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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: I could try to R, but why?
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Two months after D-Day#2, and dealing with a TT bombshell two weeks ago, I'm hovering between D and R. I worry that if I say I'm in for months of R, WW will do the very minimum work on herself to get by, and I'll still be wavering and I will still be in the position of leaving her and my two DSs, only with more time wasted and more hurt feelings.

Still having to swallow the hell she put me through without her really owning it. More of her minimization and denial, and more of me having to demand every scrap of change from her. The thought of it makes me sick, but then, so does the thought of giving up and filing for D now and admitting we have a failed family. And this in-between state of neither working on R or filing for D seems like the worst of all worlds.

I hate what she did. I hate the lies, the defenses, the minimization, the TT, all of it. She says she's sorry, will never do it again, is trying hard to understand, etc. But she doesn't seem to "get it" even as she claims that she does get it.

Two days ago she said she "didn't want to be the person who did those things." I asked what she was going to do about it, and her answer made it clear that she had no idea, the question didn't even make sense to her. Apparently she thought that seeing my pain and learning that having affairs using Ashley Madison isn't a good idea would good enough to keep her faithful. She thinks her claims that she's faithful now (which I have reason to believe are true) should be reassuring. I know there are demons inside her that allowed this to happen -- what is she going to do about those?

I'm out of energy and have little if any left to give to this M. I can barely make it to work and get through the day. I can't change her, and I don't know if she will change herself. Why should I risk it? Is is worth any more emotional investment just to get knocked down by more TT or another A or just more signs that she's unable to understand?

[This message edited by mhca at 2:42 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 2:44 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Read the two threads on JFO if you have not already done it
"Before You Reconcile"
"2020 Hindsight"

There has got to be some stuff in there that should help you. Switching threads will not save your health or your marriage. You need to get hold of this before you get sick or have a major health issue.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, if you would R if you saw certain behavior from your W, it sounds like you want R. That doesn't mean you need to commit now. You could simply tell your W something like, 'If I see several months of ____ behaviors from you, I'll be willing to R. Until then, I'm going to work on my own recovery, and I'm willing to work on our M - but there will be no attempt to R unless and until you show me you're fully committed to R.'

Second, it's entirely reasonable to guide your WS with clear definitions of your requirements - for example:

NC with ap
Honesty - answering questions when you ask them, even if you ask the same Q multiple times
Transparency - she keeps you informed of her whereabouts and companions at virtually all times.
IC for her with a goal of changing from cheater to good partner
Release signed by her allowing her IC to talk with you about her goals and progress
MC as appropriate
IC for you, if you desire
...and other requirements you'd like to add.


R works. It's possible for many couples, if they both want it and are willing to do the necessary work.

If you want it and if your W is a candidate, go for it. If you want D, or if your W isn't a good candidate for R, forget it.

But WSes are pretty clueless. If you want R, telling your W what she needs to do is usually a good thing to do.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10166 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
tfkeel
♂ Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is is worth any more emotional investment just to get knocked down by more TT or another A or just more signs that she's unable to understand?

I decided that the pain of the "R" wasn't worth the reward.

That, like you, all I was going to get was more TT,
more blame, and more attempts on her part to feel better by denigrating me.

I finally got the "picture".... that her affairs were driven by "life truths" inside her, and not by external factors such as me, and the kids.


Posts: 460 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
tfkeel
♂ Member
Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is is worth any more emotional investment just to get knocked down by more TT or another A or just more signs that she's unable to understand?

I decided that the pain of the "R" wasn't worth the reward.

That, like you, all I was going to get was more TT,
more blame, and more attempts on her part to feel better by denigrating me.

I finally got the "picture".... that her affairs were driven by "life truths" inside her, and not by external factors such as me, and the kids.

I can't change her, and I don't know if she will change herself.

And, I decided that no change just didn't work for me. I was "doomed" to more affairs, more TT, more lies, and more insults.



Posts: 460 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I figure the only path forward out of limbo is a very clear agreement of what I need and expect. I talked to WW about a plan for reconciliation (not that I've promised it, we're just talking for now). She agrees with all the major points.

