I want off this ride, but it appears I'm welded to it for life.
No, my lovely, you are not. You have a choice. You can get off whenever you like, the power is yours.
My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13
Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.
The hall pass IS NOT CHEATING!!!! It would not be the same at all. I would NOT LIE. Everyone on this site is always saying its the lies that hurt the marriage.
I won't quote individuals but I will try to clarify some things.
I would absolutely make sure the person I *theoretically* would be with was SINGLE. There are a variety of ways to do this...The easiest is to just insist the act take place at their residence. A simple look in the closet will tell you everything you need to know. It was highly offensive to suggest that a hall pass arrangement be carried out on disgusting sites like AM.
Do you condemn those who are in open marriages? If the answer is "no" then you should have no problem with the hall pass. I personally am AGAINST open marriages in general but the IDEA of a hall pass is vastly better than a RA.
I also said quite clearly that I would probably never ACT on it...but it felt better to talk with my H and get one! He knows its a possibility and its now his job to engage in this marriage in such a way as to make me never want to. And I don't mean he has to do everything the way I want or I will redeem the hall pass. I am not spiteful or mean. My H was emotionally distant, selfish, never gave compliments, never said he was sorry...etc. and in spite of that, I have never even considered being with anyone else (and still haven't in a real way). If he stays the H I see right now....actively loving me...I will never want to redeem that hall pass.
His betrayal of me was not because I didn't shine brightly enough, but because he chose to put on blinders.
Wow, holy hot thread!!!
I understand TL. Many of us do. Many of wish there was a way to even the playing field.
But, as you do know like the rest of us, it isnt possible. Not a bit.
You know what girl? Hold that beautiful head high and put a big smile on your face!! As another poster mentioned, you were true and loyal and that does make you the better half!! You will always, always, have that to yourself. Wh doesnt. They damaged us, but they've damaged themselves more. Dont forget it and dont go there.
You know, sometimes, when I've had these same thoughts (and most of us have I think), my children's faces will enter my thoughts and what they would think of me if I did something so deceitful and untrustworthy. It stops my thoughts just. like. that.
Keep hanging on,,,,,,,,
@RIMC - do you not see how bad "hall pass" advice could be to give to someone? May be good for you, but for most this is devastating. Forget the cheating aspect. Let's say hypothetically my wife impulse buys a pool for 40K. If I then use my "hall pass" to buy a 40K car, do you not see that I will be 80k in the hole? It's the same logic in my opinion. More damage does not equal better results for me.
Of course the hall pass is not the best course of action for every marriage....but it is much better than a RA. I simply put it out there as an alternative that is far more honest than cheating.
[This message edited by RipsInMyChest at 3:56 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]
I simply put it out there as an alternative that is far more honest than cheating.
Honest, perhaps. Healthy, no. We all have our opinions here, and I truly hope that people don't regard this as a solution that is going to bring any long term peace. I watched a friend get permission from her WH to have sex with a celebrity in order to "balance the scales". Which she did. At the time she was high off the fun, attention, and perceived control. Then they unraveled faster than most situations I've seen here. He choked and almost killed her in a rage several weeks later. They are now divorced.
I'm not saying that's how it's going to go every time, but we really wouldn't be having this conversation if it were a reasonable solution. It's not healthy or reasonable.
You want the excitement of something new? Get a divorce. THAT is honest. Hall passes are fog-addled excuses to get an endorphin release or to pretend that an element of fairness has been introduced.
Heaven help anyone who doesn't heed the MHers here. I'm very grateful that they have shared their trauma. I KNOW it has kept me from doing something I would regret.
[This message edited by Jrazz at 4:20 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]
[This message edited by rachelc at 4:20 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]
me (WW/BS): 48
4 kiddos in mid 20's
“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”
but it is much better than a RA.
I just don't think it is. How could it be? If still going with my analogy, whether I buy the SUV for 40K (RA) or the Sedan for 40K (hall pass), I'm still 80K in the hole. I don't think most people have that sort of emotional currency especially since their was all used up in the fallout of an A. They are already in major debt.
