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User Topic: Addicted?
outtamymind
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Member # 33607
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you believe addiction or addictive personality played a part in your wayward behavior?

I'm not asking if it's the reason you cheated. I don't believe addiction can be the reason someone cheats. But, I do believe I had an addiction to the highs or the feelings generated by my wayward behavior. It played a huge part in the decisions I made....many of them irrational and beyond reason.

I'd like to hear other's perspectives on this.

It's ok if BS's would like to respond.


Me: FWS 45

Divorced


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2011
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have changed my whole opinion on addictions. I think that they are all a choice. As I have been addicted to lots of things. But for me, It is all because I wanted to do these things. Because I enjoyed them too much that it clouded my thoughts. But when I choose to stop, I have stopped all of them, and no white-knuckling. I think that the addictions are only because we do not like the bad feelings of the withdrawal. JMHO


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 707 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
bionicgal
♀ Member
Member # 39803
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H said that he "couldn't stop" the affair on his own, and I believe him. He was hooked, big time. He is the only non-alcoholic in a family of 7 of them, so yes -- I do think he got hooked on the high, and couldn't face the low of giving it up. He thought he was losing something very special - for about 2 weeks.

His AP is also an alcoholic.


me - BS (40s)
DDay - June 2013, A was 2+ months, EA then PA
In MC & Reconciling
An affair is a personal crisis, not a relationship.

I edit, therefore I am.


Posts: 2063 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
FlawedBroken
♂ New Member
Member # 43403
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you believe addiction or addictive personality played a part in your wayward behavior?
I'm not asking if it's the reason you cheated. I don't believe addiction can be the reason someone cheats. But, I do believe I had an addiction to the highs or the feelings generated by my wayward behavior. It played a huge part in the decisions I made....many of them irrational and beyond reason.

I'd like to hear other's perspectives on this.

It's ok if BS's would like to respond.

DISCLAIMER: I'm a SA. I've been sober for 100 days.

I beg to differ with your opinion that an addiction isn't a reason or cause for infidelity.

Sex addiction is just as real as alcoholism or drug addiction and it's just as serious. I know that some people who don't suffer from this disease find it difficult to grasp because it's so abstract.

I simply COULD NOT stop myself from talking to my AP (long distance EA) even though I tried more than once and I WANTED it to end. I was completely out of control and, at times, felt like I was observing myself from the inside. I told my BS that it was like being a conductor on a train where the throttle has been pushed to full speed and then broken. I knew the thing was going to come off the tracks and it was only a matter of when... And I was the person who had opened the throttle and broken the control.

I'm not saying I didn't make bad decisions, because I did and I completely own that. I'm also not saying that my addiction doesn't have underlying causes that I must address. This is critical to any R that might happen, as well as to maintaining my sexual sobriety and continuing my recovery.

It doesn't sound to me like you had any sort of an addiction. You liked the way that your behaviors made you feel. There's a big difference.

I have changed my whole opinion on addictions. I think that they are all a choice. As I have been addicted to lots of things. But for me, It is all because I wanted to do these things. Because I enjoyed them too much that it clouded my thoughts. But when I choose to stop, I have stopped all of them, and no white-knuckling. I think that the addictions are only because we do not like the bad feelings of the withdrawal. JMHO

If you were able to simply stop your behaviors that you believe to be addiction, you weren't addicted. Consider yourself fortunate. We (true addicts) don't do what we do because we ENJOY it. We do it because we CAN'T stop, no matter how badly we want to or how many times we try. Go to any open AA meeting and ask a few people (whether they are new to recovery or 40 years sober) and ask them how much they enjoyed being alcoholics.


SA WH, 41
D-Day 3/9/14
Year long OA

Posts: 14 | Registered: May 2014 | From: NC
outtamymind
♂ Member
Member # 33607
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe addiction is the reason for the behaviors that lead to infidelity.

How is it that you're 100 days sober? By going to meetings and choosing not to act upon your impulses? You choose not to act out.

Cheating is a choice, just the same.


Me: FWS 45

Divorced


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2011
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not me. I'm the opposite of an addictive personality. I'm one of those people who "dabble."

That probably didn't help me. I could lose and gain interest in new things all the time. So when the going got tough, I just moved on yo something else.

I a sure addictive personalities played a role for a lot of way wards, but not all.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 629 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
FlawedBroken
♂ New Member
Member # 43403
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe addiction is the reason for the behaviors that lead to infidelity.
How is it that you're 100 days sober? By going to meetings and choosing not to act upon your impulses? You choose not to act out.

Cheating is a choice, just the same.

It's not that simple. I do go to meetings and I do CHOOSE not to act out. In addition, my BS supports me in my recovery, I'm educating myself about my addiction and how to keep my addict at bay. I also have the unending support of a fellowship of people who have walked the path that I'm currently on.

There were countless times that I CHOSE not to act out... But, you know what? I always did it anyway. I was powerless to control it.

That said, if you've never been an addict or done a LOT of learning about it, I don't expect you to understand. I have a close family member who is an addict who constantly gets clean and relapses. I never understood it until I had to begin facing down my own addiction. It's a powerful monster.


