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12 days since Dday, searching for the right course
Take your time and get it right. At some point she will realize that she has traded her secure life for a spinning instructor, and she will have less time to spin when she has to get a job.
She has done you a favor by getting drunk and running her mouth. Eventually you will be glad she did that and saved you all the detective work and stress.
It will get better
Now she has become this selfish party girl.Many times the WS will start to act just like the AP.
The likes and dislikes changing to reflect the AP, but then it gets worse when they actually start acting like the AP.
No always but sometimes.
Sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row.
You desperately need to gather some courage, get back on your feet and fight your new sworn enemy - your wife.
She told me that she wants to find a place for herself and our daughter.
Tell her to fuck off and find a place of her own without your daughter; she stays in the marital home.
You get the message - turn mean and angry. Your wife is going to do everything to screw you out of all marital possessions, including your daughter. Fight her. The marriage is over and you need to stop being Mr. Nice guy. Time for war.
She has no love or respect for you and although I understand you are shell-shocked, you need to defend yourself against your selfish WW.
OK now has this right. It is fight time, not nice time or reconciliation hope time. Get to a lawyer's office now, not later. Start financial separation now. You don't want her running up credit card debt you'll be stuck with. Custody issue is paramount.
Only a local lawyer can tell you about how your local courts handle custody issues. Generally, though, fault isn't an issue unless other spouse has abandoned the family.
I cannot stress enough that prompt action will save you difficulty down the road. Its hard enough to "win" the game and harder if you're playing catch up ball from the get go.
Although I disagree on the need to be mean and nasty to your wife then I totally 100% support the get tough stance.
I have said this quite often here on SI: Divorce is one of the most misunderstood concepts thrown about here on SI. Too many posters seem to think itís an alternative form of a relationship with the spouse when in fact itís the TERMINATION of a relationship and the quest to find the least interaction necessary to become efficient co-parents.
Being amicable is a plus but not a requirement.
Donít agree? WellÖ chances are you have divorced friends. How much do they associate with their exes? If it wasnít for the kidsÖ wellÖ you basically wouldnít have any need whatsoever to interact with your WW after a few months. Fact is Ė if you divorce Ė if you do your efficient personal recovery then you will at most feel indifferent to your wife in 24 months post-divorce. Not anger, not regretÖ just indifferent.
To me it sounds as if your WW is going through some traumatic out-of-control phase. Sheís losing control of the situation. She thought she could control the affair, the recovery, her actions after the affair, your reactionsÖ and it isnít happening. Sheís realizing that sheís done wrong and sheís justifying it any way she can. Thatís why the sex was so good Ė because had it been bad she would have risked everything for bad sex. Thatís why you are such a drag Ė because if you really were the decent man you are she would have risked everything for a spinning instructor. So IMHO turning into a mean petty man during the divorceÖ Thatís playing into her perceived image of WHY she HAD to have the affair.
Try to take a businesslike approach to what you are dealing with. Try as you can to detach the emotions from reality Ė what you want from what you get. I know this extremely hard. After all we ARE talking about a marriage, a bond that basically is based on emotions. But cold cruel fact is that divorce is basically the business process of dividing assets and debts and commitments accumulated through a nearly 20 year marriage. The emotional decision to divorceÖ thatís already there.
Remember Ė Whether you want to divorce or not is a non-issue. You can want to reconcile as much as you want but if your wife isnít onboardÖ thatís the proverbial one hand trying to clap. The situation you are dealing with is the situation handed out to you. Deal with it that way. Itís like waking up to your house on fire. Moaning in bed and wishing it wasnít your house. Worrying about water damage or the firemenís boots ruining the hardwood floor wonít get you anywhere. Itís action, action, action.
Tell your wife that sheís totally free to find a place of her own but that she has to keep in mind the finances.
Tell your wife that while custody issues havenít been dealt with then your childrenís legal residence will remain at their present location. If she gets her own place they can visit and even stay over Ė but their residence will remain unchanged while this process goes through.
