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Wayward Side Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Closure with AP?
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At MC yesterday, we were coming up with a plan for two upcoming family weddings (my AP is my SIL, OBS is BW's brother). I was focused on how to defer to my BIL, how to not hide, but at the same time give him plenty of space. We also talked about how to support my BW. The family that knows has taken their cue from her. If we are together, they accept it.

BW brought up a point that I kind of didn't think about. She asked what am I going to do about AP? My first answer was NC means NC. I plan on never talking to AP again.

BW is worried that AP and I never had closure. She talked about it like when two people break up -- they say goodbye and all that.

This brought up a deep conversation. MC asked if I had any regrets about the AP. I gave an honest answer: If I was thinking right back then, AP would still be like a little sister to me. We'd be friends. We'd share some traits that the rest of BW's family doesn't, so there would always be that link. I regret destroying that. I miss having that healthy relationship moving forward. I understand that losing that is a consequence of my actions, and I accept it.

I hope that AP and BIL and their family are OK someday.

I do not miss the A behavior.

I am glad that my answer seemed OK to MC and to BW. I don't quite know what kind of response I was expecting. Is that a response that was going to trigger BW? Or is it reflective? Do those things have to be exclusive?

I understand that BW is scared that I am with her only because I have shut myself off from other alternatives. This was one of her biggest fears early out. I hope that I have gone a long way towards alleiving that fear, but I know it will always be there. She is becoming more and more trusting in that regard. But my first look at AP is going to be scary for BW. I know that I am not going to be swept up by the emotions of the A, because I know that was all fake. I predict that I'll be sick and disgusted with myself and all that. All I can do it be true and honest, and I know that BW's fear will decrease in time.

BW is afraid that AP will have more emotional attachment to me than I do to her. I think that the opposite is more likely -- that AP is going to hate me and blame me for seducing her and ruining her life. I am honestly as worried that AP will make a scene as BIL.

I still think my plan for AP is the right one. NC -- Period. If she has some emotions that are left unsaid, that's AP's problem to work through. There is no need for closure or apologies or anything else between me and AP.

Like I said, I haven't thought about AP much at all, so the discussions dealing with AP kind of surprised me. Any comments are appreciated.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Aubrie
♀ Member
Member # 33886
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Closure is a myth. For every answered question, it creates another unanswered one. I broke NC a month out for closure. Yeah, didn't happen. I still had a million questions. But at the end of the day, it didn't matter. I was focused on the wrong person. My focus should have been on QS and me. My AP was not the problem. He didn't make a vow of fidelity to QS. It wasn't his job to protect my marriage. It was mine. And I epically flunked.

Focus on your marriage. The more head space you give AP, the more influence and power they have, and the taller the wall between you and your wife.

Indifference is the goal. AP should be a non entity. That can't happen if there are closure conversations and "what ifs".


Me - FWW * Him - QuietStand

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway." - J. Wayne

"What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, what if you fly?


Posts: 6227 | Registered: Nov 2011 | From: South, Y'all!
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's no such thing as closure. If there is, it's one big giant cricket.

I still think my plan for AP is the right one. NC -- Period. If she has some emotions that are left unsaid, that's AP's problem to work through. There is no need for closure or apologies or anything else between me and AP.

You got this, SR. You know what is right for you and BW, follow your gut.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did you go NC with AP? There had to be some sort of blow up/break up then, right? That counts as a goodbye in my book.

Your hard core NC plan might not work long term with AP in your family. I can see that you might be forced into saying hi to each other once in a while if the situation requires it.


Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2014
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you get it.

Simple as that.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3800 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not know who is getting married, but if your presence is going to be a distraction, you need to find a way to bow out for now. Your attendance is not required and the couple should not have to share their special day with your "coming out", even if your wife feels it shows a united front. You have plenty of time to get back into the family functions without making a show at a wedding. The wedding is not about you or your wife, together or not. The family may accept your presence, but the rest of the surrounding issues do not disappear just because they allow you in. Making big circles around a potentially volatile situation is not fair to the bridal couple.

Unless you can sit down with your BIL and SIL before the wedding and discuss this with them, civilly, you should stay home for the weddings. Being family makes the whole A such a Greek tragedy and you know how most of those ended. Closure will never happen in this case, just a very uneasy detente. You know your wife is a saint, right?


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1469 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 11:39 AM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with Lovedyoumore. Unless this is someone very close to you, like your brother or sister, I don't understand why you and XAP are going at all.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1386 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
ImSorry11
♀ New Member
Member # 43517
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"BW is afraid that AP will have more emotional attachment to me than I do to her. I think that the opposite is more likely -- that AP is going to hate me and blame me for seducing her and ruining her life. I am honestly as worried that AP will make a scene as BIL."

Who cares if AP hates you & blames you. Those are her issues. You didnt ruin her life. She did that to herself. You were both willing participants in the A. No one forced either of you to engage in it. If you're afraid AP will make a scene I agree with what everyone else has said, don't go to the wedding.

As far as "closure"....no, just no. My AP recently emailed me to an address I forgot to block him from. I immediately told my BH, in fact I forwarded him the email. We chose not to respond. In the email he asked if we needed to speak one more time for closure. I wish he hadn't emailed me. I wish I hadn't read the email. It mind fucked me for a while. I can't wait until the day I reach indifference bc right now I feel. Lot of anger towards him. Ah, but I digress. I'm a newb to this site. The vets all had very good advice for you.


