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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 21
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

when you guys reference "D-Day 2" are you referring discovery of a subsequent affair, a resumption of the affair with AP 1, or TT?

I think it can be any of those. In my case, d-day #2 was a massive amount of TT. D-day #1 was just the tip of the iceberg.


Posts: 7040 | Registered: Dec 2010
DefiledRage
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Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We don't ask those questions because we don't want to go down the road of anything other than its not your fault. It is quite possible that we did things to create the risk that WW, after all an imperfect human being, like us, would stray.

I've always thought that marriage problems are marriage problems, not infidelity problems. Whatever that amounts to for your wayward may be different. Poor coping skills, poor personal boundaries, low morality, low self-esteem, personality disorder (NPD), alcoholism, general lack of giving a shit, whatever the list can go on and on. In the end is all excuses. Normal healthy individuals see a problem and fix it. Not prostitute yourself out to fill whatever hole that is the root problem in your life.

It's individual accountability. The marriage wasn't perfect, but what is? There are so many factors in life that perfect is a virtual mathematical impossibility. Nothing in our marriage necessitated sucking dick in parking lots though. If you must, you take accountability for not having a perfect marriage, she takes accountability for the A. Our society is too quick to look for someone else to blame these days. I want to shout at them....Take some fucking accountablilty!

Still Going....Love this VVVVV

That people don't do the honorable thing very often just says that honorable people are uncommon. That doesn't suddenly redefine the concept of dishonorable.

I think Ascendants point about a DDay2 answers the question perfectly for those of us that have one.
Post DDay1 I tried very hard and often at great personal expense (emotionally and physically) to change things she said led to her telling another man that she loved him. Guess what, didn't amount to shit, not only did she not break off the relationship she just moved it further underground. As she puts it she didn't think I would ever be able to live up to her demands. She was right, because her demands keeping multiplying and changing. It wasn't about our relationship, it was about filling her need for constant validation. Once she realized she could get double validation by simply sacrificing her vows to me she judged the price worth it. It was her choice to cheat, nothing I did had any effect on it once she made her mind up and crossed that line. I'll just assume that on any timeline with any man the result would be the same because she's still the same broken person inside.

Nitro
I know where your coming from though. I had often found myself exploring that line of thought. What I've found is that for me it comes back to being in control. I hate not having control over things. My natural instinct is to look at things and find what went wrong, fix it, and in the end control it.
I don't explore this line of though anymore. Its a exercise in futility. The only thing I can control is my own actions. I'll leave the accountability of my WW actions on her shoulders. When she's ready to come back to our marriage (marriage being me and her only,) and subsequent internal brokenness fixed enough to make the marriage even possible, then we'll talk about our marriage.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 7:24 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 539 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just to be clear, when you guys reference "D-Day 2" are you referring discovery of a subsequent affair, a resumption of the affair with AP 1, or TT?

For me:
same man, she took off a few months, then took it to a whole new level.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 7:19 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 539 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
GotPlayed
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Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DDay2: In my case, there's only one OM. I refer to DDay2 her going to see him at a hotel a mere 72h after promising NC to both me and the IC.

Then again, when she came back I still tried to salvage the relationship. She went off the deep end psychologically and was constant drama for a bit. The next MC session she claimed she wanted S because the MC and I were both "getting on her shit" (her words). I did in-home for a little while and moved out a week or two after.

To me that was DDay2 because I consider breaking that promise and sleeping with him again another D-Day. If she hadn't promised, I wouldn't.

On an NC break once I asked her if he was the only one she ever cheated on me with, among other things. She said it was "nowhere as bad as I made it out to be" but didn't really answer. I've learned since. It doesn't matter if she cheated on me before anymore since we're headed to D, but the non-answer stuck with me. Rather than wonder about it, might as well not ask and cut it clean. I will accept nothing but full honesty, and she can't be honest and give me a clear answer on anything one way or the other.

