My WS says that she started to pull away from me about a year ago, which is also when she first felt an attraction to her AP. He is a spinning instructor and she went to his class 3 or 4 times a week. She says he initiated flirtations at class and then pursued her with text messages. She claims that she was not happy with our marriage due to feeling neglected and lonely and when someone else showed her attention it was impossible to resist. The A became physical about 5 months ago. She admitted that they had sex twice but met on many other occasions to talk and kiss in his car. Hearing these words was painful beyond description. She and I have been together since we were kids and we have only been with each other our entire lives. Until now.
Another significant fact is that I have been battling severe depression for the past 6 months. It appeared to come out of the blue and it hit me very hard. I could not put my finger on any 1 thing that triggered it but I know that the strain in my marriage was part of it. This depression caused me to appear weak, needy and pathetic. I needed the emotional support of my wife, the person who has been in my life for 29 years, and she was not there for me. Her distancing at a time when I was suffering so much made my recovery almost impossible. I could not understand how she could abandon me emotionally during the most difficult time of my life. For 29 years I have been an alpha male to my entire family and hers. But depression is an evil beast and it turned me into someone else. During this time I smothered her with questions about "us" and pleaded with her to love me. But I know now that she was in the fog during this entire period. I also know that my attempts to bring her closer only served to push her farther away. Finally we got the meds right and my depression started to lift in mid April. As I got stronger I began giving her more space. I was more engaged in my work and traveled on business quite a bit. I was really getting better and showing her the old me. Then came Dday. My sleep, appetite and mood all plunged as I tried to process what she had just told me. This news can send the healthiest person into a deep depression.
Her AP was the one who ended it. His "girlfriend" saw text messages between him and my wife on his phone and he told my WS that he could no longer see her and that she was no longer able to attend his spin class. My WS waited for 2 weeks before confessing to me. During this 2 week period I could tell that something was really bothering her. She was crying for no reason and telling me that she thought she was getting depression. During this I was comforting her as much as I could which made her feel tremendous guilt. She said things like, "You should not be comforting me, I was not there for you." I simply told her that I forgave her and that I did not want to see her suffer like I had. Looking back, I believe that she was in withdrawal from the affair ending.
During the first few days following Dday she showed some genuine remorse and a desire to R. She said things to me that made me feel her love for the first time in over a year. It felt great to feel wanted again but there were also feelings of rage, sadness, shock, jealousy etc.. that I had to deal with. I hit her with question after question and said things to make her feel even more guilty. Soon she began to pull away again, refusing to talk or answer any more questions. It has been a roller coaster from hell for both of us. It has now gotten to the point where I am the one chasing her again! She just wants to get away from me and I just want to hear her tell me how sorry she is for hurting me and that she wants to commit to rebuilding our marriage. Unfortunately, I think it's highly unlikely that my marriage is going to survive. I read the 180 last night and I have been breaking virtually every rule for the past 4 months. She is acting as if our marriage means nothing to her right now. Here is what has happened since Dday:
My WS sent him a text message after she told me letting him know that I knew the truth. A "heads up" of sorts.
My WS gave me his phone number so I could call him. Which I did. He answered my questions and apologized.
My WS told me she confessed because she wanted to work on us. Her AP was surprised that she confessed because he says that his girlfriend was not going to tell me.
My WS has engaged in TT over the past 12 days. But overall has been willing to answer my questions.
She says that she will not contact him again and that if he tries to contact her that she will tell me. I do not believe her. She clearly has a strong emotional bond with him.
She refuses to stop going to the spin studio where he works. She is not going to attend his classes but will not even consider switching to another studio. Yesterday, she was planning on attending a class at 10am. The problem is that the AP teaches a class at 11am and it is virtually 100% certain that they would have seen each other. She did not tell me or ask me in advance if that would be ok. When I saw her preparing to go to that class I told her that if she did, our marriage was over. She did not go but she was furious all day.
She will not agree to full transparency on phone, email or account for her time. She says that she will not live that way and strongly resists any hint of being controlled by anyone. She says I am going to have to trust her or leave her. She is very hostile and disrespectful to me about all of this.
She will not agree to couples counseling. She says that she will do IC when she is ready though.
She currently is not sure if she wants to try and R. She is distancing herself from me in every possible way and I am pursuing. This stops today. It is not working and it is reducing my self esteem.