There are so many more aspects that I could go into here, the ONS aspect, the if this then that, there are so many aspects and they all lead to be being in debt twice as much. Sometimes even more. Not only that, but who knows what sort of other emotional bankruptcy I',m causing someone else if I'm hell bent on a ONS stand. Where does it end? Cliche but an eye for en eye and we call go blind?
If a BS agrees to an "open marriage" after infidelity, I think a lot of times it's because the wayward is manipulating them and convincing them to do it, just so they don't have to feel as bad about what THEY did. And even then all hell could break loose, as Jrazz pointed out.
But obviously, tigrislilium doesn't WANT an open marriage. She WANTS a remorseful, faithful, honest, loving husband, and she doesn't have it right now, so why don't we stick to that?
** Wishing I could post with some authority **
This site is about SURVIVING INFIDELITY, and while I think it's perfectly fine to talk about the FEELINGS of wanting an RA (since I imagine a lot of people trying to R ponder this), actually SUGGESTING a way of sleeping with someone outside the marriage and it being "okay" is just WRONG.
[This message edited by ButterflyGirl at 4:37 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]
I flagged this on page 2 regarding the same thing...this is SI...not letscommitadultery.com.
Thanks for pointing it out again for others to see
My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.
But, there are times that I thought...I would never have a revenge A. I would never go looking for one. But, if there ever came a time in my future that I met someone that I just clicked with...well maybe...just maybe, I wouldn't feel so faithful to my WS. Maybe, I would just say "Hi" back and start my own "just friendship". Hard to stay faithful to something that isn't. Hard to even want to.
There is no even, there is no fair, and there is no comparison of the pain. You will do far more damage to yourself then you can imagine, there are days I can't even look in the mirror. I understand you say you will never do it, I hope you stand by that.
No longer together
"To be loyal to myself is to allow myself to grow and change, and challenge who I am and what I think."
RegretfulHusand: I'm hoping you have me confused with someone else? I was advising the original poster not to have an RA. Just wanted to be sure my point wasn't misconstrued as encouraging an A. It seems to me that an A isn't really a good response to any problem, even a cheating spouse problem. But I also think it's a normal thing for a BS to consider and hopefully, for their own well-being, reject. In my case, having an remorseful WH caused me to take longer to reject it, but I ultimately did and am happy I did. YMMV
ETA: make that an UNremorseful WH. It's late...
[This message edited by My_Name_Is_Alice at 10:33 PM, June 10th (Tuesday)]
I feel your pain and your (normal if not rational) need for everything to be FAIR.
I will tell you what I did. Since my husband had an EA and what was bugging me was the six months of LIES---So I lied to him. I went to the movies or got a massage or slept all day without getting dressed until 4 p.m. or got my nails done, and when he came home and asked me what I had done all day I would say "Cleaned the house" or something. He would look around, puzzled because clearly the house was NOT clean, or whatever, but he would accept it. So he got that feeling of "Am I going crazy?" that I had felt for so long. It lasted less than 2 weeks, and then I was just done. I even told him what I had done. Much later (like a year later) he told me it was maddening to KNOW I wasn't telling the truth but to not know what to say in response. In retrospect it seems very stupid and immature but at the time it was empowering. I am NOT suggesting you do the same, just wanted to share my story and to tell you I feel you.
-He would get to feel the utter devastation he caused me, which he completely deserves and which he is still completely clueless about.
Nah, he'd also feel relief. Whew, he's not the bad guy in the marriage! Now any time you want to talk about his A, in his mind you don't have a leg to stand on. You're both the same. You're both cheaters. He doesn't have to ever listen to a complaint again. Yeah he'd be pissed about another man's hands on you, and since his coping mechanisms tend toward "having an A" - he might feel justified in even more cheating, to get even for you getting even. "Take that - take THAT - ok now you take that and that and THAT!"