Other than that then really donít talk too much finances with her or in fact the divorce. If she initiates talk about divorce then simply state that you are too emotionally attached to the marriage so you place all the issues into the hands of your attorney.
AVOID arguments. Iím not telling you to pucker up and take everything or anything she says but basically ANY issue she has about the marriage can be answered with some form of:
ďIím sorry you feel that way. I donít necessarily agree. If we had plans to work on the marriage then this is something we would need to address. But since you have decided to remain in infidelity and we are divorcing then there really is no need nor any profit for either of us to discuss thisĒ.
Any issue on the divorce or division of assets:
ďI am too emotionally attached to this marriage to be capable of addressing this issue. There are processes to deal with divorce and our divorce will go through that process. My attorney will handle all the issues on my behalfĒ.
And then you walk away. Other than the kids agenda you two really have nothing to talk about.
I encourage you to be realistic. Chances are that by law sheís entitled to more than you think or wish. Chances are that she thinks sheís getting less than half. For some reason even if there is a totally fair 50/50 division then having half of the marital assets seems less than owning half of the total assets.
Iím also going to encourage you to be truthful. If asked then you are divorcing because she had an affair. Donít be afraid of exposing it. I still think you should phone the gym and complain to the management.
Through all this you need to keep a grim but determined demeanor. Donít be moody, donít pout. Live as full and active life as you can. Rather than sit in front of TV with her being silent in the corner then leave the room and do something positive and active; wax the car, paint the foyer, clean the guttersÖ Be active and refuse to allow her actions and behaviors control your family any longer.
RememberÖ there really isnít any way you can revenge her affair. Itís not about getting even. Itís all about surviving infidelity and getting on the correct path of healing and recovery as soon as possible. You can be firm, focused and determined in your dealings with WW without being rude or abusive.
It's been a while since I posted so I wanted to provide an update. We have had very little interaction although we are still living in the same house. I have decided that I will be moving out. There are 2 primary reasons for that. First, my 13 year old daughter. Since I have to travel for business I cannot be there for her full time. It would be a lot more shocking to her to have to leave our home. Second, I don't want to stay in this house knowing that she and her ap met here on at least 2 occasions. In fact, we will be putting the house up for sale asap.
My ww wants a trial separation. I am moving forward with D but she does not know that. I am trying to agree with anything she says and do the 180. It makes me sick that part of me still hopes that she will have an awakening and realize how much she is throwing away. It makes me literally, physically ill that I still care. WTF!? She made a deliberate decision to have a relationship with some spinning instructor. She brought him into our home more than once. She had the ability to act like nothing happened when I returned home. What kind of person has the capacity to do that?? I need to realize that the woman I loved is gone and that this woman is my mortal enemy. I have to keep reminding myself of that.
That being said, I am trying to approach the D in the most business like fashion. The last thing I want is a long, expensive battle. I am hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Also, I really think that she is still in contact with him. She is moody and very guarded about her phone and computer. She stated again the other day that her feelings for me are not there and she doesnt think they will ever come back. I have revoked her credit cards that were attached to mine. I have opened my own bank accounts. My son and I are looking for a bachelor pad. And it all sucks. I hate every minute of it but I am forcing myself to get tough. She wants a life without me. She gave another man her love when I was going through a horrible depression. She brought that dick face into my home. She bragged about it to my son's gf. Is this a woman I want to be with? Hell no. I miss the image of who she was but I despise the cold hearted ww she has become.
Iíve sometimes been told Iím too pro-reconciliation. Personally I think most all situations are recoverable but I donít see a need to save every situation. If anything then I would rather say Iím a realist: if your wife isnít willing to reconcile on the correct grounds then R simply isnít feasible. Plus it sounds like you are OK with your decision.
Great attitude for the divorce. Detach the emotions and think in numbers. Use the time to get a really good grasp of your situation. Keep in mind that the division of assets and debt isnít so that you get one car, she gets one, you get one plasma TV and she gets the other. Itís more of a calculation of assets and debts and dividing the result in a fair way between you two.