I still have very strong feelings for her. In many ways I am disgusted with myself about that. I still want to believe we can R. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that it may be too late. I fear she is too far gone and that I will never be able to forgive her unless she is 100% committed and willing to earn back my trust. And right now, she is no where close to that. She has been in my life since I was 13 and I have never imagined a future without her. Waves of sickening disbelief keep surging through me that this is really happening. I have read advice on marriagebuilders.com that says we should spend as much time as possible together during her withdrawal. And that I should be careful not to do anything to upset her during this time. I have tried that and it is literally impossible. The tension between us is so thick and the emotions are raw that each time we are together we are both miserable. She is not sure if she wants to be with me right now. I don't think there is anything I can do until she decides what she wants. Part of me wants to file for D and just move on. Part of me thinks that I should try the 180 first. I know I cannot keep doing what I have been doing. She has enjoyed the safety net of knowing I am here if she wants me. Am I just fooling myself to think that there is any hope?
Sorry for what has happened, but first thing you need to do is stop beating yourself up. And you would not be normal if you had not lost a bit of self esteem over this.
You will get a lot of different opinions here about the 180. It is meant to heal you, so maybe you can do some of that, but I believe it works best if you have a spouse who wants to R.
You have one good thing here. The AP has been caught by his girlfriend and has decided to dump your wife, AND he was cordial and apologetic to you on the phone. You could probably get his ass fired so maybe that was why he was so nice but at least he did not tell you that he had any intention of continuing the A. That is a GOOD thing.
Since you basically know all the details now, MC probably would be helpful, but it appears you are NOT going to "nice" your WW back into the marriage.
Only you can decide how much pain you can take and you have to maintain your emotional and physical health. There is a saying you may see on the board here that "you must be willing to end the marriage in order to save it"
If you look at the other threads you will see just how much pain a WW or WH can inflict. You should see an attorney so you have your ducks lined up, and at some point you can give her the preliminary papers.
If you are sure the A is over, and it appears you are right, your biggest danger is that your wife will replace the AP she lost with another one. She is certainly ripe for that.
You have to make some tough decisions but you can and will survive.
Have you checked out the articles in the Healing Library? Chock full of great information, and knowledge is power.
First of all, those who have nothing to hide hide nothing. Your wife lost her right to privacy when she chose to have an affair. If she is not willing to be completely transparent with her phone, emails, social media, etc, I'd consider that a huge red flag.
Keep in mind cheaters lie and lie and lie, and her "word" means nothing at this point. She must earn your trust back, it will take YEARS.
I would make a requirement of R, if you decide that's your path, to end attending ANY classes at that studio. Time to find a new one.
Like the above poster stated, you cannot "nice" her back into the marriage. She's in control, you MUST put yourself in the driver's seat. She is playing a game with your life, draw the line in the sand.
Marriage counseling will not do any good if she still has her head up her ass, and certainly by the sound of your post, she does.
Please make an appt. with your doctor and get tested for STDS. Also check on some anti-depressants if you are not already taking them to help you cope through this nightmare.
I am going to bump up two threads, one called Before You Say Reconcile, the other Tactical Primer. Excellent reads and maybe they will give you some clarity.
There is also a Betrayed Men Only thread in the I Can Relate forum, many SI veterans there who might be able to help.
Post often, read as much as you can, there is a book called Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass that might be helpful for your wife if she is willing to do the work.
Really the only thing you can do to save your marriage at this point is the 180 but you have got to be tough. It seems counter-intuitive but that is really what it takes. If you appear needy and week and willing to do anything to win them back it will just make things worse as long as she is in this state of mind.
Start a really hard 180 and see an attorney. Let her know you have seen an attorney. You need to do this anyway to protect yourself financially. The appointment can just be for advice, but she doesn't need to know that. If she starts softening and acting like she wants to reconcile, give her the list of things you expect. IE., total transparency, all passwords to cell, internet, etc., absolutely NO CONTACT with OM and MC. If she want IC also, that is up to her, but IC would probably not be a bad idea for you also. Sometimes a MC can do both. Ours does, but it takes the right counselor.
So sorry you are in such pain. It is horrible I know. It will get better no matter what.
