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User Topic: Victim vs Predator
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Personal responsibility. Victimization. I struggle.

As the oldest child of an ACOA with NPD tendencies, I was pushed to "be better", but not given the tools to do so. I developed a wonky sense of right and wrong.

I was "one of those" girls who sought attention and affection everywhere. Didn't matter who. Didn't see it as "bad". Just felt incredibly empty and wanted love. Was love so difficult to offer? Was it too much for a child to ask for? Do I understand how pathetic and shallow that sounds? Absolutely. But that unfortunately, is my truth. Those I got attention/affection from were all ages. Many older. Some probably married. I don't know.

I live every day with the knowledge of what I did, how I did it. I live with the knowledge that I was 15, 16 years old. That I *should* have known better. But that I lacked the HEALTHY aspect of life that so many people obviously take for granted. I carry shame. Guilt. Of my actions. Of the countless, faceless men. Of not knowing if they were single, or married with children at home.

The me now struggles with what I did. But I cannot undo it. Those things happened. Does that make me a monster? A predator? I rebel at that idea. Because I remember what I was thinking and feeling back then. Yet I rebel at the victim aspect. Because I *should* have known better. I *should* have done better. Vicious, never ending circle. Where do I drop the victim aspect and pick up the personal responsibility? I picture my children in my prior position and can't imagine them doing any better than I did in those circumstances. And I don't blame my children. How can I blame myself? But doesn't that "absolve" me? That can't be right either.

How do I apologize to the BW that I cannot track down? The women and children that were hurt by my ignorant actions? I cannot. And would it matter? I'm the demon. I'm the bad girl with daddy issues. F*ck. I'm that girl. And I can't change it. Can't take it back.

Just feel so confused.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Branca
♀ Member
Member # 42837
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Aubrie)))

All of us, in our lives, wear the predator hat in some instances and the victim hat in others. None of us is completely evil or completely good. We're all innocent and yet all guilty too.

Your situation is particularly painful and I don't have any helpful clarifying comments to make. I just want you to know my heart is with you.

I salute you for thinking about it and addressing it in whatever way you can. You are doing the right thing now, and that is what really counts. Your courageous actions to face up to these things as best you can will be the cause of positive effects - for you and your children.

I can see how my mother's attempts to face up to her 'shit' have been and continue to be inspiring to me as a daughter - helping me to address my own issues. She's a human, but one I admire tremendously. And I admire you too. Please feel encouraged.


Me: BW, 36
Him: WH, 36
Married 13 years
2 children aged 9 and 5

DD #1 26 August 2013 - EA on FB and phone with a former flame OW#2 for about 8 months
DD #2 30 April 2014 - EA/PA for 10 months in 2011 with OW#1
Hoping for R


Posts: 119 | Registered: Mar 2014
islesguy
♂ Member
Member # 38090
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie,

First of all, If you were with an older man when you were 15 or 16 that man is the predator and you the victim. Unless you specifically targeted a married man and didn't care that he was married (which you said you don't know) you should not feel guilt or shame. Finally even he was married, he still made his own choice, you didn't force him to do anything.


Me: WH
Father of 3 beautiful girls

* I am a RS (Recovering Scumbag)
* Do as I say, NOT as I did. :-(
* I acknowledge the grace I have received. I know do not deserve it.


Posts: 228 | Registered: Jan 2013
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of us, in our lives, wear the predator hat in some instances and the victim hat in others. None of us is completely evil or completely good. We're all innocent and yet all guilty too.
Trying to wrap my mind around this. People say "predator" and I bristle. Were my actions predatory? I suppose in a round-about way they could be interpreted as that. It wasn't the men, their ages, their status, their anything. It was the feeling attached to them. I suppose its the same idea that the AP could have been anyone. It wasn't the AP that's the draw, but the high.

Did I specifically seek older, married with children men? No. Did I specifically ask and pursue those in relationships? No. That stuff was irrelevant. I was seeking something to fill the hole my dad left in me. Something I had no idea how to fix. Is that "predatory"? Is that monsterous?

Yes. I was there physically. I was doing XYZ. But mentally? Fried. No comprehension of responsibility or consequence. (Also a FOO taught trait.) No real thought of what was *really* going on.

As someone who strives to take personal responsibility for my actions, I'm really, really wrestling with this.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Angry  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm the demon. I'm the bad girl

FTS!!!

Childhood victims of abuse often react this way. I am so, so sorry for what occurred. There's a thread in ICR *Sexual abuse survivors* that you need to check out.

Strength


BH 51, WW 42
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 20(Hers),DS 9 Ours, DGS 3, DGD 1 mo
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 3022 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
HerrTrubheit
♂ New Member
Member # 43627
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Aubrie.

You were victimized and got your circuitry all scrambled. That's plain to see. And while it doesn't absolve your actions as an adult, it does explain them.

It's easy for someone else to say "well you should have done this, should have known that" but without the frame of reference there ain't shit you could have done until you got a big enough bitchslap from Life and the Universe to wake you up.

