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12 days since Dday, searching for the right course

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demos posted 7/31/2014 10:49 AM

That notepad tells me that she has to still be in the A with him. If he ended it and they had no contact why would she bother doing a define your losses list? That list means she has a choice to make which means the A is still active.

I'd tell his GF immediately.

Schadenfreude posted 7/31/2014 14:15 PM

Jduff hits the nail on the head. Those items are her pressure points. Nothing else matters to her a divorce filing and her moving out hit all three

She's delusional if she even hopes for a real long term relationship with this guy. He's young and presumably fit and has a bevy of women with time on their hands to chose from. Why choose a much older one with the "baggage" of a thirteen year old daughter?

Maybe the therapist will make her understand this A is based on delusion. But what about the next temptation with a more age and job appropriate OM. Realizing this A can lead nowhere may make her a better person for herself, but do you want to declare yourself Plan B by taking her back even if her therapy works miracles and makes her remorseful she did this to you? Your life, your choice.

While it hurt be thankful you saw the list. You are not delusional. She wrote what she is not just told you in anger. That list was the result of deliberate thought. Never forget it

5454real posted 7/31/2014 14:26 PM

Sigh, as guarded as she is with her phone and computer, do you really think she just left that legal pad there?


Badhurt posted 7/31/2014 21:54 PM


You are doing the best you can, but please get R out of your head. Your wife has chosen to destroy her family and marriage and the catalyst is a "spinning instructor" . She regards you as the meal ticket.

When this first tarted, we all told you that the reason she would not leave the gym was because she wanted to try to keep fucking him, and that if his girlfriend ever broke up with him, your wife would bang him again in an instant. THAT IS STILL THE CASE, so what is the to think about R for.

You need to kick her out of your house, let her get an apartment quickly or she is going to be using your home as her sex romp room like she already has. She will find someone else if the spinning instructor does not get the urge to have her again.

You will do yourself a favor if you stop caring about why. She did it, she wants it this way, so what you should be doing is hiring the best lawyer you can afford and making her life as miserable as she made yours. make sure she has to go out an get a job. That will rock her world.

Please do not let your 13 year old melt you into getting back to where you were. She will adjust, Millions of kids turn out just fine from divorced situations, and you will be a much better father when your soul is not being destroyed by this idiot you are now still forced to call wife.

Onguard posted 11/11/2014 16:31 PM

It has been a long time since my last post and thought I would just vent and journal a bit. I am still living in Limbo hell and I have only myself to blame. My waw has given me every reason in the world to file for D and never look back but I have not done a thing. It just will not sink in that my marriage is really over. Even though she has disrespected me in every possible way, for some reason I just have not been able to bring myself to rip the bandaid off. This needs to change.

I have been trying to save a marriage that my waw does not want to save. She says that her feelings for me are gone and her heart is not in it anymore. I think I am finally starting to beleive her. We are still living in the same house but essentially separated. I did find an attorney after interviewing 4 of them but I have not filed yet. In the meantime, she has been acting like a college kid on spring break. She has been going out often and regularly comes home between 3-4am.

All of my supporters are telling me that there is no hope and that i need to file and move on. What on earth am I waiting for?! She had an affair, she brought him into our home to have sex when I was out of town, she still goes to the same spinning studio where he works, her ap is the one who ended the affair, she has been pining for him for months and would still probably go back to him if she could, she has shown virtually no remorse or desire to reconcile. She is still in our home but that is simply for her own selfish reasons and fears. My life has become a nightmare and I need to find the strength to put an end to this.

She blame shifts every single time we talk. Her favorite saying is "Happy people don't have affairs". She says that she was miserable for 20 years and should have left me a long time ago. And here I am, the sad pathetic puppy dog, thinking of all the good times we had as a family, trying to get her to reconsider. We were clearly watching 2 different movies over the past 20 years. I need to accept that I cannot change how she feels. She fell in love with her ap and would still be with him if he were interested. Why would anything else matter to me?!

I don't want to sit here waiting for her to file. I did my best to be a good husband. I know now, in hindsight, that I could have done many things differently in order to show her how important she was to me. But I was faithful, I loved her and truly tried to give her, our kids and her family a great life. I thought I was doing ok. Since finding out about the A, I have tried to be patient and loving. And, as all of the supporters on SI said, it failed miserably. You cannot nice her back into the marriage. So hard to accept until you actually go through it and watch it with your own eyes.

