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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 9
SoLostStillNumb
♀ Member
Member # 44248
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EvolvingSoul - thank you so much for sharing your experience. Though I can't be sure, but what you described as how you relate to people as "source of feelings" is similar to the way my WH acts and has always acted. I wish there was a way for him to see this now instead of dragging me through limbo for 3 months.

Either way, it's nice to hear there might be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks for sharing.


Me: BS 26 Him: WH 27
Married: 5 years, together 7
No kids
DDays: 6/3/14, 6/24/14, 7/2/14, 7/3/14, 9/5/14
Separated, headed for divorce
Trying to accept this nightmare is real every morning.

Posts: 190 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Currently all over
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 11:27 PM, August 14th (Thursday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This forum has been very helpful and therapeutic for me, since I could not get anything but generic answers from my STBXWH. His PA (they had been texting back and forth before anything happened) started when he would leave at night to go check on night jobs for work and he went by her house before coming home. The first couple of nights, nothing happened but on the third night, she made her move. I asked him what the hell he was doing at her house late at night if he wasn't looking for an affair (because he swears he wasn't ). He said he just went by to talk. When I asked him what they talked about, he answered 'just talk'. He says they didn't talk about me and our marriage (yeah, right) and that she didn't like to talk about me. That they only talked about the kids' sports and activities and didn't really talk about anything serious. I'm sure he is lying, but I just wanted to get some perspective from those of you that have actually looked into yourselves to fix what was broken, because he obviously is not doing any serious work on himself. Thanks!!


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hopeful74
he obviously is not doing any serious work on himself.
Well I think this about sums it up. The kind of introspection that is required to actually stop the crappy thinking processes that fuel wayward behavior is...well it's a lot. And you can't make anyone do it. They have to at least commit to stepping on the path. They might be ignorant of what they will be facing when they get going on the journey, they might decide along the way that it's just too hard and they want to bail. But if they don't start, they will just keep using the same crappy thought processes and having more or less the same outcomes over and over, with a trail of hurting people left behind.

Your WH's insistence that he was there to just "talk about nothing" and that somehow as a married guy with three children that any scenario in which he finds himself at her house in the middle of the night talking about nothing is an okay one, well that's concerning. Whether she was the one that made the first move or not, he deliberately put himself in a situation where it was a possibility that that could happen. And he probably did that because he was chasing a feeling. The feeling of being attractive, that was my juice. Maybe it's his.

So, I did this kind of thing a lot. When my cyber/EA affair with AP went physical, it was during a time I planned for him to help me move some of my stuff cross country. I would have told anyone and everyone that there was no way anything was going to happen, that I had good boundaries, and that I was in control of the situation. I would never, ever have let anyone tell me that as a married person it was a risky situation for me and my marriage and hurtful to my BS that I was even putting myself in it. No way I was giving up my two days of just feeling incredibly attractive to this person I had developed a secretive online relationship with. Basically I always had some kind of mental plausible deniability (to myself) that what I was doing was not as bad as it seemed, that my situation was different. Over time my not-okay-o-meter, which was never all that well calibrated, got very out of whack.

It has taken a lot of time and effort to figure out that the problem really was me, and then knowing that figuring out how to fix it. The fixing is a very slow process, because it involves finding more broken stuff along the way, and integrating those into the overall brain remodeling plan as well.

It sounds like your WS might have not even begun to figure out that the problem is him, and that he may be employing that plausible deniability strategy for coping with difficult things. That doesn't mean that he won't ever figure it out, but it's a very real possibility. Without any evidence at all that he is willing to look inward and face some really uncomfortable stuff, probably moving on to healing on your own is a good strategy.

