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12 days since Dday, searching for the right course

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Bigger posted 6/23/2014 10:40 AM

Let‘s be clear on this:

I am disgusted with myself for being so docile

Onguard – your reactions and actions up to now have also been very typical of husbands sharing comparable stories as yours. Don’t feel bad or don’t sell yourself short. It takes time to reach the stage where you see action beats inaction and our goads and 2x4 are meant to speed you up to that point.

I want to address a couple of your points:

Regarding telling the studio:
What do you think the studio will do? Print a poster of her? Kick her out? She’s a CLIENT and if they take action against her they better have great liability coverage. Chances are they will terminate OM or at least this will place great pressure on them not being in any form of personal contact at the studio.
Once again: If your biggest fear is your wife filing for divorce then simply accept an open marriage.
Addicted to the studio? Well buddy – it’s actually your WW tendency to give way to her addictions that got her into the affair.

What’s your goal with the 180? Have you told your wife what you need? Has she complied?
Well – you told her you need her to stop going to her studio and she is doing what?
Doing the 180 without the WS knowing what your requirements are doesn’t really make sense to me.
Doing the 180 and the WS still not doing what they know they need to do… not sustainable.

You can tell her that unless she commits to the marriage then it’s over AND not file right away.

Filing for D.
No need for that right away. Make your stance clear:
Wife – To reconcile I need THIS.
Be careful to make your list clear, concise and fair. For example: she doesn’t have to stop spinning but not at THAT studio while OM is working there.

I guess she’s going to spinning to stay in form. Have you two considered joining a gym TOGETHER? Maybe one where she can to some cardio-related class while you hit the treadmill or weights? This is something my wife and I did and it gave us a lot more time together.

self-rescuer posted 6/23/2014 15:37 PM

Gently - she is completely checked out. She is emotionally gone.

You are going to have to make a huge gesture to get her attention.

She is disrespectful and utterly dismissive of you and your gut wrenching pain.

This is still so very fresh and you are so conflicted but hear me when I say YOU CANNOT NICE HER BACK INTO THE MARRIAGE.

It is a common mistake to walk on eggshells to keep from driving them away but, my friend, she is already gone. Only the risk of losing her secure home life and the comfort YOU afford her will force her back into reality.

You need to have some non- negotiables. And the hard thing is that they are boundaries she cannot ignore. Determine what they are are let her know.

As soon as you let go of the unrealistic notion that if you're just a little kinder, patient, understanding or whatever, she will come back - you can really take back your power.

Dare2Trust posted 6/25/2014 17:53 PM

ON Guard,

You stated:

Kicking her out of our home would be tough. We have a 13 year old and I travel on business quite a bit

Have any of the posters suggested that your WW would not be a responsible Parent/Mother simply because she's engaged in an adulterous affair?

Do you assume (or known) that you WW will relinquish Custody of your 13 year old daughter to you...if you do divorce her?

I would assume: IF you wife leaves - she would take her 13 year old daughter with her; unless she is in fact displaying behaviors that would warranty you asking for Full Custodial Custody of this daughter.

Since your wife appears to be off "spinning" during the day - it doesn't appear she works during the day: SO, why can't your WW take care of the daughter, while you travel for work.

I do agree with the other posters:
You have asked for help/suggestions...but you aren't "actively listening" and putting any of this help or suggestions into action.

I know your D-Day was recent - and it's a very difficult time for you, and I'm sincerely sorry for the pain you are going through.
But you must recognize:
You cannot "reconcile" this marriage with a WIFE who does not choose RECONCILIATION, herself.
As pointed out to you:
---Your WIFE is still in "the cheating mode...and she'd rush right back into the arms
(and bed) of the OM if he gave her the slightest indication he wanted to resume this adulterous affair.

SO: YOU must take ACTION to protect yourself and your children legally and financially at this point.

You can't "talk...negotiate...shame...or NICE" your wife out of believing she loves/wants this OM. It's really that simple.

Again, I'm sorry for the pain you're going through -- but you've asked for help/suggestions; and you've been offered exactly that.
I hope you will take the time to stop making excuses about "WHY you can't/won't" listen...and try to do what's in the best interests of you and your minor children.

We are all here to support you.

Onguard posted 6/25/2014 22:42 PM

So the bottom line is that I should take the following steps:

1. Talk to an attorney and file D papers.
2. Tell her my conditions for R. In writing. Sincere remorse, commitment to the marriage, accountability, no more spin classes at that studio.
3. Tell her that unless she accepts these terms then I will assume she no longer wants our M and will proceed accordingly.
4. Call the studio and expose the AP.
5. Close her credit cards that are attached to mine.
6. Separate our assets.
7. Firm 180

What else am I missing? I have an appointment with the attorney on Friday.