Look my man, OM is nothing more than a predator. Why the hell do you think is career choice is teaching "Spin classes" ? It gives his predatory ass access to women. Many of whom are just getting back into shape and their self esteem is low. He knows just what to say and how to act to get them into the sack. Your WW thinks she is special. But trust me, its not the OM's first time at the dance. Most likely he has a few women on the side. Married women are great to these types of assholes. They get to have NSA sex for as long as they can. When it gets too hot in the kitchen, they cool it down until the coast is clear. Trust me this A is far from over, its just on the back burner for a little bit. If you let her to keep calling the shots, OM is gonna be back with a vengeance. Face facts bro, your W is gone and has been replaced with a WW. One who does not have your best interests at heart. You need to make a stand now !!!! You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by employing this strategy. If your afraid of losing her I must remind you that she is already gone.
first, dont expect that your wife is being "honest". the trickle truth is probably still not over. if she says they had sex 2x, tis probably closer to 10. get an STD test. she will say they used condoms. they all do. its almost always not true. require her to get one too. then in several months get another each, some things show up later.
the full transparency with phone, email accounts, etc can NOT be negotiable. its a requirement. she has no rights to keep secrets, especially after proving that she cant be trusted. a brutal truth but a truth none the less.
counseling isnt an option either. she needs it. you need it. and you need it together.
she can NOT be trusted to be in contact with the other man (nor can he be trusted). if this class is so vital for her then she can find somewhere else to do it. thats a consequence of her actions. you wouldnt send an alcoholic into the bar to hang out all day, would you? dont put her in the same position with OM or else there is a risk the affair just moves underground and becomes more secretive.
try to eat, drink, sleep right. its going to be a long battle and you need to take care of yourself.
from 09/11 - 05/13
2 ONS, 10 sexting partners, 1 LT EA/PA
??/06/13 DD/1 - admits to LT EA, begin false R.
01/13/14 DD/2 - LTA was PA.
01/18/14 DD/3 - sexting 5 guys.
01/19/14 DD/4 - 2 ONS with different guys
I can't speak for others....only myself....and the thousands of stories that I have read here in the last 4 years. But when you think about what is being preached here, it really does make sense. The majority of the advice you will receive, will seem blatantly obvious---don't compromise your morals; don't tolerate poor boundaries and behavior; be authentic, and expect authenticity from your partner, etc.
These are all things that should be a GIVEN in one's marriage.
Of course, it is a whole lot harder to enforce these boundaries, when we have been emasculated, had our self esteem brought down to zero, and are unsure if we will ever be able to fully trust anyone again in our lives. This is the trauma that comes with infidelity. But you can fight back, and you can thrive again. The only thing you can't ensure is if your wife will be a part of that equation.
You can't change her. You can only change yourself--but that is what matters here. What we can do, is give you the advice that has been experienced...and learned...from tens of thousands of people here, with the hope that you can accept this advice as a building block in your recovery. And don't beat yourself up if you have done things the "wrong" way in the past, or have any relapses along the way forward. It happens. It is normal. You just have to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start again.
There will be plenty of advice still coming your way. Please read ALL of the posts, and start to implement a plan of recovery. Focus on yourself, and you will see things start to clear right before your very eyes...like you have noticed as of recently.
Good luck moving forward. Post as much as you can, with as much detail as you are comfortable in giving. The more that we know, the more that we can possibly help.
All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
Acceptance the Marriage is over: 7/2/14
Heading for D
You say you are on the mend from depression.
So do not let her bombshell set you back.
You and your wife have been together a long time but you make no mention of children???
So create a plan for your future.
See an attorney.
Split your $$$ and put them in your own account.
Let your wife seeing you act as a strong man that she knew years ago.
Do a successful 180. If you chase her you will only push her away. She will use that as her excuse.
Now start to fight back.
A. Inform the OM's place of work what he did. Do not let that douche get away with this.
B. If your wife is still not being truthful or playing games then let her family know what is going on. She was not there for you when you needed her most.
Let them know why....
Once her affair is out then she will truly have to deal with the consequences of her actions.
Do not let her hide. Even if it costs you your marriage.
Because in the end you should not settle for the person she has become. Only the person she vowed to be!
Hang in there. Right now you don't have to decide anything. Just be.
One day and one step at a time.
I still have very strong feelings for her. In many ways I am disgusted with myself about that
Don't be so hard on yourself. You have nothing to be ashamed of because you love your wife. That is honorable and noble.
Am I just fooling myself to think that there is any hope?
There is always hope. Your WW's actions will convey if the hope can be turned into something real.
Read, read, read in the Healing Library. 180* is a good place to start.
We are here for you. Good luck.
I hit her with question after question and said things to make her feel even more guilty. Soon she began to pull away again, refusing to talk or answer any more questions.
Ask all you want and tell her what you expect from her, but dont throw the affair in her face at every chance.
During the days when she was sorry and all of that, did she offer her passwords or access to her phone?
Right now, your wife is not going to listen to your requests because she has simply shut her mind off to change. Like another post stated, she could be ripe for another affair.
You should continue to monitor everything she does, calls and texts.