I feel like I'm giving something up by keeping the door open to R (maybe just resentment) but I think that if there's hope for the M it requires something like this. And if she can't fulfill what's needed, then I'll have the answer I need and maybe much sooner than if I just let things go as they are.

Anyway, here's the plan I floated.

==============================

Reconciliation Plan
-------------------

(W) - Wife
(H) - Husband
(B) - Both

- Expectations (B)
-- Full effort: no higher priority other than children's critical needs
-- No consultation with lawyers or financial planners

- Attempt R until Jan 1, 2015 or sooner by mutual agreement (B)
- Significant work for six months, with one of two expected outcomes:
-- Shift the M into a stable phase, continue to work on healing, renewal, and growth, but with the expectation that indefinite commitment is restored, or
-- Agreement to terminate the M in as amicable and collaborative a manner as circumstances permit

- No infidelity (emotional, physical, internet, any other) (B)
-- No new infidelities or questionable situations
-- No contact with any AP; any contact attempts to be immediately disclosed. Any AP message must be disclosed and not destroyed. Both partners must agree on any outgoing message.
-- No emotional intimacy with other men outside family, disclose any violations or grey areas (W)
-- Inform partner of any "gray" relationships or conversations (those about non-monogamy, infidelity, divorce advocacy)
-- Eliminate relationships with people that are unsupportive of the M

- Continue work on healing as needed by H (W)
-- Empathetic interaction without resistance (B)
-- Trigger avoidance (B)
-- Delay discussing pre-A problems until both H and W agree (B)
-- Additional reading together up to twice per week about A (B, W to initiate some)
-- Disclose lingering or non-transient thoughts about any AP
-- Make special efforts to prevent or address hurts (after a flashback, leaving a party, turning off a TV show, etc.)
-- Carefully reread NJF after fog fully lifted
-- Detailed disclosure of location and schedule, open access to online calendar
-- Work to achieve closure (H)

- Disclose remaining aspects of A (W)
-- Disclosure based solely on H's stated or expected need to know and not W's interpretation or what is best for her or others
-- Work to recall and disclose all significant details of A (except for sex acts)
-- Work to consider what could be important to H and make sure those details are disclosed
-- Make best efforts to prevent H needing to "stew" on lingering hurts or questions
-- Eliminate defensiveness and excuses
-- Disclose all methods used and expenditures
-- Answer questions patiently, fully, and truthfully, even if they have been asked multiple times
-- No topics off-limits for H to ask, W may defer answers to MC in good faith only (W)

- Earnest attempt to reconcile (B)
-- Wear rings at all times
-- Fully open conversation (with ground rules as needed)
-- Effort to establish intimacy and affection even if doubtful about R
-- After adequate healing, open discussion of existing problems before A
-- Repair and prevent child-centered marriage
-- Work to create equitable balance of each partner's needs without judgment or resistance
-- Work to earn forgiveness (W)
-- Work to grant forgiveness (H)

- Empathy (B)
-- Work to understand the emotional impact of the A (W)
-- Work to understand what it's like to be in the other person's shoes
-- Allow partner to share feelings without fear or invalidation
-- Allow partner to express non-abusive anger without fear or invalidation

- Intimacy (B)
-- Work to overcome fear and resistance to intimacy
-- No conversations with anyone (except family members and therapists) that you wouldn't feel ok telling partner all details
-- No guarantee to others that conversations will not be shared with partner or therapists. If needed, inform others before they talk.
-- No wearing "masks" or "candy-coating" interactions, but also allow for joy and optimism
-- Make best efforts to be known to partner in the deepest sense, even at risk of shame, embarrassment, or fear
-- Create safe interpersonal space for partner to become fully known

- No lies on any topic whatsoever (B)
-- No lies of omission or deliberate misleading
-- Ensure no false impressions based on previous lies
-- Always assume truth is more important than hurt feelings or self-protection. Tact and timing are considerations but are not excuses for falsehood.