The family house? Maybe you can calculate that accepting less than half its value is OK if your WW leaves your pension to you. If she wants part of the pension then calculate its present value and use that amount as the monetary value you are negotiating with. Try to decide what you want out of the divorce? What is half? What is fair? Where are you willing to compromise and what is your bottom line?
Having all this info and having a clear picture will save you immense money and time in the process.
We have had very little interaction although we are still living in the same house. I have decided that I will be moving out. There are 2 primary reasons for that. First, my 13 year old daughter. Since I have to travel for business I cannot be there for her full time. It would be a lot more shocking to her to have to leave our home. Second, I don't want to stay in this house knowing that she and her ap met here on at least 2 occasions. In fact, we will be putting the house up for sale asap.
Rethink this strategy if you can. I understand that being away for work makes it difficult to have someone with your daughter, but if your 20yr old son can help out in some way with supervision of her then perhaps you do not need your WW to watch her. Yes, I get that your DD13 might not cope with the big change, but considering that her mother is likely to act like "girls gone wild" I don't think DS13's situation is really any better for staying in the house to be witness to that kind of example.
In fact, why can't your WW be the one to move out of the house? Tell her that her getting an apartment would be more suited for her to get "space", figure out if her feelings for you will return, and work things out away from being constantly "trapped" in the family household. Yes, I know it's bullshit and she will just use the opportunity to party it up and date other men. However, if you are decided on going forward with the D process, I can tell you that selling your house is a hell of a lot easier if you control the property and the assets within as opposed to your WW doing so. She could potentially sabotage any contract deals by acting like a squatter while she still claims to figure out her feelings for you (essentially prolongs cake-eating) and keeps you in limbo. Hey, your paying for her lifestyle so she'll fight to keep it. There are stories here of WS screwing up home sales.
Your lucky to have an awesome son willing to help and support you through this ordeal. Let him help you. Don't be affraid to ask him for help. You both can strategize, have a plan, and your daughter will very likely buy in for the effort. As scary as change like divorce brings, it is the parent who has a clear direction and a plan for the future and who is an emotional rock for love and support for which the kids will turn to and follow.
Good job on getting your ducks in a row so far.
It makes me sick that part of me still hopes that she will have an awakening and realize how much she is throwing away. It makes me literally, physically ill that I still care. WTF!? She made a deliberate decision to have a relationship with some spinning instructor. She brought him into our home more than once. She had the ability to act like nothing happened when I returned home. What kind of person has the capacity to do that?? I need to realize that the woman I loved is gone and that this woman is my mortal enemy. I have to keep reminding myself of that.
If she really is going through midlife crisis (MLC) expect to wait anywhere from 2 to 7 yrs of her extracting her cranium from her rectum, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it but just get out of the way. Google MLC support forums and read through their stories. Some of these just break your heart for what the spouses of MLC candidates go through. It's brutal and abusive. Yes, that woman you once knew is truly gone. The worst in her has come out. The real question is once she is done with MLC will she remain this aweful selfish person or actually change for the better. You can either wait or not wait around to find out. All I can tell you is for the time being, don't deny yourself the life that YOU deserve, the happy father that your kids deserve to be with.
[This message edited by Jduff at 4:13 PM, July 18th (Friday)]
J Duff has given you the right advice. You wife cheated, lied to you, and totally disrespected you in every way possible. if for no other reason than to show her the consequences, I would not agree to let her have the house as her new sex romp location. if i had to eat cereal for dinner every night, I would hire people to help with 13 year old. You son i think was urging you do get rid of her so maybe she can help.
You need to inflict maximum damage to her. You i hope will have your attorney make it impossible for her to still not have to work at all and just enjoy going to spinning class and looking for guys to bang.
You need to try (I know it is hard) to look at the glass as still half full. If she had not been so stupid as to get drunk and spill all the beans you might have still been back where you were when you were not able to act on everyone's advice,.
