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User Topic: Faith. My lack of it.
Actionsoverwords
♂ Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good evening, folks,

I had a session with my CSAT today and we talked about faith and belief in a higher power. He told me that folks in 12 step programs believe the program works because they are able to "turn it over." I have been working the steps and recently, when I was working on step 2 (I came to believe that a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity), I found this step extremely difficult. At every turn I was resistant to turning it over.

As I told my CSAT, I don't trust anyone, myself included. Number 1, where was my higher power and God when shit was happening to me? Where was he when I was a young boy and getting beaten and kicked across the room by a grown man while my mother watched? Where was he when my step-father was abusing me? Where was he when I was in so much mental anguish? How can I turn it over?

I added that while I do think that there is a higher power out there, I believe him to be impotent and although he might be all seeing, he is not able to lift his hand to guide or help.

Driving home today, I began going into my fantasy mode where I sexualize women I see and I used some tools to interrupt those thoughts, but I just started to think that I am so sick of being a slave to this addiction. I hate it. It is so draining and I just felt so damn defeated and I didn't think that there was any way I was going to beat this. That in turn, starts to suicidal thinking and then the mental battle to pull myself back.

It wasn't until I saw my BW and DS that I was back in reality and told myself that I can't off myself, I have to fight.

Question for all out there. Do you have faith? Do you not? How do you believe if you have faith? How do you get by if you don't have faith?


Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 257 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
bookjunkie
♀ Member
Member # 39033
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have faith. I believe that God guided me to confess my affair and has helped to keep us together. I know at the time that my H had no clue what I was doing and there was no reason to confess. and when God spoke to me "You have to tell him", I knew I had to. I turned it over to Him and trust His judgement. I had no reason to believe my H would stay with me since he had always said he would divorce me if I ever cheated. But I had faith in God's wisdom and we are still together today 1 1/2 yrs later. My H is doing well, has accepted what happened without rugsweeping it and has forgiven me.

Because I truly believe that God spoke to me that day, I can't imagine trying without faith. I also believe that had my H ended our M, i wouldn't be here today. I think I would have eventually taken my own life. I think I would have continued my downward spiral and self destruction. It would have been just a matter of time until I wouldn't have been able to live with myself.


WW 43 (me)
BH 45
Married 24 yrs
3 kids
DDay 2/10/13 Confessed
Reconciling

Posts: 63 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Southern USA
hopefull77
♀ Member
Member # 43221
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Richard Rhor has daily devotionals that I have been reading for quite a few months now...all this week he has been going through the 12 step program....look him up...
I personally could not be where I am without my faith
Just this week i learned of a family whose 2 year old drowned in a pool...that can definitely make someone question their faith...but faith in the long run will eventually get them through this....
let go....let God...or a belief in something bigger than you....
I wish you peace....


me-BS
him-WS
3 adult children 1D 2S
married-1977
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr



Posts: 556 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
walktheline
♀ New Member
Member # 43408
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible that you can say there are powers higher than yourself that can restore you to sanity, but those powers aren't necessarily God?

Like….your therapy is a tool, and your sponsor (if you have one) is a tool, and the love of your friends and family, and the kindness of strangers, and the beauty of a sunrise -- these are all things that can bring us closer to believing that the world has the power to cause good things to happen. They're things that can bring you strength to carry on.

It may sound stupid to say, "I give the power of my addiction over to the beauty of a sunrise." It probably is. But to say, "There is good in the world that can be used to heal me, and the people in my life are going to help me get there," maybe that's enough?

Not sure if any of this is helpful.


fOW/fWW - 30.

Married to amazing new H who is not a BH and never will be.


Posts: 19 | Registered: May 2014 | From: walktheline
sunnyrain
♀ Member
Member # 30164
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you. I totally lost my faith prior to getting involved in my affair. I'm slowly working my way back to "normal" and have been using the 12 step program as well.

Like you, I felt like God had let me down all through life. Then, I decided maybe God was just having an "off" century (or so) and maybe I should cut him some slack.

Anyway, from how I understand the 12-steps, each individual can decided for themselves who/what their Higher Power is. Some days, my Higher Power is coffee. No joke. It's amazing what can save you.

Wishing you luck. Hang in there. You can do it! I have faith in you.


"I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne."

