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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 21
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&L: you're not alone. There's a whole movement of men that think along those lines, called MGTOW, for Men Going Their Own Way. Worth a google.

Not my cup of tea I think but I certainly understand the motivation.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 778 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
Ascendant
♂ Member
Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 1:18 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&L-

My guess is that living that way would be really good and healthy for a while....but that no matter how much you swearz off the wimmenz, at some point some pretty lady is going to catch your mind's eye at the gym, or the grocery store, or work. It'll probably be unintentional, but you'll notice that you really enjoy talking to her and have a desire to get to know her better...and so on and so forth.

I just don't think we're meant to be traumatized forever, and at some point the desire for companionship will creep back in. Your future relationships might be different than your priors, but I think you'd still want that bond.


I keep my mind on my future/and my eyes on the sky/I don't really smile much/If you were there you'd know why.

Posts: 2164 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: City in the Midwest/Best In The Whole Wide World
BitterlyCynical
♂ New Member
Member # 44091
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I just don't see going down this road a third time.

I still see it in my future, but I don't have kids myself and I certainly don't see the point in looking for what you don't want. Nothing wrong with enjoying your bachelorhood.

I'm trying to enjoy the simple things myself, starting to think I'll get myself a little boat some time. Can't help but wonder when my next service point is myself, I been pulling to the left and knocking and my check engine light just came on.


Betrayed Husband 32 (me)
(Wayward) Wifey Dearest 24
Other "Man" 25ish (WW's 'best friend'/'new roommate')
Separated 5/16/2014

Posts: 34 | Registered: Jul 2014
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your future relationships might be different than your priors, but I think you'd still want that bond.

I don't deny the need for companionship. Just thinking along the lines of a Lab or Shepard. They're loyal, they're always happy to see ya, they don't argue, they dont fight, and they can't put a knife in your back.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love the idea of staying single and calling my own shots for a while, but MGTOW at first glance sound like a bunch of insecure misogynistic boors. And from the little I know about OM, I bet he's a member.

Seriously though, I can see where they're coming from, but like mhca, not my cup of tea. At all.

Myself, I have been listening to something called "The art of Charm". It seems it started as "pickup", but it's really about "men being the best they can be in all areas of life" (that's more or less their slogan. So they combine it with general productivity advice, health and fitness, etc. The main guys were PUAs and are now married so they are branching the general "social skills" thing into personal development, and treat "good pick up" as a side effect of a life well lived, facing your girl rejection fears, etc.

I have listened to several of their podcasts (they have a course in LA that sounds pricey) and there's not as big of a bad vibe as with many of the others. Once on their podcast one of their guests mentioned something about picking up women attempting to cheat and the host immediately jumped in and say something like "well, yes, and it may be easier, but you know women like that have damage, a) why are you yourself so 'low value' that you're going to go for that? Don't you think you deserve someone who will treat you well in the long run? and b) Why do you want to add more damage to her and her mate? Think of your goal - the goal is to find a good mate and be your best, that's just not right..". He kind of shut the other guy up a bit by strongly implying the jerks that went for attached women were losers. I felt really good about that. They have women guests often, which many of that crowd don't do.

Seems like masculinity well made.

And I guess that's really the crisis of modern men, isn't it? When we're "nice", we get cheated on and become targets for toxic women. And we don't want to be jerks, it's not in us (in general). Society in general frowns on masculinity displays that are not sports related, and we are kind of left adrift, not being able to form men-specific groups that are not seen as misogynistic for one reason or another.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
mhca
♂ Member
Member # 41920
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotPlayed: art of charm looks good, have to check that out. Thanks for the tip.


Me: BH 47 STBXWW 47 (Lklb5)
M 19 years, DS 15, DS 11
DD#1: 12/24/2013
TT/Broke NC/False R
DD#2: 4/15/2014
TT 4/23, 4/24, 5/31, 7/19
Divorcing

Sample recovery plan, feedback welcome: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=539961


Posts: 778 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: California
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As she's in the fog dreaming of OM's dick, she says "you'll find someone new". I don't want anyone new, and I don't want her either.