- Personal growth (B)
-- Determine and disclose to H what core attitudes and beliefs allowed the A to happen (W)
-- Work to change those attitudes and beliefs (W)
-- Continue IC each week except for unavoidable conflicts
-- Develop and share personal wants, desires, and vision for the future
-- Determine W's underlying need for personal connections and role H needs to have in it (W)
-- Identify and disclose any co-dependent behaviors and work to eliminate them
-- Identify and disclose any FOO issues and address them
-- Develop deep understanding of how to create and maintain healthy marriages

- Relationship building (B)
-- Regular reading together, at least 1/2 hour per week, in addition to A reading
-- Work to be physically close when socializing
-- Commitment to avoid four horsemen
-- Bias to spend time together even if doing different things
-- Work to establish what needs / expectations each partner has of the other, and why (what purpose they serve)
-- Make efforts to appreciate and nurture partner
-- Work on conflict handling / intimacy
-- At least one meal / date out per week without children
-- Develop long term vision for marriage

- Electronic transparency (W)
-- H to know all credentials for all services and devices, no changes without informing H
-- No new or existing accounts on any social media, email, or communications service without H's agreement
-- No deleting texts, or other messages (Facebook, e.g.) without offering to H first
-- No clearing email "trash" folder or deleting individual messages
-- No private browser mode or clearing history in any browser

- Financial transparency (W)
-- Grant H access to W bank website for viewing only
-- No ownership or use of temporary credit cards (B)
-- No new financial accounts without agreement (B)

- Create private zones (B)
-- Calls / written letters to family members
-- Therapists
-- Personal journal
-- By mutual agreement, details of specific conversations / messages

- Sexual health (B)
-- Explore and share sexual desires
-- Discuss ideas and wants openly, not just during sex
-- Disclose and discuss sexual phobias and hang-ups
-- Share what partners find physically attractive and work to address these wants
-- Be open about intentions for sex (signaling during the day, e.g.)
-- Allow for asking about sexual needs without fear of shame or criticism
-- Keep all sexual interactions private between H&W except with therapists

- Other
-- Research whether children could benefit from IC, pursue if appropriate


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what to say about the list. I'm impressed. I'm thinking it should be copied and pasted somewhere... I especially like how you are both included as having to work at it to move forward.

Are some of these requirements dealbreakers for you if she doesn't comply? and what would the consequence be? Divorce? Does she know that?

also, out of sheer curiosity, what do you do for a living?


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5048 | Registered: Dec 2010
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rachelc: I don't know what to say about the list. I'm impressed. I'm thinking it should be copied and pasted somewhere... I especially like how you are both included as having to work at it to move forward. Are some of these requirements dealbreakers for you if she doesn't comply? and what would the consequence be? Divorce? Does she know that? also, out of sheer curiosity, what do you do for a living?

Thanks rachelc. If it's helpful for others I'd be very flattered and happy. If anyone has suggestions to make it better I'd welcome those. I recognize that even though I'm the one hurting more that she can't fix it all by herself so that's why there are the items for me or both of us.

As for dealbreakers, some most definitely are. Any new A would be the end but she knows that. But mainly I think it's a general sense of success or failure. If she doesn't open up and find out why she had the A (other than blaming circumstances) then I can't see us continuing. If we're not becoming a better couple then we shouldn't go on. Etc. She should know this but she's also been in denial to varying degrees and needs reminding I'm sure.

I do worry that we could get to the end and it's not working but she is still in denial and ends up shocked if I turn towards D. But I can't fix her other than by being as clear as I can.

As for my job, I work in a software company with a bunch of software developers. Maybe should've been a lawyer instead...


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
WhereIsHome
♂ Member
Member # 43662
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow plan is awesome.

Easter Weekend dday#2 for me and we have a similar wife she just doesn't get it.

From that plan you drafted looks like you are doing all the work. Seems to me like you are the parent and she is a child much how I feel. Our WWs need to start walking the walk and talking the talk.