-I would get to feel the excitement of having an affair - a titillating secret just for myself - just for the sake of boosting my fragile ego (fragile thanks to WH).
Nope, you'd end up with a skeevy stranger's hands on you as you wondered what kind of man would want to grope a married woman, and then you'd wonder - did your WH do this to the OW? - is this what your WH did that one Friday night he said he was working late? Essentially letting your WH's A run through your head as some random guy texted you dick pics.
Or at least that's how it plays out in my head. It doesn't sound exciting.
*I say this primarily because I feel the lack of morality has already been covered, and I always picture the idea of 'revenge A' as such icky, sad and self-hating sex.
I found out about my XH's affair, and he promised to do whatever it took to fix us. Within a couple weeks, I was being told to get over it, it was no big deal, etc. I remember thinking "Of course he thinks this! I've never cheated on him, he doesn't understand how badly this hurts." So, I told him I was going to have sex with someone else, he said he deserved it, and go ahead.
Eventually "I deserve it" turned into "i don't care, so you can just get over it too". Eventually, he'd fucked his way through the whole place he worked, and pissed off enough people, that he was alone. And THEN what i was doing was a problem. He demanded I stop. I refused.
It never hurt him like it hurt me, because i was blindsided, I didn't do anything to deserve that. He knew why I was doing it.
It gave him ammo to use against me, see...I wasn't any better than he was. We both did it, now shut up. Plus, since it didn't hurt him, he didn't think I had a right to be hurt.
It didn't make things "fair". I was still hurting so badly. And, he didn't think it was fair because I stayed the night with my AP he never stayed all night. My A was with the same guy for 6 months, it was a relationship, which was different, and worse, than his ONSs. He was mad because the AP told me he loved me, while he was only cheating because the chick from work would let him fuck her during CSI. So, once he got mad, mine became so much worse, and was used as justification for the next 6 affairs and to blackmail me with.
It helped my ego, for a few months. I felt great, wanted...and when the AP threw me under the bus, I felt worse than ever. And, when my ex used this to tell me how I was a whore and a slut, and deserved everything I got (including many more ddays, AND abuse) my self esteem became nonexistent. And, when he told my friends, the church, my parents, I pretty much quit leaving the house.
He will never feel what you felt. He will never understand. Please don't have an RA.
He got away with years of selfishness and deceit and now he gets to still have a faithful, honest person standing by his side.
The inequity just takes my breath away sometimes...
I hate this life he chose for me.
The inequity just takes my breath away sometimes...
I hate this life he chose for me.
You get to decide this part. You don't have to live a life he chose. You don't have to stay faithful to an unfaithful man. You can 180 his ass. You can leave him and build a life you choose. You can state your terms and expect him to live up to them, and give him consequences, when/if he can't that don't make things worse, that don't betray your own morals and values, that still allow you to hold your head high.
It will all be ok in the end. If it's not ok, it's not the end
Happily remarried to a wonderful man (Aussie). I think I found the right guy and the right finger this time.
If the WS chose to go elsewhere, then why shouldn't or couldn't we?
Basically it comes down to this.
We are better and stronger people. We hold ourselves to a higher standard and we would never choose to hurt anyone else (WS, children, family, etc.) by our selfish choices. We simply are not wired that way. And that, my friends, is a very good thing.
That is why 99% of us are here. To help, to empathize, to suggest, to encourage, to cry with, to cheer on, to call out, to love, to hold each other up. We simply would NOT do this to another human being.
This doesn't mean that we don't get sick of the sink hole of infidelity we are in. That we don't fantasize about a away out of the hell we are in, or wish we could erase the past. We all do.
It just means in the end - we pull up our big girl or big boy pants and we simply do the right thing for the right reasons. We take care of our families in whatever way we need to, we pull ourselves out of the sink hole, and we face our reality with all we have.
It sucks. No doubt. Everything about it.
But we are stronger than lies.