So I could eat the shit sandwich if she'd just tell me how much shit she shoveled in there first. But she won't, so I won't, as I don't know how many stacks it actually has (it may be the one, or it may not, but I'm tired of these kind of surprises).

As an aside re: your friend, although everyone's situation is different, I generally disagree with staying being the best for the kids. The best for the kids, in my opinion, is to have at least one parent with a head on his shoulders and focusing on them, instead of two basketcases in a volatile environment and the added guilt for them for "my mom/dad doing the sacrifice for me".

I know a family whose dad was a BS. He stayed until the day the last kid left the house, then packed up and got a D. Two of their 4 kids went on a downward spiral - as adults - allegedly because of the guilt that dad had sacrificed a large portion of his life for them. D still hit them very hard. My kids don't know about the A yet, but when they find out one day they'll understand why I left and not feel guilty for my staying. And I'll always be here for them after they confront then-XWW about it.

So as for me, my kids have their bedrooms with me, I have them half the time, and I'm showing my children a role model of someone who cares for them and is resourceful, productive, stands on principle, budgets and does the right thing even when it's hard. They themselves, in time, will compare and contrast STBX's and my approaches to life, which are differing more and more every month, as I'm using this as a time for serious growth and becoming the man I want to be.

The last thing I'd want is for my son or daughter to become a BS one day and stay with an unremorseful creep because it's too hard to leave and they fall on a sunk cost fallacy.

But that's just me.

If she truly changes there's always remarriage. But by enforcing the wages for sin I set the stage for fairness in any future relationship (coparenting, reapproachment, whatever) of any kind. And I free myself to not be in a sunk cost fallacy and have my options open while I'm still young enough.

After all, we Menz who won't stray even when their wives do seem to be pretty uncommon (by judging the Ask the Menz thread), and she's not the only woman out there deserving of or clamoring for a man like us (judging by the same). And I wouldn't be a good man if I didn't stand up for myself just like I recommend others do.

I owe it to future me, my kids today and in my future, and to the deserving woman I will one day have. As my IC told me on day one, "every day we make a choice, and not doing anything is also a choice".


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 727 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once she realized she could get double validation by simply sacrificing her vows to me she judged the price worth it.

The problem - the validation is coming from someone who doesn't have to put up with her shit, who doesn't have to deal with her in the real world. So it's validation that is a mile long but only a quarter inch thick. And in the end, my WW was arguing with her POSER. That's how I caught her - she snuck outside for a cell phone convo with POSER, they started arguing, and she was so wrapped up in it she didn't notice me walk right up to her.

Yeah, Mr. Wonderful was finding it increasingly difficult to make her happy when he only had to deal with her a few hours a week. Try making her happy 24/7, asshole. Throw a mortgage, the usual bills and work stresses, and 4 kids in the mix. The more I think about it the more I see myself as a fucking hero.

So the validation they think they are getting really doesn't exist. What's being validated is their suitability as easy, steady lays. Side pieces. Which isn't a high hurdle to clear.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 7:27 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1382 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As an aside re: your friend, although everyone's situation is different, I generally disagree with staying being the best for the kids. The best for the kids, in my opinion, is to have at least one parent with a head on his shoulders and focusing on them, instead of two basketcases in a volatile environment and the added guilt for them for "my mom/dad doing the sacrifice for me".

Great point GotPlayed, but in this particular case they worked through their issues, the environment is definitely not toxic, and the WW seems to have really found remorse and gotten her head on straight. My hat's off to them. But overall, going through this once and having to do it again 5 years later seems unimaginable to me. But his gamble seems to be paying off. To each his own. I think a D Day No. 2, in the sense that I discovered either (1) the A went underground and didn't end; or (2) my wife had a second affair with another POSOM, would be a dealbreaker for me. That would exceed my pain threshhold.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1382 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
DefiledRage
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Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So the validation they think they are getting really doesn't exist.