Since she is acting this way, you should also close joint accounts and keep your money to yourself. There is no trust here at this time.
As for the OM, yes like another said, he is a predator and most likely, this is not the first married student he has been caught with.
Give her the book Not Just Friends to read and hopefully that will get through to her. That book also explains what is expected of her at this time.
And that means complete transparency, no more going to those classes without throwing a childish temper tantrum and answering your questions.
The only thing you should remember is that every truth she tells you, dont start yelling, screaming or threatening. Otherwise the WW just figures the hell with it and not much is accomplished.
Right after Dday she showed some remorse and a desire to R, however, she did not agree to total transparency. In fact, she said the opposite. "I will not be controlled by you or anyone". She feels like I am trying to control her when I pursue her (She stated this multiple times prior to Dday, in response to my attempts to "talk about us"). Her distance triggered me to pursue and "try to build a bridge". She said that if there is a bridge to be built, she will be the one to build it. Yesterday we spoke briefly and I told her that if we decide to try and R then transparency was a non negotiable term. I said people with nothing to hide, hide nothing. I agreed to abide by the same terms as well. She did not agree but she did not oppose either. But even if she did agree, how can I actually verify that she has not deleted the texts or emails? She and her AP both told me that they communicated mainly by text messages. But when I look at the history on the Verizon site I only see his number come up 3 times in 90 days. From what I understand, imessage to imessage does not show up and if she deletes it from her phone then it is gone forever. The 180 says that you should not snoop at all. Does this mean that you should not monitor communications until the WS decides that they want to R?
Another issue I am concerned about is how much distance to put between us right now. I travel on business quite a bit and it is normal for me to be gone 3 days a week. Since Dday I have kept my travels short. I have an overwhelming concern that there will be some sort of contact between my WW and her AP. One part of me thinks, if you want him then you can have him. But another part of me says that I need to keep her away from him until the fog lifts. She maintains that she is not going to contact him and that she does not think he will contact her, but if he does she will tell me. But based on my gut as well as most of the posts on this site, she is not being truthful. She reinforced my concern on Saturday morning when she attempted to go to a spin class that ended right before his class started in the same room. It would have been virtually certain that they saw each other. The 180 is about me moving forward, with or without her. It is about accepting the reality that my marriage has ended or is highly likely to end very soon. Her actions on Saturday morning tell me that she is either deep in the fog or really has given up on our M. I still want to believe that we can save our M but it seems less likely every day. It feels like any distance I put between us will only give her more time and opportunity to think about her AP and contact him.
On Dday she downplayed the depth of her attachment to her AP. She said "I got caught up in something and it got out of hand". "I got played big time." But over the past 2 weeks since then, she has slowly conveyed that her emotional attachment to him is very strong and that she is having a hard time getting over him. Prior to Dday she had been consistently rejecting my attempts to be intimate. But she admitted to me that she was last with him on May 13th. On May 15th he told her that they had to end it due to his other girlfriend finding out. Then on May 27th she confessed to me. At first she said that they only had sex once. On May 13th. Then, later on Dday, she said it was twice. The first time was at the end of February. She said that their contact was not consistent but she did see him 3-4 times a week at spin class. She said they used a condom both times. She said they never had oral sex. Her AP confirmed that they had sex twice. Both times were at his house. I don't know what to believe but I also don't know why they would lie about it either. 2 times or 22 times, what is the difference?
Why would she confess to me? She said that she wanted to focus on our relationship and the only way to do it was to be totally honest. But I am having a hard time believing that. There has to be more to the story. If his OW had not discovered the A, it would still be going on. I do not know the identity of his OW, and my WW claims that she doesn't know either. (Again, I find it hard to believe that she could be in a 9 month affair with him and not know the name of this OW). Also, the AP could always change his mind about wanting to be with my WW and come after her full force. He is divorced already and his relationship with the OW is supposedly a secret affair as well. Lastly, a couple of you have indicated that she is ripe for another A! I had not even considered that one. What a nightmare. Things could change very quickly. I have to keep reminding myself that I cannot control my WW. It feels like I should be lobbying her to come to her senses and realize how much pain she has caused me. But I know that this is the exact wrong approach for both of us. I need to be the best that I can be, for me, not for her.
I gave her the book, Not Just Friends, at the suggestion of my IC. She read a little of it but then quickly dismissed it. She is in the Fog. She is going through withdrawals from her AP. She says it is a mid life crisis and she needs time to figure herself out. She says that she "hopes to fight for us" but still needs time. She has hit me with the ilybinilwy line. She was feeling neglected in our marriage and then I got hit with a crippling depression that made me appear weak and clingy for 4 months. That is when her A really kicked into high gear. She says that her feelings for me just are not there right now and she is scared that they never will be again. I am trying hard to be the strong, healthy leader that I was for most of my life. I hope that she will recognize that and see me for who I am instead of who I was with depression.
