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7yrsflushed posted 7/2/2014 13:50 PM

Why do you check yourself out in the mirror?
I don't check myself out in the mirror. I am happy with my body but the mirror is for making sure my tie is straight or making sure I didn't miss any spots when shaving. Maybe some people REALLY like the way they look though.

TrulyReconciled posted 7/2/2014 13:58 PM

Okay menz, aside from sex, name one thing that your wife does for you, with you, or to you, that makes you happier than anything else on earth.

When she expresses her own happiness.

Razor posted 7/2/2014 14:02 PM

aside from sex, name one thing that your wife does for you, with you, or to you, that makes you happier than anything else on earth.

back / neck rubs. I have places on my body that only she knows and when she rubs those I go into nirvana.

norabird posted 7/2/2014 14:21 PM

Ok, I've been reading the thread with interest but didn't realize that I had my own question in me.

I am more sexually experienced than most people, I think. Have an active sex drive and went through a long phase of dating and sleeping around casually in my 20s. My number is pretty high--like, over 50. I was always safe and I always had fun and I never lied to anyone or led anyone on, so from my perspective, it's all good--I took it a little overboard then and now I'm more interested in a serious committed connection, but it's part of my life and who I am now.

My exWBF had a big cuckold fetish (not quite sure what else to call it?), and when we were first dating after he revealed it he asked me for details of my sex history and then we established an open relationship where we would tell each other details after the fact. It was not the healthiest situations you can guess. When we became monogamous (well--when I did, and when I thought he did), his sexual obsession with everything I had told him never really went away and at the end, he threw my history in my face and called me a slut. It was his justification for cheating in some ways I think; and also he was in some ways competing with my past and with feeling inadequate after hearing everything I had done.

Apologies for the length of that exposition. But basically do you see a woman who has been sexually free or 'loose' or whatever as a slut, and judge her? When I started dating someone a month ago and this came out he promptly dropped me because he felt our values were incompatible. Maybe--but it's in the past, and it doesn't make me non-loyal or unworthy.

In the future I aim to avoid discussing past experiences with new partners but I definitely worry that men have a switch in their brain that turns when they realize a woman has been sexually liberated and had a lot of casual sex; they judge it as coming from low self-esteem or compulsion. And it did come partly from avoidance of emotional intimacy on my part. But I was just trying to find my way. It's not something I want to feel shame over but I can't help the little creeping doubt that sets in. Like, what if no one will accept me as a wife and mother because I ran around in my youth?! What if I really do have less value? I don't believe it but I have been sent that message now and it's hard to purge entirely.

It's ok if you do judge a woman for her past, I'm just interested in what's behind that and if it is impossible to overcome.

Thanks a million menz.

7yrsflushed posted 7/2/2014 14:38 PM

Apologies for the length of that exposition. But basically do you see a woman who has been sexually free or 'loose' or whatever as a slut, and judge her?
Nope, I don't judge based on number of sexual partners or what you did in the past. EVERYONE has a past. I don't ask and honestly would not ask because it's irrelevant to me. If I am with you then I am with you. People that judge based on sexual history or number of partners are IMO, insecure. Seriously what number is "okay"? If my SO wants to talk about it then okay but if those people are in the past then let's leave them in the past. If I am with you then I am with you. I don't care about what happened in the past.


ETA: My XWW told me her number. I didn't care until in random conversation one day the number changed. She gaslit the hell out of me then but my point is I don't care about the number as long as it doesn't continue to increase while you are in a relationship with me.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 2:40 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]

Lonelygirl10 posted 7/2/2014 14:41 PM

I echo Nora's question. My number is lower, but my ex also called me a slut when I told him. So men, at what number do you view a woman negatively?

yearsofpain25 posted 7/2/2014 14:43 PM

@norabird. Excellent question and I can tell you from my past experiences. I myself have been with very few women, but that's because I have gone from one ltgf to another. So I've had lots of sex because I find that sex in a relationship is way more apt to happen for me than when I'm not. One of my ltgf's had been with 30+ and another with 20+. Did I ever look down upon them or shy away from them because of it? Hell no. I lived with both of them. The 30+ for 3 years and the 20+ for 2.5 years. However, in the back of my mind I did feel like I was inadequate in some way and felt like I was competing. There's a lot more to this that would take pages to explain, like having no sense of my own worth and major confidence issues that were ingrained in me from an early age, etc etc etc, but the bottom line is that sometimes yes. It can be intimidating for a guy. Statistically speaking if you have been with more than a handful of people, sometimes we...ok so I...can play mind games with myself and know that I will never be the BEST person that you could have slept with. In my head, that's just not possible. Now with the 30+ girls I was told I was second best. Her ltgf right before me apparently had a very large penis. Also she could never have an O with anyone including just herself. I was always "measuring up" and competing against a ghost. Sometimes she made me feel this way, sometimes it was in my own head due to my insecurities. Now with 20+ ltgf, she always told me I was the best she had ever been with above and by far. I don't handle compliments well and always thought she was lying.

