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User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 21
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my theory had a gender bias to it. Men who are promiscuous in their youth are "sowing wild oats." Young women tend to get labeled a little more harshly. IDK, maybe there's no correlation at all. Maybe I'm jealous that my WW had more fun back in the day than I did, and now has had more fun during our marriage. No regrets really, I'm just not built that way. I just wish she wasn't either. Things are changing, but to have such a values-gap in a marriage is tough. That's where FOO issues come into play. Things that were normal to her growing up are incomprehensible to me.

No use wishing things were different I suppose. We have to accept what is and react accordingly. Besides, as my Old Man used to say whenever I "wished" out loud for something to be true: wish in one hand and piss in the other and see which fills up first.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1456 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
FrmrBH80124
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Member # 42967
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Absolutely my worst nightmare. But in the end, its always a possibility and we are all more or less better prepared for the time if it were to come, past experiences and all

And that is the reason that I would never reconcile with a WS. I couldn't live like that. Always wondering when and/or if the next A was coming. I can handle yes, I can handle no but it is the in between that just drives me crazy.

I realize life isn't always so cut and dry and that emotions for your spouse really cloud your decision making abilities. It is easy to say, I'd never stay.... but in the end some of us do. I believe in my heart that if my current wife were to cheat that I'd be gone. I say that now not in the shit storm of D day and the bloody aftermath that results. In the middle of all of it I might stay too.


ME - BH 45
Her - XWS 30
D - April 2010 - never looked back and good riddance.
Happily remarried!

Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are


Posts: 181 | Registered: Apr 2014
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nah, I hear you Sal. Though I heard that phrase as "Wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills first."


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7488 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Sal1995
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Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which fills first."

Yep, that's the version SG. I cleaned it up a little for lunchtime public consumption.


Me (BS)-45, WW-43
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1456 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Sal, I understand the gender bias but I reject it in my case for two reasons:

1. She was my first, and so far my only. So I can't be labeled "sowing my wild oats", nor do I want to do so during this time. Do I want to date? Sure, but as you mention, "I'm just not built that way". I plan on courting a woman, and only having sex when we both agree it's going to turn into something serious (no longer assuming it will end in M, too raw right now for that). And if she's the type to wait until marriage, even better.

2. She did indeed have several boyfriends where she went all the way before me. I never asked - she volunteered this info before marriage, and I didn't bring that up once throughout our entire relationship, including today. On D-Day she started yelling about how "you think I'm a _____" (insert all the epithets used for loose women) and brought up all that again. She triggered way worse than me on that sense. But I never called her that, ever, even during the worst yelling of D-Day.

3. I am as severe on my opinions of wayward men, and of OM/OWs. The damage they have is the damage they have. It's unisex. The roles is what's important and you see it every day in SI. A WW is more similar to a WH than they care to admit (I lurk on Wayward side sometimes, to try to understand the mentality). They may just exhibit their damage in gender-specific behavior, but it's the same thought process, the same bullshit.

So I find the gender bias retort only valid if the BS has called her on it throughout the M. Otherwise it's just more psychological baggage that they have to sort through. It's my understanding the OM calls her on all that constantly, because he's a dick.

As for me, "What was not in your year was not to your detriment". In my mother tongue that rhymes and is a saying, and I always held to that.

So I choose not to accept any "I'm a woman and it's worse for us" - that's just being a crybaby. Patriarchy is not my fault and if anything it's simply another factor that should have made her think twice about it.

If we're going to get into gender-specific complaining, without being guilty I suffer financially every day because of the court's assumption that it was her who needs the help - in fact the entire family court system is designed to protect women, precisely because of that patriarchy. I am expected to pay for everything yet she gets help from everywhere. Yet I don't complain or moan (except for venting here).

For a graphic analogy, it's like me complaining if my man-parts got sliced because I got my pelvis too close to an industrial rotating blade - (whiny voice) "it's because I'm a maaaan and it protrudes moooore!!!!". No, it's because I'm an idiot and got too close. "Protruding more" only made it happen quicker.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
StrongBeard
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Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been doing some catchup - 8 pages since I last logged on! Lots of great stuff, guys.

