. I say EA because you have no evidence of a PA as yet. That screaming you hear about the texts? That's your gut.

I wonder if the truth from you even right from the start would have made any difference. Your wife is broken.

The stuff about the sex club. Wow! Fabricated or not, that's messed up!

Is trying to R with your wife damaging you or healing you?


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenButTrying - Yes she is but I broke her. I created this entire mess.

Regardless of how I feel about what she may or may not be doing, she has maintained from the beginning she was and is not committed to me or working towards R. My therapist said the same thing that it is an EA, I said it how can it be if she is not committed to me or working towards R?

My BS has maintained that it's none of my business and it's my problem.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LT, I am a mad hatter. Both my husband and I have been unfaithful.

He had his A in 2009, I had mine in 2013. His A damaged me, broke my heart and crushed my soul. He still isn't remorseful after five years. He refuses to answer questions, he blameshifts and gaslights me.

My A was nothing to do with him. Nothing.

Nothing.

I was broken before his A. I remained broken after his A. I didn't heal myself. My husband is not responsible for my actions.

If you blame yourself for your wife's A then surely she is to blame for yours? I can hear you saying 'no way! My A is all on me!' And you're right, your A is all on you. So her A is all on her.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 3:27 PM, June 2nd (Monday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Has she specifically told you that the M is over? Is she proceeding with D?

What lead to this 'limbo'?


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, June 2nd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BBT - No, she is not to blame for my infidelities. She puts blame onto herself, but it was and is all my fault.

This topic is a boiling point and not something she will discuss. It enrages her that I would question anything. She has said anything she does now is outside of the marriage.

From the beginning she has said she will not work on anything with me or discuss the future now. I don't know if she has talked to a lawyer. The marriage is dead anyway - I killed it with everything I did. The only thing she has every said is the above and if I need an answer now, the answer is no.

It doesn't change that I want to be with her. I know this isn't possible now the way I am and the way she is, but it is not even on the table.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This even came up again last night. My BS was having a lot of pain in her neck and back. I wanted to try and help and was able to give her a massage.

She asked me when the last time I had sex was and I replied "3 weeks ago when I came over that night, or however long ago". She said that didn't make sense and she doesn't remember it happening.

So I asked her when she last had sex and if she has been with someone else. She asked me what I stand to gain from asking that question and that she is not committed to me, effectively not answering. She says she doesn't remember when she last had sex.

I don't think she is f'ng with my head intentionally, she has indicated suffering from PTSD because of the trauma from what has happened. There is also pre-existing basis from her childhood. But she seems to block out remembering having sex with me in the short term.

I think this question is very valid:

Is trying to R with your wife damaging you or healing you?

I do not think it is damaging me, but it is not helping me. I do not want to let go. Fear is a huge issue with me.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
devastated23
♀ New Member
Member # 43085
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a BS and felt the need to post because you sound so much like my WS. Please take my post as well intentioned, and it if it feels like a 2x4, I apologize in advance. Mind you my WS and I hadn't married so the perspective is probably very different from yours. IMHO your BS is not cheating. Cheating involves lying and deception and she has made it clear to you that she will date etc. It is your choice to stick around, a choice she wasn't given when you had your A. You have been in limbo for two years because of the continued actions to you took to keep you both stuck. Again, she had little choice in that either. I sense that you know this. As others have said, your only bet is consistent authentic action over time. She very likely hasn't gotten past the TT and remorseless behaviour she has seen since DDay to even start contemplating whether the A is/was a deal breaker for her. And of course if you cannot stomach the idea of your BS dating and being single during separation then it is your choice to remove yourself from limbo. It is your right to heal as well, but please for her sake own that decision. I have the best wishes for you and truly think you are starting to make the changes you should. Keep at it for as long as you can if R is truly what you want.

Posts: 21 | Registered: Apr 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, June 3rd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

devastated23 - thank you for posting your comments on this. I have no problem with anything you have to say even if you were swinging 2x4s freely. I need to work this through.

To be fair, I never accused her of cheating. I am severely torn emotionally and this situation plays into my fears completely. I am very insecure and jealous and I also understand the total contradiction based on my infidelities and betrayals.

I am so sincere about my love for my BS and my desire to be committed to her and pursue R. I just am struggling with where I am at in so many ways because of the way I have mishandled things. I know I cannot turn back the clock.

I think that I have to free fall a bit and find away to release the fear in order to get to the place I need to be in order to even be someone deserving of R. It's the mental jump I'm having a tough time with if that makes sense.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
wishicouldredo
♀ New Member
Member # 43623
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am hesitant, as I'm not sure how to respond without swinging 2x4s. I will try and be gentle. I agree with devastated23. I don't see how this can even be considered cheating.

I feel that not only is your BS being torn apart here but there is a lot of speculation and self pity coming through.

It seems she has been clear and consistent from the beginning and you are separated not actively in R (which would be a whole different story). I have read through some of your profile and posts and it seems you have only just come clean with everything (hoping it's true that she finally does have everything) and continued with an EA (PA?) during the separation while actively pursuing R from her at the same time along with lies and TT.

I'm not sure how you can push a BS into R or expect it under these circumstances. How is she to know what she wants when she is continually being lied to and getting slapped with TT - a new Dday back to square one with every revealed piece. How is she supposed to believe she means anything to you. She needs to find her footing you keep knocking her from and begin or continue her healing. This man, whether he is anything even at all, may be a hinderance in her journey but that is for her to figure out. You need to be consistent for once and put in the work. It will be a long uphill battle and as devastated said it is yours to decide to be in or not. At the very least you have work to do on yourself.

