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I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 9
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 7:42 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Plainpain,
Question. Do you think telling the AP that you love your spouse was part of what made the A hot for your AP and for you? I mean, did you actually mean it when you told the AP that you loved your spouse, or was it just part of the illicit affair hotness? Why would you bother to tell the AP that you loved your spouse, when by all appearances you didn't?
Although I never said anything specific about my love for my husband or my feelings for the AP, my AP and I did discuss family events and mentioned spouses and kids, and never in a negative way. Looking back, I think I was trying to reinforce the notion that the affair was not supposed to be something serious or lasting. And to pretend that it wasn't so bad. Perhaps that's part of it - as long as you claim to love your spouse, you're not that bad... Ludicrous, yes. For me it wasn't part of affair 'hotness', but part of the mental gymnastics to enable it. I'm sorry you're dealing with it.

~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 817 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
HormonalWoman
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Member # 29265
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there an answer to the how could you question? I know there are many ways a wayward can justify it to themselves, but how did you bypass your own beliefs and morals about infidelity to do it anyway?


Together 13 yrs
BW - Me
WH - Him
3 Children
DD 20th June 2010 actual affair was early 2008 for roughly 10 wks.

Posts: 244 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes something will come on TV that reminds me of my FWH's A. It's almost as if he senses it, because he always says "I love you" at that moment.

Example: We're currently watching season 1 of American Horror Story. The male lead is telling AP that he never loved her, and he used her, and blah blah blah. I start thinking "I wonder if this is really how WS feels." Right then, he looks at me and says "I love you". I always wonder if these things make him think of the A, or if he's seeing my face and wants to shut down any possible backlash because of the A talk.

Throughout the show, for those that haven't seen it, there are a LOT of A related items. My H had no problem talking as if the male lead was the biggest POS on the planet. It's a bit annoying, as he's not some innocent bystander in the A world, but it is what it is.

Thanks in advance


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry - double post (stupid internet)


[This message edited by painfulpast at 9:44 AM, July 28th (Monday)]


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1893 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hormonalwoman

For me, as I suspect is the case for most waywards, it boils down to being a selfish, entitled arsehole. We just didn't care about anything or anyone, except ourselves.

Painfulpast

Personally, A related stuff on TV triggers me to my husband's pain. I don't think of the A but I think of how much he is hurting because of the A. So I always ask if he wants to change the channel or if he is ok. If he is within touching distance I will squeeze his hand or give him a kiss. The purpose of this is to reassure him that I am here for him, that I understand his triggers and show my support. It's never to shut down discussion, by acknowledging the trigger I am inviting discussion about it.

Before my A, infidelity was never abhorrent to me. I always thought it was wrong and horrible but I had a 'it's not the end of the world' mentality about it (that's due to my FOO)
Now, I get it. I know what it does to people and it's disgusting and vile behaviour. Yes it does seem hypocritical to think this way as a WS but that's part of the healing process a WS goes through.
Your WH can most likely see himself in this TV character and sees what a POS he was during the A but his attitudes and boundaries are changing, which is good!


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
jb3199
♂ Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is aware of the book thread in Wayward. She did show me, and ask if I knew specifically if any may be more geared to her mindset.

And that is really what I guess that I am asking. When I gave a brief overview in my original post, it wasn't me reaching out because I am at my wit's end...at least not about this. What I was/am looking for, is a book, or books, that really struck home with you. I know that this is her mess to fix, but if she is asking for help, I at least want to offer help up to a point where I fear codependency may come into play. I am still under the belief that if she was willing to apply herself here on SI, that she could gain more help and support than any book has to offer, but that is just my opinion. Different methods for different people. But unless you make a personal COMMITMENT to want to improve, then nothing is going to happen. There is no magic book, website, medication, or any other source that is going to do the work for you.

I may be frustrated, but I am a realist.


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

but how did you bypass your own beliefs and morals about infidelity to do it anyway?

For me, it was gradual. Barriers were broken down with AP. We'd start talking about personal stuff and comparing our problems. Then we flirted. Then we kissed. Then more.

At each step, I had to make a decision. Since the world didn't end when we kissed, for example, I felt OK to do more.

To do that, I had to compartmentalize a whole lot. Convince myself that this relationship with AP didn't matter, because it was in its own little box. It was against my morals, but I could just not think about it. I knew I was wrong, but I was able to set aside those thoughts, just for enough time to carry out the A. That amount of compartmentalizing is not normal. That is a powerful muscle, too. The more I did it, the easier it became.

