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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 21
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its not selfish to reach for a personal goal or standard.

Amen.


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Herkemeyer -

I've strayed into the WW forum and get disgusted with the same thing. Registered a week or two ago and giving advice.

Shit, I know I'm not the brightest bulb on the proverbial string of christmas lights but I've been a registered BH here for over four years and I'm still ASKING for advice. I've tried jumping back into the JFO and have a hard time reading some of that shit to this day., my emotions are still a little too raw in light of recent events. I mainly stick to the general or D/S forums when I feel like I can provide constructive feedback.


Not knocking all of the registered WW's. Many DO get it. Just havent come across any who truly "get it" a week out from Dday.

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 9:41 PM, August 7th (Thursday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 964 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:53 PM, August 7th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

*posting as a member*

I totally get the frustration of looking at the WS forum, and how it can be triggery. Been there, done that, many times over.

The thing is, that is a protected forum for a reason, as that is a place for WS's to work through stuff. The beauty of this site is that everyone here has a voice, WS, BS, Madhatter, whatever the status or however long someone has been here, as long as they are within the guidelines.

If a WS member, new or old, were to say something off base, the other members of the WS forum would jump in to provide whatever feedback or 2x4's is necessary. If they go beyond the guidelines, a Mod will step in super quick.

Best to let the WS's do the work in that forum, and if it gets too much, time to come down here and hang with the fellers, have a virtual beer or a sun tea, and talk about whatever is on your mind.

Peace, gentlemen.

Hey, it's almost Friday!

Any big plans for the upcoming weekend?

ETA: forgot to add the "posting as a member" part that I intended to put at the top of my reply there.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 11:37 PM, August 7th (Thursday)]


Posts: 6980 | Registered: Dec 2010
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 12:59 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It amazes me how I turn out to be the bad guy because my wife decided to bounce off another guys dick! She happily went and destroyed our marriage and now in the aftermath I am to blame. I am the one being cruel. Maybe I should just go.

I do have problems with depending on external validation but I am smart enough to see what is really thought of me. Even my IC, who happens to be WW's IC and our MC, blames me. I wasn't doing enough, am not doing enough, probably will never do enough. But WW gets to have everything she ever wanted and she can just say "I'm sorry" and that makes everything better.

I get asked a lot what is happening now. Told that I spend too much time in the past. Well, for me, right now I am trying to deal with the fact that my wife of then 18 years spent the summer sneaking around with some douche bag and she told her friends that she was having the best summer she'd ever had. Fucking excuse me if I am not over that.

And to all the waywards, an alien did not take over your body...SA excepted, you do not have an addiction problem...You did what you wanted plain and simple.

To those that confessed, I can see true guilt and remorse. But for those that were caught, how are you so sure you're not just scared of losing everything so you put on your new face and say "Look at me, I'm different now."

Thank you for allowing me this little rant, I return to my previously scheduled shitty existence.


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 1:51 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think your IC/MC is dead wrong, Herkemeyer. You can't be blamed for any of the choices that your wife made - those were her choices. My personal recommendation would be ditching that counselor.

Posts: 6980 | Registered: Dec 2010
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 2:10 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have mentioned to her that I think she is wrong too. She's said I can believe whatever I have to believe but she has seen several couples "flourish" using this thought process. I wonder if she tells BWs the same thing or if it is gender specific. Obviously something I will never know.

Finding a new IC is very difficult because I chose to leave my personal hell in the springs (Colorado reference) and move internationally.

It has been two years and I still don't feel better. I am so fucked up!

[This message edited by Herkemeyer at 7:29 AM, August 8th (Friday)]


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:13 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Herk))) Your IC is FOS, even with her weak
she has seen several couples "flourish" using this thought process.

The anger that you feel is understandable - because your very true pain is not being validated.
That's a load - and a load to live with.

Shuck it off. FTN. You know better, & boy, do we get it.
This isn't 2nd fucking grade, where that so-called counselor stopped learning. Just don't buy it. Don't listen to that shit.
It sounds like...you haven't been *given permission*, or *allowed yourself* to be angry (thus the lash-out at other WS's)...no worries man, just...
get it on - with yourself!
You know "anger" is a true thing. A true phase of healing. Let yourself be angry!
Done right? It's very useful. Because you use its energy to kick your own butt!
Slap that horse's ass herk))) - send that bitch galloping off screen.