So, where do I go from here? I am calling my lawyer tomorrow and get the process started for real. I will probably start a thread in the Divorce section of this site as well. It's time for me to take back my life.

jobin posted 11/11/2014 17:35 PM

Wow, your pain threshold puts mine to shame - and I thought I had a high one!

If I can offer my thoughts:

I was convinced - absolutely convinced - that essentially, my life was over if I wasn't able to save my marriage. I was such a wreck at one point, I managed to convince myself I was no longer a good presence in my children's lives. That's right - I honestly believed everyone (including my 4 boys) would be better if I was gone. As in gone from the planet. I then made an exit plan, went about my day, and started carrying out my plan. It is eerie how calm you get when you reach that point.

I am not ready to talk about why I stopped, but I got as close as you can.

Then I decided to try - just try - and see what happened. I mean, I could check out anytime right?

Well, much to my surprise, people were right - things DO get better. You CAN have a good life - there ARE other people out there.

That's my message to you - I promise - this is not the end for you. You can choose to pursue happiness for yourself. Stop living for your marriage. Stop worrying about her. You have a divorce to deal with - but thats what we lawyers are for! Let yours do their job - in fact TELL them to do their job, and get this moving. Then listen to their advice, let the process work (and try not to obsess over it - that's why you have a lawyer).

You should start really looking at YOUR life - what makes you happy, what do you like to do? You are a grown man, you have good kids, you have a job - and now you are free! Get this poison woman away from you and start being selfish about making you and your kids happy.


wk55hn posted 11/11/2014 17:43 PM

You have to stand up for yourself a little bit more, come right back at her and puncture her bullshit balloon.

HER: "Happy people don't have affairs". She says that she was miserable for 20 years and should have left me a long time ago.

YOU: "Decent people don't lie to their spouses and string them along for 20 years about being happy when they are not."

The thing with her AP cannot be called "love" in my opinion until it has stood up to the test of reality, where they both are free to be together, and they actually are together, for at least a year. What they have is a fantasy of how they wish it would be. Not love. This dude didn't want to spend his life with a 44-year-old with an ex-husband and two kids. He loves his girlfriend. He had sex with your wife. He dumped her so fast it made her head spin.

There are posters on here who got divorced and then remarried. It is possible, but I don't see it for your wife. I have met her carbon copies about a dozen times over the past 20 years. I take it that she is very attractive. She has re-discovered that she can be a rock star, as can any pretty woman - she can go out to a bar, dress a certain way, act a certain way, and guys - even much younger guys - will line up hoping to get a piece. I guess she doesn't realize is that all they want is a piece. Some day, she will. She will meet some other guy, that guy will be decent enough, she will settle down, and she will realize - she may never tell you - but she will realize that it's really all the same. You were not the devil who made her miserable. This guy will leave his underwear on the floor, not lower the seat, whatever - he will not be perfect. Neither would have the spinning instructor.

I am always amazed at how juvenile the cheaters are. Your wife is no exception. That list she made about "defining her losses?" Under him, she lists passion and excitement - aren't they basically the same thing? Common interests? How about building a life together, cooperating to raise two great kids, save money, pay the bills, and comfort each other. Yeah, it got routine and you didn't do the little things, you let it get too much like roommates - but so did she. She has a mouth, she could have told you what was up.

You know, I think you realize it, you said it, but you look weak to her, she has lost some respect for the way you just sit back and took her shit without standing up for yourself. She is going to the gym with macho men - not the spinning instructor, specifically, but if you spend any amount of time in a gym, you know what I mean. She is thinking, why would my husband put up with this from me? My AP never would tolerate, that other guy in the gym wouldn't tolerate it, etc., etc., etc. Maybe if these guys were in the same situation they would tolerate it, maybe they don't tolerate it now because they have nothing to lose with your wife. Me, personally, I have no use for a woman who is going to lose respect for me because I love her that much to put up with her crap. You took vows with your wife, you went out into the world every day to earn a living to support your family, to give her the kind of life where she has time during the day to listen to the sweet talk of a spinning instructor while you are on the job busting your ass to pay for her cheating ass.

