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User Topic: Finding proof
Cordelia
♀ Member
Member # 43568
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know this is ignorant and I should do some research but if I did test positive for an STD after 17 years of being in one relationship, would there be any other way to contract it other than from WS? I remember a few years ago when we were trying for infertility treatment the clinic said we had something-or-other, they played it down and just said just had to get rid of it with the meds they gave us. We had been together maybe just about 3 years then but can this type of disease lie dormant? In any case I guess we should have been clear at that point.


Me 54, WS 49
17 yrs tog, no children.
DD 4/14 - OW wrote to me

Posts: 121 | Registered: May 2014
brokenblackbird
♀ Member
Member # 29541
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What type of infection did you have?

If you test positive for STDs after 17 years, the logical explanation is that your husband gave them to you.

You want so badly to believe it isn't happening that you are willing to make excuses for him. Stop. Think about the mountains of evidence piling up. Don't think about what you want it to be, what is the evidence telling you.


Posts: 777 | Registered: Sep 2010
Cordelia
♀ Member
Member # 43568
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't remember what they called it but I know we both had to take medication.
Don't get me wrong - my eyes are wide open but I feel I need to put the proof before him and make him admit it before I just up and go. And it is tricky to go at the moment.


Me 54, WS 49
17 yrs tog, no children.
DD 4/14 - OW wrote to me

Posts: 121 | Registered: May 2014
Chicky
♀ Member
Member # 18622
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It might be a good idea to change your email password.


There's a difference between giving up and knowing when you've had enough.

Posts: 557 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: Somewhere Over The Rainbow
hpv50
♀ Member
Member # 39703
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cordelia,

I empathize with you, a lot, because your WS sounds a lot like my xH.

One of the other posters suggested your WS may be a Narcissist, and that you are in a cycle of abuse. I agree. Just a year ago I would have thought that was far-fetched nonsense. But after reading SI a ton, and receiving a ton of IC, I realize that quite a few cheaters are indeed narcissists, and it's not so far fetched. Why is this relevant? Because if you decide to stay, it will help you deal with him in a way that's healthier for you. And it may just help you build the courage to eventually leave.

So here are a few things that I hope help you, regardless of your decision. Most of it assumes that some sort of PD is at play.

--read and post in the NPD thread on SI. They have a really great group that post regularly and can help you. It's under the "I Can Relate" forum.

--if you are like I was, he has picked at your self esteem for literally years. You doubt yourself often because he twists things, you become confused and may even start doubting your sanity at times. He rarely if ever admits that he is wrong and you are right. He has a very difficult time accepting responsibility for his actions.

--Because of the above, you are now driven to "prove" he cheated and get him to admit fully to what he did. You do so not because you think (or hope) that he didn't cheat, but rather, because you need him finally to admit he's really wrong. Maybe then he'll finally change. But he won't, Cordelia. He'll just keep coming up with more excuses, minimize it, or else twist it around and blame it on you.

--With all the moving around and the loss of your parents, it sounds like you have little outside support. He's counting on that. When you arrive in BC, join an activity or two and get yourself some friends. They will help you draw up the courage to leave if you finally decide to, and to cope if you decide to stay.

--NPDs often only show a glimmer of remorse if they think you are going to leave. He chose you for a reason, and that is because he thinks he can do anything to you and you will not leave. Deep down, he's terrified you will abandon him, as he likely felt abandoned as a child. This is the reason why you saw, for the first time ever, a glimmer of remorse when he thought you might leave.

The bad news? Most NPDs are not treatable because they refuse therapy unless they think their spouse is really abandoning them. If they have a mild version, this may compel them to seek out treatment. If they have a stronger version, they may fly into an unholy rage, take everything you own, and ditch you.

Now Cordelia, putting your assets in your name alone may seem scary, but if you stay with him, you can choose to share them, right? You can also choose to share them if you leave. You seem like a kind person, and if you have control, you can choose to be kind. But if he flies into a crazy fit and yanks out all your assets, he will leave you penniless and powerless for having the audacity to leave. He may even do so just on the threat of your departure. So please, please consider protecting yourself and placing your inheritance in your name.

My summary advice:

--read up on NPD here on SI; maybe get some books on it
--put your assets in your name only
--get some real-life friends for outside support
--please convince yourself you're a good person, and you will be fine without him. Because you are, and you will.

