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User Topic: What Have I Done?? She Said "I L Y" but Where Am I Really??
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 6:00 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what is happening. I don't know what just happened.

My BS let me in last night. She had a lot to drink and we had sex. She told me she loves me. I said I didn't believe her I told her not to play games. She said she loves me, over and over and over. The connection, the way she kissed me everything is still there. She said she needs time but she also said she'll never admit to any of it after the fact.

I held her I didn't want to let her go. I told her over and over again how much I love her and I will love her forever. I just held her for a couple hours while she slept, kissing her head I couldn't believe what had happened. A glimmer of hope. Something real. Now it comes crashing down...

Then I'm going to leave and I do something stupid her phone is there. I manage to get into her phone and go look to see if she had been texting the OM she was talking to that I mentioned in my last thread. Why? Why? Because I'm broken. I'm selfish. I wanted to know if I should believe what she said to me or not.

Now I just want to make clear we are separated and I moved out over a month ago. I am miserable without her and I have told her as much. She has never wavered from the fact that we're not together and she isn't committed to me. I want to make this clear. I have tremendous issues around this point and coupled with what she told me last night I was selfish. F!!k

Anyway there was a photo sent to her by some other man. But no conversations. Then i find a thread with the OM hes in her contacts as a woman's name. I knew she had been texting/talking with him for a couple years now. She told me last week that she doesn't talk to him now. I don't know if that's true the last of the conversation was last month. It turns out they did meet, I don't know what happened. He asked her if she wanted to get together again, she said "do you? with a shy face".

I don't know wtf is going on. I'm numb. I don't know where I am. I don't know what to believe. I went from euphoria of believing she actually still loves me and there's hope if I f@#king get my shit together to violating her privacy for my own selfish gain only to have my fears realized??

So I asked her wtf it means. She's not in any state to discuss it, I broadsided her because of the intense emotional reaction from seeing this stuff. Ugh what do I do!? What have I done!?

I don't know what to do with this information. I need to fix my shit. She needs to heal. I won't rush her, but how do I not constantly think about other men. Whoever this other guy is sent her a photo of himself this week for fks sake. I don't know how to deal with this.

I've caused this. It's such a f##king waste. I'm so angry at myself. She's terribly hurt from my infidelities and betrayals, she's clearly confused, I've been a selfish ass and now I don't know what to do. I feel like I'm being hit from all sides and just spinning. I'm sorry for the long post...I'm rambling I don't know what to feel. I don't know what to think. I have nowhere to turn but here.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You did not cause her to cheat.
Just as she didn't cause you to cheat.
You did what sounds like 'trauma-bonding'.

(& I think you're now in what we call the Madhatter's club)

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=509142


Posts: 6646 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 6:45 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It isn't cheating based on her position - She has never said she would work towards anything including reconciliation. I will not 'crucify' her as a cheater. That is my hat to wear. She didn't ask to be here. I put us here.

I don't know what it all means. It means she is clearly confused and doesn't know what she wants and only told me she still loves me because she was drunk.

Now she's pissed at me and thinks I came over there with an agenda. I just want to be with her. I came to see her to have a chance to be with the woman I love to try and connect with her. Now she's furious and I've ruined the more meaningful couple hours I've had with her in over 2 years.

I'm just so angry - I'm a stupid, selfish A$$hole.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
tfkeel
♂ Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 6:53 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm a BS, didn't see any stop sign.

I want you to know that I never stopped loving my WS, not from day 1 until the day she died.

We also cohabited, but there came a point about 6 months after DD where I stopped being intimate with her. I simply had to protect myself from the pain of it all.

It was very enticing to think about companionship with another woman. It didn't have much to do with sex, although I wanted sex, but it was more about filling up the hole that her affairs left me with.

I couldn't recharge by having intimacy with my own wife because that brought back all that pain.

It was very tempting to confide and spend time with other women because it would have been painless and would have restored my sense of manhood.

I never did this but I recognize how incredibly vulnerable I was and how it would have taken very little effort for another woman to draw me into her bed and into her "web".