I know we all have this chip on our shoulders coming out of an M (especially an M with a WS). But I really think getting a couple of dogs and focusing on the important things in life like being a Father, Hunting, Fishing, and good beer are more in line with a productive future rather than ever messing around with the notion of a relationship ever again.

I heard that years ago during the affair. While we didn't end up S/D, eventually it was comforting to know that I didn't have to ever be in another relationship again if I didn't want to. It sounds inane but when your entire adult life and solid chunk prior to that is spent in a relationship it just felt weird to think of myself as potentially not being in one. Then the idea that I could do all the shit you were talking about, but totally on my own terms in my own time with no criticism or negotiation or anything (other than, you know, that whole mess with not living together anymore and arranging kid schedules) started to sound so exciting that the lack of sex wasn't really an issue that merited more than a "Cross that bridge" thought.


And I guess that's really the crisis of modern men, isn't it? When we're "nice", we get cheated on and become targets for toxic women. And we don't want to be jerks, it's not in us (in general). Society in general frowns on masculinity displays that are not sports related, and we are kind of left adrift, not being able to form men-specific groups that are not seen as misogynistic for one reason or another.

Eh, I think that crisis only exists if you give a shit about what a particular section of society may think about a given behavior or display, beyond caring enough to exist within it.

I think men could form men-only groups if they felt like it, but I think most guys just don't care enough. Yeah there will probably be cries of misogyny but unless there is any actual misogyny going on then it's irrelevant.

I was recommended to try some kind of dudes-only thing that is supposedly really great when it comes to taking back my masculinity and being comfortable being a manly man or whatever, and it kinda sounded okay until the whole "you'll also be sitting around naked to chat once in awhile" thing. I don't know what anyone else might feel about that idea but, look, beyond the whole self image thing, I spent a lot of fucking time in the deep fucking woods as a teenager. Setting aside bears, coyotes, feral dog packs, commando chipmunks and so on, having a tick drop down and burrow into my cock while I'm having a moment with the Talking Stick Of Wisdom or whatever is just a big fucking no-thanks when I could achieve the same feeling with a pair of pants.

Additionally, I am comfortable saying "I am not comfortable hanging around a campfire naked with a bunch of other naked dudes" regardless of the reason. Like I said, I only ever heard great things but I am comfortable enough in my masculinity to not feel the need to display my pasty white flabby ass and flaccid dong trying to crawl back inside to hide in order to regain said masculinity.

So, the above I guess illustrates another point - a bunch of chicks can stand around in underwear and chat, but its not really a guy thing.

I totally lost the thread of that, sorry.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7474 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was recommended to try some kind of dudes-only thing that is supposedly really great when it comes to taking back my masculinity and being comfortable being a manly man or whatever, and it kinda sounded okay until the whole "you'll also be sitting around naked to chat once in awhile" thing. I don't know what anyone else might feel about that idea but, look, beyond the whole self image thing, I spent a lot of fucking time in the deep fucking woods as a teenager. Setting aside bears, coyotes, feral dog packs, commando chipmunks and so on, having a tick drop down and burrow into my cock while I'm having a moment with the Talking Stick Of Wisdom or whatever is just a big fucking no-thanks when I could achieve the same feeling with a pair of pants.

Additionally, I am comfortable saying "I am not comfortable hanging around a campfire naked with a bunch of other naked dudes" regardless of the reason. Like I said, I only ever heard great things but I am comfortable enough in my masculinity to not feel the need to display my pasty white flabby ass and flaccid dong trying to crawl back inside to hide in order to regain said masculinity.

So, the above I guess illustrates another point - a bunch of chicks can stand around in underwear and chat, but its not really a guy thing.

I totally lost the thread of that, sorry.