It has been helpful as I'm kinda on a low point in this roller coaster ride right now. Lots of triggers, and even some self-triggers (I hate the mental cinema) - for no real reason I can tell other than that's the way this shit works.

Trying to find a balance between the demands of life and the need to work toward R doesn't help. Great time to be throwing myself into a new startup idea, eh? At least I can keep my mind occupied more often than not.

On the bright side, I'm going on a backpacking trip this weekend for the first time in over a decade. Forward progress on me along with some time alone to think and enjoy the outdoors.

Excuse the rant. But this has been a touchy subject with me since starting SI. I hate it when the bad acts of screwed-up people make decent, loyal people feel less about themselves. As if the WW is somehow in a position or state of mind to make sound choices when it comes to romantic partners. Often the "choice" is a married person who is every bit as messed-up as she. We're talking about people who will gladly risk their children's intact homes and a marriage they actually want to keep to get an orgasm and an ego boost on the side.

Amen, Sal.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 1:55 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men who are promiscuous in their youth are "sowing wild oats." Young women tend to get labeled a little more harshly. IDK, maybe there's no correlation at all.

For a graphic analogy, it's like me complaining if my man-parts got sliced because I got my pelvis too close to an industrial rotating blade - (whiny voice) "it's because I'm a maaaan and it protrudes moooore!!!!". No, it's because I'm an idiot and got too close. "Protruding more" only made it happen quicker.

From my perspective, as a young man I was known to "sow my wild oats" throughout my first enlistment all around the Pacific Rim and Asia. Sadly, there are probably many young men around 18 years of age with a severe case of male pattern baldness. For that, all I can do is piss and moan about the urologist who swore I couldnt have kids after a series of corrective surgeries for a sports injury to the anatomy at 16.

This promiscuous behavior did not affect my views on marriage however. I was never committed to anyone until I met my XW. The ideals of marriage have always been sacred in my view. You show love, provide for your family, demonstrate through both words and actions a life of honor and integrity, and no matter what kind of special you married you don't cheat or beat on a woman.

Women, on the other hand, especially those permiscuous few who spent a wayward youth shopping the male anatomy department, have been, in my experience, mentally fragile with low self esteem. That's not to say that you can't marry a virgin and end up with the same end result, but I believe (after two failed attempts at marriage) that the chances of ending up in the D boat due to an affair on the womans part.

And going to the part of slicing off ones manhood in some industrial machinery becuase its protruding. That is EXACTLY the attitudes demonstrated by both my X and STBX; zero sense of responsibility or accountability.

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 1:57 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
MadeOfScars
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Member # 42231
Default  Posted: 3:02 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First read this -

For that, all I can do is piss and moan about the urologist who swore I couldn't have kids after a series of corrective surgeries for a sports injury to the anatomy at 16.

Then saw this –

Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.

Yeah...I'd say that urologist was most definitely wrong

The discussion on youthful promiscuity and later infidelity is an interesting (and painful) one to me. I had a bit of a man-whore period in college, partly fueled by my first long-term high-school sweetheart relationship ending due to, well, her infidelity. Hell, every serious relationship I've had has ended in her cheating on me. I know how to pick 'em! Back to that in a moment.

Anyway, once that relationship ended, I found a few female acquaintances expressing interest to be more than acquaintances, and I obliged very happily. That gave me confidence (well really a bloated ego) to add a few more notches-in-the-proverbial-bedpost. All told it wasn't too high a body count really, but at the time, I felt like the man before before falling in love again. That relationship, the last long-term one before my XWW, also ended with her cheating on me. That at least deflated my ego back to a more suitable level, so there's that.

ALL that told, one thing remained and remains the same - I never cheated, and I never will. There's the Mitch Hedburg quote of "I don’t have a girlfriend, I just know a girl who would get really mad if she heard me say that." That was never the case for me. Maybe it's because my first real relationship ended in infidelity, and I remembered that pain and vowed to never do that to anyone else for any reason. Maybe it's my own morale compass, or maybe my parents raised me right, at least in this regard. All I know is despite a couple years of promiscuity and risky behavior, I am not, and will never be, a cheater.

