Think about that, forget trust for now but verify. She as to earn trust at this point.
Ways in which to verify, that you set the rules
No passwords on anything,
Total transparency of all electronic devices.
A written letter or phone call that you witness or review telling the OM that the relationship is over and to never contact her again.
To reveal who the OM is
this is just a few items.
As for gaslighting... it means she will use mental tricks on you to make you doubt yourself, blame yourself, back off to let her carry on her affair, downplay what she has done and up-play anything she can think of that she does not like about you and use it against you.
It is essentially more lies and deceit but used very manipulatively and methodically to essentially let her go on with what she wants to do and by deflecting your requests and wants
[This message edited by atreides at 11:10 AM, July 24th (Thursday)]
[This message edited by sparkysable at 11:34 AM, July 24th (Thursday)]
Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.
Do you really believe her? She's already said that she won't cut contact until she talks with him to see if there's a future. I don't know how much more blatant it can be shown that she doesn't give a shit about your marriage but this is a pretty clear cut case.
Even if you R, you'll always remember that she has no qualms about making you her plan B. I don't know how you could ever trust her after knowing that.
I say this because I was in your exact situation, guess what I did, I kicked her ass out and now where is she? Alone. Yep, plan A didn't work out like her incompetent brain had fantasized.
This was all after I tried to R with her. All I ended up was being a doormat. Don't be me.
Question for the SI community: is not revealing OM a deal breaker? I don't want to confront this person, but I want to avoid contact myself as I have the sick feeling it is someone I know.
what does that say to you?
I would not be able to live in a world where I didn't know who it was. You live in constant paranoia, is it the guy at the grocery? Some guy at work? The guy at the mechanic shop? Each of these senarios creates a slightly different R, she might need to get a new job, not go to the mechanic, etc, but you don't know. You lose all power. I would not live like that.
Me- BW, 30
Him- fWh, 36
Mostly R'd, minus a few scars...bought a house and got a puppy...And baby makes 3! She arrived August 2013
Keep in mind the therapist works for you, not the other way around.
You get to say what is a deal-breaker to you, what is important to you. It sounds to me like WW is being allowed to set the terms of recovery. At some point you are going to have to decide if a) you are rebuilding a marriage with someone who is genuinely concerned with you and remorseful, or b) you will need to decide that an open marriage is ok.
Refusing to allow full transparency is rugsweeping at its very worst. At least when you rug sweep you are acknowledging that there is a problem before you hide it. Here, you're being told that there may or may not be some debris that needs to be dealt with, and it isn't your concern what has been happening in your marriage. On top of that, some hack MC is trying to shovel that shit as well. Don't eat it.
BH (Me) 49
D-Day Mar 19, 2014
1 year passionate EA/PA, ended by me on d-day.
Attempting to R
Your course of action insures you will get nothing but continued hurt. Your MC is a QUACK. he should have been pressing her on how important it is answer all of your questions.
The responses you are getting are worded a little differently but are all saying the same thing
SHE IS CAKE EATING
SHE IS BLAME SHIFTING
YOU ARE PLAN B
SHE CARES MORE ABOUT OM THAN YOU
ANY R WILL BE ON HER TERMS
You can change that by stepping up and telling her what your demands are if she is still wanting to remain married. Call her bluff. Right now you remain her patsy.
If you continue to do what you are doing now, you will remain in an open marriage that you do not have a clue about.
You should not even be in MC with her right now until she shows some committment. All it will turn into is a blame you session. if OM is single and no family to blow up, why is his identity or anything about him so secretive. it is because she wants to be able to go back to him if she wants to.
New question: what is a VAR?
I think your gut is right. I think you have a good idea who the OM is. She isn't choosing to stay married to you. She is trying to secure her options and still seeing if it works out with OM or keep cake-eating.
Therapist seemed to back her on this and said that trust is like faith.
You are going around in circles here . This is the same therapist who have you the brilliant advice to take your wife on a beautiful vacation to reward her for fucking another man, refusing to stop being in contact with him, and refusing to divulge who he is so she can keep her affair alive.
You first step should be to lose this therapists phone number and address.
The he takes your WW side in this and tells you to have faith in her and trust her. I'd rather have faith in a cobra .!!!!
You will NOT nice her back. There has to be some consequences to her actions. There are none right now.
What you need to do is have the attorney draw up some papers, present them to her with a list of what YOU demand for your healing, and let her stew on that for a while. You can stop the process the minute she gets her head out of her ass, which will not happen until you show some backbone.
Sorry for the 2x4 but there is no way out of your mess for you with her attitude.
My response in MC would have been, either tell me OM's name or we get divorced. No questions asked.
Your MC is fucking idiot. No way he should have allowed her to keep her secret. Counselor needs to be fired like yesterday.
Sorry if I come across harshly. Her refusing to give you the name is complete BS.
Though much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are
[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 7:30 AM, July 30th (Wednesday)]
"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife
I haven't posted for awhile here but SI was a God-send during the time of my now XH's multiple DDs and false R. You story resonates with me because of the length of your marriage. I was married for 24 years before I realized my self worth. My (now) XH has marked narcissistic tendencies and I had a very difficult time terminating the relationship (co-dependency stuff).
Just needed to repeat what others have already stated (more succinctly than I).
1. Your WW thinks more of her relationship with her OM than your marriage. Think about it--if she truly wants to continue with you she should be doing EVERYTHING IT TAKES (identifying OM and then some...) to make things right with you. MC won't work unless BOTH parties are invested (I went through ineffective MC as well.)
2. There are 3 people in your marriage right now. She thinks it's OK. Classic cake eating. Close the bakery.
3. You can't "nice" her into coming back.
4. Good for you for seeing a lawyer! Wish I had done that earlier than I did. Now go ahead and file. If she is truly remorseful (and the act of filing might wake her up) you don't need to go through with the divorce.
5. Respect yourself. You will get through this.
[This message edited by moonview at 4:03 PM, July 29th (Tuesday)]
In no way is this your fault - other people's relationships are just that - private, individual and each buffeted by their own unique circumstances.
if you could bear to not make any hasty decisions right now, but to be strong and to talk.
To really open up and ask your WS to do the same, you may be able to connect on a level that 30 years of togetherness deserves.
I know you are hurting so very badly right now, but it may be that (unwittingly) your condition has caused her such anguish in the past that she has become vulnerable to the emotional support that an outsider (non bi-polar) OM has been able to provide.
I know that it is not your 'fault' that she has had an A, i wouldn't try to suggest that for one minute.
But as the BS of a bi-polar man, i can empathise with the significant strain that this can put on any marriage.
Can you be honest with her?
Do you feel that if you could be totally transparent about your hopes, fears, strengths and weaknesses, that she could open up to you in reciprocation?
30 years is a long time, she may feel that although she loves you deeply, she needs support for herself.
Unfortunately, it looks like she may have found it elsewhere, but if you COULD find a way to step back and calmly, rationally talk to her about your 30 years together - what she feels, what she has suffered - there may indeed be hope to save your lives together.
Even if not - maybe you could part (if not as friends) but with a deeper understanding of what actually happened for her to take such a drastic step after all these years?