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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 9
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, July 18th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To add a little bit to 20Wrongs --

I also remember that lies didn't effect me in the slightest. I was so compartmentalized and so far in denial, that nothing I said really meant anything. Truth, lies, whatever was easiest. It also leached into the rest of my life, too.

today, I try not to lie, even those "little polite lies" that people do all the time. I hate all of those things that I used to do.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 1:53 AM, July 19th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry if these have been asked, but I'm trying to wrap my head around this one:

1. During the affair, were any days considered off limits, or nonaffair days, like holidays, anniversaries, birthdays, etc?

2. if no, were you conscious of the days during and did that change guilt or anything?

I guess I just feel extra betrayed and don't understand why there wasn't a "sorry, this is my kid's birthday, no sex today."


“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

Posts: 740 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 11:55 PM, July 19th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lark, my AP was pushy and demanding when she wasn't getting the sex she wanted from me. I just made excuses why I couldn't have sex with her on my wife's birthday, for example. She would then accuse me of "saving it up" for my wife. AP just wanted it all, and would emotionally punish me if I didn't give it to her.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 2:17 AM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello. Me again. Thank you so much for this forum. I find it to be the most helpful with seeing into the mind of what goes on during an affair. While nothing justifies what my estranged WH did, it does help me to realize where he was during that time. We are 6 months out from DDay. He did not apologize or fight for me that night, which I took as his decision to stay with her. And he did for 2 months after. He then came to his senses and made a clean break and has not had any contact with her since. He has been completely honest and transparent and really wants to reconcile and be the man he says I deserve. But he is having a hard time answering my questions about his feelings during that time. He says what he can tell me is hindsight and he doesn't know his exact feelings at the time. That he was an idiot and that was the biggest mistake of his life. He told me that he did tell her he loved her but he did not mean it, which is hard for me to comprehend. When I bring up the topic if his 'feelings' for her, he tells me that it wasn't as big as I make it out to be. That yes, what he did was huge. He does not discount that, but that his relationship with her was not how I think it was and that it was toxic. My WH is not a man to be controlled, but she did. I feel he gave her control over him, as well as our marriage. Control that I, as his wife, never asked for. How can his relationship not be as much as I make it out to be when he jeapordized everything to be with her and initially chose to stay with her?


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
sarahstar
♀ Member
Member # 43889
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question: How can you still love your wife but get aroused and enjoy sex with another woman? Is it 'just sex' thing for men? Is it that easy? My husband said it was just sex with the prostitute but he still kissed her boobs.
As a female, it would feel wrong to have sex with another man without having feelings involved.
How can you not think about your betrayed spouse whilst you are having sex with someone else?
After talking to my WH, I get the feeling he was more aroused with the prostitute than what he gets with me.
Also, I know I have been asking my WH lots of questions and its been 6wks now and yesterday he got angry and walked off saying he was over it. How much is too much to ask? Im not asking or talking about it everyday and I am really trying not to talk about it.

[This message edited by sarahstar at 8:28 PM, July 20th (Sunday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Jun 2014
kickintheface
♀ Member
Member # 34350
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

QUESTIONS - My WW has done very little to change anything about himself since the A. He wasn't a horrible person by any means, but I now see him as a completely different person. Why would he not be making improvements to try to draw me back to him? It's been 4 years, he is still the same physically and has also not opened up emotionally. Again, not a bad guy but doesn't seem to be putting in any real work. I feel like I have had to make adjustments and have had to learn how to live with the person who ripped my heart out. Why wouldn't he make the effort to step out of his comfort zone and do the things I need, like opening up emotionally.

Also, we have talked about the affair numerous times and he has apologized, but he has never cried and to me that would be showing me that he is opening up completely. He did cry recently but not because of the affair..he cried because I wouldn't have sex with him. (first time he has ever cried in our 13 years together). He is a very affectionate person, I am not (anymore). I need the emotional, he needs the physical. Our love languages are completely different. I know he loves me (in his way) but it's just not enough anymore.

And...after your spouse found out about the affair, how did you view her when you would have sex? Did you see her as weak because she allowed sex after all the pain that was caused? Did you feel powerful because she was trying to please you? OR would you rather she stand up for herself and deny sex to preserve her self worth and not feel degraded?

Sorry that was long! I can't get the answers out of him, maybe you guys can give me some insight.


BS-Me (38), WS-Him (37) M-13 yrs
2 innocent children
EA OW-ex fiance/Mother of his OC that is 14, just found this out.
The hardest part about walking away from someone is when you realize that no matter how slow you go, they will never run after you.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Dec 2011
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, July 20th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Busy weekend in here.

Lark

1. Nope. I sent BH off to a golf tournament for (not exactly on, but close to) his birthday so I could meet AP at a hotel. I was only interested in feeding my own selfish needs at that time.
2. I never felt guilty, about anything, before or during the affair, because my wires were disconnected.

