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User Topic: I am not broken, or flawed. I am not a bad person.
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Question  Posted: 3:59 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The topic of this post is my homework assignment, today, from Shrink #2. I'm supposed to develop an internalized belief that I'm not broken, and not a bad person. He's tasked me with writing a statement describing why "I'm flawed" and "I'm a bad person" are irrational thoughts not worth having. That it would be in my best interest to replace those thoughts with a statement such as, "I am *just human,* with many positive attributes, and some characteristics that I've targeted for improvement." The bad choices I've made were because I was operating from faulty data, not because I'm a bad person. I lied, stole, cheated, because *where I was at the time,* vibrating at that frequency, those seemed like logical choices. Garbage in, garbage out.

From about age 18-41, I identified myself as a high-functioning, mostly-law-abiding sociopath. A solipsist. I've always considered myself deeply damaged, borderline evil, and I embraced my dark side. When I was about 6-7 years old, I stood up to a grown man, a pedophile who had been grooming and abusing me for a long time, and I said, "No. No more." At that moment I became impenetrable. And my entire life I haven't given a fuck about what you meat puppets think of me. You and your silly, weak human emotions could kiss my ass.

I have lied. I have stolen. I have used people, for money, for sex, for thrills. I am fundamentally flawed. Deeply damaged. Broken. I am, and always have been, a bad person. Pragmatism, not scruples, has (mostly) tempered my behavior. Kept me out of prison, or the nuthouse. Enabled me to, outwardly, appear successful and reasonably well-adjusted.

I am not a bad person. I am not broken, or flawed. Rationally, logically, it does make sense. But the internalized belief? Nope. Not there.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1165 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That is a tough homework assignment but your IC is pushing you, which is good.

I don't think anyone is a 'good person' or a 'bad person'. It doesn't work that way. Everyone is a mix of both and our behaviour reflects that. I agree with your IC we are just people.

To use you as an example 20w, you have listed behaviour that is bad but there is also a lot of good in you... your compassion, patience and kindness is demonstrated every time you post on here. Your two amazing kids are living proof of your love.

You've done bad things, you've done good things. Perfectly imperfect. Human. Just as you should be.

Ask yourself if you were a 'bad person' would you be striving so hard for change?


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20wrongs, I can relate to much of your post. That being said: I agree with BBT that few people are completely bad. I do believe there are some. But I don't think you'd be working to better yourself if you were one of them.


Me: XWS, 30s, 5-month EA/PA in '09-'10
Husband: XBS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciled and remarried.


Posts: 2129 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
floridaredman
♂ Member
Member # 15122
Default  Posted: 5:06 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez 20v1,

I'm waiting for Max Von Sydow, Linda Blair and a can of pea soup to appear on my screen.
I do understand though


The simplest thing can be the hardest thing to do....FRM

Posts: 2492 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Florida
Amazingyetlost
♀ Member
Member # 43745
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your "therapist" is an idiot. Try to get your money back and find another.

Listen, to be the person who is the best you is to actually acknowledge the flawed, the insecure, and what those things do to you and your choices.

Do you really want to get to the root of why you did what you did, and develop a compassion and understanding for the person you hurt? Then get in touch with shame. Shame is the part of you that feels unworthy, insecure, that pushes you to find confirmation in cheap shit -- like your A partner.

Looking at the core of yourself that you have pushed down for so long is really difficult.

Do you have the courage to do so?


ME: 58 BW
HIM: 57 EA & PA, ten months (madboomer)
Married: December 24th, 2013; Together: 4 years
D/Day: June 3rd 2014 (karma allowed that it happened on OW birthday); NC June 4th 2014
"Once in a while you get shown the light..."

Posts: 155 | Registered: Jun 2014
WalkinOnEggshelz
♀ Member
Member # 29447
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And my entire life I haven't given a fuck about what you meat puppets think of me. You and your silly, weak human emotions could kiss my ass.

I seriously doubt that can be entirely true because as BBT stated

if you were a 'bad person' would you be striving so hard for change?

If you are having a really difficult time with convincing yourself that you are a good person, try to change the wording a little bit. "I am a person, a human that is striving to better myself. I am a work in progress and I continue to grow each day that I put effort into the process. I no longer lie, cheat, or steal. I can no longer justify those actions because today I know better".

It doesn't have to be absolute does it? I don't believe life is only black and white. There are several shades of gray and you can choose a narrative that works for your specific situation while staying true to who you are.