I was betrayed - 39
Wayward Wife - 38
D-Day1 May 2011 bought her lies didn't get confirm on 1 till dday2.
D-Day2 Good Friday 2014...Good Friday have to laugh a little on that one.
Daughter #1 Stillborn
Daughter #2 Doing great

Posts: 89 | Registered: Jun 2014
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yeah, i might consider giving her this and saying, "you're in charge of this recovery."


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5048 | Registered: Dec 2010
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Again, I think you should have her sign a release allowing you to talk with her therapist about her goals and progress.

Great plan.

You know you'll just make a start by 1/1/15, right? I assume you'll reset the date as appropriate....

Good luck.

[This message edited by sisoon at 7:36 PM, June 20th (Friday)]


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10166 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sisoon: not sure if her IC would go along with opening the session to me but I'll inquire.

I agree that success would take us well past the new year. But, if we're to fail I'd like to do that quickly, hence the six month milestone. I hope that will be enough time for all the fog to lift and for her to show whether she's capable of what I need from her (and vice versa I suppose).


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

did she give you the identities of the OM? Or is she still placing their well-being over yours?

just letting you know, I don't think you should put up with that shit. the resentment will fester until you can't take it.


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7: yes, I have the names of everyone involved at this point. I'm resentful that it was so hard to get this far as she pushed back every step of the way. But at this point I think I have most of the facts I need. I expect I'll have more questions, and I hope they get answered honestly and without the previous hostility. That's why there are lines on the plan about disclosing more details of the A.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A milestone may help, may not. My point is to approach the milestone with flexibility. If you're not sure at 6 months, you can commit to R or to D, or you can set a new milestone. Don't box yourself in.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10166 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been a stormy week as I've been back and forth trying to decide whether I am willing to put my emotions on the line again and commit to an R process. The latest pendulum swing is to try to work things out, and I'm feeling slightly more optimistic in the last 24 hours. WW and I have gone back and forth a bit on the R plan, but there's general consensus and she says she's all in to make it work if we can. I've been questioning her sincerity and commitment but I'm beginning to think that it's real enough to try to move forward.

Here's the latest state of the plan after going back and forth with her:

Reconciliation Plan
-------------------

(W) - Wife
(H) - Husband
(B) - Both

- Expectations (B)
-- Full effort: no higher priority other than children's or other family members' critical needs
-- No consultation with lawyers or financial planners
-- Promote healing, emotional transparency, honesty, devotion, and new patterns of communication and conflict management

- Attempt R until Jan 1, 2015 (B)
- Significant work for six months, with one of two expected outcomes:
-- Desired: Shift the M into a stable phase, continue to work on healing, renewal, and growth, but with the expectation that indefinite commitment is restored, or
-- Contingent: Terminate the M in as amicable and collaborative a manner as circumstances permit

- No infidelity (B)
-- Includes emotional, physical, internet, any other questionable intimacies with opposite sex.
-- Inform partner of any "near misses", passes, etc.
-- No contact with any AP; any contact attempts to be immediately disclosed. Any AP message must be disclosed and not destroyed. Both partners must agree on any outgoing message.
-- Inform partner of any "gray" relationships or conversations (those about non-monogamy, infidelity, divorce advocacy)
-- Eliminate relationships with people that are unsupportive of the M (Bad MCGF, e.g.)

- Continue work on healing as needed by H (W)
-- Empathetic interaction without resistance (B)
-- Trigger avoidance (B)
-- Additional reading together about A including NJF (B, W to initiate some)
-- Make special efforts to prevent or address hurts (after a flashback, leaving a party, turning off a TV show, etc.)
-- Disclose location and schedule, open access to online calendar
-- Work to achieve closure (H)
-- Expect and allow time for full recovery (B)

