Either way, it's nice to hear there might be a light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks for sharing.
he obviously is not doing any serious work on himself.
Your WH's insistence that he was there to just "talk about nothing" and that somehow as a married guy with three children that any scenario in which he finds himself at her house in the middle of the night talking about nothing is an okay one, well that's concerning. Whether she was the one that made the first move or not, he deliberately put himself in a situation where it was a possibility that that could happen. And he probably did that because he was chasing a feeling. The feeling of being attractive, that was my juice. Maybe it's his.
So, I did this kind of thing a lot. When my cyber/EA affair with AP went physical, it was during a time I planned for him to help me move some of my stuff cross country. I would have told anyone and everyone that there was no way anything was going to happen, that I had good boundaries, and that I was in control of the situation. I would never, ever have let anyone tell me that as a married person it was a risky situation for me and my marriage and hurtful to my BS that I was even putting myself in it. No way I was giving up my two days of just feeling incredibly attractive to this person I had developed a secretive online relationship with. Basically I always had some kind of mental plausible deniability (to myself) that what I was doing was not as bad as it seemed, that my situation was different. Over time my not-okay-o-meter, which was never all that well calibrated, got very out of whack.
It has taken a lot of time and effort to figure out that the problem really was me, and then knowing that figuring out how to fix it. The fixing is a very slow process, because it involves finding more broken stuff along the way, and integrating those into the overall brain remodeling plan as well.
It sounds like your WS might have not even begun to figure out that the problem is him, and that he may be employing that plausible deniability strategy for coping with difficult things. That doesn't mean that he won't ever figure it out, but it's a very real possibility. Without any evidence at all that he is willing to look inward and face some really uncomfortable stuff, probably moving on to healing on your own is a good strategy.
I am so sorry you have been put through this. I wish safety and healing for you and your family.
[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 12:37 AM, August 15th (Friday)]
Digging our way through.
WH was apparently totally disconnected from me when writing these things. He maintains that he continued to love me throughout the affair and writing those things was about saying something out there so she would want to continue feeding him the ego kibbles.
Can anyone help me to understand how that is possible, I get that it's most likely dissociation and compartmentalisation on WH's part... I guess I'm looking to see if others did this as well. To me this is horrifying and I can't even imagine being capable of doing it. Please, anything that might help would be appreciated!
My WW made me feel really bad about this in the beginning and would say things like "if we are to remain together we need to do so on equal terms - why should different rules apply to us? Also i need to protect the integrity of the friends who help and support me through this". She even once told one of our closest friends, whom we have told about the A, that she better erase texts and emails on HER phone when she and WW were communicating about the A as she knew I was checking up on WW's phone/emails. The thing for me is that while I NEVER would have had any issues with my WW checking my email etc. in the past (which she did every now and then - likely because she was projecting her own unfaithfulness on me) I now suddenly have a stronger need of privacy. Not that I have anything at all to hide, but I'd rather she didn't read all my posts on this forum for example. Any other waywards out there willing to weigh in?
D-day #2 Jan 18, 2014: 12 month EA/PA (AP#3)+ admission of 5 month EA/PA in 1994 (AP#1).
D-day #1 May 2001: 2 month EA/PA (AP#2)
I caught a glimpse of a text he'd sent to his IC the other day - I think he doesn't want to share this kind of thing with me at the moment and I have to accept it. For me it's part of what I have to do. Maybe later when we are working more on our M itself rather than just R (does that make sense?) it's something we'll talk about. For now there are plenty of other more pressing issues IMO.
Early on I thought I was entitled to 2-way transparency, but that was because I was just projecting my fears about a revenge A.
My BW is entitled to privacy because she needs some safe places where she can explore her pain, her feelings about me and what I've done, and what her evolving plans for the future might be. She has to be free and safe to explore all that. If I'm snooping into her stuff, it's just going to make her feel even less secure.
She did agree to allow me privacy of my journal where I can explore my feelings safely. Initially she did read it without asking, and it just made her upset--mainly because she would only read a paragraph or two of my entry and throw it down in anger before reading the whole passage. It wasn't helping her or me. Still, I will periodically volunteer some of what I write in my journal, reading her parts, summarizing others, so she has an idea of where I'm at emotionally. She needs to know that I'm healing and making progress on the root of "why?" I suspect that she is worried that I'm using my journal as a place where I can pine for my AP, but that's not the case at all. I use my journal to explore questions about what's going on inside me, try to understand what's going on inside her, and to keep notes on what I should be doing or how I should change my way of thinking in order to heal. Often the questions I wrestle with in my journal are the basis of my posts on the Wayward forum.