SA WH, 41
D-Day 3/9/14
Year long OA

Posts: 14 | Registered: May 2014 | From: NC
outtamymind
♂ Member
Member # 33607
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we're both saying the same thing. I was asking the question because I do believe addiction to the highs associated with affairs plays a big part in the decisions I made.

Ive seen some comments on here from people saying that we weren't addicted, and that we're blameshifting.

I definitely was addicted. My behavior was completely irrational and without logic.


Me: FWS 45

Divorced


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2011
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My behavior was completely irrational and without logic.
So everyone who acts irrationally and illogically is an addict?

That in itself is poor logic.

I'm going to need it whole lot more evidence than that to believe.

Ive seen some comments on here from people saying that we weren't addicted, and that we're blameshifting.
<Raises hand>, I would be one of those people.

My belief is that too often in modern times to avoid shame, guilt and consequences, people blame 'addictions' or 'conditions' of one sort or another for their bad behaviour.

I have a close family member who is an addict who constantly gets clean and relapses.
Um, that would be physical addiction to a substance, whole nother kettle of fish.
That is a scientifically proven addiction.

So convince me otherwise. Point me in the direction of empirical evidence, clinical studies, anything from a reputable scientific source that provides something to base informed judgement on.
Because when the so called experts can't even agree on whether sex addiction actually exists it makes the waters very muddy.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-sexual-continuum/201307/new-brain-study-questions-existence-sexual-addiction

You never know I may change my mind.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 6:05 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
outtamymind
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Member # 33607
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not necessarily referring to sex addiction. I know very little of the topic.

I'm referring to the highs associated with contact with the AP.

And when I say irrational behavior, I'm referring to the things I said and did to justify my behavior...to justify reaching out to my AP. Obviously all irrational behavior cannot be linked to an addiction.


Me: FWS 45

Divorced


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2011
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm referring to the highs associated with contact with the AP.
I see your point. I think where I have issue is with the definition of 'addiction'.

adĚdicĚtion
[uh-dik-shuhn]
noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

I can understand the 'wanting' the high of the affair(BTDT), choosing to continue because of it and the mental gymnastics that take place to keep getting the high.

However, I just don't see any trauma associated with stopping 'the habit'.

Uncomfortable? Yes.
Severely Traumatic? Hardly.

Or maybe I'm just a hard nosed bastard, who thinks we waywards should all swallow a cup of cement and harden up.


ETA: Perhaps compulsion would be more apt.

comĚpulĚsion
[kuhm-puhl-shuhn]
noun

Psychology . a strong, usually irresistible impulse to perform an act, especially one that is irrational or contrary to one's will.

[This message edited by SlowUptake at 7:05 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Actionsoverwords
♂ Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SAWH here.

I think a lot of other things play a factor.

I can only speak for myself. I have a tremendous sense of entitlement. I would tell myself that I "deserved" sex and if the person I was with was not doing exactly everything that I wanted, I was going to look for it elsewhere. Except, even when they were doing everything I wanted, I still felt that I was entitled to do whatever it was I wanted.

Playing the role of a victim, I justified using sex as medication for my pain. I will say that I have a highly addictive personality and pretty much have been addicted to alcohol, nicotine, narcotics, etc., to numb my core issues.

Now, SA is a compulsion and I would argue that it is a true addiction along the lines of gambling. When I was dating my ex girlfriend years ago, I was carrying on a sexual affair with a woman I found physically unattractive, not very intelligent, but was willing to do anything I wanted. After the initial high wore off, I found it a chore to still see her, but this went on for years. Week after week I would see her, be annoyed about seeing her, and then repeat.

I would also argue that for some people, experiencing discomfort is a trauma of some type, but I think it is incorrect to assume that if a behavior does not have a component of trauma, it doesn't qualify as an addiction.

According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.


Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 272 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
badchoice
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Member # 35566
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My opinion is that, for me, it was an obsession, a compulsion, that grew out of really bad coping skills, and very outdated survival skills, etc. Not an addiction. Those things share some of the same qualities, and only each person can make that call IMHO.

I spent a good time trying to figure out if I was a SA - I spent a week in an in-patient clinic, spent a few months going to SA meetings, and spent time with a CSAT. I know a few SA closely, I believe that they are addicted. for a while i self identified as a SA, but after much work, I realized that I do not fit that profile.

I believe SA is a powerful addiction, just like narcotics, and it triggers the same pleasure centers in the brain. I think the choice to drink, do drugs, to *fill in the blank*, to avoid unpleasant feelings, escape reality, etc, is driven by something. What, I have dug deep enough to know my why, each person has their own.

on another note;
I think the use of terms like SA, NPD, Sociopath, are usually self diagnosed, and its much more likely that during the A, we all displayed some of the characteristics of each, if not all of them. I know I did.

I disagree with the below quote below though;

We do it because we CAN'T stop, no matter how badly we want to or how many times we try.

People stop all the time, they hit bottom or choose to stop, otherwise there would be no one with years of sobriety. It is a moment to moment choice, but a person can make that choice.