I'm starting to ramble. But my point is, get moving on with your life. She can chase you later on when and if she ever realizes just what she gave up.

happyman64 posted 11/11/2014 21:20 PM


Your wife is seriously messed up in the head.

And to be honest with you I do not think your depression or lack of attention for her led to her affair.

Did they contribute to the marriage issues? Sure.

But your wife not only lied and cheated she is being harmful to you, her children and herself.

It is good that she is in IC. She needs it.

But you know what she needs even more?

Tough love.

Stop talking to her and let your attorney to the talking in the future for you.

Have her served. Without prior knowledge.
Give her a divorce that she not only deserves but has earned.
Sell the house. Burn the bed.

Remove yourself from her life. She does not deserve one ounce of friendship, love or respect from you.

While this is going on go to her gym. Meet with the manager and hand him a letter from your attorney or approved by him.

Make sure the letter is clear on what took place. Get his ass fired or tell the gym you will sue them.

The OM deserves this. But he has also earned it.

And if your wife says one word to you about this just give her a two word answer "F@ck You!".

Stop being soft on her and stop being soft on yourself.

Get this divorce behind you and then focus on your depression. You are young. You have your whole life behind you.

There are plenty of women that will want you that are real and not a fantasy.

Focus on you, your kids and your future. Your Ex is someone that you used to know.

She needs to grow up, get her head back into reality. She needs to focus on herself. She is so messed up that might take her a lifetime.

Give her the divorce she really needs. It might be the only chance she has to become a good person and mother again.

Because right now she is nothing but a mess.


Onguard posted 11/12/2014 15:05 PM

Thanks for the support. I agree that I have lost her respect by not responding with strength early on. It's a horrible feeling to know what to do but not have the backbone to do it. "You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it." This was my problem, I was not willing to lose my marriage. She is the only woman I have ever loved so I am afraid of what life will be like without her. Jobin, your point about there being a life after divorce hit the nail on the head. It feels like my life is ending. All I can do is think about the way things used to be. Depression is also a factor as it zaps my energy and ability to feel pleasure. I know that I should be doing things to make myself happy but right now nothing really makes me feel good. Hopefully this will change as I start to take control of my situation.

jobin posted 11/12/2014 15:33 PM

its one choice at a time, onguard.

Decide to workout.
Decide to go golfing
Decide to go out with friends

Let yourself breathe.

I don't recall - but strongly encourage you to really stay on top of that depression - with medical assistance. Make sure you are not downplaying the trouble you are having. I only needed medical intervention for a few months total but it saved my life. (They didn't lock me away for months, just helped with counselling and some prescriptions - first for sleep and anxiety then for the depression itself).

I promise - I know if I can do it, you can. I was the short, nerdy guy from high school... So when my spouse did this, after 17 years of marriage and 4 kids, I truly believed my one chance at happiness was gone.


Please take the advice offered here and know that it is not just people blowing smoke up your butt to make you feel better. You can do this. You will have a life, and it will be faster than you think, once you get started.

Just start with ONE thing. Call the lawyer. Then do ONE more thing. Then the momentum will kick in and you will be shocked how the feeling of paralysis starts to fade. Don't overwhelm yourself trying to figure it all out - it's too much. Just do ONE thing. Then keep going. One step, one choice at a time.

Brandon808 posted 11/12/2014 15:45 PM

You lost her respect? What about her losing your respect with such blatant betrayal and mistreatment?

You need to detach, to get some distance so you can see her behavior for what it is instead of seeing who she used to be.

franklymydear posted 11/12/2014 17:30 PM

I'm kind of fuming at your WW right now. Can you file, move out, get an apartment and go NC with her as quickly as possible? I know you want to save your marriage so much. You seem like you need to get away from it and have lots of time for yourself though. Seeing her every day is not going to help. And, if there is a chance in hell for your marriage, filing, moving out, and going NC is the only way to pull her out of her dream world.

nononsense posted 11/13/2014 10:48 AM


You have had an awful time. It sounds like hopefully you have reached the end of the line of taking it. You are married to a monster, and you will eventually be so much better if you do not see her daily.
I hope you actually did file like you said you were about to do. And ai am not a lawyer but do not see why you should leave the house that she is probably still using as her personal brothel.
If she does not have a real job please separate your finances. Cancel all her credit cards and make it so uncomfortable for her that she wants to leave.
It hurts. Everyone who reads your story here knows that. I join all the others in wishes in wishing you strength and the ability to get through this ordeal and regain your dignity. You can do it and it will get easier once you get some power back and she squirms a little. Confidence will grow on you and the despair will lift.