I don't know how there can be any talk of R, or MC with this woman. She needs to understand how it will be without you to make her life comfy. The more pain she feels the quicker her head will get out of her ass.
There are a bunch of stories on here now about women your wife's age trading everything for a fuck buddy younger than them. Unfortunately, too many of them are getting away with it because the guys are proving to be the weaker sex as far as moving on with their lives.
Do what you need to do, but do nothing counting on her to restore your marriage .
Onguard, how is it going? Any updates?
I am in pain but I am determined to do what must be done. I have made a list of ALL the things she has done to me over the past 7 months to keep me focused. You simply cannot do that to someone you love or care about. I have also kept a list of the 180 as well as some other reminders of how I should think and act. The wife who I loved and miss is gone. I must accept the current situation and let go of the past. I wish I would have listened to all of you right away. Instead, I showed my pain, insecurity and weakness, which caused her to lose even more respect for me. It also caused me to lose respect for myself. That has come to an end though.
I have told her that she needs to move out. I said, "You destroyed our relationship, you are not willing to do anything to try and repair it and you are the one who is confused." This is our marital home and since your actions show that you do not want this marriage you should leave. She has agreed and is looking for a place to live.
We don't communicate often but when we do it is usually full of anger and resentment. Divorce is not what I want but living with the woman she has become is worse. She made her decisions and now I really have no choice but to give her what she wants which is her freedom. My attorney was on vacation for 10 days so I have not made any additional progress. I am hoping that we can achieve an amicable dissolution of the marriage but my guess is that she is going to continue her campaign of insanity.
I am learning to feel the pain but not show it. I am spending my leisure time with my kids, working out and playing golf. I still fight off feelings of deep sadness when I see families and couples living the way we used to live. I get very jealous but I have to remind myself that things change and that this too shall pass. I made mistakes as a husband and I wish I could go back and be more attentive and "date" her more often. I was not aware of her unhappiness until it was too late. But that is still no excuse for what she did. She could have chosen many other ways to let me know how much she was hurting. I have told my friends who are still married to learn from my experience. If you love your wife, your family, your life and you want to stay married then do everything you can to show her. I don't know if I will ever love another woman the way I loved my wife but I know that I will be a better partner to her.
Very happy to hear that you have made the decision to kick her ass out of the home. You worked for it, paid for it, and she became the weasel that she is. I hope your attorney is able to fix the divorce agreement that will force her ass to work instead of looking for fuck buddies during the day.
Regardless, you deserve better . It will hurt for a while but that was a great idea you had about keeping the list of all the horrible things she did to you to make sure you stay angry and focused on not giving in to her one inch.
This horrible experience has made you wiser and I hope you do continue to post and stay on this forum.
Every day others arrive just where you were and your knowledge and experience can help others.
Doing that will also help you feel better.
Stay strong and kick her to the curb
[This message edited by Badhurt at 2:25 PM, July 27th (Sunday)]
Thanks for the update Ongaurd. I am sorry for your pain and loss of love and family as you described.
One thing i can only say, is that you still in part blame yourself which has nothing to do with her infidelity. Happy marriages have infidelity, she just chose to re-write or omit what she wants from your marriage to justify her actions. You could have been the best husband and it not change a thing.
Keep thinking good thoughts, especially about yourself.
As time passes by you slowly realize that while you may be responsible for some issues in your marriage that your wife could have come to you and communicated her unhappiness.
She did not.
And all the venom that comes out of each of you now does not help the situation.
Your wife has become a very selfish woman. She has put herself above your marriage and her children.
She is in the "ME" stage. And there is nothing you can do to change that.
But there are a few things you can do for yourself and your kids.
You be the Man. Make those tough decisions no matter how painful.
You be the parent. Show your children and STBX that no matter how horrible her actions you will guide your family to a better place. You will not allow her Affair or your depression to stop your family from being happy again.
You choose happiness over bitterness. You make a conscious decision to be happy. To be friendly. To play golf with friends or be social by making a few new friends (man or woman) each week.