Posts: 525 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It isn't cheating based on her position - She has never said she would work towards anything including reconciliation.

Nor has she worked towards divorce.
With all due respect LostTime, until a divorce is happening, it's cheating.
I'm a stupid, selfish A$$hole.

Aren't all we waywards, including your wife?
From my perspective your wife is really good at cake eating. Living the single life, not making the decision to divorce, hence keeping you on a string as fallback.
That's wayward behaviour right there.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please - I don't want this to be about what she is or isn't doing. I am not here to debate what or how she is perceived. She does not deserve to be judged here- She is an amazingly strong woman to keep on going given what I have dumped on her in our marriage and the last 2 years of separation.

No I don't feel a need for stop signs - I need all perspectives. I can take the 2x4s I need to work on myself which includes that how I see things can be incredibly flawed.

I recognize how incredibly vulnerable I was and how it would have taken very little effort for another woman to draw me into her bed and into her "web".

tfkeel - you're right. She is vulnerable. I don't know how she feels or what she wants. All I know is I destroyed her and her world and beliefs with my actions and she needs to heal from this. I need to fix myself for my kids and to be someone I am proud to be let alone hopefully someone she could even consider as a safe partner in life again.

I have made sex with me painful for her. I have taken it away and ruined it. She has to go through so much just to even consider being with me. I think about her constantly, although she will never believe it. This is very difficult because I put alot of weight on the connection I have with her sexually. It is a big part of how I feel loved.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SlowUptake

Nor has she worked towards divorce.
With all due respect LostTime, until a divorce is happening, it's cheating.

I think standing up for herself and removing me from our home and having a physical separation is definitely a path towards divorce. I have no idea if she has seen a lawyer. She could have papers drawn up and I could be served any day for all I know.

There is zero discussion about the future. She has made it clear her focus is her and her healing.

I know she is a long-time lurker here on SI. I don't know if she posts. I don't have any information on her inner circle and thoughts. I have built these huge walls around her with my actions over the last 20 years. My reality is my fault alone.

I am just so unsure of everything. Granted, clearly she has some feelings towards this OM to continue a relationship of whatever form for over 2 years. She has said she doesn't talk to him anymore which could very well be accurate. No it doesn't mean she won't talk to him again. He is still a contact in her phone and he said something to the effect of he'll wait until she figures out the situation with her 'ex' (Me) So he is obviously waiting for her.

I mean I should be elated - she told me repeatedly she loves me last night and how much she loves me and here I am not knowing what it all means. Instead I'm numb and feel detached. It means I'm a selfish stupid A$$ who threw away something beautiful and meaningful in her love, trust and respect and I need to prove I deserve her back.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please - I don't want this to be about what she is or isn't doing. I am not here to debate what or how she is perceived. She does not deserve to be judged here- She is an amazingly strong woman to keep on going given what I have dumped on her in our marriage and the last 2 years of separation.

Gently, respectfully, there is no judgement about her. Especially none from me. You are right in that she's an amazing woman. However, just based on the facts that you stated, IMHO she and you have entered the MH club. EA? PA? Doesn't matter. Based on what you said, doesn't sound like either of you were working towards D including being separated. Doesn't sound like there has been any communication about a D. A separation is not an excuse or reason.

And clearly in your writing you are feeling the effects of being an MH. You now have two fronts to fight on and you have explained how you feel about both of them. You want to take the blame because you caused the damage. She's in terrible pain. Maybe due to that pain she has now inflicted pain upon you. Now you feel terrible pain too. The definition of MH is there.

Your fight is now twice as hard. Don't stop continuing to work on you. That's the only part you can control.

eta - typos

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 7:30 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2200 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please - I don't want this to be about what she is or isn't doing.

Really, even though your post is all about how her actions are affecting you?

She has never wavered from the fact that we're not together and she isn't committed to me. I want to make this clear. I have tremendous issues around this point and coupled with what she told me last night I was selfish. F!!k

I don't know wtf is going on. I'm numb. I don't know where I am. I don't know what to believe. I went from euphoria of believing she actually still loves me and there's hope if I f@#king get my shit together to violating her privacy for my own selfish gain only to have my fears realized??