I am so sorry you have been put through this. I wish safety and healing for you and your family.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 12:37 AM, August 15th (Friday)]


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 304 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you EvolvingSoul, for taking the time to answer me. My H called me wanting to come home in March, and, while I told him he could not, I did say there were things he needed to do for me to consider it. He spent the next 3.5 months being transparent and answering my questions and telling me he was waiting for me. However, about a month and a half or two months ago, he slowly began changing. Being secretive about what he was doing on the weekends he didn't have the kids (because I was not sharing my activities with him), stopped answering questions, saying he didn't feel safe because I was still so angry and that we would discuss it when I was ready to go to MC. And then about 3 weeks ago, my son's baseball party was at one if the parents' house and he left 2 hours after everyone else, while he hung out with her and her kids and our son played with her's. Very familiar scenario to the beginning of his affair. And then came the phone. He did not feel he should have to show it to me, as my last few texts to him were not very encouraging. I am not stupid, regardless of what he likes to think. I know there is someone else and he thinks he can string me along until our divorce and then try to win me back and not lose more money. He was still telling me he was waiting for me and he loves me and I will see it soon. I know these are lies. I initiated NC and have held on to it going on a week now, and it is actually easier than I thought it would be. Still hard, but not as bad as I expected. I feel like he fooled me for 4 months and I don't understand what his angle was! He even started IC once we started communicating, but still could not answer my questions any deeper that 'I don't know'! I am hurt all over again because he gave me hope after he treated me so horribly during the affair, DDay and the 2 months following. I don't understand how I did not know the depths of his manipulations and selfishness in the 18 years we were together! I had no idea what a great liar he is. I am glad I found out before I took him back and got in even deeper. Unbelievable!


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 4:31 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am struggling at the moment with some of the things WH wrote to affair person. I was pregnant at the time of his affair and found out 8 days after the birth. Just before Christmas WH wrote to ow that he would leave me for her, she had asked for NC for a while and he was panicking. During no contact which included the birth of our son and the 8 days after his birth, WH wrote her an email a day (did not send them apparently) and in them promised her the world, said things like she should have been the mother of his first child.

WH was apparently totally disconnected from me when writing these things. He maintains that he continued to love me throughout the affair and writing those things was about saying something out there so she would want to continue feeding him the ego kibbles.

Can anyone help me to understand how that is possible, I get that it's most likely dissociation and compartmentalisation on WH's part... I guess I'm looking to see if others did this as well. To me this is horrifying and I can't even imagine being capable of doing it. Please, anything that might help would be appreciated!


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 308 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
RawDeal75
♂ Member
Member # 42495
Default  Posted: 7:10 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TGNM, theseseatsRtaken, something: thanks so much for sharing! I did al little bit of checking on the beginning bit I now have to remind myself to do it. And the few times I do I feel really bad doing it. Just can't shake that feeling, but your comments have made me a little more comfortable. I should not feel ashamed for doing it, it's normal and does not make me a bad, controlling person.

My WW made me feel really bad about this in the beginning and would say things like "if we are to remain together we need to do so on equal terms - why should different rules apply to us? Also i need to protect the integrity of the friends who help and support me through this". She even once told one of our closest friends, whom we have told about the A, that she better erase texts and emails on HER phone when she and WW were communicating about the A as she knew I was checking up on WW's phone/emails. The thing for me is that while I NEVER would have had any issues with my WW checking my email etc. in the past (which she did every now and then - likely because she was projecting her own unfaithfulness on me) I now suddenly have a stronger need of privacy. Not that I have anything at all to hide, but I'd rather she didn't read all my posts on this forum for example. Any other waywards out there willing to weigh in?


Me: BH, 39. Her: WW, 39. Two kids: 3&5
Together 21 yrs. Married 13 yrs.

D-day #2 Jan 18, 2014: 12 month EA/PA (AP#3)+ admission of 5 month EA/PA in 1994 (AP#1).
D-day #1 May 2001: 2 month EA/PA (AP#2)


Posts: 54 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Europe
Lostcat
♀ Member
Member # 43940
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WW here. My BH has become more secretive about his phone since we are in R. TBH it does worry me sometimes, but I don't feel that I can say anything. My phone and computer etc are all available to him whenever he wants.

I caught a glimpse of a text he'd sent to his IC the other day - I think he doesn't want to share this kind of thing with me at the moment and I have to accept it. For me it's part of what I have to do. Maybe later when we are working more on our M itself rather than just R (does that make sense?) it's something we'll talk about. For now there are plenty of other more pressing issues IMO.


Me WW 40
BH 38
2 kids 4 & 7
DDay 06/01/13, false R til 01/06/14
S til 03/23/14, now in hopeful R
So grateful for this chance

Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2014
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RD75,

Early on I thought I was entitled to 2-way transparency, but that was because I was just projecting my fears about a revenge A.