Yes, she learned (to late unfortunately for our marriage) that he was only telling her what he thought she wanted to hear. When it came right down to it she only got the validation when she was living up to her "obligations". She admits now she can see it was all lies. Well a relationship built on lies is bound to be a giant lie itself.

If only they had shared a cell phone data plan the relationship would have fizzled before it could even get going.

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 7:38 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 539 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
GotPlayed
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Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sal,

I think a D Day No. 2, in the sense that I discovered either (1) the A went underground and didn't end or (2) my wife had a second affair with another POSOM, would be a dealbreaker for me. That would exceed my pain threshold

Precisely. I think what I described was essentially an attempt of hers to do #1. Caught that right as it was happening. And it certainly exceeded my pain threshold. They continued seeing each other until at least late February. For all I know they are still seeing each other. But I don't care anymore, no longer relevant.

In fact, I think I may have told her on one of the NC breaks. That the infidelity itself wasn't the dealbreaker. The unremorsefulness and subsequent betrayal was. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to sound like an inflexible jerk - it's just the situation I was given. I do admire people who make it work. And I sometimes when I stop by the Wayward forum I read the WWs who are remorseful and are asking how they can help heal their BHs, and help them out with my thoughts and a warm pat in the shoulder along with a congratulations and my cautionary tale. If my own story can help WWs get their shit together, I'm happy there can at least be some growth somewhere.

If they really are honest with themselves and face their issues head-on, I do believe people can change, which is why I said there's always remarriage in my particular case. One DivorceCare group leader mentioned knowing a couple destroyed by infidelity who remarried after 11 years apart, both having married and divorced a subsequent spouse.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 727 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So the validation they think they are getting really doesn't exist. What's being validated is their suitability as easy, steady lays. Side pieces. Which isn't a high hurdle to clear.

Not much time to post, but yeah. It boils down to that no matter what started in the stew to begin with. Doesn't matter what they thought they were cooking.


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3923 | Registered: Dec 2011
HeartFullOfHoles
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Member # 42874
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been busy so am playing catch up.

Funny how they unilaterally blow things up then when it's time to "fix" things they want to be a team.
That would be generous. STBXWW thought I was the problem so it was my responsibility to fix things. She was too busy grieving the loss of the OM in the beginning and never showed much remorse after. Yes some regret, but that's not enough for me to heal with her still in my life.

In the beginning she said she would do "whatever it takes for as long as it takes"
STBXWW would never say that because that would be too much work for her. Everything I gave her regarding how to help me was just too much work. She only wanted or could do quick and easy.

Spent some time with my youngest on the 4th. It was nice, but I sure miss seeing my daughters everyday. Being away from them rips at my already fragile heart.

Some very nice beer and whiskey posts. Is it Friday yet?

Congratulations WTH, sunsets and BAMAC!

We spent some time discussing history in regards to affair related anger and anger in general. Anger is often a secondary emotion. The trick is finding what is underneath the anger. For me a lot of it has been intense pain from the betrayal that she invalidates or discounts so I sucked it in and lots of anger is what came out. Of course she thinks that's my fault. After this discovery I noticed that she invalidates or throws back in my face pretty much anything that can be perceived as her responsibility and she hates it when I call her out on it.

I will own that I was not a perfect husband and that these imperfections put her in a vulnerable place, but deciding to get emotionally involved with another man is 100% on her. She also has to own her part in the marital dysfunction, but she can't do that either and still want's me to be partially responsible for her affair. She won't own her part and I won't accept that anymore hence the heading for divorce status. The only reason she has given me for her affair is at the time she hated me and God.

