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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men Part 21
lordhasaplan?
♂ Member
Member # 30079
Default  Posted: 1:14 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

worn down,
Low self esteem.
Wife sent this to me this am
.

what was your response?
I know I'm an easy excuse for your behavior
I know I'm a good punching bag
I know I'm a good excuse for your problems
I know I'm going to live my life with a wife who fucked another man.
I know I'm Strong
I know I'm worthy
I know I'm able to walk away from you

Thanks for the note.


D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
No life should be passively relinquished due to the toxicity of others and taking steps to protect yourself may very well be the most important steps you will ever take.

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Nov 2010
WornDown
♂ New Member
Member # 37977
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&L -

When my wife had her first affair, after loosing #140 lbs, I asked her why she did it.

Her response: Beacuse he said I was hot, beautiful, sexy.

Me: Well, I tell you that.

Her: Yeah, but he wasn't you.


That was when I started to understand about their need for external validation/fullfillment. I equate it to the path of a junkie -

They start out with beer, then liquor, to kill the pain. Then when that doesn't cut it, perscription drugs. All the while taking more and more. Eventually each one isn't enough so they move to harder and harder drugs. End up in an alley shooting H.

The low self esteem cheater:

Just some flirting, getting compliments. Then guys buying drinks. Then phone numbers to get their fix 24/7 over the phone. Then lunch.

Then well, y'all know.

"I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do it
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said the little better than before"

- Guns 'N Roses, Mr. Brownstone

[This message edited by WornDown at 2:30 PM, August 14th (Thursday)]


Me: BH (43)
WW (43): Way to many guys to count
Three kids (D17, D15, S13)
Together 24 years, married 18

I held on to the dream of marriage for WAAAY too long.


Posts: 38 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Around the Block a few times
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then well, y'all know.

"I used ta do a little but a little wouldn't do it
So the little got more and more
I just keep tryin' ta get a little better
Said the little better than before"

- Guns 'N Roses, Mr. Brownstone

Damn Worn you keep hitting that nail on the head again its gonna break off!


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 987 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you'll suddenly realize you can make it on your own and decide to end it.

This can definitely go both ways. For me I never questioned that I would be fine on my own. She wouldn't need my income and I wouldn't need hers. Don't think I'd have a problem finding someone else if that's really what I wanted. But despite that I decided to stick and see if things couldn't be salvaged. If one day I wake up and decide that its over, well its over.

I have a lot invested in my relationship with the ww. Finances, time, children, and yes emotionally. I'm okay taking a gamble, seeing if she can continue to get her shit together and makes things work for us.

I do admit though that in some ways maybe I would be better off. I wouldn't have to face the hypocrisy of her saying I'm her best friend and that she never stopped loving me. And I wouldn't have to face her on a daily basis. I would probably be more emotionally healed as a person. Pulling that knife out is a much longer process when you still share a bed with them.

Your initial feeling to his comments probably let you know which direction your leaning though.

Montreal's quote below is exactly how you take power back

I am reconciling because I choose to, and I can choose not to at any point.


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 543 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
Sal1995
♂ Member
Member # 39099
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But nine years? I'm kind of torn on that.

sportsfan, I agree with Worn's take. On one hand I think honesty is the best policy, and this woman should know what kind of POS she is married to.

On the other hand, I find it almost impossible to believe that she hasn't found out what kind of man he is, or was, in all this time. The info you'll provide may not be timely enough to be helpful, and may do nothing more than stir some old pain back up.

Second, if things are going well in your marriage now, why risk messing that up? The OBS might come looking for your WW. And with all that fresh emotion in the air, a lot of negative feelings from the past could get stirred up in your own marriage.

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards suggesting letting this one be.


Me (BS)-45, WW-42
DDay 2/17/13, 9-10 month PA/EA
Final NC late Feb. '13
M - 18 years, 4 children
Reconciling

Posts: 1387 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Texas
Forged1
♂ Member
Member # 43418
Default  Posted: 4:14 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, man. I ran across H&L's thread about the cat being out of the bag and read the words 'Hitler vag'.

I had to set outside because I was pissing myself with laughter. One of my colleagues actually came outside after a minute to see if I was okay.

Oh, shit. That was awesome.


Me: BH - 30s
Her: WW - 30s

Married - 2008
PA with boss for at least 5 months in 2013, possibly longer.
DDay - Feb 2014
Separated, heading to D
==================================
At this stage, I'm pretty much bulletproof.


Posts: 271 | Registered: May 2014 | From: USA
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Indeed those doing R do R because they choose to, and full respect for that (I tried but she lasted a whole of 72 hours without going back to OM).

But do take into account the Sunk cost fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs

We've expended emotional energy, kids and our limited time in years with our WWs. They did what they did and we have no control over it.