Posts: 6570 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DS1, works at a high-end eatery, met this guy...was getting a lousy cell phone/low-light pic when the guy sez; "Wait".
Then this guy proceeds to take his (massively huge) ring off & gives it to DS1 for the pose...
.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


Posts: 6570 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JJ,
FTN? Why would I do that with a nun?

Actually, I have no idea what that means.


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


fuck that noise

Posts: 6570 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Tred
♂ Member
Member # 34086
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is that Joe Gibbs JJ?


Married: 17 years (14 @JFO)
D-Day: 11/09/11
"Ohhhhh...shut up Tred!" - NOT the official SI motto (DS)

Posts: 3910 | Registered: Dec 2011
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That's awesome!

The pic I mean.

Herk,

Your MC is an idiot. Can I all caps that? IDIOT!
Using an outdated mode of counseling for infidelity. I would wager with little to any experience personally or professionally with infidelity. Go find a real counselor who is knowledgeable with the subject matter and believe individuals are accountable for their own actions.

Let me preface this by saying I am not a IC. But I have attended a number of professional psychology conventions over the last few years. Don't ask, guess I'm a gluten for punishment. Anyway, unequivocally the "experts" have all trashed the methods you current IC is using. It doesn't work. It only leads to dday2, or dday3, and on and on. The wayward has to take responsibility for their own broken self and the A. And if I know that then your MC should know that. I mean how hard it to pick up a copy of psychology today (or whatever it is they read to stay current). Maybe just too busy counting the money he/she is fleecing from clients.

Even if you can't find a new one, I would stop going to your current one. He/She is creating more damage than doing good. Correct me if I'm wrong but sounds like your WW is feeling entitled and the IC is just reenforcing that. If anything at least it will save you some money (have to try and find the bright side right?)

She's said I can believe whatever I have to believe but she has seen several couples "flourish" using this thought process.

If only you could have heard how big the sigh I let out was when I read this.

One simple question....
Is it working of you?

Not her, not your lazy IC/MC. But you, and only you?
If the answer is NO, well then you have your answer. She needs to find another way to heal the marriage in a way that works for you. If she is truly committed she will understand and do what you need.

As a side..."flourish"...is not a word I would associate to any marriage touched by this shit. Others can chime in if they are different, but I think the correct words would be: workable, or manageable, or decent. Flourish seems like another unicorn delusion to me. Marriages can survive, but I don't subscribe to the theory they can every become stronger. The crack in the foundation will always be there.

Maybe that's just my post dday defeatist attitude showing again. Is it friday yet?
Crack me another beer Billy!

[This message edited by DefiledRage at 11:20 AM, August 8th (Friday)]


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 534 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Herkemeyer your MC is indeed misguided, you should find a separate person to IC you, and consider a second opinion on MC - you mention another country, there aren't ways to elect a provider there?

"Flourish" is also not the word I'd use. To give us hope our own MC used the term "It will never be the same, but it can be very good, and very much be worth staying together."

My IC (also her IC and MC, until she discontinued the whole thing) said one thing to me (during my IC session), regarding the blameshifting, that I took to heart. Maybe mention this to this person during your IC session. Essentially he said this (I'm paraphrasing):

"Right now, a lot of things will be said (by WW) that will be justifications for her behavior. But only she can own her own behavior, because what she did is what brought us here."

"Of those things she blames you for, go ahead and make a list. Write it down in your journal and then forget about it. For a while. Because it's mostly things she said to justify her A. However, within those things she said, there may be a grain of truth somewhere on some of them. Problem is neither you nor her know where that truth is, in your current emotional state."

"When you're healthy enough to look at this objectively (and we're talking months, maybe years from now), open that list. Take the items out and look at them. Some of them you'll know they're lies, but some of them will speak to you as possible truths. Those you want to work on. Because those are your areas of growth. This is how you grow from experience. This wasn't your fault, but you can do better in some areas of your life."

Your MC thinks that if you fix your stuff WW will not have a reason to complain. But it's wrong. And it's wrong because someone who has an A is personality disordered and the complains are projections of their own areas of pain. Until and unless the WW fixes herself it will not, I repeat, will not, make an iota of difference.