Me: WS 42
Him: BH 43(HoldingTogether)
M: 18years, together 22
2 Daughters: 13 and 10
D Day: 7/24/2010; TT to 10/17/10
If you keep asking people to give you the benefit of the doubt, they will eventually start to doubt your benefit.

Posts: 679 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Texas
DixieD
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Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And my entire life I haven't given a fuck about what you meat puppets think of me. You and your silly, weak human emotions could kiss my ass.

We should have hung out Sorry not trying to make fun, just relating. 20, you are a no nonsense person and I like that.

Growing up I think I had some integrity in some ways and it saved me from thinking I was completely broken. I knew I had issues, I didn't care what people thought about me but I cared what *I* thought about me, so I got by.

My husband had shame that he couldn't identify with and buried, he cared what other people thought about him, so to overcompensate he convinced himself he was a good/flawless person. He needed that.

We've had some discussions about this and this is why I'm bringing it up. Sometimes a WS will come on here and say "I made mistakes but I'm not a bad person". It like they are holding on to that like a floatation device. My husband said if he had held onto that belief he wouldn't have found remorse or made changes. That thinking would have held him back. He had to be broken down and admit to himself he was a bad person. And then he made the decision to change that and he has. Luckily he didn't stay locked in shame. He is no longer a 'bad person'. He's seen the changes that suggest this to be true.

So can you say you WERE a 'bad person' in the past but are not now? Which is slightly different than the idea of a person who was flawed and made mistakes. Can you see the changes you've made?

Does it have to be an all or nothing thing -- I ask because my thinking has usually been all or nothing too. Some concepts are more difficult for me to embrace.

Sorry, I don't know if that made any sense whatsoever.

ETA: Woes explained it better. She usually does

[This message edited by DixieD at 5:23 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Amazing - 20wrongs is a long time out from Dday. She has worked very hard on finding her why, on changing her behaviour. She gets it, more than most.
Like many of the waywards here, who are in R with their spouse, she is at a stage in her healing of acceptance, forgiveness and reconciliation with herself.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I am a person, a human that is striving to better myself. I am a work in progress and I continue to grow each day that I put effort into the process. I no longer lie, cheat, or steal. I can no longer justify those actions because today I know better".

It doesn't have to be absolute does it? I don't believe life is only black and white. There are several shades of gray and you can choose a narrative that works for your specific situation while staying true to who you are.

WOES said it beautifully.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1234 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Joanh
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Member # 39146
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20W hmm

You have helped me many times in the last while. Thank you.

For you to be that person who doesn't give a shit, hmm is a contradiction toyour actions and words on SI

However, I understand some of your thoughts and feelings.

Trying to reconcile I am bad to Ihave done bad things.

My IC has put some perspective or reframed it for me. NOW its more psychology , but...... I do believe there is some truth and fact to it.

When we are children we operate emotionally, spiritually and mentally on a me and our small little world. Which on the norm includes people who are there to protect us. Sometimes that gets screwed up and messed up because of those people caring for us or being around us in our space. WE just don't understand. So we compensate.

We protect ourselves. And guess what it works!!

A lot of my coping skills worked. Kept me safe from harm as my basic being, that small child or the id or super id what ever its called believe it to be. Bad coping is to keep yourself safe. Sheltered , distance, not caring. Cause to care to love, to give 100% has screwed yourself time and time again. So not caring stealing, treating cheating all of that keeps people away or keeps yourself from caring.

Does that make a person bad NO the actions bad, well yes .

But that does not make you evil or horrible. It meant you used fucked up coping skills to keep yourself safe. Screwed up messed up yep, but not evil and not a psycho. So unless you messing with us. I'm thinking your in the clear. :-)

Still I do understand the struggle. I go through it myself.


BH 39
WW 43
D day November 9, 2012
3 children 22, 8, 6
Just....

Posts: 435 | Registered: Apr 2013
Sad in AZ
♀ Member
Member # 24239
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez. Amazingyetlost, are you a psychiatric professional? If not, please don't denigrate what 20Wrongs' psych told her. It sounds like he was on target.

From about age 18-41, I identified myself as a high-functioning, mostly-law-abiding sociopath.

The operative point is that it was your identification. Sort of a self fulfilling prophesy. Yeah. You were a badass, but you knew what you were doing was wrong. That's what separates you from a sociopath. They know whatever they do it right. There's not introspection, no empathy, and really, no cure for them. They don't just 'change'. I never say never, but I'd come close with a sociopath.


I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.