See the problem here norabird? The problem wasn't the ltgf's and the amount of partners they had, or you for that matter, it was me. I was the head case and the problem. Even though I had way more sex than either of them...probably combined...I would play head games with myself on the numbers. It was intimidating in that regard. I never once made them feel like a "slut". I never once mentioned it to them. I wouldn't do that and quite honestly, there's nothing I could do about their past. But from a comparison standpoint of me to the other's, "I'm not that good" is what played over and over in my head. Even if I was told otherwise.

I'm the last person to judge someone else's history or anything else for that matter. But comparatively I'm most own harshest critic. Does that make sense? I'm the head case. But I would never shy away from someone regardless of what their history was.

For many other guys, some of my friends included, they would mention that they might find that intimidating if they didn't have the same numbers. From my one guy friend who has more numbers than that, he could care less...I think.

katiescarlett posted 7/2/2014 14:44 PM

T/J to Nora's question.
Do you respect girls more if they don't put out right away vs. having sex on the first date?

yearsofpain25 posted 7/2/2014 14:46 PM

@Lonelygirl10

So men, at what number do you view a woman negatively?

Speaking for myself, there isn't a number to think of a woman negatively. Every woman I have been with has had at least double the amount of partners that I have been with. Numbers don't matter so much. It's the guy that has the issue, in your case your ex. Not you!

BrokenButTrying posted 7/2/2014 14:48 PM

Do wives have the right to say, "Fine, but just a quicky?"

I know I'm a WW but I wanted to answer this. Personally if I found myself saying that I'd have to check my boundaries. That's not ok. Having sex because I feel obligated or just because my husband wants to, that's not on.

That said, quickies are not always bad. There are two types of quickies; the one mentioned above and the sort where sexual tension has been building for awhile and you sneak off while the kids are watching telly. It's a bit naughty and mutually pleasurable. That sort is ok.

yearsofpain25 posted 7/2/2014 14:51 PM

@katiescarlett

Do you respect girls more if they don't put out right away vs. having sex on the first date?

Nope. To me it makes no difference. I've been with both those that wanted to take time and the first date. For me it's whatever the woman is comfortable with. One of my ltgf's was the first date and I lived with her for 2.5 years. On my first date with my wife I had her in bed that first date. Our first date was 28hours long. It was that good. I was the one who wanted take time and didn't want to possibly wreck the good moment of that memorable first date so I was a gentlemen and offered to take the couch. She wouldn't let me so we slept together but cuddling and kissing only. Sex was the second date with my wife.

yearsofpain25 posted 7/2/2014 14:53 PM

@BrokenButTrying

That said, quickies are not always bad. There are two types of quickies; the one mentioned above and the sort where sexual tension has been building for awhile and you sneak off while the kids are watching telly. It's a bit naughty and mutually pleasurable. That sort is ok.

Couldn't agree more. It's the only type of quickie I will have. I don't want someone who does not want to be with me. It's really off putting.

numb&dumb posted 7/2/2014 14:54 PM

basically do you see a woman who has been sexually free or 'loose' or whatever as a slut, and judge her?

Personally, no. I think often times guys who go there are really just insecure and worry that since you've "seen/done it all," you will find them inadequate. Further that since you see them as less virile you will eventually cheat on them or toss them aside when an alpha male with "mad skillz" comes around.

Many men feel that the physical part of the relationship is the cornerstone. All else is built on top of that and relies on that for support. It is the way nature intended. If we aren't going to be physically compatible then we can decide that the effort in other areas isn't worth it. Sorry ladies it is truth. If I don't get attention in the bedroom I am not going to feel very close to you. Therefore less interested in what you have to say, etc.

The above is meant for longer term existing relationships. Dating is different.

When I was dating many years ago (Think Doc Martins and Starbucks were much harder to find)

DrJekyll posted 7/2/2014 14:55 PM

norabird - my new philosophy is to not judge somebody by their past. Of course I am a WH. So I that changes my perspective

katiescarlett - I was never interested in a second date with somebody that put out on the first one.

ButterflyGirl posted 7/2/2014 16:09 PM

I'm usually fine and understanding with a straightforward "No." or "I don't feel like it.", and I mostly always have been, Pre-A and Post-A.

Doesn't bother me at all, but sex has always been like 15th on my list of cool things to do, so answers may vary by dude.