[This message edited by nononsense at 10:51 AM, November 13th (Thursday)]

happyman64 posted 11/13/2014 13:31 PM


jobin posted some wise words.

And I understand depression.

But if I were in your shoes ( I was a long time ago) I would consciously move away from the issues that were causing that depression.

A. The job.
B. The wife.
C. Her infidelity.

You made an interesting comment:

She is the only woman I have ever loved so I am afraid of what life will be like without her.

There is nothing wrong with loving your wayward wife. Nothing at all. But you are loving the woman that she was, the woman you fell in love with; not the woman she is today.

That is key for you to come to grips with.

And you are already finding out what life is like living without her. She has already stepped out of the marriage. Actually she has left the marriage.

What you need to teach your wife is what her life will be like without you in it.

Until she feels consequences she will never change or love you and only you.

And until you show her those consequences any hope of being happy with her again will be lost.


Onguard posted 11/13/2014 15:31 PM

Thank you for the responses. I hate to use depression as an excuse for not acting. It's hard for people who have never experienced true depression to understand the impact it can have but it sounds like HM and Jobin both get it. It erodes your self esteem and makes you feel worthless. Then to be betrayed and rejected by the most important person in your life.. It's a bitter pill to swallow. But life is full of challenges for each of us and I will get through this and come out stronger one day. I never had depression until I was 40(I am 44 now) and my first episode lasted about 4 months. So, I remember how much stronger and happier I was for my entire adult life. I just want to be myself again!

My ww went looking for a place to live yesterday. She prefers that I move out for a "trial" separation but I told her no chance. She violated our M, she isnt willing to commit to the M now, so she needs to leave. Everyone is telling me that I will feel better when she is gone and I hope they are right. I have lived with her for 25 years so I'm a little nervous. I expect that my D13 will be with me quite a bit so that will help me to adjust.

Infidelity is a trauma. It has consumed almost every waking moment of my life over the past 5 months. The images of the two of them together, the thought of him walking up the stairs of OUR home, the memories of how seamlessly she deceived me during the affair. Her statements about missing him and hoping for him instead of me. The total lack of remorse. How can the WS inflict such pain on someone who they once loved? On someone who has given so much to them over the last 30 years. I don't think I could do that to HER now even after all she has done to me. All of the memories of all of the times we shared must mean nothing to her. I will never understand the mind of a ww.

happyman64 posted 11/13/2014 18:51 PM

I will never understand the mind of a ww.

Many of us will agree with you.

Glad she is moving out. Now give her a deadline.

Show her consequences.

Have you gone to the health club and spoken to the manager?

Make some waves my friend.

Bet you haven't handed her divorce papers yet?

Don't settle for a separation.

Again it is all about the consequences.

And most importantly how is your 13 year old handling this mess???

Onguard posted 11/15/2014 12:12 PM

HM, no I have not handed her D papers yet. My attorney thinks we should pursue a mediation before filing. She is sending my ww a letter as such. Mediation would be much less costly and a lot faster but I am not optimistic about our ability to agree on spousal support.

As for calling the fitness studio, nope, I have not done that either. The owners of the studio are cut from the same cloth as the instructor who my ww was banging so I don't think my complaints would make any waves. I just think it would make me look weak. Obviously I would love to cause problems for the douche bag if possible but I don't want to come off looking like a sore loser.

My D13 is doing ok for now. She knows that there are problems but does not know about the A. She is kind of ignoring the whole thing with the exception of trying to play matchmaker once in a while. She will ask me to come sit with her and mom on the couch and watch a movie... My ww is planning on telling her about the separation on Monday night. I'm planning for a very emotional time.

My ww gave me a letter yesterday letting me know that she has found an apartment and plans to move next week. Here are the main points:

Feels that this is a neccesary step if we are going to have any chance of R.