Had a counseling session with my youngest daughter earlier this week. She said she would like me to live in a specific city so she can try to get into one of the magnet high schools, but here's the kicker she want's to stay with her mother so STBXWW can keep the house. Do you hear any manipulation in that statement? This is the only home DD remembers living in and I understand her desire to keep the connection with it. It is truly unique and special. I'm going to let them try, but I have serious doubts she can pull it off, a 6,500+ sq-ft home plus outbuildings on 50 heavily forested acres and I'm not going to take care of it anymore. If she gets the house I probably get all the cash, retirement accounts, etc. and possibly some of the timber. Loosing that dream is hard for all of us.

I had mentioned at one time to STBXWW that at times I have some Aspbergers tendencies. She just sent me a huge email saying she has done a bunch of research on this and thinks that I may be correct. Well, yes, I made the statement so I probably thought it would be true. My thought is why is she spending all her time doing this instead of looking at her issues? She says it was not to blame me for why things don't work, but something for me to explore. Maybe she should explore why she can't take responsibility for her actions or show empathy/remorse for them or why she has to blame others for her problems or maybe just spend some time getting me all the financial account information so I can get the numbers to my attorney so we can get this all behind us.


BH - Divorcing
D-Day 4/28-29/2012
Two daughters in HS

Posts: 141 | Registered: Mar 2014
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me:
same man, she took off a few months, then took it to a whole new level.

Same here. My first DDAY was when it was just an EA.

I don't say 'just' here to put down anyone who's wife had only an EA, only that the EA was, to me, silly and dumb and childish, but as long as the NC was held, I didn't really care that much about it. I was pretty much fine a month after, I didn't even consider it an affair...I mean, the messages were just so...8th grade.

I was (rightly so) more worried about what it could become as opposed to what it was.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
HeartFullOfHoles
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Member # 42874
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An EA certainly has a spectrum. My STBXWW EA was an I am in love with him and not in love with you. She was planning to divorce me and while she said she was not going to get involved with him I think we all know that was probably going to happen next.


BH - Divorcing
D-Day 4/28-29/2012
Two daughters in HS

Posts: 141 | Registered: Mar 2014
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

An EA certainly has a spectrum. My STBXWW EA was an I am in love with him and not in love with you. She was planning to divorce me and while she said she was not going to get involved with him I think we all know that was probably going to happen next.
Dude....exact same situation.


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
BAMAC
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Member # 39334
Default  Posted: 10:46 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My DDay 2 was the same OM. After DDay 1, there were a out 3.5 months of continued contact, then what I thought was nearly a year of R. Turns out she only maintained NC for a couple months then went right back into it until my discovery. Of course, this information came from her, so who knows if she even maintained NC for that long. I dont think I believe much of what she's told me.

Edited to add:
Sal, DDay2 was definitely a deal breaker for me. She left that night, and it felt like something inside me died. The rest of me wanted to die, too. I saw an attorney the next day and filed. That didn't stop from continuing to try to nice her back for a while, though, which was painful. Definitely something I wish I didn't have to learn for myself.

[This message edited by BAMAC at 10:57 PM, July 10th, 2014 (Thursday)]


DDays - 1/26/2013 | 3/23/14
Divorced 7/10/2014

Posts: 83 | Registered: May 2013 | From: TX
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:00 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Going back to the post this morning:

The reasoning that WW should have done the honorable thing and either discussed the M issues or file D before having an affair almost never happens, at least in my experience. My best guess is that it's human nature to test the waters first, especially when WW loses hope that they can be happy in the M.
***
I think the real issue is the fact that for our WW cheating was a option that was considered. It was there on the table next to counseling and divorce.
^^^ I like these two quotes put together.

I think many of these WWs are extremely conflict avoidant and have a fear of intimacy. The avoidance I am sure can be great enough to rationalize that they can not be happy in the M so as to avoid the confrontation.