So now we have essentially two cost curves. The sunk cost one that justifies us staying because of the past, and the one that is the opportunity cost of spending our future alone or finding someone else while still reasonably young. The longer we stay, the more opportunity cost we are spending on the sunk cost of our existing relationship.

To me, a WW should have done this calculation and decided to D before going with someone else (she certainly did enough more complex calculations to hide the A, sneak around and whatnot instead). So BSs are completely justified in thinking of her as sunk cost and making the decision a bit more coldly, in order to avoid commitment bias.

I am confident enough that I can, in time, find someone new, and by all accounts better value, because cheating is an enormously self-devaluing proposition. I would go back to her if I saw true remorse, which I don't. So instead I coldly think that I can find someone else at my current age, but 10 years from now, it may be too late (I don't know when the time wall will hit me with the ugly stick).

So the one with the dilemma is her at this point, not so much me. After all, I'm on my way to D. She doesn't seem to be reacting appropriately, still. And she probably never will, expecting me to do all the work of going back to her. I won't, and instead I'll D, heal and eventually find someone truly worthwhile. In the meantime, she'll try to start every relationship predicated on a lie - the lie that she is not the type to cheat (did I mention I came across her online dating profile and she's already lying on it? ) And time is passing, we're no longer in our 20s. So men will likely play with her and then get bored. Until she hits the time wall. And end up alone.

It's tragic, and I don't like it of course, but's the life she chose with her actions and not something I can help with. I wish she realized it and choose differently. But she's foggy still, and still trying to manipulate me, which I will no longer allow (and every attempt is a further mark against her and towards my ever diminishing future opportunity cost).

She calls the further manipulation attempts through the Ls and trying to take me to the cleaners "defending herself". She's still blind. She's not seeing the big picture. The more of a b.. she is the less value she proves. Maybe she's expecting to find someone right away. But I doubt any man will want her after that. And I feel sorry for anyone who does. Feel sorry for her, too. It's going to be a horrible future for her. Certainly not what she would have gotten should she had just stayed faithful.

[This message edited by GotPlayed at 6:20 PM, August 14th, 2014 (Thursday)]


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
WornDown
♂ New Member
Member # 37977
Default  Posted: 6:50 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This has been the hardest week I've experienced in a long time. The first DDay I was a wreck. the next 4-5, not so much.

But this week, I've broken down and cried at least 2x a day for the last 5 days; generaly only for about 5 minutes.. But i havent really cried in 7 years.

I guess i know 24 years are over. My family is over. That just hurts to the core.

What also hurts (the most?) is that WW won't even give me an answer to who the new guys are. or why she strung me along for 7 years.

All i get is "our marriage was broken and neither of us fixed it.""

Really? I stayed. tried to work on it. You dated..

I will never get closure. And that sucks.

I just hold on to "life will be better."


Sorry for dumping...that's why I rejoined. Need a place to put that.


Me: BH (43)
WW (43): Way to many guys to count
Three kids (D17, D15, S13)
Together 24 years, married 18

I held on to the dream of marriage for WAAAY too long.


Posts: 38 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Around the Block a few times
DefiledRage
♂ Member
Member # 39292
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The sunk cost one that justifies us staying because of the past, and the one that is the opportunity cost of spending our future alone or finding someone else while still reasonably young.

Sure, though I wouldn't necessarily define it a sunk cost. More of a return on my investment.

Merely wanted to add another perspective to the debate. Everyone has to do their own cost-benefit analysis. Everyone should listen to their gut and be honest as to which way that analysis is leaning.


M:14yrs
Dday 1 EA 7/8/2010
Dday 2 PA 3/1/2013 same OMM for 4yrs

Mister rabbit says, "A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers."


Posts: 543 | Registered: May 2013 | From: Two blocks from south shit and west hell
h0peless
♂ Member
Member # 36697
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will never get closure. And that sucks.

None of us ever get closure. It's a myth. Sort of like the Loch Ness Monster. It sucks, but eventually you learn to accept it.

Sorry you're hurting this week. It will get better over time, I promise. It will also really hurt in the short term. Try to learn something from the pain. At least something good will come out of it.


Posts: 1681 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Baja Arizona
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Return on investment, understood. Maybe it's because in my case, with an unremorseful WW, it really is a sunk cost. The ROI already happened. Now she took certainly more than her share, and it's really a sunk cost.

If she was remorseful I would still see it as an investment, for sure. As it stands getting her back is pretty much a guarantee she'll do it again, so taking her back would be creating a negative future.

So I look at the future opportunity cost instead,focusing on a positive future instead of the negative immediate past.

@WornDown, you're being heard, brother. This stuff is tough. We're glad you're here.