- Disclose remaining aspects of A (W)
-- Disclosure based solely on H's stated or expected need to know and not W's interpretation or what is best for her or others; discuss as needed
-- Work to consider what could be important to H and make sure those details are disclosed (except for sex acts)
-- Make best efforts to prevent H needing to "stew" on lingering hurts or questions
-- Disclose all methods used and expenditures
-- Answer questions patiently, fully, and truthfully, even if they have been asked multiple times. Eliminate defensiveness.
-- No topics off-limits for H to ask in good faith, W may defer answers to MC in good faith (W)

- Earnest attempt to reconcile (B)
-- Wear rings at all times
-- Fully open conversation (with ground rules as needed)
-- Effort to establish intimacy and affection even if doubtful about R
-- Open discussion of existing problems before A as needed for reconsiliation
-- Repair and prevent child-centered marriage
-- Work to create equitable balance of each partner's needs without judgment or resistance
-- Work to earn forgiveness for A (W)
-- Work to grant forgiveness for A (H)
-- Work to earn and grant forgiveness for non-A issues identified as important by either partner (B)

- Empathy (B)
-- Work to understand the full emotional impact of the A (W)
-- Work to understand what it's like to be in the other person's shoes
-- Allow partner to share feelings without fear or invalidation
-- Allow partner to express non-abusive anger without fear or invalidation

- Intimacy (B)
-- Work to overcome fear and resistance to intimacy
-- Make no guarantee to others that conversations will not be shared with partner or therapists. If needed, inform others before they talk. Make exceptions for others sharing personal issues for which they need support.
-- From conversations with others, disclose to partner comments, advocacy, or attitudes that conflict with M goals
-- No wearing "masks" or "candy-coating" interactions, but also allow for authentic joy and optimism even in difficult times
-- Make best efforts to be known to partner in the deepest sense, even at risk of shame, embarrassment, or fear
-- Create safe interpersonal space for partner to become fully known

- No lies on any topic (B)
-- No lies of omission or deliberate misleading
-- Ensure no false impressions based on previous lies
-- Always assume truth is more important than hurt feelings or self-protection. Tact and timing are considerations but are not excuses for falsehood.

- Personal growth (B)
-- Understand and disclose to H what core attitudes and beliefs allowed the A to happen (W)
-- Continue weekly IC
-- Develop and share personal wants, desires, and vision for the future
-- Determine each partner's core needs, especially unmet needs, and role other partner should play in meeting / affirming them
-- Identify and disclose any co-dependent behaviors and work to eliminate them
-- Identify and disclose any FOO issues and address them
-- Develop deep understanding of how to create and maintain healthy marriages

- Relationship building (B)
-- Regular reading together (in addition to A reading)
-- Work to be physically close when socializing
-- Commit to avoid four horsemen
-- Develop deep emotional intimacy
-- Bias to spend time together even if doing different things
-- Revitalize and discover new common interests
-- Work to establish what needs / expectations each partner has of the other, and why (what purpose they serve)
-- Make efforts to appreciate, nurture, and cherish partner
-- Creeate better patterns for communication and conflicts
-- At least one meal / date out per week without children
-- Develop long-term vision for marriage

- Electronic transparency (W? B?)
TO DISCUSS: WHAT'S THE LONG-TERM UNDERSTANDING WE WANT? IF TWO-WAY THEN LET'S OPEN IT UP NOW. IF NOT, THEN THIS
CAN BE TEMPORARY AND ONE-WAY.
-- H to know all credentials for all services and devices, no changes without informing H
-- No deleting texts, or other messages (Facebook, e.g.) without offering to H first
-- No clearing email "trash" folder or deleting individual messages (OK to put messages in trash)
-- No private browser mode or clearing history in any browser
-- No new or existing accounts on any social media, email, or communications service without partner's agreement (B)
-- No phones or other communication devices without partner knowledge (B)

- Financial transparency (B)
-- Full access to all bank websites
-- No ownership or use of temporary credit cards
-- No new financial accounts without agreement
-- Disclose up to date balances of all investment accounts (H)
-- Disclose all material investment transactions (H)