I want to comment on a post where someone basically said what you did was "DISGUSTING". I 100% disagree. Sure, cheap sex with a crackhead prostitute is disgusting. But intimacy, sex, lovemaking, or whatever you choose to call it between two people who care about each other is the most beautiful human experience possible in this world. Even if the participants aren't married, even if they are married to other people.
Do most WS's actually believe this after they have gotten some distance and perspective (after they've defogged)? I know that many who are actively involved in an A rationalize their actions by calling them loving and caring, because that way they are minimizing the inherent selfishness and cruelty of their actions. But this comment sort of floored me. The poster says he has had NC for about 8 months though has had no DDay, so I assume his spouse never found out. But it got me wondering about whether this is a common perception among those who have had a DDay. Do you believe that the sex you had with your AP was a beautiful, positive, good experience?
I do have question for the male AP out there willing to answer.
When you were in your affair with a WW, did she ask you to meet her BH?
If so did you, and what was your thought process behind it?
Who knows what went on?
Good point about the journal TGNM. That was one of the first things I told my WW during discussions about openness - that if she wanted to ever keep a journal she could be 100% sure I would never try to read it. She doesn't keep one to the best of my knowledge. And on a couple of occations she has even mentioned she's "afraid to write a journal" because she thinks I would read it. This really bugs me now that I think about it... Why would she say that? Sound like a form of manipulation to me, a way of making me feel bad about the little controlling I do... :-(
Do most WS's actually believe this after they have gotten some distance and perspective (after they've defogged)?
The response I put in the Wayward forum to that fellow was the toned-down, trying not to get banned version. I think he has had to face no consequences for his actions and has no real understanding of the evil that comes from infidelity. That guy was in deep denial and I don't think that he was representative of Waywards who are truly remorseful and doing the work.
I suspect that thread is somewhat subdued after that cowardly comment because the thread was already flagged three times and the mods were on him.
I'm still pretty mad about his post. He attempted to invalidate the experience of every Betrayed Spouse ever with his unicorn fart, skittle eating self justifying BS and he did it after you were all locked out of the thread. Go on, ask me how I really feel.
But it got me wondering about whether this is a common perception among those who have had a DDay.
That guy was in deep denial and I don't think that he was representative of Waywards who are truly remorseful and doing the work.
"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras
There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
My question is: How does it make you feel coming home not knowing what kind of mood your BS may be in? My mood swings are crazy - and I'm assuming normal at only 2-mos from D-day - and I'm wondering how this is affecting my H.
I mentioned it to him and he said something really sweet and encouraging about how lucky he is to "get to" come home, regardless of what's waiting for him on the other side of the door. But he didn't say anything about how it makes him feel otherwise. I know I shouldn't care about the outcome, but some days I'm seriously concerned he won't want to keep coming home to this new version of his crazy-emotional wife. Any other insight from WS's?
To me this is horrifying and I can't even imagine being capable of doing it.
To be honest, some days I dread walking in the front door.
Then I compare my dread to my BS's pain. No contest.
Your WS sounds like he's got the right attitude. A remorseful WS should be grateful their arse isn't out the door and they have been given a chance to redeem themselves.
On the bad days, you suck it up. On the good days you rejoice
I feel lucky to come home to my BW each day. Each day with her is a gift, regardless of her mood. I destroyed her and our marriage. Each day is a chance to help us heal, for which I am truly grateful.
My BW is a saint. It's been 5 months since DDay, and though I have felt the anger in her words many times, she has really unleashed it at me only a handful of times that I can recall. I know I deserve all of it and more. Listening to her and supporting her through the emotional roller coaster is an important part of the healing process.
I said and did a lot of things for my AP as a form of maintenance. If I fed her ego kibbles, she would feed me.
She would get insanely jealous of time I would spend with my BW and family, especially date nights and getaways with my BW. I felt like I had to send appeasing messages to her to douse her flaming crazies. If I was sufficiently contrite, sending enough messages to her to "prove" that I was really with her instead of my BW, professing my loyalty to her and reminding her that I was only staying with my BW because of the money and the kids, her rage would simmer down.
AP was often a huge distraction from enjoying my family. A number of times I said to myself, "This isn't worth it." But... I never walked away. I kept doing it. Why? I was hooked on the ego kibbles.
The language of addiction I think applies well to what I was feeling. I was (and still am) a broken man, and like an addict, I chose to medicate my brokenness with something self-destructive. I'd get a brief high, thinking this was what I needed to feel better, utterly disconnected from the reality that I was actually making worse. Getting that ego kibble, that high, kept me coming back for more. All the maintenance I did was ensuring my supply of ego kibbles.
I felt like I had to send appeasing messages to her to douse her flaming crazies.