Posts: 382 | Registered: Nov 2010
steadychevy
♂ Member
Member # 42608
Default  Posted: 10:00 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have faith in God. I am a born again Christian. I was raised in a Christian family, went to church regularly, etc. etc. I was of the Christian faith until I turned my life over to Jesus. John 3:16. I am a BS. Being a Christian, believing in God does not mean life does not happen. It does not mean bad things will not happen to good people. God will not intervene so you can have the perfect life. It means that God will be there to carry you through the "valley of the shadow of death". He will help yopu cope. He will help those who help themselves. This is a difficult concept, I think. Why do I have to deal with infidelity? My WW is also a Christian. Why couldn't God have intervened? Right now I talk less with God than I used to. I hardly ever talk with him now (9.5 months post DDay). Yet this is when I need him the most. However, I think he may well be carrying me through the "valley of the shadow of death". God will be with me whatever the outcome of this devastating experience. Whether I R or D. He will not intervene but will, when asked, provide strength to deal with what life sends your way.

Ted


BH(me)63
WW-57
M 37 years
DDay1-09/1/13;DDay2-10/13;DDay3 12/19/13
LTA-09/02-11/02 EA;12/02-?/06 PA
OM -COW
"dates" w/3 former lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment;years of lies, denial

Posts: 97 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Canada
Maxiom
♂ Member
Member # 26001
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You don't require faith in a higher power to conquer an addiction. There are secular alternatives to 12 step programs which I believe you may find more helpful.

12 step programs work for many but not all. I suggest you will have the best chance at success with a program that attends to who you are as an individual.

You are not powerless when faced with any addiction. It does not have any more power over you then you are willing to give it.


Me: FBS/WS 41
Her FWS/BS 41
My DDay - March 10, 2007 Whole Truth - May 2007
Her DDay - March 2, 2011
True NC March 3, 2011

Posts: 462 | Registered: Oct 2009 | From: Canada
Wayflost
♀ Member
Member # 41583
Default  Posted: 10:41 PM, June 20th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I too have trouble with that concept. But I like the ideas walktheline posted in terms of seeing beautiful things in the world as the healing, "greater power."

The 12 step program I'm working seems to be extremely flexible on that point. The part I must be careful about is allowing another human being to fill that role. My higher power doesn't have to be god, per se. It just has to be greater than a single human being.

Strangely enough, despite never believing in god, I have always believed in some forms of karma.... so who knows.

Good topic, thanks for bringing it up.


Me: WW
Him: BH (totalheartbreak)
Both: 30s

Appalled by my actions, and the choice to set off several atomic bombs in my life.


Posts: 399 | Registered: Dec 2013
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 1:45 AM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm an athiest. My mum is Catholic, I was brought up as such. Did my Holy Communion, Mass every Sunday and went to a faith school.

I don't remember making a conscious decision not to believe, I just never did. I always had so many questions. Faith is just something I don't have.

It's not scary for me not to believe. I don't feel alone, I have my family. I have a realistic faith in people (realistic in the sense that I know humans are not perfect and everyone is capable of bad things). There's good and bad in the world and I'm ok with that.

If I had to define myself as something, I'm more of a humanist than anything else.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 1:46 AM, June 21st (Saturday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
Red Sox Nation
♂ Member
Member # 26358
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I view faith as a negative. I like discovering things for myself. I move forward because the thought that everything is pre-determined and all the answers are known or even knowable would suck all the life out of me. Or that there's a higher power that picks winners and losers and sometimes kicks little kids? Ugh. Not a world that I'd want to live in.

As it relates to infidelity, well, I didn't know everything about relationships or people or specifically, my ex, before we married. That's impossible. Sometimes basic incompatibilities are difficult to find. We learn through experience and genuine introspection.

Every day, we learn more about the world and about ourselves and the people around us. The apple of knowledge is beauty itself.

So, I'd turn your question around... how do you get by if you do have faith and you're on the receiving end of so much pain? How do you get by if you have faith and you do a little reading and learn about areas of the world where just getting through the day is a real trial?


When someone tells you who she is, listen; when someone shows you who she is, listen carefully.

Posts: 1882 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: Midwest
caspers1wish
♀ Member
Member # 28720
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I struggle with faith as well. My parents were very religious. As a child, I could feel the hypocrisy of sitting in the pew next to my father every weekend. My mother urged me to pray, and I did. And I was still going through awful abuse. To a child, it seemed so unfair, such a hoax.

Now that I'm older, I struggle with "religion" not so much about faith. I believe in a higher power, not sure it's God, but something greater than myself. When something happens that is completely out of my control or I truly cannot control the outcome, I can turn it over, but it's more about me just letting go of control and finding peace in that. My mother would tell me to give all my problems over to God. It's kind of like that, in a way.