Me: fWH/BH 46

Separated transitioning to D


Posts: 730 | Registered: May 2012 | From: L.A.
SlowUptake
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Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would also argue that for some people, experiencing discomfort is a trauma of some type
I would argue that having your underpants riding up your bum crack is a discomfort but wouldn't qualify it as a 'type of trauma for some people'.
Discomfort does not equal trauma, anyway you cut it.
but I think it is incorrect to assume that if a behavior does not have a component of trauma, it doesn't qualify as an addiction.
I didn't assume anything. I took a widely accepted definition of addiction and applied it to a specific circumstance.



Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
Actionsoverwords
♂ Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would argue that having your underpants riding up your bum crack is a discomfort but wouldn't qualify it as a 'type of trauma for some people'.
Discomfort does not equal trauma, anyway you cut it.

Let's say that I am a child and a man comes up to me and touches me inappropriately. I am highly uncomfortable with the situation and can't stop thinking of the feeling of discomfort associated with what occurred. Pretty soon the feeling of discomfort becomes trauma. Everyone reacts to things differently. Telling an off color joke might make some laugh, but could really upset others.

I think we have to accept that some folks are more sensitive then others.


Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 272 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we have to accept that some folks are more sensitive then others.
We have reached agreement.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It doesn't sound to me like you had any sort of an addiction. You liked the way that your behaviors made you feel. There's a big difference.

To further explain, I am an alcoholic. I know that if I have 1 drink, I will not stop. I was a 12 pack a night drinker. I know that if I use drugs 1 time I will not stop. I had a thousand dollar a week habit. If I flirt with 1 woman I will not stop. Always on the prowl for more kibbles. For me no matter what it is. 1 is never enough. When we agreed to get a fish tank. I then got 6 fish tanks even though my wife only agreed to 1. when I started making wine, I was making it by hundreds of bottles at a time. My BS has told me that I have an extreme personality. So maybe for myself it is less of an addiction, but more of a compulsion or greed to have everything. During the times of my "addictions" I wanted to stop doing them, but at the same time I apparently still wanted to do them more. Or I would have stopped. Once the cost of my actions was greater than the pleasure I received from it, I stopped.

Something that helped me through this process. Was all of the things/actions that I held so high, I try to evaluate when I am doing them. What am I actually getting from this? Try to think about about that during sex. It really changes your outlook on sex itself. JMHO


I am no longer Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. I am me, and they are both part of me.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I d


Posts: 707 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 6:48 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

According to the American Society of Addiction Medicine:

Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.

Forgive me, but this group has a very biased reason for wanting to cast a wider net over the term 'addiction'.

Let's say that I am a child and a man comes up to me and touches me inappropriately. I am highly uncomfortable with the situation and can't stop thinking of the feeling of discomfort associated with what occurred. Pretty soon the feeling of discomfort becomes trauma.

A child, not knowing what sex is, suddenly being used as a sexual object in some way, is more than 'discomfort'. It affects the mind, the sense of safety, the innocence of the person. It's very inappropriate, imo, to make the claim that it is merely 'discomfort'.

As for an affair being an addiction, I don't believe it, never have, and I'm certain I never will. People make phone calls because they want to. They go see someone because they want to. There is no physical need to do so, and it's amazing how many addictions end immediately when the BS throws the WS out, or leaves the WS. If it were an addiction, that wouldn't end it. If you think that's all it takes to stop an addiction, ask yourself why alcoholics go to meetings for years, or why heroine addicts need rehab, or why cigarette smokers experience physical changes and often need help getting away from nicotine. These are addictions. Wanting sex with someone other than your spouse, or wanting to bet $500 on the next NFL game? Those are wants, and to me, no matter how much you want them, obsess on them, and finally give in to that obsession, it's not an addiction - it's a want. It's fun.

Compulsion and addiction are not the same things.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
BrokenButTrying
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Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with PP.

With the exception of SA, I don't believe waywards are addicts.

Yes, an A mirrors addictive behaviour and feelings but it is not an addiction. I can see why the word 'addiction' is easy to use because it is a blanket term that seems to encompass the feelings waywards have.

The difference between an addiction and an A is control.
Addicts do not have complete control of themselves. They are not in control of their minds or their bodies. Adulterers are.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of similarities so I can see why parallels are drawn. But affairs and addiction are two different things.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 7:27 AM, June 20th (Friday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1253 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
outtamymind
♂ Member
Member # 33607
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So perhaps "obsession" is a better word.

Either way, I felt like I couldn't control my thinking about my AP. After D-day, I suffered from major withdrawal. I was trying to reconcile with my ex-wife, but the mental part of NC was nearly impossible. After a 3 year LTA, there were just way too many reminders of her. Perhaps I didn't want to try hard enough. It certainly didn't help that we had been in a relationship prior to my marriage to my ex-wife. I had a skewed perception of who she was.

Anyway, I'm just trying to understand what drove me to be so into her. She's nothing special. She's selfish and weak. I regret ever reaching out to her. I let this fantasy destroy my marriage. My ex-wife didn't deserve what I did to her.


Me: FWS 45

Divorced


Posts: 323 | Registered: Oct 2011
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