My BW is entitled to privacy because she needs some safe places where she can explore her pain, her feelings about me and what I've done, and what her evolving plans for the future might be. She has to be free and safe to explore all that. If I'm snooping into her stuff, it's just going to make her feel even less secure.

She did agree to allow me privacy of my journal where I can explore my feelings safely. Initially she did read it without asking, and it just made her upset--mainly because she would only read a paragraph or two of my entry and throw it down in anger before reading the whole passage. It wasn't helping her or me. Still, I will periodically volunteer some of what I write in my journal, reading her parts, summarizing others, so she has an idea of where I'm at emotionally. She needs to know that I'm healing and making progress on the root of "why?" I suspect that she is worried that I'm using my journal as a place where I can pine for my AP, but that's not the case at all. I use my journal to explore questions about what's going on inside me, try to understand what's going on inside her, and to keep notes on what I should be doing or how I should change my way of thinking in order to heal. Often the questions I wrestle with in my journal are the basis of my posts on the Wayward forum.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a quote from a response to the AP = "bad" person post in Wayward. I'd love (f)WS perspectives:

I want to comment on a post where someone basically said what you did was "DISGUSTING". I 100% disagree. Sure, cheap sex with a crackhead prostitute is disgusting. But intimacy, sex, lovemaking, or whatever you choose to call it between two people who care about each other is the most beautiful human experience possible in this world. Even if the participants aren't married, even if they are married to other people.

Do most WS's actually believe this after they have gotten some distance and perspective (after they've defogged)? I know that many who are actively involved in an A rationalize their actions by calling them loving and caring, because that way they are minimizing the inherent selfishness and cruelty of their actions. But this comment sort of floored me. The poster says he has had NC for about 8 months though has had no DDay, so I assume his spouse never found out. But it got me wondering about whether this is a common perception among those who have had a DDay. Do you believe that the sex you had with your AP was a beautiful, positive, good experience?


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 507 | Registered: Jan 2014
fst86411
♂ Member
Member # 41644
Default  Posted: 12:47 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

V12,
I saw that too and was blown away... just want to let you know that your not alone.

I do have question for the male AP out there willing to answer.

When you were in your affair with a WW, did she ask you to meet her BH?

If so did you, and what was your thought process behind it?


Met 1997
Married 2002
D-Day July 8, 2012

Who knows what went on?


Posts: 63 | Registered: Dec 2013
RawDeal75
♂ Member
Member # 42495
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Lostcat, I get what you are saying about R and M, and I think I agree. But in the short term, during R I don't see full transparency being a two-way street, at least not for me, at least not right now.

Good point about the journal TGNM. That was one of the first things I told my WW during discussions about openness - that if she wanted to ever keep a journal she could be 100% sure I would never try to read it. She doesn't keep one to the best of my knowledge. And on a couple of occations she has even mentioned she's "afraid to write a journal" because she thinks I would read it. This really bugs me now that I think about it... Why would she say that? Sound like a form of manipulation to me, a way of making me feel bad about the little controlling I do... :-(


Me: BH, 39. Her: WW, 39. Two kids: 3&5
Together 21 yrs. Married 13 yrs.

D-day #2 Jan 18, 2014: 12 month EA/PA (AP#3)+ admission of 5 month EA/PA in 1994 (AP#1).
D-day #1 May 2001: 2 month EA/PA (AP#2)


Posts: 54 | Registered: Feb 2014 | From: Europe
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

veronique12
Do most WS's actually believe this after they have gotten some distance and perspective (after they've defogged)?

No. And I had a LTA with someone I'd known for 20 years. I cared about him. Occasionally I might have called it semi-intimate. But post fog saying it was the most beautiful human experience is beyond outrageous.

Posts: 216 | Registered: Mar 2014
NoGoodUsername
♂ Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

veronique,

The response I put in the Wayward forum to that fellow was the toned-down, trying not to get banned version. I think he has had to face no consequences for his actions and has no real understanding of the evil that comes from infidelity. That guy was in deep denial and I don't think that he was representative of Waywards who are truly remorseful and doing the work.