((Gently)) You need to take her down off the chopping block and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Fwiw I don't see limbo but I do see two broken people who need to fix themselves before considering where to go from there. Sometimes we need to be apart and focus inward before allowing someone else in (or back in).
If she is in IC and on an active journey to recovery she will realize this as well. Again, ((gently)) with what she's been through it is unlikely that she will find herself able to give herself to any sort of relationship, unless she's going from one destructive relationship to another and hopefully IC will help her see her self worth and prevent this.

Bottom line: She needs to heal and you are not a safe place for her right now. It is your choice to finally start now and put in the effort or walk away.

((Hugs)) LostTime. Keep moving forward, keep working. I wish you well.


"I'm not where I need to be, but thank God I'm not where I used to be."

"Feelings are just visitors, let them come and go." - Mooji


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jun 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wishicouldredo - Don't worry there is no reason to be hesitant. I thank you for your reply - I can take it. I need to figure things out I don't feel she is cheating either, but it still hurts and she has known it from the beginning.

I feel that not only is your BS being torn apart here but there is a lot of speculation and self pity coming through.

You're right - she has been torn apart and I am making assumptions because I don't really know anything about where she is at, what she thinks, feels or wants other than the few things she told me about it and the frequency and duration of the contact.

I have read through some of your profile and posts and it seems you have only just come clean with everything (hoping it's true that she finally does have everything) and continued with an EA (PA?) during the separation while actively pursuing R from her at the same time along with lies and TT.

Yes - I was in denial or some sort of ignorant state whatever you want to call it. The EA that came to be towards the beginning of the separation was not physical although she claims to be a former AP but has said she lied about her name back when we met and won't tell me who she is. Anyway, that's irrelevant but yes my BS does know everything now or I have given her everything she said she hasn't read it all yet the other day.

You need to be consistent for once and put in the work. It will be a long uphill battle and as devastated said it is yours to decide to be in or not. At the very least you have work to do on yourself.

I am trying to be consistent. I am sick of the lies, I am sick of the fear, I am fully prepared to do what it takes. She will not tell me exactly what she needs and that is hard when she says I'm not doing or showing her anything. I am working on myself and am committed to the process and am in weekly IC. I don't know for sure if she is, but I suspect she is.

I truly am appreciative of what you have said. I am not pushing her to commit to R or anything. I know I'm not at a place for it now either as much as I miss her and it is hard being completely on the outside. For me it is facing my fears in so many ways. I'm afraid to let go, but I have to in order to get better.

[This message edited by LostTime at 12:20 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
wishicouldredo
♀ New Member
Member # 43623
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Done with hesitation, this may get harsh and I do apologize, but bear with me.

but it still hurts and she has known it from the beginning.

((Swinging the 2x4)) This is selfish thinking. Look at what you did to hurt her during your marriage. You need to get some perspective on this.

You're right - she has been torn apart and I am making assumptions ...the frequency and duration of the contact.

The EA that came to be towards the beginning of the separation

I have told her I am committed to being with her

What is the frequency and duration? You said you have phone records but don't know if it's stopped. You've said you don't really know what is going on, but here we are in a selfish thread tearing her apart as a cheater.

Did you tell her you're committed to being with her right from Dday and then proceed with the EA?

She will not tell me exactly what she needs

Again, selfish. YOU need to do the work, not have her do it for you. Maybe she doesn't know what she needs, but effort from you is a start.

I'm afraid to let go, but I have to in order to get better

IMHO I wouldn't say letting go of her is the answer. Realizing, facing and letting go a lot of these issues and assumptions is. However, if you truly love her and want to work towards R, then you need to work hard and show her that every chance you get. It may take years, but look how long and hard you've worked to betray her.

There does seem to be pressure to know and have an answer from her, are you in or are you out - but ((again, gently)) that question should be directed at you, because as far as I've read so far, you've been out.

I think that I have to free fall a bit and find away to release the fear in order to get to the place I need to be in order to even be someone deserving of R

Yes, this. It's called being vulnerable. Probably something you've never allowed yourself to be. To truly love, you need to be open and vulnerable.

You may be turning a corner, but there's a lot of work ahead, don't kid yourself. You need to put in the work every day for the long run. For yourself, but also if you choose to be "in", then you need to work to show her that as much as possible as well.

Just my $0.02. Good luck, I'm rooting for you.



"I'm not where I need to be, but thank God I'm not where I used to be."

"Feelings are just visitors, let them come and go." - Mooji


Posts: 40 | Registered: Jun 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, June 4th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you wishicouldredo.

This is what I need. Thank you for the insights. I have been and am horribly selfish. I did not intend or post any of this to tear her apart as a cheater.

Just to clarify - her phone account is in my name and I was dealing with a billing issue at the time and looking at the account online when I saw the texts to this other number. Every day, some well into the morning 2/3am. I became obsessed with it once I found out it was another man. My BS changed the password on the online account so I no longer have access to it. So I don't know what the frequency was after that point or if it has stopped. There was a face time to her sometime after 3am this March. I only know about because it synced with the ipad at the house.

I am trying to let go of these assumptions and selfish thoughts that really help no one. They hurt her and they hurt me.

I know I was kidding myself before about what it will take. Again, part of my problem. I know it will be a long hard road. But I hate what I have made of her life and mine and I'm not prepared to continue as it has been.

You are very right I have not let myself be truly vulnerable. I've hidden behind lies.

I do have a sense of calm since I finally laid out everything and let go of the fear of that selfish protection. I am so sick of living behind lies and secrets.

that question should be directed at you, because as far as I've read so far, you've been out.

Yes you're exactly right. Everything I have done to betray her has been me being out. Ignoring her needs, lying, cheating, hiding, omitting, avoiding, ignoring, not listening. All of it. I've been half way or more out the entire relationship and I've damaged and destroyed the more precious thing I've ever had or known. Selfish. Stupid.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
Topic Posts: 19

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