I miss her very much but I am also very angry that she has done this to me and our family. It is a horrible place to be emotionally.
It is a horrible place to be emotionally.
Yes it is.
That is why you need to focus on yourself. The sooner that you leave this mess called infidelity, the better that you will feel. Whether your WW gets on board, and leaves infidelity with you----well, that's another story.
I fully understand that in general, WS still have an attachment to their affair partners right after Dday. But most are smart/sneaky/cunning enough to minimize the potential fallout by suddenly turning all their attention to their BS. "Oh shit, what have i done, how the hell do i fix this". (Or pretend to).
Your wife on the other hand clearly doesn't "get" it, and the hell you are going through. To brazenly declare that she will continue to go to the same studio as her AP not only takes entitlement to a new level, but shows that she openly has very little respect for you as she does not even attempt to hide her true intentions.
Usually i tell people to go see a lawyer with the "threat" of divorce. Here, i am afraid you are actually going to have to file for divorce for your wife to truly understand. (Remember you can always cancel the process further down the line if she has shown enough remorse).
If she is not 100% on board with rebuilding your relationship as of now, then it is time to detach.
1. Keep implementing 180
2. Get tested for STDs
3. See a Lawyer
Even if you disagree with the above, please at the very least listen to this: Do not get stuck in limbo.
So you implementing the 180 is a fantastic idea. If you fall off the horse, you can always get right back on! I think it would be wise for you to make the statement that unless and until she meets your demands, stated as no contact, full transparency, finding a new spin studio, (insert anything else you need here), then you will not be considering her your wife, and will take the appropriate legal steps.
You cannot babysit her, and obviously you cannot trust her. So focus on YOU. There are so many layers and depth to this pain, believe me, I know. Discussing only kids and finances after this initial statement will help you move toward healing.
Also, I might suggest finding out who his other "girlfriend" is, since it sounds like a second illicit affair... A little investigation can come in handy. I wonder if the spin studio would be interested in what their employee has been up to. Also, remember that with iPhones, often deleted information can be recovered.
I would also suggest that you destroy some stuff, just to make yourself feel better. For example, you might want to find out how much lighter fluid it takes to burn up all her panties, or perhaps how many hits with a 20-pound sledge it takes to destroy her phone. Focusing on destruction of material possessions can be empowering! Especially if they were items she used during her affair.
Hit the 180 hard without telling her you are going to do it. See a lawyer to learn your rights and responsibilities. That way she can't bait you with bullshit about how she'll financially destroy you. Let her know how fun the single life will be. Don't even think about comforting her. She fired you from that job.
Trust her? Do you know how WS's say "fuck you"? They say "trust me".
I have read advice on marriagebuilders.com that says we should spend as much time as possible together during her withdrawal. And that I should be careful not to do anything to upset her during this time. I have tried that and it is literally impossible. The tension between us is so thick and the emotions are raw that each time we are together we are both miserable.
BTDT. Don't recommend. They call it plan A, which in short is winning your wife back. While it can work, your self esteem will take a nose dive. I mean getting flowers and making breakfast for WW while she is still in the affair?
I tried the marriage builders thing for a while. So did the WW. Before I knew it, they were telling her to separate from me because I was being abusive. By their definition, bringing up the affair (or any mistake of the past) after she answers some basic questions is abuse. They shun IC and don't even bring up FOO issues. So how do people find their "why" or their "broken"?
Well they don't. It's rugsweeping and blameshifting.
All said IMHO of course. I feel they set us back and crippled our recovery.
Complete transparency for both of you, not just her
NC with AP for both of you, not just her
No more lies for both of you, not just her.
I say both of you because it makes the R a joint effort for both of you. It is not about control but having an open, honest marriage that makes you partners. She is worried about control after she made decisions about your marriage without consulting you? That is the ultimate control master and it sounds as if she is not going to relinquish it just yet. Sounds like W thinking is very much alive.
If she cannot agree to these basic steps towards R suggested by those who really know how to facilitate R after infidelity, you may have to shake her up. You are walking through fire right now for her and she is reluctant to even get warm. Give her a yank, even if you have to file, she needs to come out of the fog. My last effort might be contacting the BGF, find out her side, and get some insight into the AP operation.
I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.