36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 2:53 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regaining masculinity....that would imply that we've somehow lost it.

Personally, I can separate the pain of my STBX ripping my heart out with a spoon and tossing it in front of a flame thrower, and still realize that I am a grown ass man with a set of gonads. It doesnt change the pain or frustration, and yes, it does carry into aspects of Work / Home life through a downbeat mood, but I can honestly say that I have NEVER, EVER felt the need to sit around nekkid with a bunch of dudes in the woods.

Next time you see whoever recommended that shit to you, give'm a quick jab and an uppercut from us menz, will ya!


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
BitterlyCynical
♂ New Member
Member # 44091
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing, that was the best laugh I've had in a while!


Betrayed Husband 32 (me)
(Wayward) Wifey Dearest 24
Other "Man" 25ish (WW's 'best friend'/'new roommate')
Separated 5/16/2014

Posts: 34 | Registered: Jul 2014
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MHCA - Looked at MGTOW, not my cup of tea either. Maybe I read it wrong, but it almost seemed like a bunch of insecure dudes hiding from responsibility. I have no intention of abandoning my obligations to my children, my work, or finances.

I just want to embrace my other neglected responsibilities like fishing every northern / walleye / Crappie / Lg and Sm Mouth Bass out of the lake off my dock, bagging a couple of trophy bucks (have my bow and gun tags for this fall), controlling the duck population (6 bag limit / day for 80 days), or searching out an elusive, decent damn beer in this backwoods part of the state (Damn I miss Colorado!).

Having another relationship with another potentially toxic WW just doesn't seem very compatible with that forecast.

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 3:55 PM, July 26th (Saturday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
HoldingTogether
♂ Member
Member # 29429
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing for the win ladies and gentlemen. Epic riff man, epic.


Me:BH 41
Her:FWW40(Walkinoneggshellz)
2 Beautiful little girls 13&10
Dday: 7/24/10 1yr EA turned 5 monthPA
"I gotta hole in me now... I got a scar I can talk about."

Posts: 430 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: New Life
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have an Elgato capture device that I use for work (tv related). Dd8 just discovered it. And twitch. I set it up for her on the xbox360 using my laptop.

Apparently we have a long Minecraft night ahead of us. But for now I'm cooking and taking care of the other tiny one while she takes the setup for a test drive.

She's beyond excited. And I have something else fun to do with dd. Yay!


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 755 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Made dinner, spaghetti with italian sausage and green beans the kids picked from the garden, then took them out for root beer floats. Had to paste a smile on my face while STBX slurped her shake texting OM.

There is nothing sacred with this one. Anyone you don't like need a new "friend"? I'm running a special here, I'll move her into your pad first month for free! She comes with TONS of shit, say goodbye to your garage!

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 7:56 PM, July 26th (Saturday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What, no takers?

Yeah, didn't think so. Even at free, she ain't much of a bargain. Still, if you can think of an OM or two, or three I can pawn her off on (Current OM doesn't want her long term cause of kids, apparently) let me know!


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
MadeOfScars
♂ Member
Member # 42231
Default  Posted: 9:37 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even at free, that might be a hard sell H&L. I've tried to cut out any cancers (those with no qualms with infidelity as long as its not done to them) from my life, but I may still some contact info. I'd offer up my ex to sweeten the deal for some OMs, but she does well enough on her own to broker those "deals."

There is nothing sacred with this one

Sorry man. The fog knows not what sacred is...


“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.” ― Rumi

Posts: 1221 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Texas
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, July 26th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry man. The fog knows not what sacred is...

Most honest thing I've heard in my house in months!

Surprisingly, the past couple of days I'm not even upset about this new member to our marriage. It hit me that we're divorcing, she's no partner worth keeping, and my life on the other side of this bullshit will be SO much more....Me.

Being the father the kids deserve, not some stressed out, beat down and wore out shadow of myself carrying all of a "marriage" that should have been a two person lift from day 1.