Me: WW 31
Him: BH 34
DDay 5/23/14, 4 month EA/PA
Married 8 years Together 11
3 Beautiful Kiddos under 7

Posts: 41 | Registered: May 2014
BadWifeTx
♀ New Member
Member # 43846
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can see disaster written all over this. Weddings bring out the high emotions anyway. You start thinking about your own wedding, all the love that was there, reminiscing about your perfect day. Can you imagine this, while you are sitting in the same room as your AP and her husband? I'm actually thinking about him, your BIL. Him sitting there thinking about the ultimate betrayal, of his wife with his own BIL? Your wife seems pretty strong, to be in counseling and asking the hard questions. Her brother is a mystery, so who knows how he might react. He could blow at any time. God forbid it happens during the ceremony. And the reception--avoid at all costs. Alcohol, high emotions = bad stuff.


Me: 51 WW (formerly BS)
Him: 54 BS (serial cheater, faithful for last 10 years)
Married 28 years
1 Son, age 30

Posts: 12 | Registered: Jun 2014
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the responses.

Only the very immediate family knows. Going to the weddings is a big deal for BW and for me, too. Family is important, and BW wants to live a "normal" life sometime. These weddings will be awkward, but hopefully they are the first steps in the right direction.

I don't need anything from AP. I'm done with all that. I think that BW isn't convinced. After all, "normal" relationships benefit from something like that. An A is not really normal, is it?


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, June 24th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Family is important, and BW wants to live a "normal" life sometime.

Ok, trying to not sound like a BS, but this is a complete mess of thinking. When was family important? I am sure your BIL would like to know also, and there lies the problem here. Things are not normal, you have not yet "eased" back into the family, and using a wedding or two is not the time or place. These weddings are not just another family pot luck or even Thanksgiving dinner. This is a solemn event at which you and your A will cause distress, and if nothing else, bring bad vibes to innocent people trying to start their lives together.

If you are really going to do this, I suggest that the four of you meet together with the minister, your minister, any minister, and set ground rules. If you cannot do that, you cannot hope to peacefully coexist at a wedding together. I would suggest this any way. Before you can try to be a family, you guys need family therapy, the 4 of you, together. NC is great advice under most A scenarios, but this particular A needs extra levels of counseling because NC cannot be achieved with your goals of how to be family.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1469 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
nightmarelife
♀ New Member
Member # 42884
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was focused on how to defer to my BIL, how to not hide, but at the same time give him plenty of space.

Exactly. I'm learning how to do this with my SIL and I find not hiding but giving her space a fine line to straddle. I also receive advice from my inlaws that seems to conflict that attitude ("you should just be yourself", "she doesn't want to see you cowering every time she's around", "you have a lot of power to make things better", etc). At the same time I'm trying to leave the door open for reconciliation at some point if she can ever get there. It's tough, and I don't envy you having to see him for the first time still.
NC means NC. I plan on never talking to AP again.

I agree and I think it's the only goal to have but I'm not sure if it's entirely realistic. I hope your BW knows (as my BH does) that if you will continue to see AP occasionally at family events there may be times where some contact is unavoidable.
If I was thinking right back then, AP would still be like a little sister to me. We'd be friends. We'd share some traits that the rest of BW's family doesn't, so there would always be that link. I regret destroying that. I miss having that healthy relationship moving forward. I understand that losing that is a consequence of my actions, and I accept it.

Yes, yes, yes. I regret losing our normal SIL/BIL relationship so much. BH knows this and understands without triggering. I think this is a completely natural and normal reaction to our situation.

As for closure AP and I had a chance to talk one last time before starting NC, which seemed like a godsend at the time but really wasn't necessary in the long run. A month later I got permission from BH to send an apology text message to AP, which was much more healing. We wrote it together and sent it from BH's phone. Unfortunately AP sent his own reply apology to my phone only and I decided to reply and continue a conversation with him. Although we only apologized and talked about how we could help our BS's heal and handle family events going forward, that contact hurt our BS's so much that it wasn't worth it.

You're definitely on the right page re: closure. Anything you could do that would add to your BW and BIL's pain should be avoided at all costs. Do you ever hear anything from your inlaws about how they're doing individually and as a couple? That could help in anticipating how charged the situation could be at the wedding but in the end you really don't know what's going on in AP or BIL's head.


Posts: 42 | Registered: Mar 2014
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm with the others that say skip this event. If you absolutely must attend the ceremony, think about skipping the reception. Wedding receptions usually include alcohol, and you don't know who or what will be the trigger that brings the A up.

This is a wedding - a special day for the two getting married. It would ruin their day if anything about this were to become the focus.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you ever hear anything from your inlaws about how they're doing individually and as a couple?

Not really. They just moved three hours away. BIL hasn't talked to BW for months. We are open, but they have not responded.

I'd love to have some communication before the weddings. I hold out hope that BW and BIL will be able to talk before then.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
womaninflux
♀ Member
Member # 39667
Default  Posted: 1:22 PM, June 25th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

With regard to "I don't need anything from AP. I'm done with all that. I think that BW isn't convinced. After all, "normal" relationships benefit from something like that. An A is not really normal, is it?"...

From my perspective as BS, it's difficult to believe that two people who took the kind of risk you did to get together in the first place don't still think about one another and the A. That may be where she is going with that question of "don't you need closure."

Your wife IS a saint.

If I were you I would discuss it with your wife and figure out a way to stay out of the wedding entirely or be there the minimum amount of time. As in...show up just before the ceremony, minimize your interactions at the reception/cocktail hour, leave right after dinner is over. Anything more would just add to the stress. And if you don't think people are wise to it, you are quite wrong. People who know you know something is up even if they can't quite put their finger on it.


BS - mid-40's
SAWH - mid 40's
Kids - 2 elementary school aged
Getting tons of therapy and trying to "work it out"

Posts: 892 | Registered: Jun 2013
Topic Posts: 15

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