- Affirm core values (B)
-- Invest significant time and devotion to partner
-- Attempt to connect with "true love"
-- Develop and use strength to confront relationship challenges and affirm one another
-- Show courage when faced with threats to marriage and self
-- Practice compassionate communication and mutual respect
-- Commit to full healing and living as a team
-- Embrace differences in style and preferences (example: when someone's quiet, ask and not assume other is withdrawing)

- Create private zones (B)
-- Calls / written letters to family members
-- Therapists
-- Personal journals
-- By mutual agreement, details of specific conversations / messages

- Sexual health (B)
-- Openly explore and share sexual desires, both during sex and at other times
-- Disclose and discuss sexual phobias and hang-ups
-- Share what partners find physically attractive and work to address these wants
-- Be open about intentions for sex (signaling during the day, e.g.)
-- Allow for asking about sexual needs or issues without fear of shame or criticism
-- Keep all sexual interactions private between H&W except with therapists

- Other
-- Research whether children could benefit from IC, pursue if appropriate


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, June 26th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

very detailed plan mhca, but i see a lot more with letter B when it is your wife who went on AM and cheated, not you. Seems like she is putting some of the blame for her poor choices on you and to me that is not acceptable. Yes, you have to work on things but she is the WW and your actions should be based on her earning your trust and helping YOU heal from the emotional damage to you, and not on her being allowed to in her mind justify that she had reasons that were acceptable to do what she did.
I'd concentrate more on her behavior and remorse and commitment to YOU and not allow her to blame shift this infidelity as partly your fault. And i sure would have the D papers ready and let her know that there will be severe consequences if you catch her lying to you again.

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
mhca
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Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 12:41 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Badhurt. WW and I had another rough night. I keep on pushing her to show enough empathy and responsibility before I'll agree to start the R plan. She just doesn't seem to have the self-awareness it takes. Maybe soon, maybe never. Til then this plan will have to wait.

I've never hit her, but I asked her if she remembered, very early on in our relationship, when she told me that if I ever hit her she'd leave me. She didn't remember that. I continued, suppose I hit you in the face, hard. And then three months later I did it again. And suppose for some reason you were still willing to consider staying. What assurances should you need? What would you need to be safe? How much work would I have to do to regain your trust?

I think maybe she got the connection to my pain from her A and false R. I can't be sure. Til I see her ready to do the work I'll stay in limbo -- or just switch to the D track.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 643 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Badhurt
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Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mhca

You had another rough night because she still wants to rug sweep and not be accountable for what she did. There can be NO BLAMING you. You might not have been fulfilling all her needs but she was not fulfilling yours either. YOU HOWEVER DID NOT GO ON AM AND CHEAT TWO TIMES OR MORE!!!

If she wants R there should not be rough nights i think you should scrap the plan you wrote up because that plan puts you on trial for 50% when you had 0% of cheating.

You need to make it clear that if there is not
TOTAL TRANSPARENCY
REMORSE FOR WHAT SHE DID
NO CONTACT WITH ANY MALES ALONE OR ONLINE
COMMITMENT TO YOU AND YOUR MARRIAGE
Then there can be NO R.

I guess you are not fond of how the "limbo" feels. No one would blame you for that.

If you do not get the above, then you will be in limbo until she decides to find another man to sneak around with.

See the attorney Monday and give her the papers the next time you have a rough night. That will either knock her ass out of the fog or you will have your answer that she ain't changing.

Limbo means she is still in control and you continue to suffer. Not acceptable!!!


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
craig2001
♂ Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:07 AM, June 28th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think maybe she got the connection to my pain from her A and false R.
Too many times the WS gets it and then forgets it.

I have no answer as to why that seems to be the problem with trying to get through to them about the huge amount of pain affairs cause.

It does seem the WW hears what we have to say, yet it doesnt register with them. But when they hear or read the exact same thing from someone else, it then registers.

I dont think they like the pain they caused the BS, so they tune it out. Like having the radio on in the background but not even paying attention to the song.

Has your wife read any books like Not Just Friends and some of those. I think After the Affair is another one.

Those books are pretty good at getting the point across as to how the BS feels.


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