Last night she left home at around 5pm without saying a word to me or the kids. At 9pm I texted her to see if she had fed the dog. She replied 2 hours later. At midnight she still was not home. At 3am I found her passed out in the back seat of my car in the garage and totally hammered. Evidently she had gone to a concert and gotten dropped off at 1am but could not get into the house. I had to leave town this morning so I got almost no sleep. She has texted me apologies all day. I have not responded. We were supposed to go to an event this Saturday with friends. I will not be going.

What else can I do besides work on me and my kids? You are all being a great help and I appreciate your time and patience. This is my life and I want to get it right.

mike7 posted 6/25/2014 22:55 PM

if you do the things you just listed that will be a good start.

about her concert last evening. she probably got laid as well. doesn't sound like a good mother does she?

I'm sorry you're going through this. It stops when you decide to stop it. Good luck.

ZedLeppelin posted 6/25/2014 23:08 PM

2. Tell her my conditions for R. In writing. Sincere remorse, commitment to the marriage, accountability, no more spin classes at that studio.
3. Tell her that unless she accepts these terms then I will assume she no longer wants our M and will proceed accordingly.

If she confronts you, do not back down on the above two. The reasoning is that she has to come to you first. She has to show you that she is 100% committed to your marriage, before you can begin building a new one together.

By backing down on the above, you are sort of tipping your hand that you want to reconcile. You have to show her that you are more than capable of moving on from her (even if inside you desperately want to reconcile). When she has shown enough remorse, then you can lay a plan/conditions for R.

Wish you well.

[This message edited by ZedLeppelin at 11:09 PM, June 25th (Wednesday)]

Dyokemm posted 6/26/2014 04:45 AM

She went to a concert and never bothered to inform you she would be gone all evening?

Who did she go with?

If she had any contact with POSOM or any other man I would never even consider R again.

After her A, this is a sign that filing for D immediately and exposing the A and POSOM far and wide should be your next immediate steps.

Stay on the hard 180...if you text her anything it should be a simple message that you are done and filing for D ASAP.

Her concert night escapades (even if there was no A behaviors or actions involved) was her just shitting on your offer to try R.

After these shenanigans, and ASSUMING no adulterous occurred, she needs to come begging for R before you should even consider altering this course of action.

Badhurt posted 6/26/2014 04:56 AM

And you have no idea who she went to the concert with ??? I suggest you find out the answer to that one!!!
If you do not take action Onguard, no ones advice can help you.
Assuming the spinning coach is still not banging her because of his girlfriend, she probably now has another boyfriend . But again, if spinning coach had fight or broke up with gf it could have been him she was with.
I hope she can verify with you who she was with . If you get bull shit like it was a gf, that is a lie. If it was that innocent she would have told you where she was going and with who
On Friday you need to bring the D papers home with you from attorney.
And don't go to the party with her

jb3199 posted 6/26/2014 05:27 AM

What else can I do besides work on me and my kids?

This is a full-time job, friend. And it is the most important thing that you can do right now.

The problem is that you do not have a remorseful wife. You wouldn't be having to lay these demands out, because she would already be working on these...without your insistence.

But, being this is not the case, lay out your demands from your other post, and stick to them. This is not a negotiation process. She will either commit to work on the marriage, or she won't. With commitment comes the terms you described earlier(and yes---it is fucking ridiculous that we have to demand
things such as not screwing other men, abiding by our marital vows, etc.).....and that is that. If she won't comply, then you are left with (2) alternatives---to accept her behavior, or to not accept her behavior.

This is where emotional detachment is critical. It takes time and effort, but lets you see things in a much clearer light. It helps you accept the fact that your marriage way very well be over---but that it is not the end of the world. While life without your wife may not be what you want, you are not doomed to a life of misery.

You have a lot more power than you believe. And the first steps are to enact what you described earlier.

nomistakeaboutit posted 6/26/2014 06:00 AM

I'm joining this discussion late, but I had a couple of thoughts for you.

Another non-negotiable to consider is that she agrees to start seeing a therapist (IC) immediately. She clearly needs some professional help to get herself sorted out and begin to understand "why" she is behaving so horribly. (Note: She needs to do this as an individual and not together with you in. MC. MC could come later,,but would be wholly unproductive at this point.)

Also, I don't know how you can demand remorse. Herein is the biggest problem. I think your biggest hope here would be that over time she "gets it" and becomes remorseful.

Finally, I'd suggest including that she agree to NO future contact with her AP.

I can see you've turned the corner and are headed for action. Change is 'gonna come, my friend. Good for you.