My WW was is IC on and off and specifically worked with her IC on how to talk with me about her 'unmet needs'. They practiced it for God's sake. Did my WW ever actually come to me? You guys know the answer to that.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 867 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
1985
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Member # 28171
Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SAL, you know I truly respect you but ...... Catfish as a delicacy? Why not just eat a plate of mud and sludge.
Now a more serious topic -- is an A at least partly the fault of a BS who is an highly troubled or an asshole?
Over the years I have been on SI I have read posts from BSs, both male and female, who, between what they say and what can be read between the lines, project a personality that seems to be very troubled or maybe simply an asshole. And I have to admit that at times the thought would strike me that "maybe you can't really blame the Wayward spouse seeing what an asshole he/she is married to".
But as I have thought further on the subject, I always come to the realization that cheating doesn't cancel out troubled behavior. It doesn't stop the behavior. It doesn't offer a shield or healing from the asshole behavior. All it does it make the wayward ... A cheater. Who broke sacred vows. And whose cheating did nothing to alleviate the action of the troubled spouse.
Another point. The asshole spouse is at least up front and out in the open with the troublesome behavior so that his/her spouse knows what he/she is dealing with. And can make a fact based decision on whether to stay in the marriage or not. The cheater doesn't give her/his spouse that option. The BS is in the dark about what is going on in the marriage and so doesn't have a clue that he/she might actually want to D.
As I have thought of these things, I have come to the same conclusion that all of you have. The BS, even a troubled or asshole BS, is not at fault for an A. Maybe heavily at fault for a troubled marriage, but not for the A. If a person has a spouse that makes life miserable, then D the person. End the misery that way; be up front with the reaction to the misery. Don't use it as an excuse to indulge in a secret life of lies. The person who chooses to cheat is not only exceeding the bad behavior of the troubled spouse but is also too cowardly to let the behavior be seen and judged.
Sitting in a hotel feeling tired but not sleepy despite early client meetings tomorrow I will expound on a couple of other recent topics in the menz thread. First, many of you say you will persevere and/or forgive but never forget while newer members ask will they ever be able to forget. Each of us are different. I hope for all of you that you can and will forget. I haven't and 29 years after DDay I doubt that I will. The long term A followed up by years of periodic verbal and emotional abuse just played too significant of a role in my life for me to forget. I think the more important question for you to find an answer to is can you get to the point of filing it away as a life experience; an artifact of your life; that while not forgotten, doesn't keep you from experiencing the joy and fulfillment that can still exist for you. With your kids; your career; your friends; your hobbies. And if your WW does things correctly and well towards R -- with her and your marriage also. Turning all of the pain and devastation into just another artifact should be your goal. It can happen. And when you get there you will find that happiness will start to return. The truth? No, I haven't forgotten and yes some days something will happen or be said or I will read that brings the memories crashing back for a bit. But it goes away and I have a lot of fulfillment with career and kids and friends and I have great times with my W.
So hang in there.
Final topic, many men have said here and in other forums that they never will be able to look at their W again in quite the same way as before her A; never can put her back on the pedestal she was on. I think I recall Sal saying he told his W that and she was very hurt. I get what you are saying. Truly.
I blindly and inherently trusted my W. Even when I should have seen red flags flapping so hard they were about to tear loose.
And her explanation was: I was very depressed and bored and needed an adventure, excitement, and I was sure you would never find out so you would never be hurt so it was ok to go ahead.
So back up on the lofty pedestal I had had her on? No. But I can't say that I look down on her, or consider her less than worthy of love or caring. Yes she made a humongous, selfish mistake that I have paid the price for. But I am not perfect. I have made mistakes. All of us have. And I believe that when a spouse makes a mistake -- whether big or small-- the other spouse has a choice. Get it behind you. Move on. Treat your spouse the way you want to be treated. Or file for D.
I am NOT saying those dreaded words "just get over it". I know it takes a lot of time and effort and a truly remorseful WW to get it behind you and move on. I am just suggesting that if your W is truly remorseful and works hard to fix herself you can reach a point where you not only love her but also respect her, care about her and are happy to still be married to her. That may not be enough for a new pedestal, but it is enough for a good marriage and life together.
OK maybe I am sleepy now. And probably in tomorrow's meeting too. Peace to all of you.