She is sick of my spying on her and asking her questions when she is out late.

She needs to step away and does not want to feel angry anymore.

She does not want us to communicate about our R for 30 days. Basically, only communicate about the kids or business by text or email.

Cannot go back to the M for the wrong reasons, fear, security, finances, history.

She needs to feel what life would be like without me.

She will not be dating and is not doing this to be with other men in any way.

She plans on hibernating, thinking, grieving, processing and healing.

Doing this makes everything real. It is bringing up emotions that have been buried and that is a good thing.

Wants to start the new year either all in or all out.

I think she is doing it so that she can either rekindle the A or pursue other options without any interference. She has already been staying out very late with her new, younger, single friends so why would that slow down? I really need to find the strength to let go. Why do I still care?

craig2001 posted 11/15/2014 16:24 PM

Feels that this is a neccesary step if we are going to have any chance of R.

She is sick of my spying on her and asking her questions when she is out late.

She needs to step away and does not want to feel angry anymore.

I will translate for you, she wants to continue dating other guys. She has no interest in being married.

What married man would NOT question their wife who consistently comes home late. She is acting like a teenager who is angry at her parents.

Obviously I would love to cause problems for the douche bag if possible but I don't want to come off looking like a sore loser.
Good or sore loser only matters in a game that is fair. There is not a damn thing fair about what he did and is doing.

As for spousal support, get a killer lawyer and make your wife pay. She is treating with you zero respect and you should treat her exactly as she treats you.

No one respects someone who disrespects them.

RealityBlows posted 11/15/2014 17:58 PM

Wow, Onguard. Went through something similar here in my happy marriage of 22 years with three kids. Suddenly out of left field, wife just got up and affaired down with someone waay below her stature. Then started coming up with "reasons" that were news to me.

The truth is, they have no idea why they are doing what they are doing. They're minds will not accept that they are doing it for the basest reasons. That they are doing it for thrills, excitement and validation. They are impulsively following the high that infidelity causes. The greatest, sexiest, best looking, most loving and attentive husband in the world can not compete with the high intensity emotions and enchantment caused by the forbidden fruits of a surrealistic elicit affair. As you have heard before, affair emotions are like methamphetamine. They have the same biochemical effect on the brain. That is why they act exactly like addicts. Her affair has nothing to do with you or your state of the marriage. It has to do with her weak boundaries, coping mechanisms, situational awareness, maturity, self esteem and will power. People in affairs are stuck in the infatuation phase of love because the relationship is never allowed to evolve into the enduring Marital Love phase. Most APs are actually poor mates and would never survive the Marital Love phase as they only fit a few essential needs. That is why a small percentage of affair-borne marriages ever survive. Actually, very few affairs ever make it past the affair domain at all and usually die a natural death when they are brought into the light and the affair bubble is burst. Affair bubbles are usually burst with a good effective and well executed dose of Reality

Her mind will not accept what she is doing and will desperately seek out "reasons" in an attempt to rationalize and justify what she is doing. She will look back at your marriage with this bias and focus on every little flaw-and exploit them. This is the minds attempt to protect itself from her conscience which is telling her that what she is doing is nothing less than monstrous.

So, You must stand your ground-firm. You lay down the conditions for R without compromise. It is a privilege to be married to you, to a Man like YOU. A fair Man, who has taken her into many years of marital love and-even now, is loving enough to still consider R.

She must regard this as a special and fleeting opportunity. She does not get to call the shots. She does not get to dictate to you the terms for which you require to feel safe and secure. If she does not get it. File for D. Sometimes the shock of being served the papers breaks them out of their fog. Sometimes the shock of being dumped by their AP breaks them out of their fog. Sometimes they never leave the fog. Either way having the D poised to execute will cut the incredible pain and losses that a destructive wayward can cause you and the family.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 6:01 PM, November 15th (Saturday)]

crisp posted 11/16/2014 06:54 AM

Don't worry about not having been tough enough or how you got to where you are now. Just celebrate the fact that you have come so far on this journey---to the point where she is moving out and your healing will really start.

Some are able to take quick decisive action and some are paralyzed for a time. Some suffer longer than others before the main healing kicks in. Your path has been what it was. Now that you are a little further in the journey, focus on you and your daughter and things will start to look up.

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