I won't rush her, but how do I not constantly think about other men. Whoever this other guy is sent her a photo of himself this week for fks sake. I don't know how to deal with this.

She has never wavered from the fact that we're not together and she isn't committed to me.

Then why not divorce? That would be the honest and authentic thing to do, as many a BS can attest.

I think LostTime that you need to let go of the outcome, detach from your wife for both your sakes and work on yourself for you.

Wishing you luck.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yearsofpain25 - How I am feeling is a direct result of my selfishness. Yes I feel pain - yes I do feel she has done and said things to me to make me feel pain, I also don't help myself by feeling that I deserve to feel pain.

Based on what you said, doesn't sound like either of you were working towards D including being separated. Doesn't sound like there has been any communication about a D.

I have asked her about D and she said the marriage is dead. Filing for a divorce could happen anytime and she hasn't wanted to spend the money. Her focus isn't on filing papers it's on her healing now.

I have said I want to be with her and love her and am committed to her. I've also continued acting out and negative behaviours for the first half of the separation. I do not want to divorce my beautiful BS. I have given her every reason not to want to work on anything with me and she has made it clear she won't go to MC or discuss anything future oriented. We have a rough visitation agreement in place for my access to see the kids. I have not contacted a lawyer even though my IC is pushing me to. I don't want to fuel any fire.

SlowUptake -

Really, even though your post is all about how her actions are affecting you?

Yes - I know. Another selfish post.

How can I detach from her?? I have to fix my sh!t. After hearing her tell me she loves me last night/early this morning how can I ignore that?!?


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
redsox13
♂ Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't agree that this is cheating on her part. Separation is certainly Limbo, and there may be grounds rules and understandings between the spouses and there may not.

If my wife and I separated I would certainly feel free to date unless the separation was done so with the understanding that it would ultimately lead to reconciliation.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 264 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
JaneDeaux
♀ Member
Member # 42630
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would perceive it as cheating. In fact it's pretty much play-by-play what happened to my marriage, with the exception that DH doesn't know about my trip down infidelity lane. I'm guessIng your wife used the same illogical thinking when making her decision to seek comfort outside of your marriage as many reactionary MadHatters do. Unless the ground rules include the okay to see other people during a separation, it's cheating. Certainly it feels that way to you, Lost Time., and your reaction was proof of that. Don't minimize your feelings.


We must embrace pain and burn it as fuel for our journey. Kenji Miyazawa

Posts: 64 | Registered: Mar 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

redsox13 - I feel the way I feel and that is my own problem and issue to deal with. I am not here to debate where it is cheating or not.

The most important thing to me is she told me she loves me for the first time in years. And now I taint that with this bullshit I can't wrap my head around.

There is no negotiation on terms - She said from the get go she is not committed to me, if I am committed to her I will have to deal with it.

JaneDeaux -

Unless the ground rules include the okay to see other people during a separation, it's cheating.

She told me that if she wants to be with someone she will. I cannot change the way I feel and I will not label her.

I am more trying to understand what she feels. And what it all means.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Im going to be honest and I apologize if I offend. Your ex is cake eating. What you did to her is horrible yes. What she's doing to you and you are allowing is equally wrong. She loves you but cannot say it unless intoxicated. She invites you over though she has made it clear she does not want a relationship. She is speaking to other men and hiding their names under fake profiles but telling you she loves you. Lets not call it wayward behavior lets just call it what it is fucked up and you are allowing it. My ex is good at this too and I am to blame for a lot of my own pain at his hands because I can't seem to detach. Do what you need to heal and start detaching from her a bit. Either she loves you and wants to try or she wants to divorce. Limbo can be painful but she's taken some steps to move past limbo. One of you needs to start the conversation about where this is going. Neither of you can heal this way.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."