Bigger posted 6/26/2014 06:15 AM

Want to second the suggestion you can’t “demand” remorse.
In fact – IMHO a wayward is incapable of showing true remorse until he/she is along into R. In order to show true remorse you have to understand the scope of the problem.
At first you will be met by regret and remorse, but true remorse… a lot later.

self-rescuer posted 6/26/2014 07:43 AM

The concert/bender last night was bad – very bad.

It must serve as a sign that you will not be able to reason with your wife. There will be no sensible conversations between the two of you. As I said before, she has no idea how her behavior is decimating you.

So, the counsel that was clearly and generously offered by the other SI’ers needs to be followed.

Be clear.

Tell her that you will no longer be disrespected in this way and she meets your terms starting NOW or there will be immediate consequences.

But do not engage her in dialog with the hope of gaining clarity. She will spew anything to cover her trail and her butt. She will say cruel things. She will say contradictory things. She is incapable of having a meaningful conversation at this point. Sadly, maybe never.

This is the hardest time. We all realize your agony and each one of us has been there.

You want your old life back. You want your loving wife back. You want to be the devoted husband we all know that you were.

You are clinging to the hope that somehow your situation is different. We all understand.

Seeing the attorney will be empowering. Disengaging will offer some peace and continuing to lean into the support you have here will provide strength and guidance. And, these SI guys who have become your soldiers in arms, heed their advice. Even though they may come from different angles their suggestions are so valuable. I am still close to those SI people who posted on my threads when I was a newbie. This is a support network that you can trust and truly has your best interest at heart. They will see through this entire difficult journey.

craig2001 posted 6/26/2014 08:35 AM

She has texted me apologies all day. I have not responded.
Sometimes a screw up like this gives you the leverage right back again.

You could use this to find out if she would agree to all of your conditions right now.

See just how sorry she is.

You have the leverage for this one tiny moment. She knows she screwed up big time this time.

She is actually sorry...possible.

This is the day you need to see just how sorry she is. Will she do everything you need now.

The NC
The staying away from that gym
The entire truth once and for all...etc.

Her screw up could give you this one tiny moment of leverage. Unless her sorry's are phony. You will know when you ask her to abide by your requests and now. Not tomorrow or next week, now, today.

annanew posted 6/26/2014 09:44 AM

It seems to me that your wife pulls away when someone else is in the picture and runs back when they drop her. Based on her current behavior, she's still in an affair. Also, stop saying to yourself that she pulled away then had an affair, I am sure it was the other way around. Likely had absolutely nothing to do with your bout of depression. Maybe it was with someone else, maybe with the same guy.

If I were you I'd do some serious digging.

Badhurt posted 6/27/2014 17:02 PM

So Onguard,!what have you done and what was her explanation for the little disappearance the other night?

Hope you have done something other than accept it.

Onguard posted 6/28/2014 07:56 AM

Thanks for checking in Badhurt. I was out of town for the past few days and had minimal contact with her. When I got back to town yesterday afternoon I went to play golf. She texted me about how I have been doing the same thing to her that she did on Tuesday night. Like not letting her know when I was returning and what I was doing. I explained to her briefly that I did not betray her trust by having an affair. I did not disappear from the home without a word and refuse to respond to text messages. I'm not the one who has been undecided about trying to R.

As for Tuesday night. She went with some family and a friend to the concert. She said she was not intentionally trying to hurt me but knows her actions were unacceptable. She said that she was in a rebellious stage but that it will stop immediately. I asked her if she has had any contact with her AP and she still says no. She said that if he tried to contact her that she would tell me. Man, I wish there was a way for me to know for sure. There is a software program called Stealth-Genie that you can put on someone's phone. It will then provide you with copies of all text and imessages from that device. imessages are not traceable otherwise. Does anyone have any ideas for how I could verify NC?

She told me that she was very sorry about her behavior and that it will stop. But she did not commit to anything else. I have an appointment with an attorney on Monday. I am going to see what steps I can legally take to separate our assets and protect myself. I told her that I am not going to the party tonight and she is furious. She is accusing me of just trying to manipulate her and force feelings that arent there right now. I told her that was not the case. I told her that I am moving on with my life as a single person because her words and actions have been clear. You do not value me or this relationship. I have plans with my kids and some friends this weekend. I am trying to be strong and move forward.

Badhurt posted 6/28/2014 08:11 AM

On guard

So she went with a family and friend. Who was the "friend"??
And I suppose some family took their kids to get hammered until 1am I'm the morning. If not, I guess that means she was with the friend, whoever that was .
The explanation. Is unacceptable. You stated it perfectly. You were not the one who cheated so there is no equating anything you do with what she does. She is curious, not remorseful.
You need to go to the lawyer. Hopefully for your sanity you have had enough.
The techies can tell you more about spyware than me. Probably a good idea, especially since you have no idea who the friend was the other night, male or female.

self-rescuer posted 6/28/2014 12:55 PM

Couple of things. You stated that your appointment with your attorney was scheduled for this last Friday but now you're saying Monday. I know things come up in life but please make sure seeing your lawyer is priority #1. It will help you deal with the current mindfuckery you're facing.