Posts: 20146 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Upstate NY
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 6:16 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listen, to be the person who is the best you is to actually acknowledge the flawed, the insecure, and what those things do to you and your choices.

Listen, for her to be the person who is the best her, she has to go thru this process. This is actually a very good exercise for 20wrongs. If you knew her history, you would know that. Please, calm yo jets.

I don't have advice 20. I'm the opposite. I'm too emotional. You've gotten mostly good advice so far. Heed their words. Baby steps.


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6221 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
redsox13
♂ Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 6:24 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having run across a few as a Prosecutor, my understand is the defining characteristic of a sociopath is a lack of empathy. I had a psychiatrist tell me a sociopath is someone who sees a car accident and looks at the onlookers to see their reaction so they can mimic it later without caring about people inside of the car.

Is that really you? I was told there was no treatment for sociopaths - it is impossible for them to develop empathy. But your story says you are developing empathy. I see it in your comments - they exhibit a connection to other people a true sociopath would never experience.

You are not the person who you believe you are. It is probable that you never were - which must have at some level been the source of significant pain - pain which a true sociopath would never feel.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 6:28 PM, June 19th (Thursday)]


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 247 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, June 19th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That was quick, thanks y'all. FTR, I still don't devote much headspace to what people think of me, but I'm intensely focused on hearing others' feelings instead of merely their words, and as a result IMHO am becoming remarkably empathic.

((BBT)) you are so sweet, and wise beyond your years. And thanks (several of you) for the rebuttals, but all I heard in Amazing's post was projection and displacement (with a side of judgment), which isn't uncommon for a BS so close to DDay.

My husband said if he had held onto that belief he wouldn't have found remorse or made changes. That thinking would have held him back. He had to be broken down and admit to himself he was a bad person.

DixieD, well put, I agree, and I sorta feel like I'm reaching a milestone here. A necessary part of the journey.

WOES, can I copy off your paper?

JoanH, you and I joined SI at the same time, and I've always related to a lot of what you're going through, thank you.

But that does not make you evil or horrible. It meant you used fucked up coping skills to keep yourself safe.

Yep. Being strong, and suppressing my feelings, were appropriate coping skills for circumstances that existed at one time. Developing mature coping skills is a big part of what I'm working on in (and out of) IC.

Sad in AZ and RedSox, yes I have been officially diagnosed "not a sociopath" by two shrinks, and I don't label myself that way anymore.

You were a badass, but you knew what you were doing was wrong.

But I genuinely never felt guilt, about anything, until like 6 months ago. That, in part, is why I'm struggling a bit now. I look back, not just to the A's but years before, and cringe.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1165 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listen, to be the person who is the best you is to actually acknowledge the flawed, the insecure, and what those things do to you and your choices.

Do you really want to get to the root of why you did what you did, and develop a compassion and understanding for the person you hurt? Then get in touch with shame. Shame is the part of you that feels unworthy, insecure, that pushes you to find confirmation in cheap shit -- like your A partner.

Yikes.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you suggesting that getting in touch with your shame and addressing it, and ultimately letting it go to accept yourself as you are is the goal? If so, I'm with you.

However, if you're suggesting that the exercise 20Wrongs is going through is counterintuitive to that process, I have to disagree.

Shame is what allows you to believe that you will never be good enough, and IMO can make it easy to excuse all kinds of crappy behaviour. Learning that you aren't perfect and, like everyone else, can make bad decisions and learn from them and do better is much more helpful. That is what I took away from the description of the exercise.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1732 | Registered: Nov 2010
dana47
♀ Member
Member # 43711
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is so honest. Thank you for sharing as I myself identify with some of your inner emotion. It's terrible how cruel adults can f*#× up people for a lifetime.

Posts: 56 | Registered: Jun 2014
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, June 23rd (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20, I spent much of the weekend thinking about the advice I got on SI last week. Mainly to stop focusing on what I don't have, and focus on what is good and how the whole is much bigger than the small missing portions. It really helped me.

You may have only started feeling true remorse for your A behavior recently, but I'm guessing you felt love and nurtured your children prior to 6 months ago. You must have done something right if they are sweet and fierce. I'd bet there's nothing borderline evil in those relationships. I'd also bet there are many facets of your life that operate on a non-evil level. And I see the advice you put out here on SI, it's thoughtful and most importantly constructive. Self mother yourself. What would you tell little DD if she was saying these same things to you?

Just 2cents from someone who is trying to see the glass half full as well


Posts: 197 | Registered: Mar 2014
Topic Posts: 17

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