In addition to, or probably in aid of that compartmentalizing, I'd make all kinds of justifications. Lots of them were that my BW didn't care about me. She was distant, I was being neglected, I deserved to be happy. then they really got bad -- I'd think those silly things like people weren't meant to be monogamous, that if I was doing it on "my own time" I wasn't harming my family, that I was just filling up my cup so that I didn't have to walk out on my M. Somewhere along the way, I convinced myself that I loved AP, that I was helping her dark life, that I wasn't hurting anyone.

Someone upthread asked why some people could and some could not have an A. I know that my mental issues: allow me to compartmentalize; allow me to justify my bad behavior; allow me to blame everyone else for my shortcomings; allow me to feel entitled to what I want without consequence; and allow me to take an easy way out instead of facing conflict. Some of that I think is chemical -- I would get depressed, and not care about much of anything. But a lot of it was not chemical. After I got my depression meds right, I still carried out my A. I didn't know how to face my other problems.

I don't know if all those "ingredients" are necessary. But in my case, that's why I had an A. So many people that I know don't have those issues -- they understand consequences, or they cannot compartmentalize like that because their morals come through across the board. Those people probably could not have an A.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H had no problem talking as if the male lead was the biggest POS on the planet. It's a bit annoying

It is pretty possible that your WH feels like a huge POS himself. Saying ILY at a time when you may trigger may be a conscious effort to soften that trigger. Or to tell you that he doesn't want to be that character.

As an aside, BW and I used to exhale in relief when an episode of Season 1 ended. Like "whew, we made it through that one".


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"After the Affair" by Janis Spring was the very first thing I read. I think it is one of the most comprehensive, generally applicable book about the A and its effect on both partners.

It doesn't dig into the whys much. I think that may be a specialized question. But just for living through the first couple of months, After the Affair was a godsend for both me and BW.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
jb3199
♂ Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"After the Affair" by Janis Spring was the very first thing I read. I think it is one of the most comprehensive, generally applicable book about the A and its effect on both partners.
It doesn't dig into the whys much. I think that may be a specialized question. But just for living through the first couple of months, After the Affair was a godsend for both me and BW.

Does it discuss about how the WS moves forward...i.e., setting up boundaries, making their environment safer...or does it more or less describe the fallout of the affair?


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another question from a BS trying my damnest to make sense of it all (I know that is ludicrous) and find hope. Is it possible for a WS to do all that they can to change themselves, do the therapy and make things work, only to fall right back into a fog and do it again? And, if so, was your BS wiser the next time? Or were they blindsided yet again? Thanks again!


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After The Affair is a good one for moving forward and creating boundaries. As is Not Just Friends. Both of those really helped me.

You've mentioned Co-Dependency a few times, JB. Have either of you read anything about that? Because if you're Co-D then your WW is too (well, she's the dependent side of the dynamic between the two of you, especially with her alcoholism.) Co-Dependent No more by Melody Beattie is definitely worth a read.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 3:18 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopeful

I think situation would mean the WS never really got it or did enough work on them the first time around. They may have gone to IC but it was probably not a good counsellor and they didn't dig deep enough etc. I've been on SI for seven months and I haven't see that happen to any of the waywards that use SI.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is it possible for a WS to do all that they can to change themselves, do the therapy and make things work, only to fall right back into a fog and do it again?

I think that it is possible. I hate to compare my mindset during the As to an addiction, because I do not want to minimize any physical addiction. But it is kind of a go to comparison for a lot of us.

I have all of those awful tendencies in me. If I am not vigilant, I could fall back there. The thing I am most concerned about is depression. I know that I could react to a negative situation by saying "screw it, I'm going to withdraw." If I do that too many times, I may end up right back where I was. The same thing goes for boundaries.

The part where BBT is right is that my work has shown me 100% the danger of that. It has shown me how completely miserable and out of my mind I was back then.

I do not ever want to go back there. So I am vigilant. I monitor my AD meds. I just tried to cut them, and had some little hiccups. No one noticed them except me, but I resumed the higher dose right away. I keep my boundaries. I try to not say "whatever" or "it doesn't matter" because those are ways I used to withdraw.

Where I am at today doesn't guarantee success. But it shows me what I need to do. It makes it possible to keep it up. But if you don't do the work in the first place, you never get there.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
jb3199
♂ Member
Member # 27673
Default  Posted: 6:12 AM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You've mentioned Co-Dependency a few times, JB. Have either of you read anything about that? Because if you're Co-D then your WW is too (well, she's the dependent side of the dynamic between the two of you, especially with her alcoholism.) Co-Dependent No more by Melody Beattie is definitely worth a read.

I only use the codependent term because of this perceived "attempt" to fix her this time around. It really is not the case, and I don't believe that codependency is taking place. I have no illusions or delusions about how this relationship will play out.