What are the 14 things cooler than sex, menz?

DefiledRage posted 7/2/2014 16:10 PM

But basically do you see a woman who has been sexually free or 'loose' or whatever as a slut, and judge her?

For me, wouldn't matter. Both my myself and my ww had numerous partners before we started dating. I never cared about a single one of those guys in her past before the A, and I'm still not bothered by those in the past. It's only the one that took place in our marriage that really gets me.

However I do have a few friends that would probably be intimidated. The less experienced. Men are competitive and I would guess that anyone that reacts that way deep down doesn't feel they will stack up. That in itself is a shallow perspective I think, if your a good match your a good match. You don't want those guys anyway. If there's one thing I've learned at SI; insecurity is a breeding ground for infidelity. What you are seeing as judging is merely an expression of there own insecurity.

Do you respect girls more if they don't put out right away vs. having sex on the first date?

It's about the connection not the act. I've never really been one for games. If you like each other go for it. I might be on the liberal side of the equation though.

tired girl posted 7/2/2014 16:13 PM

Many men feel that the physical part of the relationship is the cornerstone. All else is built on top of that and relies on that for support. It is the way nature intended. If we aren't going to be physically compatible then we can decide that the effort in other areas isn't worth it. Sorry ladies it is truth. If I don't get attention in the bedroom I am not going to feel very close to you. Therefore less interested in what you have to say, etc.

Is this in a dating scenario or a marriage?

Also, you see all the time in movies guys mentioning naked house, is this something that guys really want?

Owl6118 posted 7/2/2014 17:08 PM

But basically do you see a woman who has been sexually free or 'loose' or whatever as a slut, and judge her? When I started dating someone a month ago and this came out he promptly dropped me because he felt our values were incompatible.

See someone as a slut? I don't use that word, even in my own thoughts. And I would not "judge" anyone to be worthy of a label I think is meant to demean and dehumanize.

But there is the other side to your question--would I have been comfortable?

Honestly, it probably would have troubled me. Not because I thought it would be morally wrong, but because I would worry that we had different "wiring" about sex, and I would worry that we would misunderstand and hurt one another--oh who am I kidding, that she would hurt me--because she wasn't as tightly wound about it as I was. It would be my hangup, not a judgement on her, but hangups are real.

But even that doesn't really catch it--I am struggling for the right words to get the idea out. Let me try again. I have always enjoyed the company of women. I have always been quick to befriend women. And good as I was at making and keeping female friends, I was lousy at picking women up--can't do it--and not great at getting someone I was into to see me as a potential lover and not the classic just a good friend. So long and short, sex was scarce for me, never common. Long dry spells in between relationships. So I have a hard time wrapping my mind around what the world even looks like to someone who did always find it easy to have a partner at desire, and had many. I wonder how to bridge the gap in understanding that would come between two people, one for whom sex came easily (even if it meant something more and different in the context of committment) and someone for whom sex was rare, and therefore charged when it did come round.

So I guess I am saying that one can adamently reject slut shaming, and yet still feel-- well, unsafe? intimidated? worried about sex not meaning the same thing, and hurt coming from that difference in understanding?

sisoon posted 7/2/2014 19:25 PM

Natural breasts are good, whatever size. JMO, and apparently I'm not alone.

I don't use mirrors to admire, but as a tool to cover every possible flaw.

I don't do much with mirrors. There's nothing a mirror can do to cover up my flaws.

Saying no to sex: After d-day, I required my W to say 'yes' to sex unless she really didn't want to do it. If she was undecided, she was supposed to say yes, because she never said 'no' to ow, and I wanted to be treated at least as well as ow was. Our MC agreed with this approach. Note: W could still say 'no' - she just had to be damn sure she wanted to, if that's understandable.

Some months after d-day (9? 18?), I went back to normal - sex grows out of mutual desire, and IMO 'yes' is meaningful only if you can say 'no', too.

Sluts - I have a hard time condemning women for their sex lives. I think it's a term that women use about other women. In any case, I don't use it. Women own their bodies, IMO, and I like it that way.

Sex on 1st date - boy, I sure wish W2b had been OK with that. Depends on the quality of the connection and maturity of the partners, IMO.

plainpain posted 7/2/2014 19:37 PM

What does it mean if a man expresses jealousy on behalf of another man? For example, seeing a woman he barely knows hanging out with a bunch of guys while her boyfriend is out of town, and getting upset about it. My WH did this, and I took it to mean he had some sort of attraction to her - which he denies. It was like he was disappointed in her... like he thought she wasn't that type. And he mentioned it, like, four times. Am I right to assume he has some sort of 'thing' for her that he may be in denial about, or am I overly sensitive?

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