Best of luck,

Hpv


Me: BS - 50; Him: WH - 51, vulnerable NPD
married 19 years, 3 kids
DD1 4/22/13 (hpv diagnosis)
DD2 5/9/13 (gaslighting begins)
DD3 6/30/13 (admits EA)
DD4 7/7/13 admits "trying to date other women" for 3 years

Posts: 177 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: DC
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, June 13th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cordelia, please keep this thread and re-read it over and over. Your thinking may change over time and you may be more ready to accept what all these experienced and good people are saying to you. Something you just wrote stood out to me:

I remember a few years ago when we were trying for infertility treatment the clinic said we had something-or-other, they played it down and just said just had to get rid of it with the meds they gave us. We had been together maybe just about 3 years then

Of course you can't prove anything here, but it does raise the question--was he faithful at that time? If I had been with someone for 3 years and suddenly we both came up positive for an STD, I'd have some questions for my partner.

[This message edited by veronique12 at 9:35 AM, June 13th (Friday)]


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 551 | Registered: Jan 2014
Fire96
♂ Member
Member # 34131
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, June 13th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cordelia,

He may be monitoring your email, or worse, have a keystroke logger on your computer.

Try sending a pre-planned bogus email, to a friend, and see if he replies.

I would, at minimum;

1) Change your password. pronto.
2) Download Adware, Kasperski, or a good virus scanner, and run it for a keystroke logger.
3) Change your email again, after running the virus scanner.

PM Sent.

Fire

[This message edited by Fire96 at 4:09 PM, June 13th (Friday)]


Me, BS-54
WW-49
DD, 1/9/2011

Posts: 179 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Texas
Sumrlady
♀ Member
Member # 4355
Default  Posted: 2:33 AM, June 15th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you do nothing else, please put your inheritance in your name only. You really need to protect yourself.


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover-Mark Twain

Posts: 3138 | Registered: May 2004 | From: N. California
Cordelia
♀ Member
Member # 43568
Default  Posted: 5:18 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all. And Hpv50 I will take your suggestions on board. Have started reading about NPD but need to read more. Out of all the symptoms I would say he only has one, maybe two, of the traits I've seen listed (always has to be right, never apologizes, can be sarcastic, doesn't show much emotion, but definitely none of the others). But I have to say that he always puts himself out to help other people as well. I agree I need to work on myself. One thing I want to do when we get to our new place is to start driving again. I passed my test when I was young and was confident, then didn't drive for a few years and developed a nervousness about it - a sort of 'phobia' but not quite. WS bought me a car a few years ago and I kept trying to drive, had some lessons, went out with him, etc. But I always made excuses and one of his friends even called it a 'flower pot' in the driveway. But in the UK you can get away without driving because of the trains and buses. It is harder here.
So I have plans to 'improve' myself, which makes me feel better. The only thing is that practically every thought about anything that is going through my head is followed by a thought that I can't believe he's ruined everything. I will keep reading and learning here.


Me 54, WS 49
17 yrs tog, no children.
DD 4/14 - OW wrote to me

Posts: 121 | Registered: May 2014
confused615
♀ Member
Member # 30826
Default  Posted: 5:40 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would call the fertility clinic and ask the doctor to check your records and tell you what the infection was a few years ago.

PLEASE protect yourself.


BS(me)42
FWH 45
4 kids
M: June 2001
D-Day: 8/10/10
Status: Reconciling?

..that feeling you get in your stomach, when you heart's broken. It's like all the butterflies just died.


Posts: 7685 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: Indiana
steadfast1973
♀ Member
Member # 24719
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why do you need more proof?


Me- 40- BS Him- 36- WH D-day#1 5/25/09 3 mo. EA d-day#2 11/06/13 Prostitute 11/5/13 in R
"I've seen your flag on the marble arch, our love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah."- Leonard Cohen

Posts: 2286 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Midwest
outtanowhere
♀ Member
Member # 39001
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, June 16th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I developed an awful infection back in 2003. Went to the doctor and was told it was trichamoniasis. My heart stopped The doctor told me that there was a 1% chance that it wasn't because my husband had been unfaithful but, that means that it was a 99% chance that was exactly what happened. I chose to believe that I was that 1%. Then my world imploded last year when I learned of my H's secret life of massage parlors and hookers. I'm embarrassed to tell you that I'm an RN but, it only goes to prove how powerful denial can be. My gut knew but, I couldn't make myself believe that he could do that to me even though he did...over and over again for years. Thing is, from that day in February 2003 until last year that niggling feeling never left me. I thought about it all the time and, of course, it proved to be right all along. You should call the clinic where you were being treated and find out exactly what the diagnosis was and research it.