I swear this last one may sound silly but you will be surprised how your outlook onlife changes when you surround yourself with happy family and your happiness flows to them as well.
Your STBXW will wonder where that man has been for the past year or two.
I understand depression. I was in downtown NYC on 911. I lost some of my good friends and customers that day.
I pray for them daily and swore I would not let that tragedy depress me anymore. It took years.
You can do it too!
I also forget to say this Onguard.
Never settle. Never settle for being her Plan B.
She got used. She just cannot come to terms with it yet. What young stud who can get any young girl in his gym is going to get serious and commit to a relationship with a 40 something woman.
Not gonna happen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sex was amazing. How the hell would she know. She only had sex with two or a few in her entire life.
Stop taking her crapola on the chin.
With someone nicer, prettier, honest and maybe even younger.
And never settle for being a friend with her.
Unless she deserves it.
And that could take years.
I appreciate all of you who have continued to follow my situation and taken the time to provide me with your support and advice. I went back and read through this entire thread and it's hitting home more and more. There have been some developments that I wanted to share and get some feedback about.
She left a legal pad on her bed the other day and I looked at it. I know, snooping is a bad idea but I did it anyway. What I saw was very painful. She had notes preparing for her IC session where she was literally comparing me to her ap. It was titled "define your losses". What would you lose if you lost this man? There were 3 items under my name. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (which is basically zero for ME.) There were 6 for him: Passion, excitement, common interests, the way he made me feel, intensity, looks. She also had written the parts of each of us that cause her pain and anger. He had more there as well but his were all about him being a player, untrustworthy and hurting her by dumping her. Other than looks, nothing I read was a surprise but seeing it on paper, in my waw handwriting, was like a dagger in the eye.
I calmly asked her to talk for a minute. I told her that she needed to leave the house asap. I know that you are still in love with your ap and I will not allow you to use me and our home as your waiting room any longer. I am moving forward with ending the marriage and you need to get out of this house. She tried to deny it but I told her that I know for a fact that she wants him and would be with him in a second if he contacted her.
The next day she once again showed her true colors. We had agreed that we would tell our 13 year old daughter together when we both felt the time was right. But yesterday she decided that the time was right for her to have that talk one on one. When I got home she told me that she had spoken to our daughter and it upset her very much. No shit sherlock! I went up to her room and knocked on the door. When I opened it she threw her arms around me and cried. "Why is this happening to our family?" Which turned me into a mess. I told her that everything is going to be ok. We don't have any final answers yet but that we both love her more than ever. That this was her house and she can be here anytime she wants.
My stbx is supposedly looking for a place to live today. I would still prefer that my M somehow work out but I am determined to keep moving forward on my own. I am staying away from her but being positive and upbeat are still a challenge. I still have not found an attorney that I am confident about. I have 2 interviews set up though.
Has anyone ever heard of a situation like mine that did not end in D? I know it's real and I am accepting it, but I don't like it.
Yes i have seen R with worse than your situation. The note-pad sounds like something her therapist asked her to do and it is the A Fog talking IMHO.
What has she agreed to basically? Does she want to fix the marriage? You are going to have a lot more pain and she will slowly come out of the fog. Every aspect she listed are the chemicals talking... are you kidding me... no one can compete with that. An affair is a vacation from real life.
I hope her therapist asks her what she thinks her ap will do with the mundane of life, bills, responsibilities... that is the real test of love.
[This message edited by atreides at 9:30 AM, July 31st (Thursday)]
Yes I have heard of situations like yours that have survived. And I have heard of situations dealing with less that didnítÖ
Basically ALL that is needed for reconciliation is the will and the commitment of both parties and right now your marriage doesnít have that. Until and unless that happens then hoping for R and missing R is comparable to wanting to win the lottery and moaning about all you canít buy until you do so.
Your WW isnít there. Maybe she will want to R but right now itís a long long way to go and maybe she wonít EVER get there.