So now it's time to grow up, finally. Be neither victim nor predator, but person. Be Aubrie. Be whole. You have the information and the realization, now go get the education. Be the best Aubrie you can be.

Because from here on out, there's no more labels. But also there's no excuses. Now that you're awake, any damage you cause while fully aware is... well. That much harder to come back from, let's say.

Be strong and - if you ARE gonna beat yourself up - try to at least wear big squishy gloves while you do it.


Coz it don't bleed, and it don't breathe
It's locked it's jaws and now it's swallowing
It's in our hearts, and in our heads
It's in our love, baby, it's in our bed.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Jun 2014
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 1:32 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Aubrie)) you know I posted something similar recently, WRT feeling ashamed to "face" BW, even virtually. So ICR to pretty much every word you wrote.

And I don't blame my children. How can I blame myself? But doesn't that "absolve" me? That can't be right either.

I struggle with the same thing. Yeah, I didn't ask to be abused and that's not my fault. But I still could've made better choices as an adult. DD is around the age now that I was when I stood up to POS pedophile. I can totally see L'il 20, our DD, doing the same, telling that fucker to get lost, because she's fierce! It's with mixed feelings (including...jealousy I guess?) that I watch her grow up, and wonder, "God, if that hadn't happened to me? How would I have turned out?" Or, if I'd started IC when the repressed memories came rushing back at age 18, instead of waiting till I "hit bottom" at 41...?

You know what they say, though? The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, but the second-best time is now.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1249 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
CheaterMagnet
♀ Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie, love. You may have BEEN that person, but you are NOT that person now. We all have the ability to change and grow. You've taken advantage of that ability and worked hard to become the person you are now. It may sound like semantics, but it isn't. It's how you view yourself at you deepest core. I admire you for wanting to figure out the why and to continue your healing, but I don't want you to continue to think that you are that person anymore. She is still in there and a part of your past, but there is also the Aubrie that we all know and love. The strong, compassionate, honest, and admirable woman that you have become.

I understand the need for that fearless and searching moral inventory in order to grow but I think we can get bogged down and stuck in that abyss of our past actions. Yes, it is us and we can never change it. But it doesn't have to define us.

Keep searching for your whys, but don't forget to forgive yourself as you find it in yourself to forgive others.

A question for you. You give so much here and you are so active. Do you somehow see this as a penance for your past? Do you believe on some level that if you can help enough people here you will somehow be able to "even the score?" Does it help you to forgive yourself when you give back? These aren't meant to be judgmental questions. They are honest inquiries. And yes answers aren't necessarily bad. I just wondered.

Sending you peace and love today and every day.

CM


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie remember when I posted about the shame of my actions? You told me the truth I am not that person anymore. Neither are you. Honey you chased down an emotion without realizing the way you were doing it was not what should ever be done. You had very broken tools and did some fucked up actions but that is not who you are anymore. You know better now, you do better now.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2767 | Registered: Oct 2012
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You told me the truth I am not that person anymore. Neither are you. Honey you chased down an emotion without realizing the way you were doing it was not what should ever be done. You had very broken tools and did some fucked up actions but that is not who you are anymore. You know better now, you do better now.

This.

Also at 15 and 16 years of age in any sexual or romantic interactions with older men, you are the victim. You were a child!


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1258 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

54, don't know that I'm ready for ICR. Yes. Fear.

20, I *so* get that feeling too. The mixed feelings of watching our children. And also fearful that I'm somehow screwing my kids up and creating FOO issues for them.

Do you somehow see this as a penance for your past? Do you believe on some level that if you can help enough people here you will somehow be able to "even the score?" Does it help you to forgive yourself when you give back?
Hadn't really put tons of thought into "why" I'm as active as I am.

Have a hard time doing things halfway. Had a lifetime of seeing others do it. Was pushed to do better. Be better. Why would healing from infidelity be any different? Been a screw up enough. This has been my life for what, almost 3I years. Reading. Posting. Studying. Putting into action. If there was ever anything i need to put my heart and soul into, it's this.

Penance or evening the score? Hadn't thought of it that way. I dont believe anything I can do will erase or even the score. It happened. There is no going back. I think if there was a way to do that, someone would have figured it out, marketed it, and made a fortune.

Attempting to help others along the way? Sure why not. I'm messed up. They're messed up. Why not share what works for me? Giving back feels right. Helping and supporting others. If I am able to get my act together, anyone is. I support and encourage that fully. Are you trying to ask if it's a validation kick for me? Because that's totally not how I mean to use SI. If being here has led folks to think that, I'm horrified. It's not my intent to use SI as a replacement for AP or a "fix".

Unagie I guess I don't know what to forgive. Am I forgiving a naive child? Or am I attempting to forgive a predatory monster? Isn't there a difference? And does the difference matter? Forgiving a child should be easy. A monster, not so much. It's as difficult as attempting to forgive the woman who looked QS directly in the eyes as he lovingly handed her an armful of roses, completely ignorant of the fact she had just finished a Skype session with AP4.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you define yourself NOW?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5091 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you define yourself NOW?
*sigh* Frickin' A I hate these types of questions because the answers feels like gloating or some bs.