Please don't turn your head to what proof you already have. It won't go away and, it will come back to bite you. For me, I wasted 10 years trying to get "solid evidence". I'm having a very hard time of forgiving myself for being so blind. You have enough to stand up to your wayward and demand some answers. If he gets mad...tough shit! What's the worse that could happen? He might see for the first time ever that you are not dim and not to be trifled with. Hold him accountable for the hurt he has inflicted on you!


BS - 58
SAWH - 61 multiple encounters with prostitutes and other sex workers
Married 38 years
Dday - 2/19/13 - found the emails
He promised me Heaven then put me thru hell

Posts: 759 | Registered: Apr 2013
Cordelia
♀ Member
Member # 43568
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been unable to get on this site very often but am posting a quick update.

Since last post: emailed OW again but she won't re-send anything or give me any further information. I asked her to describe obvious distinguishing marks on WS's back because, I told her, I was hopeless at bluffing but if she could tell me this I could use it to force a confession. Anyway, she won't communicate further.

We were travelling for two weeks. During this time I forced two conversations with WS. He was extremely apologetic and upset - almost like he was saying sorry for what he had really done - except that he is sticking to his story, sadly. On the first occasion, an evening, I woke up later to find him having some sort of panic attack in the hotel bathroom.

I brought it up again a week or so later. Again, really upset, really sorry, but still won't confess. I have also brought it up again since we have arrived in our new place, but no change.

During this time and up to the present time, he has been watching me - my moods and expressions - and has been very attentive, caring and loving. I challenged him to marry me a few weeks ago and he agreed, and has brought the subject up again this week. Although I wanted to be married for years, now I feel that I want to wait a year or so until I am sure he's settled with less likelihood that this will all end and he will be looking around again.

I have asked him why he suddenly loves me so much and is acting this way, considering he hasn't done so for some time previously, and he says he always loved me, he was just being stupid before.

Having been with him for so many years, I honestly do think he is being genuine. However, I am trying to keep a level head and wait and see what happens. I don't particularly want to me on my own and I would miss him if we split up, but if he ever cheated again that would be it. I can't really forgive him in any case. It would have helped if he would tell the truth (and I have told him this) but I can see that is not going to happen and owing to my being gullible and not too clever at all, I've let go by a lll my chances of putting any sort of truth to which he could not make up a story (albeit a far-fetched one).

I am willing to take a chance and see how things go. However ...
my main difficulty is that I am obsessed with this woman. I can't help myself trying to find her on the internet and on FB, although her FB page is private with no pics or info. I know her first name and the initial of her surname and I know her 'extra' part time job, but am not sure about her main job. I have put the description of her height etc. in case something pops up. It is making me tired and depressed and I feel like I have a heavy cloud hanging over me. It sometimes keeps me awake for hours, depending on when the thought pushes its way to the forefront of my mind.


Me 54, WS 49
17 yrs tog, no children.
DD 4/14 - OW wrote to me

Posts: 121 | Registered: May 2014
shygirl07
♀ Member
Member # 42972
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 16th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cordelia,
In my experience with cheaters (lots of them lol) when the other woman is stepping forward and telling you details of sex, its about 99.99% true.. woman dont just do that to be spiteful ... its probably true I am sorry to say... and I am sorry for the pain you are feeling, I am too familiar with it.. he needs to come clean so you can asses your next move..


me:27
him:30
7 years together
no children

OW was his ex he always convinced was his friend .. moved in her and knocked her up , got together behind my back


Ddays : many in 2009 and 2010
final dday : Sept 2012 after being broken up 3 w


Posts: 73 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: CA
Cordelia
♀ Member
Member # 43568
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, after a long time of obsessing and searching, I did a search of images with her OW's first name and town, and noticed a picture that I had seen on the FB messages that she forwarded to me a couple of months ago and I had deleted at the request of WS, who said they exchanged some messages but the ones she sent me had been faked or partially faked, anyway. So now I have her whole name and have found her on LinkedIn.