Your MC is trying to rush you through the process more than her (is it because MC thinks she's not ready? I don't get it). But usually what then happens is that WW temporarily thinks "everything's ok now" and declines to continue her own treatment. Because all she did then was manipulate others (in this case the MC) into changing your behavior. More control for her (which feels good because she feels out of control), but no real healing, and in a sense the new constraints were put on the wrong party. And then a new DDay happens. Or whatever. She needs to do her own work.

You do you, let her do hers. If she won't do the work to heal, then it's off to S/D. It's really that simple. And it cannot be any other way unless you're choosing to live with a broken person.

I do recommend to do this, btw. Just write it all that stuff down, and ignore it for the most part. If you feel something needs to be worked on now and you feel it's an attainable goal, go ahead, but it has to be because you believe you want to change that about yourself - it can't be just because she nags or places her own self-validation on what you do. If you don't feel ready or still feel angry about the observation just leave it alone. You'll be in a different emotional state at some point later.

My shit-list is still stored, mostly. I have worked on a thing or two, but for the most part it's relational stuff and since I'm on D process now it will wait for my next date (or at least until D is final). So in that sense, thank you STBX for helping me improve for the next Mrs. GotPlayed, the one that will actually have her shit together.

She certainly doesn't seem to be doing the work in trying to become that - on the contrary, she's continuing the blamefest through the Ls. So I'm continuing with the D process.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 714 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
Razor
♂ Member
Member # 16345
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Herk.

*Flourish* is a word that only a delusional or ignorant person would use to describe a relationship after this sort of betrayal.

GotPlayed.

What I object to in the statement you gave about the list. is that that list has to do with the marriage. NOT the affair.

Yes marriages can be in a bad way. Probably most are at some time or the other. But those things lacking in the M are only used as a excuse to cheat and are not the reason that the cheating happened.

Marriages can be improved after a affair. But a marriage is actually only a part of the relationship.

The items on the list can be worked on. You can be home more and be more attentive to your WWs needs. Your WW can be more engaged in your life such that you do more things together outside the home. Sex can improve in frequency and quality.

And thats all fine and good. But the relationship remains damaged by the breach in trust. and the violation of the exclusiveness you enjoyed before. These in fact are issues that are much harder to come back from.

And if the MC does not understand this I think finding another MC is in order.

Blaming the M for the affair is hurtful and just a cheap excuse.


Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Posts: 3465 | Registered: Sep 2007
ascian
♂ Member
Member # 40304
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h0peless,

Never thought I'd be the worlds biggest Hawkeyes fan but I am for the next three years at least.

Being a Hawkeyes fan is a lot like being a Cubs fan:

If your team wins a game, that's great. If they lose...well, you're pretty used to it by now.


Me - BH 39
Her - FWW 36
D-Day: 8/13
Working on R

Posts: 298 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Midwest
Herkemeyer
♂ Member
Member # 36910
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks gents. Good stuff to ponder.

I knew there was something wrong with our marriage pre-A. Less than 2 months before she started I tried to talk to her. She gave me the everything is fine speech. Now post-A, she equatesthat conversation to a waiter asking if everything is okay. But him, whoa him, he really listened to her.

It's funny though. This guy she felt "safe" with is the same guy who texted her that he wanted to be inside her and see her legs wrapped around him less than two days after she was crying on the OBW's shoulder about problems in our marriage. Sounds fucking safe to me.

My IC says that there is no good reason for her A. It all emotion and no logic. But my WW went on a 3 day camping trip with her sister and the OBS. No contract with me or the asshat. Did she write me a letter talking about how she was feeling? No, she wrote him a letter saying she was afraid he was falling in love and she just wanted to have fun. I see lots of logical choices made there. Yes I'm pissed and I'm hurt!

Oh post-A, she starts sending me sexy pics. I asked if she sent them to him and she said no. I asked if this was only for me and she said yes. Fast forward 18 months, guess what, she did send him nude pics. How am I supposed to fucking believe anything. My IC just blows that off, like it's no big deal.

My IC has told my WW, that I'm the moodiest person she's ever met. She has told my WW that my WWs friends and family have validity in believing I did something to cause the affair. At my WW's first appointment, the C told my wife to go do something nice for herself.