You mean as a person? I don't know. There's a bunch of little pieces of me that I've avoided putting altogether into a complete person because it just seems...weird.

Give me a minute. I'm thinking.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 4:10 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:16 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

because the answers feels like gloating or some bs.

Why?

Just another thing to ponder on while you are thinking


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5091 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
CheaterMagnet
♀ Member
Member # 33581
Default  Posted: 4:31 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you trying to ask if it's a validation kick for me?

HELL no! I'm actually horrified that it came off that way. I just meant did it give you a feeling of being a better person. A healthier person. Often times people who have done terrible things spend the rest of their lives trying to help others avoid those choices. It helps them overcome their feelings of self hatred and disgust for their past choices and actions. I was just wondering if there was some of that in your actions here.

Please know Aubrie, that I think the world of you and of the help you give here. All of you WS who stick around and try to help others have my utmost respect and gratitude. It takes gigantic balls to own your shit publicly (even if this is an anonymous forum) and to keep using your experiences to try to help others.

And for the record, I have met true evil. I know it well and have lived very close to it. I know evil exists and that evil people exist. I also know that true evil is RARE. I haven't seen anyone actively posting on here that trips my evil-meter." Yes, you have done things in your past that were bad, terrible, hurtful, selfish and fucked up. BUT, you are NOT evil, nor have you ever BEEN evil.

Absolution is also possible. You can be "washed clean," of your prior acts. Yes, they will still exist. You can never erase them, but you can recover from them and be absolved.

I hope I'm making more sense here. I meant my post to be positive and affirming, not bashing or shaming.

(((((Aubrie))))


If Happy Ever After did exist, I would still be holding you like this.
All those fairly tales are full of shit.
One more fucking love song I'll be sick. ~ Maroon 5

Posts: 1037 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Kailua-Kona, HI
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why?

"Validation". Tool of the devil. Past voices. Oh you know the drill. Its just incredibly uncomfortable saying *good* things about myself. Anytime I pop off with something good about myself it's cloaked in humor or sarcasm. I can glance at it, but looking it eyeball to eyeball is uncomfortable. Eventho the good is...well...good.

Still thinking. Scared really. I feel like there's a wrong answer and I'm going to be the one to say it.

Who am I NOW?

A woman. Trying to grow up, way later in life than many others. She's entering a new world of adulthood with fear but optimism.

A mother. Trying her best to raise her children differently. To love them with unconditional love. To be patient with them. To let them be children for as long as they want. Without expecting too much of them too early. She uses her last as an example of what not to do.

A wife. Who loves her husband fiercely with a new love she's never possessed before. She's realized how selfish and cruel she was and has learned how to put his needs before hers. She compromises and feels no resentment when the answer is "no" or "later". She feels and accepts his love, even if she doesn't fully understand his process or reasons.

A friend. She listens and really cares. The relationships are not all about what she can get out of them, but ahat she can put into them. Her needs are not in the forefront. Her drama is not the leader. She can sit back and listen, and comfort, and hug. (That's still so weird.) She sets her day aside to help when they're in a bind, while not jepordizing her own life and boundaries.

A sister. Still working on that. Building a relationship never had before. Opening up and sharing stories and hurts. Working thru and healing from. I love her. She loves me. We work together. Even when we piss one another off. Because that's what family does. Works thru things. Talks. Shares.

A daughter. Estranged from her parents. Who wants a relationship with them. But will not sacrifice herself or her immediate family of husband and children to get it. She is a person to. Worthy of love. Even if they wont give it.

A human. Who loves other humans. Who tries to use her gifts to share with others. Her gift is not just for her, but for those she is surrounded by. She shares her music and art. She shares her words and her tears. She is vulnerable. She is honest. She is smart. She is silly. She's irrational at times and addicted to chocolate. But she's human. And that's always a good thing.

Now I'm crying and I don't know why.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

did it give you a feeling of being a better person. A healthier person. Often times people who have done terrible things spend the rest of their lives trying to help others avoid those choices. It helps them overcome their feelings of self hatred and disgust for their past choices and actions. I was just wondering if there was some of that in your actions here.
Ok I see what you're saying. I think to a degree you're sorta right. Interacting with others shows me how far I've come. However, I don't feel the need to save others. I can walk away from a thread or a person and feel sad that they don't "get it", but I don't let it eat at me. Its their choice to be destructive. Not my issue, not my life. Now, at one time, I couldn't say what I just did above. But I can now. So, progress.

Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the confusion.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That was an awesome post

Did any of that read victim or predator to you?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5091 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No. It doesn't.

I can't breathe, but my head feels lighter. Weird day.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6321 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:08 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is ok to drop the labels of our past and see who we are now. It is obvious that you see that clearer than you think. This is a good thing.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5091 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Topic Posts: 45
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