Lark, you cannot wrap your head around it because her choices were completely crazy and f'ed up.

Hopeful74, it's not an excuse, but honestly I feel my behavior during the A's was temporary insanity. I acted in many ways that were completely out of character. I'm sorry your WH is minimizing his "relationship" with OW. It is hard, once we stop out of bullshit fantasyland, to put ourselves back into the crazy, but I guarantee he can remember. He just doesn't want to. Maybe to *protect you,* or simply just to cover his ass.

sarahstar, I'm not a man, so I guess I cannot comment on that part of your question. But, if he's getting angry and shutting down when you ask him questions, that is a huge red flag. My concern is that he's still hiding something major. Why are you trying not to talk about it? So he won't get angry? Umm, no. Don't back down. He is the guilty party here, and should be bending over backwards to help you feel safe. Please don't let him sweep this under the rug, or I fear it'll happen again.

kick, you asked a lot of questions that I can't answer, in part I think because of the male/female dynamic. More importantly though, you can't get answers out of him? He's done very little to change since DDay? He's not putting in the work? You say "it's just not enough anymore," and I'm inclined to agree. Not sure I can provide any insight. I think you've already answered your own question. Trust your gut.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1237 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lark
Picture A-land as an entirely different world. In that world your BS's bday does not exist. So if/when you are with AP on a special day, it's not like you are thinking "ha-ha I'm doing this on BS's bday" you just aren't thinking of BS at all. The times I did feel extra guilt was during 'transitions', like when I was driving home after seeing AP. In those instances the worlds collide in your head. But I would quickly push those thoughts out of my mind, for mental survival's sake.

Hopeful74

but that his relationship with her was not how I think it was and that it was toxic

You have an impression on what it should mean when your H tells you he loves you, and I'm guessing you think if he tells someone else the same thing it should mean the same thing. That's a reasonable assumption, but I understand what your H is saying when he says you are not understanding correctly. I had very strong feelings when in my A, and it was hard to put a name on them. Love is the best one we have but infatuation/obsession/addiction is much more accurate. Once you kick the habit, you can see that it's not love, even though that's the word you used at the time. At least for me

kickintheface

Everything 20Ws said. All I can add is that IMO using sex as a reward or punishment for other issues on the relationship is what causes couples to become distant (speaking from first hand experience there too). But if all your WH does is take, and isn't giving you what you need, something needs to change.


Posts: 223 | Registered: Mar 2014
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for answering all. I feel like I'm trying to understanding something that really isn't rational anyway.

Lark
Picture A-land as an entirely different world. In that world your BS's bday does not exist. So if/when you are with AP on a special day, it's not like you are thinking "ha-ha I'm doing this on BS's bday" you just aren't thinking of BS at all. The times I did feel extra guilt was during 'transitions', like when I was driving home after seeing AP. In those instances the worlds collide in your head. But I would quickly push those thoughts out of my mind, for mental survival's sake.

Yes, my WH said the same thing, that he would have moments driving home where he'd be consumed with guilt and would scream at himself he had to stop.

I told him it sucked he couldn't have those thoughts on the way to. But I guess on the way home makes more sense given what you said. And once home, he'd be already transitioned and would just start texting again.


“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” - Dumbledore

Posts: 740 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
BecomingMe
♀ New Member
Member # 44183
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lark, hopefully I can still answer. Yes, my OM and I tried to be respectful in some ways. We avoided sex on spouses's birthdays and anniversaries. His BW's birthday is the anniversary of the day we met, but we still avoided sex on that day.

I never had sex with OM and my husband on the same day, usually not even within a few days.

I also tried to be respectful when OM had to talk to his family. Sometimes we traveled together, and I would either go into a different room or we would take turns making the calls in the lobby when we needed to phone home.


Posts: 18 | Registered: Jul 2014
sarahstar
♀ Member
Member # 43889
Default  Posted: 6:00 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20WrongsVs1, thanks. I am trying not to talk about it for me as well as for him. We have talked about it all a lot and I want to move on from the rotten thing he did. But I also don't want to talk about it too much because there is nothing worse than a broken record of someone going on and on about something.

Posts: 113 | Registered: Jun 2014
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, July 21st (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kick, your WH does need to step out of his comfort zone. What cemented my BW to decide to separate was that I wasn't doing enough of the things to help her feel safe, to feel emotionally supported, to feel truly cared for. I did the things that I could easily do, but those by themselves were not sufficiently comprehensive to help her heal. And, yes, our love languages are quite different--I'm touch and she's quality time & words. I didn't reach out to her enough on her terms.