It's also taken me a long time to realize that your prayers seem to go unanswered, but it takes time. Things happen when they are supposed to. I don't believe in God, but when I look into my children's abuse free lives, it feels awful to say I don't believe. So that's the kind of relationship I have with faith, back and forth, give and take. It's not problem free, it doesn't solve all my problems or make everything better, but it's my own personal relationship and struggle.


Me - FWW (35)
Him - BH (34)
Kids - Ages 6, 8, 10
Married 13 years, together 18 years.
Last D-Day - November 2008

Posts: 763 | Registered: Jun 2010
Actionsoverwords
♂ Member
Member # 41949
Default  Posted: 11:41 PM, June 21st (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First off, I want to thank each and every one of you for responding to this thread.

I have faith. I believe that God guided me to confess my affair and has helped to keep us together. I know at the time that my H had no clue what I was doing and there was no reason to confess. and when God spoke to me "You have to tell him", I knew I had to. I turned it over to Him and trust His judgement. I had no reason to believe my H would stay with me since he had always said he would divorce me if I ever cheated. But I had faith in God's wisdom and we are still together today 1 1/2 yrs later. My H is doing well, has accepted what happened without rugsweeping it and has forgiven me.
Because I truly believe that God spoke to me that day, I can't imagine trying without faith. I also believe that had my H ended our M, i wouldn't be here today. I think I would have eventually taken my own life. I think I would have continued my downward spiral and self destruction. It would have been just a matter of time until I wouldn't have been able to live with myself.

bookjunkie,
That was a courageous thing that you did and I am glad that you and your spouse are healing. I can see why faith is a guiding light in your life.

Richard Rhor has daily devotionals that I have been reading for quite a few months now...all this week he has been going through the 12 step program....look him up...
I personally could not be where I am without my faith
Just this week i learned of a family whose 2 year old drowned in a pool...that can definitely make someone question their faith...but faith in the long run will eventually get them through this....
let go....let God...or a belief in something bigger than you....
I wish you peace....

hopefull77,
I tried searching for RR, but I only found 2 of his daily devotionals. Would you happen to have a link? I spoke to BW last night about God and HP and I am still trying to formulate just exactly what my HP is, but a AA quote that I read today is pretty apt. If I am on a path with no obstacle, I am on the wrong path.

Is it possible that you can say there are powers higher than yourself that can restore you to sanity, but those powers aren't necessarily God?
Like….your therapy is a tool, and your sponsor (if you have one) is a tool, and the love of your friends and family, and the kindness of strangers, and the beauty of a sunrise -- these are all things that can bring us closer to believing that the world has the power to cause good things to happen. They're things that can bring you strength to carry on.

It may sound stupid to say, "I give the power of my addiction over to the beauty of a sunrise." It probably is. But to say, "There is good in the world that can be used to heal me, and the people in my life are going to help me get there," maybe that's enough?

Not sure if any of this is helpful.

walktheline,
I don't think that any of the things that you said are stupid. In fact, BW and I spoke about exactly what you mentioned and it resonated with me. Part of me was thinking that there is a collective goodness in the people that I have encountered on my path to recovery. They have been there to support me and help me and it gave me something to believe in.

I hear you. I totally lost my faith prior to getting involved in my affair. I'm slowly working my way back to "normal" and have been using the 12 step program as well.
Like you, I felt like God had let me down all through life. Then, I decided maybe God was just having an "off" century (or so) and maybe I should cut him some slack.

Anyway, from how I understand the 12-steps, each individual can decided for themselves who/what their Higher Power is. Some days, my Higher Power is coffee. No joke. It's amazing what can save you.

Wishing you luck. Hang in there. You can do it! I have faith in you.

sunnyrain,
Having an "off" century. I can actually relate to that! I demand so much of everyone in my life, yet I am the one who is constantly letting people down. Not saying I am God (contrary to my narcissistic complex), but I never thought of it like that. I can also relate to designating coffee as my HP. Thanks for your perspective.