The word closure triggers me. She should have had closure... Of her legs. Instead OM got "closure" at a motel and I got "closure" via text. A little lopsided if you ask me, and really no closure at all.

But I've decided I don't believe in closure. I can make my own closure, thank you very much. Does it suck I don't have the closure? Yes. But it's not going to stop my life continuing.

We did what we could. We can walk with our head on high, and look at our kids in the eye when they are adults and ask why.

Strength, brother.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
WornDown
♂ New Member
Member # 37977
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GotPlayed,

About the head held high. yeah, I know I did what I could.

Those that know the whole situation, have told me I've done all I can.

And that's where I am - I did what I could; WW didn't (and won't).

So now it's time to move on.

Still hurts...cause I still love that woman

(damn it)

edit: I'm starting to take the view that I should like her like a cousin. I love her, but I can't solve all of her problems. (If that makes sense)


Me: BH (43)
WW (43): Way to many guys to count
Three kids (D17, D15, S13)
Together 24 years, married 18

I held on to the dream of marriage for WAAAY too long.


Posts: 38 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Around the Block a few times
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 8:41 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hang in there Worn. It DOES get better. I know what you mean about still loving your WW too. That too will lessen in THAT way, give it time. I wouldnt quite call it loving her like a cousin unless you plan on living here in the Northwoods. These folks might not quite get that analogy and start planning your next wedding


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 987 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
GotPlayed
♂ Member
Member # 41294
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@WornDown,

I love mine too, believe it or not. But I think that sometimes you must practice tough love. The only way she's going to change is by me pulling back, and her making a decision. Love also includes knowing when to let go.

I would create more damage if I stayed, because I'd be enabling her. Secretly I was happy when my L said (and this sticks to my mind even to this day), you can back out of a D until the minute before you send the papers to the judge, and theoretically, any time before the minute the judge signs it.

My pastor said, "there's always remarriage, if she changes". I'd be crazy to offer her that at this stage in the game, but it's still in my mind.

In the meantime though, we can't be pining, we can't be waiting for someone else to get her act together. We can't be self-validating through others. You have your own value. Prove it. That's more attractive on a man, for WW, x-WW or whoever you end up with, should you choose to end up with anybody.

And yeah, I also half-smiled at the cousin analogy. I do get it. But cousin is a bit of a stretch. I'm lucky WW doesn't look like any of my cousins. That could get weird and deep-Southern.


Master of my Fate, Captain of my Soul.
BS 42, WW 41. 18y married
DD: 11/5/13
DS10 Autism, DD8
OM: Reformed wife-beater ex-con
D filed 1/14/14 by WW (never warn them, they'll get ahead)
Married a powder keg

Posts: 730 | Registered: Nov 2013 | From: California
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

On the other hand, I find it almost impossible to believe that she hasn't found out what kind of man he is, or was, in all this time. The info you'll provide may not be timely enough to be helpful, and may do nothing more than stir some old pain back up.

:snip:

I'm leaning pretty heavily towards suggesting letting this one be.


I am behind on reading and always read backwards so I haven't read the post that generated the quoted comment above. My 2 cents on telling, my XWW had an A with a Pastor 1 year after we were married. I never knew it. Jump forward 3 years she starts her 3 year LTA with her married coworker. I didn't find out about the first A until she TT'd it about 3 months after dday of the 3 yr LTA. There were people that KNEW about her 1st A which by then was years ago and never told me. I was that the BS that had no idea my XWW was a lying cheating adulterer for years and I didn't know because no one told me. Even the other BS from the 3 yr LTA knew almost 2 years before I did but NEVER told me anything. DDay only happened because the OBS confronted my XWW and the POSER at his apartment and the police were called. XWW knew the police would be calling the house and even then she lied initially but I kept pressing until she finally caved and told me.

If even one person had opened their mouth after the 1st A or when the LTA started it would have saved me several years that I can't get back. Never assume another BS knows or doesn't want to know. I was that BH and so where many on this site until someone did tell us. What if no one told you and your WW was still out there with POSER and you had no idea.

I will finish catching up now so if this was out of context please ignore and consider it another plea for outing A's in general. Happy Friday gents!


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WornDown -

You've done everything you could possibly do to prevent your WW from her destructive path. Its tough watching someone you love, someone you planned on spending the rest of your life with, someone you have children with, continue on their downward spiral with eyes wide shut in denial.

I get it. Most of the menz on this thread who are unfortunate to have not only an unremorseful WW, but one with a mental disorder to boot GET IT. At this stage though, its best to take some advice (myself included) that has been posted time and again.

For your own well being, its time to let go. Redirect all of that energy that has been focused on HER on you. You can leave with your chin held high knowing you took the high road, knowing that you've done everything possible. Time to focus on YOU. YOUR healing. YOUR well being. YOU time.