On the other hand, like I said, I know how to pick 'em. xWW had a bit of a sketchy past, as did my LTR prior to her. My first girlfriend (the HS sweetheart - we were each others firsts) went on quite a promiscuous rampage after our breakup. Some of those former FWBs I mentioned have gone on to cheat on boyfriends and husbands. I cannot go as far to say that all promiscuous young women turn into cheaters, but damn if my personal experiences don't seem to bare that out.

My best friend is married to a self-proclaimed "former slut." She admits she was quite the "active" young woman in college until she saw her way of life was not fulfilling any real needs. She's a smart and introspective woman who, at times, can go overboard with TMI (I know more about her than I ever would dare to ask). While I know I would have nothing but contempt for who she once was, I find the version I've known all this time to be a very good person. I hope that continues to be the case, not just obviously for my friend's sake, but to start changing the narrative in my own mind that early promiscuity in women = future WGF or WW. Eventually I will date again (I think), and most likely whoever I see will not be a virgin. So, how do I reconcile in my own mind the difference in a past that is overly promiscuous and a woman who just has a past? When is my former sexual partner count acceptable, but hers not?

Just some thoughts I had on this discussion. Thanks for letting me ramble again.

[This message edited by MadeOfScars at 3:04 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.” ― Rumi

Posts: 1255 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Texas
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MadeofScars -

Every single relationship / marriage I've been in has ended up with the woman cheating on me, whereas I have never crossed that line. I know boundaries and like to be able to look at the guy in the mirror and say "well shit, at least I still have my integrity".

Kinda depressing if I were to really begin to analyze it (which I'm afraid is going to happen in IC sooner rather than later) how I continuously have chosen cheats. My H.S. GF, my XW, one gal I dated for two weeks after D, and now STBX. I think the only one that didnt was the nymphomaniac (actual one, not the proverbial) who provided some much needed "therapuetic treatments" for a month before I couldnt do it anymore (seriously, 8-12 times per day plus oral is TOO much). That got me out of my slump in between marriage #1 and meeting stbx.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
Tred
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Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 3:15 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for letting me ramble again.

No problem mate. Just buy us a beer next time we see you


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 4005 | Registered: Dec 2011
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know about the rest of you fellas but I used to think beer made almost everything better.

Couple things to note though:

1) My XW was still Coyote Ugly no matter how many I tried to fuel the goggles with.

2) I recently moved from the beer Mecca of CO to WI. Let me just say I choose not to purchase any of the local barley pop, which is merely pumped out of the sewage treatment plant on Lake Michigan. I miss having a good Colorado brew.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
Nitrobob
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Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MOS,

I think it all boils down to this: some women just really love sex.

They are always wet, and always willing.

If they are hot too, they can indulge their hobby pretty easily,
with pretty much anyone, including married men who under ordinary circumstances might say no. I don't mean to be cynical but pick a target and ill pick the girl. That's what the CIA does, right?

I think the risk is higher, almost has to be, if you marry a women like that. She might be jonesing for new dick for years. On the other hand, it's a great ride for a while.

If you marry a chubby girl who has to turn the light out before she gets naked, your chances of her having an affair are low.
If you marry a 300 k per year stripper 5 foot 8, 120 pounds, who is ready to settle down, you will be the envy of your friends at the beach, but look out!

Most of us went for something in between.


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 135 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

2) I recently moved from the beer Mecca of CO to WI. Let me just say I choose not to purchase any of the local barley pop, which is merely pumped out of the sewage treatment plant on Lake Michigan. I miss having a good Colorado brew.

So long, HL! Sad to see you go. Give me a shout if you're ever back in the Denver area. There are some good craft beers up in WI, too, though. You may just have to hunt a bit more for them. :)

On the promiscuity thread, my WW was very promiscuous prior to our meeting, but that had nothing to do with her A. It was an EA first, and the PA didn't really take over - it stayed majorly an EA. I guess everyone is different, but they sure can inflict the same degree of pain on us BHs.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
MadeOfScars
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Member # 42231
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dammit, I knew the CIA was behind all of this!

I know what you mean Nitrobob. I've had "the good fortune" of landing some hotties and being envied. I almost hate to say it, but at least I got the best years out of my xWW as far as the superficial goes. The reason I say "I hate to say it" is because it doesn't change my pain, and also because I loved her and would have continued to love her if she turned into the chubby girl. Hell, she did for a while, but then again, I was right there with her overeating the same things. For her though, in the end, continuing to be desirable was far more important than our marriage.