I have faith in God. I am a born again Christian. I was raised in a Christian family, went to church regularly, etc. etc. I was of the Christian faith until I turned my life over to Jesus. John 3:16. I am a BS. Being a Christian, believing in God does not mean life does not happen. It does not mean bad things will not happen to good people. God will not intervene so you can have the perfect life. It means that God will be there to carry you through the "valley of the shadow of death". He will help yopu cope. He will help those who help themselves. This is a difficult concept, I think. Why do I have to deal with infidelity? My WW is also a Christian. Why couldn't God have intervened? Right now I talk less with God than I used to. I hardly ever talk with him now (9.5 months post DDay). Yet this is when I need him the most. However, I think he may well be carrying me through the "valley of the shadow of death". God will be with me whatever the outcome of this devastating experience. Whether I R or D. He will not intervene but will, when asked, provide strength to deal with what life sends your way.
Ted

Hi Ted,
I guess for me, religion and faith has always been foreign. My family did not attend religious services ever. In fact, I guess you can say that I grew up in an amoral household. I am not trying to be funny, but I did not find out that we were collecting welfare or on food stamps until I applied for a job that required a background check (we didn't need it, everyone owned their homes in our family, everyone had a decent job). More recently, at a family BBQ, a discussion was had about money laundering and whether it was worth the risk (step-father had a scheme). It's been difficult for me to accept that God will see me through my difficult times because even if I can accept the fact that he didn't intervene and would not intervene when I was physically abused, how did he carry me through the dark times? I don't know, I guess God is not for me?

You don't require faith in a higher power to conquer an addiction. There are secular alternatives to 12 step programs which I believe you may find more helpful.
12 step programs work for many but not all. I suggest you will have the best chance at success with a program that attends to who you are as an individual.

You are not powerless when faced with any addiction. It does not have any more power over you then you are willing to give it.

Maxiom,
I am also attending a secular program, SROL. I like certain aspects of the program and the self-empowerment is definitely a change from 12 step. I guess beyond recovery, I am looking to get in touch with my spiritual side and this is why I am questioning faith, religion, etc., now.

I too have trouble with that concept. But I like the ideas walktheline posted in terms of seeing beautiful things in the world as the healing, "greater power."
The 12 step program I'm working seems to be extremely flexible on that point. The part I must be careful about is allowing another human being to fill that role. My higher power doesn't have to be god, per se. It just has to be greater than a single human being.

Strangely enough, despite never believing in god, I have always believed in some forms of karma.... so who knows.

Good topic, thanks for bringing it up.

Wayflost,
I hear you on the greater than a single human being part. I have walked around thinking that every relationship with a woman that I was involved in was going to somehow transform me as a person and change me from a cheating, compulsive, obnoxious, person into a totally respectable man. It took me a long time to realize (and even some days now, I struggle) that the only person that can change is me.

I'm an athiest. My mum is Catholic, I was brought up as such. Did my Holy Communion, Mass every Sunday and went to a faith school.
I don't remember making a conscious decision not to believe, I just never did. I always had so many questions. Faith is just something I don't have.

It's not scary for me not to believe. I don't feel alone, I have my family. I have a realistic faith in people (realistic in the sense that I know humans are not perfect and everyone is capable of bad things). There's good and bad in the world and I'm ok with that.

If I had to define myself as something, I'm more of a humanist than anything else.

BBT,
Thank you for your perspective. I don't recall making a decision not to believe either, it just didn't make sense to me that there was a God given that I've watched people gamble, drink, curse, engage in violence on a daily basis as a kid and rarely saw good behavior modeled.

I view faith as a negative. I like discovering things for myself. I move forward because the thought that everything is pre-determined and all the answers are known or even knowable would suck all the life out of me. Or that there's a higher power that picks winners and losers and sometimes kicks little kids? Ugh. Not a world that I'd want to live in.
As it relates to infidelity, well, I didn't know everything about relationships or people or specifically, my ex, before we married. That's impossible. Sometimes basic incompatibilities are difficult to find. We learn through experience and genuine introspection.

Every day, we learn more about the world and about ourselves and the people around us. The apple of knowledge is beauty itself.

So, I'd turn your question around... how do you get by if you do have faith and you're on the receiving end of so much pain? How do you get by if you have faith and you do a little reading and learn about areas of the world where just getting through the day is a real trial?

RSN,
It's taken me a really long time to really stop and see that there is genuine beauty in the world. When I met my BW and talked to her, I immediately thought to myself that she was the most decent and compassionate person that I have ever met. She showed me a lot of wonderful and beautiful things that I am so sorry everyday that I have tainted.

When I was 4, standing in front of an off-duty cop who was at the illegal gambling hall gambling with my mother, being threatened by him and fearing for my life and nobody stepping in to stop him, all I could do was zone out and hope that nothing happened. I remember wishing with all of my heart for me to never be in that position again, but that was just one of many similar situations that I endured as a child.

I don't feel qualified to answer the questions that you set forth. All I can tell you is that I admire those folks who rely on their faith to get by.