Me-BH 63
Her-fWW 63
DDay: June 1985. 5 years after A ended
DDay June, 1985
DDay June 1985
Still married - actually in love
2 grown kids; 4 grandkids

Posts: 591 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest - large city
doubleboggy
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Member # 40622
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is some massive collective wisdom going on here in the last couple of pages.

I'm sure WAL would be proud.


D Day: 3/31/13

Posts: 106 | Registered: Sep 2013
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also think that this:
I think many of these WWs are extremely conflict avoidant and have a fear of intimacy. The avoidance I am sure can be great enough to rationalize that they can not be happy in the M so as to avoid the confrontation.
goes hand-in-hand with this:
She was planning to divorce me and while she said she was not going to get involved with him I think we all know that was probably going to happen next.
I think they are fooling themselves if they believe this. Once they divorced us, they think this guy who feels like he just got a 'W' over the husband and is some sort of conquering hero is going to just go away?

No. Many of the OM are going to expect the WW to live up to those soft-spoken promises of a future dreamt about with OM 'if only', and many WW are too chickenshit to tell them 'Sorry, I was just doing it for the lulz, it wasn't real.' because then they'd have to admit they blew it all up, again, 'for the lulz.'

[This message edited by Ascendant at 6:24 AM, July 11th (Friday)]


I refuse to let a wound ruin me.
**Guts over fear.**

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
atsenaotie
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Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So much wisdom in these recent posts, I could fill the page with "me too" quotes.

stbx shuns emotional intimacy, avoids conflict, and has a basket of FOO/personality issues. When she is not happy she looks for the change that will MAKE her happy. When we have moved (3x in the M, twice to different cities) where we are moving to has always been the best place to be until we get there. Then where we were becomes the best place. At work she is not happy until she moves on to a new position, then after a while she is not happy… rinse-lather-repeat.

Prior to dday she blamed me for her unhappiness; felt she deserved a “fling”. She responded and pursued OM at work who was clearly chumming and fishing. After a year and a half or so with this OM, who she believed would be the one to leave me for, he became “cheap”, “controlling”, and “needy” in her view. As he was becoming these things she was at a new job where another man was chumming the water and fishing. She went on to have a 2+ A with this new man who was the last OM.

She did a lot of work post dday, gained awareness, but still was not happy. She harbors a lot of toxic shame. I really think our D is her thinking she will be happy alone as a “dog hoarder” as she has put it. It is the next thing. Sadly, she has never accepted that her happiness is within her, and that is what must be changed. Not her address, not her job, not her marital status.

OTOH, the D may be her statement that she is unable to be a healthy partner, and she is letting me go. She is really not being demanding in anything so far about the D or splitting property and debts. She may be sacrificing herself and our M to give me another chance. She often said in MC after dday that she was not good at relationships, would never M again, that it would either work with me or no one.

Whatever the case, I know that she will never be happy until she makes amends to and accepts herself. When she accepts and likes who she is, then she will be able to be an intimate partner with another person, not just a sex partner. When she finds happiness in whom she is, then locations, jobs, relationships will all be secondary to her sense of being happy and fulfilled.

--Ats


FBS 54
Separated and Divorcing

Posts: 4129 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The person who chooses to cheat is not only exceeding the bad behavior of the troubled spouse but is also too cowardly to let the behavior be seen and judged.

Well said 1985. So really it's a tale of two assholes - one whose assholiness is out in the open, and one whose assholiness is hidden by a mask of conflict avoidance and (often) passive-aggressiveness.

I think we can all agree that one's assholiness is his/hers to own, regardless of what form it takes or what hurt you are trying to recover from.

By the way, while in Florida I had a delicious basket of fried gator tail. So I hit a cracker trifecta of sorts - grits, catfish, and gator tail. Take your best shots, Yankees.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

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