Posts: 2762 | Registered: Oct 2012
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unagie

Inviting me over isn't like it was a date. She wanted to get off. I want her constantly and can't have her. I don't believe that her allowing me to come to her was anything more than her wanting to get off and I was the easiest choice. She did tell me she loves me and I do believe it was true feelings. She did say she wanted me.

I don't want to allow anything, but it is not my choice if I want to be committed to her that is my choice and I have to deal with whatever she is or isn't doing. She does not want to commit to anything with me. I didn't commit to her during our marriage and if I am to get another opportunity I am not going to make the mistakes I did in the past - she is worth everything. I don't know if this is to make me feel pain or if she is trying to figure out what she wants. I don't know anything other than what she tells me which is very limited.

I don't know what is true and what isn't I don't know which was is up right now. I am just trying to hold it together until this afternoon.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 1:29 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everyone....

LostTime is a WS. Period. Please get back to supporting him and leave all the Madhatter talk out of it.

Quit focusing on what hat he's wearing and give the man some support. Please


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 198309 | Registered: May 2002
Christy516
♀ Member
Member # 42546
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your wife has clearly statedshe will not work on your M. She does not want the M. You say she hasn't officially filed for D because she doesn't want to spend the money. One piece of advice i see on here frequently is "let go of the outcome". Everything you say you are doing is all designed to get her back, not to make you a better you.
My advice is to let it go. File for D. And then concentrate on healing yourself. Who knows? Maybe if you truly make yourself a better and safer partner your W may see you as an attractive option in the future. Right now all she sees is the same man with the same story. Until you let go she will never see you as anything more than who you have been.


Me: 44
Him: 39
DD: 1/5/14 (the final one)
Trying to recover

Posts: 161 | Registered: Feb 2014
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostTime,

There is so much gray in all this.

What stands out to me is that while she invited you over, said she loved you, and had sex with you, she "had a lot to drink". Had she been 100%, stone-cold sober, I seriously doubt any of that would have happened.

So it seems the plan is divorce. Which means you *both* need to put distance between yourself. No more glorified booty calls. That just muddies an already confusing situation. Which is obvious here...

If she wants healing, Yay. If not, you owe it to yourself to work on yourself. Get healthy. With or without her.

Take care.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne


Posts: 6309 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 6:10 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Deeply Scared - Thank you.

Christy516 - I want to be a better me. I do not want to be the selfish POS I see in the mirror. I want to be giving and never ever go back to where I was.

I love my wife. She has said today that love doesnt matter. And i'm focusing on what she said not what is important. I realize she never would have said it if she wasn't drunk but I don't want to ignore it. it has been over two years since I felt that from her. I don't want to let it go. It was like I was given a sip from the holy grail and now just have to forget it.

I just keep crying. I hate what I have done to her. I hate the pain, humiliation, devestation, isolation, she feels that she doesn't matter. She doesn't see remorse from me. All of this I have put on her and yet she told me how much she loves me last night. I hate that I have wasted our love, destroyed it into where it is "irrelevant" to her now.

I want to clarify. I don't know if she has seen a lawyer. You're right she doesn't want to work on the M or anything now. I have to work on me, I know I do, I'm not stupid. I have to do fix and find me.

I'm so afraid to let go. I really don't know what to do. I refuse to give up. How can I do that without giving up?


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
LostTime
♂ Member
Member # 42018
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, June 7th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aubrie - Thank you for your response.

Yes 50 shades of grey. And I have been "50 shades of stupid" as my BS has said.

You make it sound so easy. I don't know what she truly feels or thinks about direction. She has said she's "not going to make decisions for the future and know what she'll want or where she'll be." She said to me "you are free to walk away, that is your choice"

This was today.

There is too much I don't know and don't understand. I damage myself making assumptions and hinder my progress. But I have huge fear of the unknown. I don't know how to let go of that.


Me: WS - 38
Her: Beautiful, amazing BS - 38
5 beautiful amazing kids ages 2 - 14.
Separated and hoping for reconciliation one day.

Posts: 139 | Registered: Jan 2014
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