Her list? WellÖ Good for the IC. Good that the IC is making her face the truth because I have a feeling the IC slowly but surely knocks her fantasy off that list. And you donít have a snowballs chance in hell of winning on that list at the moment.
You are competing with fantasy. Itís like listing if you want to clean the WC or go unicorn-riding along the beach into the setting sunset. Until she realizes the unicorn is really an ass with a horn tied to its head and that the water is cold then you donít have a chance. And there is no way YOU can tell her that. There is NOTHING bad or wrong you can say about OM. What you can do is create pressure to make the fantasy reality. To make OM more forcibly refuse WW, to make her feel shunned and even judged.
All you can do is make the affair reality. Break the fantasy.
I still think you should report the OM to the spinning studio. Donít know if they will do anything but if OM and WW are still seeing each other (despite his supposed commitment to his GF) then it will be one more brick in that wall.
Let his GF know that you suspect there might be more contact between them. Nothing tends to turn that unicorn into an ass faster than when the ass brays at the WW to get off.
I also suggest you be very open with your 13 year old daughter (in a very careful and age-appropriate way): Mom is having an affair with OM and I am not willing to accept that.
All the above is done in a non-confrontational, calm and controlled manner. Itís not done to hurt or out of spite Ė itís done because itís the truth.
Carry on detaching. Avoid confrontations. Keep the pressure on her to find somewhere else to live with reminders that she should move out.
Do one thing right now: Google how and if infidelity factors in any way in your state.
I agree with Atreids...
Your wife has certainly had enough time to get out of the affair fog. She can't even see this guy for what he is really like. Does she really think this guy would pay her way in life financially.
It will be interesting to see how her therapist handles this list. I am wondering if the therapist wont tell her exactly what Atreids wrote. That during an affair, there is no freaking pressure in life, because it is not even close to living a real life.
She left a legal pad on her bed the other day and I looked at it. I know, snooping is a bad idea but I did it anyway.
You need to get past this notion that your WW has any privacy in your home. Given the situation, snooping is NOT a bad idea, especially when she is careless enough to leave vital information lyng around.
She had notes preparing for her IC session where she was literally comparing me to her ap. It was titled "define your losses". What would you lose if you lost this man? There were 3 items under my name. Financial security, comfort zone and family. (which is basically zero for ME.) There were 6 for him: Passion, excitement, common interests, the way he made me feel, intensity, looks. She also had written the parts of each of us that cause her pain and anger. He had more there as well but his were all about him being a player, untrustworthy and hurting her by dumping her. Other than looks, nothing I read was a surprise but seeing it on paper, in my waw handwriting, was like a dagger in the eye.
I hope you at least took pictures of these notes on your phone. Those notes were golden for you. Did you see the selfishness in it? Did you see how we were right on the mark with her concerns? "Financial security, comfort zone and family." Those are her pressure points. Filing for D and having her move out puts serious pressure on those concerns. All the stuff she listed under OM is all temporary, no matter who she has a relationship. It's the "newness" of any realtionship. Typically it lasts 2 to 3 yrs for this utopic "unicorn" stage. You find those descriptions are very common for a lot of waywards and their initial justifications to themselves for their "WHY". Replace OM with a drug and you won't see much difference in the behavior of addiction. She has to withdrawl before she can even see what she destroyed.
Also, those notes could have been shown to the management of the spinning class and would have implicated the OM's involvement with students. They would fire his ass in a heart beat becuase no business wants a reputation for breaking up marraiges.
Did your DS13 tell you what how your WW explained what was going on? Was it generalized with "your father and I just drifted apart." or "your father and I can't get along. We argue and fight a lot." or anything else that evades the truth? Yes, tell her truth sans the details. Don't let her get gaslighted into thinking DS13 had any part of this.
That notepad tells me that she has to still be in the A with him. If he ended it and they had no contact why would she bother doing a define your losses list? That list means she has a choice to make which means the A is still active.
I'd tell his GF immediately.