I think the reason I haven't switched therapists is I really don't care to go through the whole fucking story over again. I don't want to be criticized for "allowing" my WW to go jump on another guys Jimmy.

Rant complete... For now.

[This message edited by Herkemeyer at 2:46 PM, August 8th (Friday)]


BH-43
(F?)WW-39 (neznayou)
DDay-08/10/12 TT for 18 Months (I think)
Married 19 years

Posts: 123 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Colorado
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had a really bad trigger filled day today, wrote everything from this toxic shit facade of a marriage down from start to finish, then obsessed over that shit. I can't stop the emotions at the moment. Any of you guys go through this while checking each block heading towards D? Or am I just being a pathetic bitch?


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 964 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Key distinction here needs to be:

Marriage problems ≠ Infidelity problems.

Everyone has problems in the marriage. If your 100% happy with every aspect of a relationship, send me what your smoking....please!
You were in the exact same marriage, did you cheat?
For us mentally fully functioning adults we view marital problems as an opportunity to work together to carve out a better place in the storm. Think of it as a team building exercise. Bonnie and Clyde. Overcome become stronger.

Infidelity on the other hand is a completely separate selfish issue. You forgetting to take the garbage out for the 20th time does not give her permission is go slob on a knob.
In wayward thinking they view everything as an excuse to feed the me, me, me. What have you done for me lately.
Think about other aspects of your WW's life. I'm guessing she has a truck load of excuses to get what she wants. At least that's the case for mine now that I'm paying attention.
No one complimented my haircut = I get a new pair of shoes.
That person cut me off in traffic = big bowl of ice cream.
Kids were really whiny today = drunken girls night out.
I'm not 16 anymore = I'm going to behave like I'm 16 again.
It's a world of excuses for the entitled. How bout you develop some positive self esteem and cut for hair because you like it that way, not for others attention. How bout you sit down and watch a movie with your kids after a rough day so that they know they are still loved even when things aren't perfect, not going out on the town and doing your best Pretty Women impersonation. How about act your fucking age and show some self control.

Until the hole inside her is filled working on the marriage is an exercise in futility.
And by filling the hole I don't mean with asshat cock.

Wow ranty today, rough couple of weeks.
Is it friday yet?


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 534 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My IC has told my WW, that I'm the moodiest person she's ever met. She has told my WW that my WWs friends and family have validity in believing I did something to cause the affair. At my WW's first appointment, the C told my wife to go do something nice for herself.

MUTHAFUC@#$%@%@^^%$#

I'd go postal. Fuck that counselor. Seriously, don't care if it's even partially true, that bitch needs her license revoked.

I'm going to stop now, but Herk, get a damn refund.


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 534 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, August 8th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Infidelity on the other hand is a completely separate selfish issue. You forgetting to take the garbage out for the 20th time does not give her permission is go slob on a knob.
In wayward thinking they view everything as an excuse to feed the me, me, me. What have you done for me lately.
Think about other aspects of your WW's life. I'm guessing she has a truck load of excuses to get what she wants. At least that's the case for mine now that I'm paying attention.
No one complimented my haircut = I get a new pair of shoes.
That person cut me off in traffic = big bowl of ice cream.
Kids were really whiny today = drunken girls night out.
I'm not 16 anymore = I'm going to behave like I'm 16 again.
It's a world of excuses for the entitled. How bout you develop some positive self esteem and cut for hair because you like it that way, not for others attention. How bout you sit down and watch a movie with your kids after a rough day so that they know they are still loved even when things aren't perfect, not going out on the town and doing your best Pretty Women impersonation. How about act your fucking age and show some self control.

Until the hole inside her is filled working on the marriage is an exercise in futility.
And by filling the hole I don't mean with asshat cock

Defiled, you hit the entitlement nail on the head, my friend. My STBXW is one that fits in this category. Unfortunately, she will never hold the capacity or introspect to look into that void within, where with anyone else a healthy spouses soul rests. Rather, she will continue down the path of entitlement, Homey Hopping from cock to cock until she is nothing more than an unpaid whore with a mouthful of STD's and ass full of canker sores.

[This message edited by HurtingandLost at 4:13 PM, August 8th (Friday)]


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 964 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
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