Now I have found her I don't know what to do with this information. Not even sure why I needed it really. I already had her email and phone number anyway (but she never told me anything other than her first name).

I am thinking of putting the LinkedIn page in front of WS and demanding to know the truth. He will probably not admit it. Just denial and reverting to saying, as he has done since I found out, that he loves me and wants to marry me. I have known him long enough to feel that this is genuine on his part. However, I still feel he needs to tell the truth before we can move on. He knows I will forgive him, but I think the problem is that he cannot face telling me the truth because, due to the content of the FB messages in particular, he will have a lot of explaining to do. The FB messages show she didn't know, but was suspicious of me. She noticed that relative appeared to refer to both of us, so he told OW that they weren't a close family and that his relative referred to a relationship that had ended a few years before, due to his partner, i.e. sleeping with his best friend. And that if OW wanted him, he was 'all hers'. On the other hand, he kept telling her he was away, so couldn't see her for weeks on end, yet at that point time he would actually have been able to see her more often with no suspicion on my part. So I think she was confused too. Anyway, by admitting the relationship, he has an awful lot of embarrassing explaining to do.


Me 54, WS 49
17 yrs tog, no children.
DD 4/14 - OW wrote to me

Posts: 121 | Registered: May 2014
WhatsRight
♀ Member
Member # 35417
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry that you are in this situation. I'm so glad that you have reached out to the very experienced and compassionate help here on this site.

I do not know you, or your significant other. All I know is what you have written here. Believe me when I tell you – and the others on this site tell you – that you are now in a relationship that will not be successful. Something will have to change. He will need to confess and work his ass off for quite some time to earn the right to reconcile with you. Or, you will need to leave – refusing to accept this very poor excuse for a relationship.

You have recently posted that if he ever cheats again – "that would be it". I wonder what you're feeling was about cheating before this ever happend. Did you feel that you would never tolerate cheating? Now, you are tolerating it. How would "next time" be different?

We are not trying to be mean to you. We are not "taking up" for the other woman. We are simply trying to give you feedback based on our knowledge and experience that we all sadly have.

At this time, you have some years invested in this man – but you are not legally married to him, nor do you share children or assets with him. (If I understand correctly.). I know that it would be very difficult for you to end this relationship. But if you do not end it, you will be in the same place – probably much worse – and you will wake up in five years, 10 years, or 20 years – realizing that much is gone, (including your inheritance) and for what?

Please consider valuing yourself, and determining what you want out of a relationship. Hopefully, fidelity and honesty will be part of that. Share this with your significant other, and find out if he wants to go to the same place in his life that you do. If he says that he does – then demand total honesty – even if it includes a polygraph. If he is not willing to do what it takes to be a part of your life's journey – then make the hard decision to let it go now – rather than much later.

Please value yourself enough to do this. The very best of luck to you. And lots of hugs.


"Noone can make you feel inferior without your concent." Eleanor Roosevelt

I will not be vanquished. Rose Kennedy


Posts: 1889 | Registered: Apr 2012
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She sent me photos of FB messages, which is says are partly true, partly faked.

If you do some research about investigating infidelity, you will see that private investigators and attorneys advise taking anonymous sources and rumors seriously.

Why would this women bother to contact you just to lie. What's in it for her?

I don't know your husband, but let me tell you what my wayward, (a seemingly honest, trustworthy and above reproach good guy sort of guy) did and said when caught.

When I confronted him with an anonymous letter. He lied. He said there must be a mistake, or it was a joke yadda yadda.

He only confessed when I found proof on his phone and computer. Even then prior to seeing the proof he tried to lie.

When I contacted the OWs husband, the OW lied to him. She told her husband I was a crazy jealous spouse.

She said she was simply talking to my husband at the tennis club, nothing more, and I was an insane, madly jealous wife, who saw them, and got crazed.

She also tried to tell him I had her confused with someone else he was likely having an affair with.

The OWs husband himself did not believe me either, until I showed him proof.....texts, emails, and porn videos or herself, she had sent my husband.

My point is, the anonymous letter told the truth, and I was telling the OWs husband the truth.

Most people are reluctant to get involved and tell the faithful spouse, when they know of an affair.

When someone gets involved, in my experience, they are typically telling the truth.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1392 | Registered: May 2014
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