Second - she has absolutely NO right to be furious about any decision you make. You're trying to manipulate her?? WTF? She's projecting because she's losing power.

If she was remotely committed to the " never agains" she alludes to, she would have gratefully made excuses to not go to the party and spent the time doing anything that would help mend your heart.

Badhurt posted 6/29/2014 21:47 PM

On guard

She accuses you of trying to manipulate and force feelings that are not there right now. Doesn't that tell you something???
For heavens same, she just told you she does not love you in plain words. And her actions show that statement to be totally truthful. You cannot make her want to be with you. Right now you are on trial when she decides. And when she uses your attitude to disappear on you, she will do the same thing when she wants to bang someone else. She has thrown down the marker, meaning if you don't treat her nice and let her do what she wants you will get more of what you got the other night
You are paying the bills for this.
I hope on Monday you give her a nice surprise of an initial filing for divorce. She deserves it
And you still have not said if the "friend" the other night was a male or female. And can she prove it???

[This message edited by Badhurt at 9:48 PM, June 29th (Sunday)]

Dare2Trust posted 7/1/2014 21:55 PM

On Guard,

What type of family member of "friend" would leave a woman in this condition...and NOT make sure she got into the house, SAFELY...before they simply drove off and left her?
This makes no sense to me!
Family and Friends simply do not behave this way.

Last night she left home at around 5pm without saying a word to me or the kids. At 9pm I texted her to see if she had fed the dog. She replied 2 hours later. At midnight she still was not home. At 3am I found her passed out in the back seat of my car in the garage and totally hammered. Evidently she had gone to a concert and gotten dropped off at 1am but could not get into the house.

Have you talked to the FAMILY she says she attended this concert with to VERIFY her STORY?

damaged71 posted 7/2/2014 19:17 PM


I read your story and felt compelled to respond. I know what you are going through. I had a WW that wasn't real sure what she wanted to do. She caused me untold misery by stringing me along and tossing be tidbits that gave me hope. I tried to "nice" her back for a while.

I know what your future looks like.

On a long enough timeline you WILL get tired of this. Once that happens you will wake up one day and realize that NO ONE is worth the pain you have gone through. This will happen, mark my word. You will get tired of it someday.

The only difference is how much pain you endure before you get there.

For me I realized after she had taken a trip many states away to go home for a week how nice it was not dealing with her bullshit while she was away. I realized then, "Hey this being alone thing is kind of nice". After I had that realization I also realized that I was financing my own misery. When my wife got home I handed her a list of minimum requirements I would accept from my wife. I spelled everything out. I told her "you can do as you wish when you wish but if you violate any of my requests you are CHOOSING to be divorced". I told her that once it was in motion it was irrevocable. I would not ever turn back.

She balked at the list at first. I told her "everything in there is what a husband should expect from a respectful wife and nothing more. I only request the same respect that I freely give you.

I realized that she wasn't the prize, I was. What I had to offer was a good guy, great career, lots of income, family man and faithful. What she had to offer me was a cheating wife that disrespected me and caused me pain. Don't think for a second any of the OM are going to support her like you do. Even she isn't dumb enough to believe they are. She NEEDS you to continue her lifestyle. You are the one that makes it possible.

When you get to the point that I'm talking about, you are going to do what everyone is telling you to do anyway. You are going to say "F*&K This, she isn't worth it". At this point you will gladly file for divorce and dread every moment you are in the same room with her.

You said something very wise earlier. You said something like "maybe we aren't special and like everyone else". This is correct. If you will notice everyone has given you the exact same advice. WE ALL WENT THROUGH EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE. Being nice didn't work for us either. This is your first time going through this. You don't know how this ends. We have gone through it and witnessed it on here over and over and over. We KNOW how this ends. Imagine a horror movie. How many times do you need to see it to know where the bad guy is hiding and what he is going to do?

We are screaming at you telling you the bad guy is behind the door. We know he is there, we have seen this before. He is going to hurt you badly. We are giving you the instructions that will save you, because we have seen this "movie" many times.

You know what keeps me up at night? It isn't the fact that my wife cheated. It's the fact I was in complete control of stopping the pain she was causing me. I look back and wish I would have filed on D-day. I would have been SO much better off.

I'll end with this. The clock is ticking on your relationship. Your wife has to become remorseful and understanding before you absolutely hate her. Once you hate her, that's it. If you get to the point of hate before she wakes up, it's too late. This is already hard enough to get over anyway. If there is any hope of saving your relationship YOU have to wake her up ASAP. Is being nice going to do that?

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