Point is, I'd love to just say you're being overly cynical Nitrobob, but truth is, I'm right there with ya.

Tred - I'll buy you a beer in October. I'll be buying myself a beer in about an hour, and I'll drink a few more for all of you.

[This message edited by MadeOfScars at 4:24 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.” ― Rumi

Posts: 1255 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Texas
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was an EA first, and the PA didn't really take over - it stayed majorly an EA. I guess everyone is different, but they sure can inflict the same degree of pain on us BHs.

StrongBeard - Absolutely on point.

And I'll take you up on the offer too if I'm ever back in the Metro!

MoS / Nitro - I've been with really pretty and pretty ugly and everything in between (mostly in my 17-20 days of first enlistment). Neither my XW and STBX arent models by any means (although XW is to this day in shape but fugly), although my STBX definitely has a sexy factor going for her. Not going to lie if I could get past the emotional turmoil and focus on the outter beauty I can get quite aroused by her.

Point is that both turn the lights off for sex, both were promiscuous prior to us hooking up, and both cheated. I don't know that theres a rhyme or reason in the looks department. But I truly do think there is a connection to promiscuous behavior.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I truly do think there is a connection to promiscuous behavior.

Hard to say if there is a link between pre M promiscuity and having affairs. Im sure there are allot of exceptions. My WW was very promiscuous before we M though.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
Nitrobob
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Member # 42021
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think maybe all women are promiscuous by older standards.

It's just some lie about it to us and some don't!

Magic Jonhson alone took out 20,000 cute ones right?


Me 50 WW 40, 3PA, 1EA over single summer 7/13-9/13, DDay 10/13
M 9 years,together 12, in R mode

James Russell Lowell — 'Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this, that you are dreadfully like other people.'


Posts: 135 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Midwest
Razor
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Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe the danger in promiscuity lies in the concept of *just sex* which sort of underplays the intimacy factor. Maybe those who have *just sex* or *casual sex* (male or female) are more at risk for cheating in a marriage?

I dunno. just poking at this idea with a stick to see if it moves.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3483 | Registered: Sep 2007
HurtingandLost
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Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's a tough one Razor. In my younger days I was a little wild and had plenty of *just sex*; however, once I found someone I wanted to be with and share my life with I was emotionally attached, and it was rarely ever *just sex*. Never cheated, although I've had plenty of opportunities to, its never been a factor.

I was in the military for 10+ years, away from home a majority of that time, and lots of guys I was with had the mentality of "what happens down range stays down range". I had some ladies approach me from time to time and I always shut them down by jacking the conversation to my wife (now xw) and kids, which kept the approaches short and sweet.

After my first divorce, I thought I would "get back into the game", and found that I had EXTREME difficulty having *just sex*. Tried it twice and failed miserably, unable to finish the act. Met a nympho who wanted something more and I entertained the thought momentarily (who wouldn't after 2 years no action?) but quickly realized she was just as broken as my ex, so I moved on.

My STBX tried to play lovey dovey last week, telling me what a great guy and father I am blah blah blah and I will find someone new. My response was "Lab or German Shepard?" At least they're loyal! No more *just sex* for me, its gonna be a man to hand relationship from here on out!

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 6:40 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
h0peless
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Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 6:43 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For what it's worth, the ex was a virgin when we first met (or claimed to be, I suppose. She was also an accomplished liar.) and had significantly more partners than I did by the time we divorced. I think I'd have a hard time being with a woman with promiscuity in her past, but that isn't because of any judgment I would make about her character. It would just make me feel really insecure due to my relative lack of experience.

If you marry a chubby girl who has to turn the light out before she gets naked, your chances of her having an affair are low.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you there. The ex had put on quite a bit of weight (70+ pounds) during the time we were together. She was so incredibly insecure about her body that any time anybody other than me (because she thought I was obligated) told her she was beautiful, she latched onto that and did whatever it took to keep the validation coming. Cheating may be partially about opportunity, but it's mostly about character, regardless of gender.

[This message edited by h0peless at 6:48 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]


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