Get out and make some new freinds, socialize, and pick up a couple of hobbies. Focus on those precious moments with the kids, showing them a strong, caring father who still has his integrity and morals intact. Reclaim YOU.

I get it. Living with a WW with this type of disorder can be suck your soul dry, and after years of it we lose sight of ourselves, our goals, our ambitions. We lose what made us feel unique and, well US. Time to feed that vampire some garlic, she's taking up way too much real estate in your head.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 987 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've got two close friends who went through sudden divorces, and they tell me it was the best thing that happened to them. They didn't realize how miserable they were in there marriages.

That's part of why I'm wondering if being on my own would be best for a while. With the craziness I've been living with, some time might be needed to figure out what reality really is.

Being single and divorced is better if you were married to an unremoresful WS. I'm divorced and I am much better off and I am actually happy. I will say that I didn't know or truly believe that I could be happy again while I was still with my XWW. The one thing I did know was whatever came after D HAD to be better than the HELL I was in still living with her. My options were stay and be miserable forever or leave and hope things were better without her. I made the right choice.

The part about not realizing just how miserable you are is very true. Everything is better when the negative, destructive, people are gone.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:04 AM, August 15th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Divorced 9/2/14 and loving life!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: May 2011 | From: VA
MadeOfScars
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Member # 42231
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just been reading along and nodding my head here. For me, in the span of less than 8 months, I went from thinking I was happily married to d-day, to thinking the woman of my dreams would be there forever to seeing an unremorseful monster materialize before me, and I went from married to divorced in what all seemed the blink-of-an-eye. It still hurts, and probably will always hurt, that I could be dismissed so easily, but, you know what? If my marriage were bound to end, it ended as mercifully as this kind of thing can.

You know what else? I wasn't happy before d-day. I just didn't want to admit it. Even before d-day, I knew she was changing. I could feel her slipping away. I ignored both my gut and my well-being, and I allowed her to pile the blame on me for why she felt she had to do what she did even before I truly realized what it was she was doing behind my back. She lied to me with ease. She made me feel less-than. She became a black-hole of self-absorbed pleasure seeking and adulteress action. The hell with the man who stood with her through thick and thin.

The idea of a life without her still scared me deeply. This wasn't how the story was supposed to go. Who the hell am I without her? It seemed an impossible task to find me again, but I'm doing it. I am gaining a perspective of who I am, what I'm about, and I know I can do this on my own. It's actually kind of exciting.It's freeing. It's like a weight being lifted off my shoulders that I didn't realize I had been carrying. Yes, I still deeply miss the woman I thought she was, or hell, may have been for a time. She still rents a small corner of my head-space. Rational people can't just turn off love like a light switch. That said, I know that even if there were a chance of reuniting, it would be a huge step back for me. The poison is leaving my body, so why would I knowingly ingest it again?

It has been said in this thread that there's no such thing as closure, and I'm inclined to agree. Real life doesn't neatly wrap up like the end of a movie or TV show. The questions don't all get answered. The conflicts don't all get resolved. The morale of the story isn't always summed up with a clever quote or anecdote. If there is such a thing as closure in regards to the betrayal we've all suffered, it's in living a life you're proud of after having been through this. I think, at this point, that's the best closure you can get, and it's a pretty damn good one.

Hang in there Worndown and all you great menz.


“The wound is the place where the Light enters you.” ― Rumi

Posts: 1110 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Texas
10yearsafter
♂ Member
Member # 43139
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Got Played You are only 42 you think that in ten years your chance to find another woman will be over.

Well I bring you good news at 52 I would have no problem finding a good woman.

Yes I am in good physical shape and do not look like an old dude but bottom line is if I were not married to FWW I would have no problem finding interested women.

I did not wear a wedding ring for 10 years. I chunked it after Dday.

Women would always strike up a conversation with me in the drug store, the grocery store just where ever.

FWW bought me a new wedding ring and it got worse.
Even more hits.

The receptionist at my Doctor's office told me once. If you were not married I would run away with you. I asked her why and she said there is just something about an older guy she's 24.

So see you got way more that 10 good years left go live your life and forget about WW. It is time to make yourself happy.


Posts: 188 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Texas
HurtingandLost
♂ Member
Member # 29322
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there is such a thing as closure in regards to the betrayal we've all suffered, it's in living a life you're proud of after having been through this. I think, at this point, that's the best closure you can get, and it's a pretty damn good one.

I'll second that MoS. Well said.


36 BH
Sons 16 and 8 Daughters 11, 7, 5.
Ex and STBX both cheated, thinking of getting a dog as a companion after D. At least they're loyal.

Posts: 987 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: MidWest
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