I know the drill from my side of the table. I am on my path to getting out of infidelity, and have zero thoughts of trying to control any outcome. But that being said, WW is asking for some guidance based merely on the fact that I have been a student of infidelity for the last several years. I owe her NOTHING in the way of help, but would like to help steer her in the right direction, if it is at all possible.

All the work is on her. She knows this, as do I. But I also know that there are some damaging books out there for someone who is trying to start to understand the depths to which they have sank. I believe that reading the "wrong" material at this time can make huge delays in the potential recovery steps. Personally, that is why I am a big fan of her trying to post here, but again, that is entirely up to her...


BH-46
WW-44
2 boys-17 & 20(special needs)
Married 21yrs.(together 27yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day: 9/18/09 D-Day#2: 2/19/10 The Marriage Killer: 6/6/11
Heading for D


Posts: 2052 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: northeast
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question: How do you feel when your BS makes disparaging comments about your AP? Saying your AP was ugly or a "user" or whatever? Do you agree with your BS, do you feel defensive for the AP, does it make your BS look pathetic?


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 807 | Registered: Jul 2013
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ooooh Plainpain that is a good one! I wanna know the answer, as well. I have never spoken about a woman the way I have about my H's AP!!! I never want to hear him say her name. She is whoreface to us!


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you feel when your BS makes disparaging comments about your AP?

I don't think I have ever tried to defend my AP. I realize BW is very insecure about me wanting to be with BW and not AP. I might not be a smart man, but I know that any defense of AP will only make that feeling grow.

I try very, very hard to never bring up AP or anything that might remind BW of AP. I think I have done a decent job of thinking before I speak most of the time. I have swallowed lots of statements that may have led BW down that path. For example, a few weeks ago, there was a good band playing at a club that AP and I used to go to. I saw it and was going to mention the band, just an offhand remark. Luckily, my filter caught that remark before I said it out loud.

Your first question was "how do I feel?" I feel pretty bad. First off, my A was pretty much 50/50. So when someone calls AP something horrible, I automatically think that same thing about myself. Which is 100% true. It's not that I feel defensive for AP. It's just that in my case, she is no worse than I am. Which is really bad, I know. At the same time, I cannot bash AP or think badly of her/them.

The bigger point is that when BW says something about AP, I know that BW is comparing herself to AP. I know that comes from BW's pain and insecurity, which I have caused. I hate that BW feels that way. BW still has this thought in her mind that someday I will pick AP. I feel terrible when I know she is thinking that way.

I have tried to show BW that my As had nothing to do with the APs. They were all about my brokenness. There is nothing special about the AP that would make them an alternative to BW. BW knows this, and given enough time and good behavior, she might actually believe it.


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 538 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Lark
♀ Member
Member # 43773
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the things I've been struggling with with my husband is understanding how much of his affair is a "new" development/breakage in his character or if it was there all along and I just never noticed it and it was just waiting for a trigger to emerge to the surface.

For the WS,do you feel like your wayward behavior resulted from character or internal issues that you had all along? Or was it a fairly confined or recent creation of issues?

My husband swears he's never had an affair in any previous relationship. I recognize some boundary issues I think he's always had - he's a KISA, charming to people - though never crossed the line to flirting or indicating interest - and when I met him he was separated from his first wife, living separately, and they were seeing other people but he had not yet actually divorced (neither seemed to be particularly concerned with it because it was just "another piece of paper"). perhaps I downplayed those to myself all along, or perhaps they were within the range of normal. But the "break" in him that led to the affair seems to be something I can trace back to a particular time period in which he began creating social networks and beginning behaviors that were not marriage or family friendly - i.e. hanging out with a bunch of guys after work/at the gym for hours, started smoking pot with these guys, starting to lie to me about both things

in Not just Friends, it talks about differentiating between a person who lies versus a liar, and it's very unsettling to not really know if this is a recent, isolated - but obviously must be fixed so it doesn't happen again - breakage in him or if he was broken all along.


"Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul." - William Ernest Henley

Posts: 524 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: California
NoGoodUsername
♂ Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, July 29th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question: How do you feel when your BS makes disparaging comments about your AP? Saying your AP was ugly or a "user" or whatever? Do you agree with your BS, do you feel defensive for the AP, does it make your BS look pathetic?

My BS is very focused and accurate in her condemnations. Even when she is in huge pain, she doesn't indulge in much hyperbole. As a result, it's very easy to agree with her and actively support her criticisms. No, it doesn't make her look pathetic. It makes her look hurt and we all know whose fault that is.
I don't feel protective of my AP at all. She committed her sins, just as I committed mine. She helped me blow up all of our lives and she doesn't get any more of my energy. My efforts are for my BW and myself.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

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