Do I still get annoyed by the intrusion of OMinto my family time? You bet. But when its all said and done, I may just put him in for a humanitarian service award. In short order he'll figure it out. His loss, my gain!


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
WearingTheHorns
♂ Member
Member # 37916
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, after typing this I realized it's really long. I just needed to vent.
Been a real mixed bag of a weekend so far. WW and I had date night Friday. One of the local theaters was doing a musical she wanted to go see. Managed to find ourselves alone late in the afternoon well before we had to leave, so we decided it was play time. Without tmi, she wanted to do xyz and I was all for it. Turns out I didn't have the wherewithal to do xyz. After we were done I could tell she wasn't in that happy place she usually is after a good O. She really wanted xyz and of course the reason I couldn't manage it was that she didn't turn me on enough. Um, no. It had to do with my having worked in the yard for three hours in 90 degree heat and it having kicked my ass worse than I thought. Finally get her convinced that was the reason, and we finally head to the theater.

At the theater I see a few people I've worked with before there and catch up a bit. Go in and get seats and the show starts. Good actors with excellent voices. Band's a little loud making the singing a little hard to hear. Then they get to the main plot point the whole show's going go turn on and it's a guy in a less than perfect M having an affair with the new girl in town. Well shit, that's just fucking great and I start triggering all over the place. Then there's a song with the WH, BW, and OW singing about "my heart belongs to him/her". Wonderful! That makes me start triggering about WW having told Thing1 that she loved him. So now I'm wondering if she's sitting there getting all wistful for Thing1. I literally thought more than once about walking out.

Finally intermission came and both of us had to go to the restroom. When I got a little privacy in a stall I really had to take a minute to collect myself. When I got out WW was waiting and asked if I was all right, did I want to leave. She was OK to leave and understood if I couldn't watch the rest of the show. I was really kind of surprised. I don't know if it was obvious that I was triggering so hard or if she just realized that it had to be getting to me. I told her I just had to accept it for what it was in the context that it was in. Of course by the end of the show WH and BW were back together and happy with no ill effects of the A (because that's so real ). I was kind of glad to get out of there needless to say. But lucky, lucky me it didn't end there. Last night I got the pleasure of having a dream that I'd found out WW had cheated on me (in the context of the dream it apparently was for the first time). I walked away. Literally walked away from her, out of the building we were in and just kept going.

Today wasn't too bad but her A's have been very much on my mind, and it was a struggle so many times to bite my tongue when she'd say something that just made me want to throw her A's in her face. All I can do at this point is hope for better dreams and a better tomorrow.


Dday: over a period of three days 11/14-16/2012.
EA/PA: ~ 2 1/2 years
EA/beginning PA: ~ 10 months

"What God has joined together, let man... no man put asunder" -Pastor at our wedding concluding the ceremony

2 Cor 12:9-10


Posts: 281 | Registered: Dec 2012
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTH

Sorry you're having such a shitty time of it. If she does the work, they will lessen over time. Its tough, and it takes a remorseful WW and two committed partners to get through it.

My unremoreseful STBX never did any work through IC / MC and although I was able to learn to control them and bite my tongue, they never went away.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 1032 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Regaining masculinity....that would imply that we've somehow lost it.

I am sure I misrepresented the organization; it's more about embracing masculinity and acknowledging being a dude as being okay, and all about taking personal responsibility, so on. I remember what it was, looked it up and the whole nude thing is optional and a small % of their stuff. I just want to reiterate that I have only heard good shit about the that program and didn't mean to make the focal point as a slander of it.

I still stand by the whole nudity thing though. I don't need to embrace my dick, and I don't really care to embrace any dick that isn't attached to me either. It seems kind of like a thoughtfully designed male version of The Vagina Peacetalks or whatever the fuck that was. The Penis Mightier comes to mind.


"You have insulted my footwear."

Posts: 7474 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
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