I think the first time my BW and I had sex after d-day, I was truly surprised that she wanted me at all, if ever again. It honestly didn't cross my mind about her feeling degraded or a doormat, or needing to please me--the "pick me dance", or "reclaim" me from my AP. I was just a big, dumb lunk happy to be having unexpected sex with my wife. As I started reading on SI and in books, I learned about hysterical bonding. As time went along and she moved out of that phase, we had a lot less sex. She would initiate most of it mainly because I was reluctant to push it out of respect for her feelings. What I found out later is that because I wasn't asking for sex, it left my BW feeling ugly, unwanted, and inferior to my AP, which is the exact opposite of how I felt about her.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
BrokenheartedWif
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Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you had a long term affair. Why did you maintain the affair and lies for so long, and not just divorce your spouse?


If you carried on the affair in the marital home, why did you do that?


If you took your AP to your spouses bed, why would you do that to your spouse?

Thank you


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
tfkeel
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Member # 19517
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And, if you involved your BS's children, was it because you thoroughly planned to leave and create a "new life" ?

Posts: 528 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Pennsylvania
kickintheface
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Member # 34350
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ThatGuyNoMore....you nailed it! That is exactly my husbands mentality about all this...and it frustrates me. Again, he wasn't/isn't a horrible person by any means...but I want him to want to be more. Does that make sense? I don't want to think of him of the bad guy anymore and as long as he stays the same, I'm afraid I will always see him that way. I just want him to grow from this, to become motivated to better himself and our family but he does exactly as you said...he maintains. No better, no worse. I have no concerns whatsoever that he is unfaithful in anyway but I do feel he is cheating himself.

Thanks everyone for your replies.


BS-Me (38), WS-Him (37) M-13 yrs
2 innocent children
EA OW-ex fiance/Mother of his OC that is 14, just found this out.
The hardest part about walking away from someone is when you realize that no matter how slow you go, they will never run after you.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Dec 2011
BecomingMe
♀ New Member
Member # 44183
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenheartedWif
I had a LTA. It started during years that my husband was working overseas. I thought I could end it when he came home, but I had already fallen for OM. I saw myself in a polyamorous relationship, and OM convinced me it could last forever. I loved my H and didn't want to leave him. But I didn't know how to let go of OM. The lies and the double-life was hard every single day.

We had the A in my home because my H wasn't living there most of the time.

We did go to OM's house a few times, mostly out of necessity. I didn't go there to hurt his BW. I just liked to see where he lived. And I liked to feel a part of his "real" world.


Posts: 18 | Registered: Jul 2014
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lark --

During the affair, were any days considered off limits, or nonaffair days, like holidays, anniversaries, birthdays, etc?

Everyone is different. For me, I think that when I was with my family, that I didn't talk to AP. I mean things like Christmas and vacations. When we all went to a football game together, or were at the inlaws pool, then all bets were off.

For me, not contacting the AP during family time was a way I justified the A in my mind. I was doing it "on my time" and not taking anything from BW or my family. Just another example of the screwed up thinking in a wayward brain.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kickintheface --

And...after your spouse found out about the affair, how did you view her when you would have sex? Did you see her as weak because she allowed sex after all the pain that was caused? Did you feel powerful because she was trying to please you? OR would you rather she stand up for herself and deny sex to preserve her self worth and not feel degraded?

None of these. I feel lucky that she will expose herself (emotionally and physically) to me after I hurt her. I feel ashamed of myself for downgrading sex to far less than sharing with my BW.

I sure don't feel like a stud, like she is trying to do anything to keep me. I don't think that she's weak. Going through this requires more strength than I ever thought that she had.

I hope BW doesn't feel degraded when we have sex. I think we have sex when we feel close, and it helps reestablish trust and normalcy and intimacy in our relationship.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
BrokenheartedWif
♀ Member
Member # 40955
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Becoming Me.

We had the A in my home because my H wasn't living there most of the time.

Did you ever think about how your husband would feel that you did that in his house and bed?

We did go to OM's house a few times, mostly out of necessity. I didn't go there to hurt his BW. I just liked to see where he lived. And I liked to feel a part of his "real" world.
Did you asked to be done in her bed or did he just take you to her bed?


He claims he loved me the whole time of his LTA. I'm not sure I'll survive his kind of love.

Posts: 70 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: Central IN
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had LTA's. I never wanted to leave my M. I thought about it sometimes, but it was never really an option. I did love my BW, but somehow convinced myself that I needed more, and that it was OK for me to have an A. It was never about my feelings for my BW.

I know this is hard to understand, but I swear it was true for me and for lots of people here. For me, it wasn't about leaving my old life. In my mind, I had my regular life, and this separate A life. And I told myself that so long as I kept them separate, both were OK.

As for the A in the home, the marital bed, etc., those are all such tiny steps compared to the A in general. Once I decided it was OK to have sex with someone else, nothing else was taboo. I convinced myself that my A was OK. Having sex in my bed, or hers, was barely a thought on that path.

By the way, I don't mean to be casual or flippant about that stuff. Writing it now just sickens me. I understand the extra betrayal and pain that having sex in the same bed as BW and I did caused. I am just saying that it didn't matter at that time.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 633 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
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