I struggle with faith as well. My parents were very religious. As a child, I could feel the hypocrisy of sitting in the pew next to my father every weekend. My mother urged me to pray, and I did. And I was still going through awful abuse. To a child, it seemed so unfair, such a hoax.
Now that I'm older, I struggle with "religion" not so much about faith. I believe in a higher power, not sure it's God, but something greater than myself. When something happens that is completely out of my control or I truly cannot control the outcome, I can turn it over, but it's more about me just letting go of control and finding peace in that. My mother would tell me to give all my problems over to God. It's kind of like that, in a way.

It's also taken me a long time to realize that your prayers seem to go unanswered, but it takes time. Things happen when they are supposed to. I don't believe in God, but when I look into my children's abuse free lives, it feels awful to say I don't believe. So that's the kind of relationship I have with faith, back and forth, give and take. It's not problem free, it doesn't solve all my problems or make everything better, but it's my own personal relationship and struggle.

caspers1wish,
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Instead of having an internal debate and dialogue, I realize that I try to take other people's experience with faith, God, HP, whatever you want to call it and try it on and find that it's not for me. Your post helped me clarify that.



Me: WH, 30's
Her : BW, 30's, (determinata)
Children: An amazing son.
I am a sex addict, working on myself, and facing the wreckage of my actions.



Posts: 257 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York City
saturnpatrick
♂ Member
Member # 35989
Default  Posted: 12:02 AM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me this seems tied to another common religion question: "Why does God allow bad things to happen?"

Personally, I believe God has given us an enormous gift: choice and free will. We can choose to believe in him and accept him, or we can choose not to. We are not forced to.

However, in order for there to be a free-will choice, you need multiple options to choose from! This is why the devil is allowed to exist. This is why evil and hardship and all the negatives are allowed to exist. Now we have an alternative. Now we have choice. We can choose to go against God's will and harm our family and neighbors. Or we can choose that no power exists, that things simply happen be they good or bad. Or we can choose to believe in God and try to live as Godly a life as we can -- knowing that by definition in the bible we are imperfect and will make mistakes along the way.

My two cents.


BH
I typo therefore I edit.

Posts: 194 | Registered: Jun 2012
hopefull77
♀ Member
Member # 43221
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

here is the link to his website....I just signed up for the daily devotions... provide your email on the right side...there is no junk mail or anything like that ..it appears daily as a "no-reply at cac.org
this guy digs pretty deep and there is no Catholicism shoved down your throat...
good luck on your journey to peace!
https://cac.org/richard-rohr


me-BS
him-WS
3 adult children 1D 2S
married-1977
LTA 09-2010 - 11-2012
D-day - 11-11-2012
status - reconciling and very hopeful
"Let Go of Control; Let God's Life Flow" ...Richard Rohr



Posts: 556 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: sunny california
steadychevy
♂ Member
Member # 42608
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well said, Saturnpatrick. A clarification to my last post on this thread. I was raised in a Christian household but was of the Christian faith only. Going to church does not make one a Christian. A Christian is one who has taken the necessary steps to ask the Lord into their life. They will never be perfect. They will continue to sin.

I am a BH but am a sinner. I try not to but I do. My WW is a Christian and a wayward but is not without virtue. One of the greatest people in the lieage into which Jesus was born was a true believer in God. King David committed adultery (what woman could turn down the King), she got pregnant and King David contrived to have her husband killed in battle to avoid being found out. In the end he understood what he had done, was truly repentant and was forgiven by God. However, he did suffer the consequences of his actions even though forgiven. Much is the same today. Christian or non-believer actions have consequences.

Sorry if I have gone on a tangent.

Ted



BH(me)63
WW-57
M 37 years
DDay1-09/1/13;DDay2-10/13;DDay3 12/19/13
LTA-09/02-11/02 EA;12/02-?/06 PA
OM -COW
"dates" w/3 former lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment;years of lies, denial

Posts: 97 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Canada
redsox13
♂ Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, June 22nd (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All of the strength I have is in the connection I feel with DS and WW. Tolstoy wrote that the only proof of the divine in this world is the goodness we see in other people. I look around me in the world today and I find goodness the exception rather than the rule. I see the greatest wrong often done by those professing faith.

I have concluded I don't need to understand the why behind my connection to my family. Maybe it is god that fills the space. Maybe it is simply a product of evolution and the need for propagation of the species. I know that I feel it, and that it is enough to get me to put one foot ahead of the other.

In this sense I have let go - but in my case I have let go of the why.


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 258 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
Topic Posts: 16

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