I suspect that thread is somewhat subdued after that cowardly comment because the thread was already flagged three times and the mods were on him.
I'm still pretty mad about his post. He attempted to invalidate the experience of every Betrayed Spouse ever with his unicorn fart, skittle eating self justifying BS and he did it after you were all locked out of the thread. Go on, ask me how I really feel.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 244 | Registered: Aug 2013
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 8:27 PM, August 15th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But it got me wondering about whether this is a common perception among those who have had a DDay.
HELL NO!!!!!!!!.

That guy was in deep denial and I don't think that he was representative of Waywards who are truly remorseful and doing the work.
I almost feel sorry for him, what must the rest of his life look like if he can maintain that level of delusion for so long.


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
lilylilith
♀ Member
Member # 44240
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all of the WS who post on this thread. It makes my heart swell to see so much compassion on this forum.

My question is: How does it make you feel coming home not knowing what kind of mood your BS may be in? My mood swings are crazy - and I'm assuming normal at only 2-mos from D-day - and I'm wondering how this is affecting my H.

I mentioned it to him and he said something really sweet and encouraging about how lucky he is to "get to" come home, regardless of what's waiting for him on the other side of the door. But he didn't say anything about how it makes him feel otherwise. I know I shouldn't care about the outcome, but some days I'm seriously concerned he won't want to keep coming home to this new version of his crazy-emotional wife. Any other insight from WS's?


Me: BW
D-Day: 6/23/14

Posts: 90 | Registered: Jul 2014
RomanticInnocenc
♀ Member
Member # 43041
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, August 17th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any waywards at all have some insight into my above question? I'd really appreciate it!


Me: BS 31
WH: 29 (theseseatsRtaken)
DS: 6 months old
Together 10 years, married 2.
DD1: 8th of Jan 2014
DD2: 10th of Jan 2014
NC: 8th of Jan
In hopeful R!

Posts: 308 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Australia
SlowUptake
♂ Member
Member # 40484
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@RomanticInnocenc

To me this is horrifying and I can't even imagine being capable of doing it.
Don't know how much help this is, since my form of cheating didn't involve 'declarations of luuuurve'.
Here's the thing, you as a sane, healthly person can't fathom these seriously screwed up actions.
To understand the actions you would have to be as unhealthy as a wayward. I look back at the things I did and cannot believe I was capable of doing them, they just don't make sense, although at the time they did.
It drives me bonkers, I can only imagine how bonkers it drives a BS.

@lilylilith

To be honest, some days I dread walking in the front door.
Then I compare my dread to my BS's pain. No contest.
Your WS sounds like he's got the right attitude. A remorseful WS should be grateful their arse isn't out the door and they have been given a chance to redeem themselves.
On the bad days, you suck it up. On the good days you rejoice


Me:WS,50+
Her:BS,50+ (WantToWakeUp)
Married 33yrs
Dday Dec 2009

"Do not say a little in many words but a great deal in a few." Pythagoras

There are two kinds of people in the world.
Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.


Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Limbo in Oz
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lilylilith,

I feel lucky to come home to my BW each day. Each day with her is a gift, regardless of her mood. I destroyed her and our marriage. Each day is a chance to help us heal, for which I am truly grateful.

My BW is a saint. It's been 5 months since DDay, and though I have felt the anger in her words many times, she has really unleashed it at me only a handful of times that I can recall. I know I deserve all of it and more. Listening to her and supporting her through the emotional roller coaster is an important part of the healing process.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RomanticInnocenc,

I said and did a lot of things for my AP as a form of maintenance. If I fed her ego kibbles, she would feed me.

She would get insanely jealous of time I would spend with my BW and family, especially date nights and getaways with my BW. I felt like I had to send appeasing messages to her to douse her flaming crazies. If I was sufficiently contrite, sending enough messages to her to "prove" that I was really with her instead of my BW, professing my loyalty to her and reminding her that I was only staying with my BW because of the money and the kids, her rage would simmer down.

AP was often a huge distraction from enjoying my family. A number of times I said to myself, "This isn't worth it." But... I never walked away. I kept doing it. Why? I was hooked on the ego kibbles.

The language of addiction I think applies well to what I was feeling. I was (and still am) a broken man, and like an addict, I chose to medicate my brokenness with something self-destructive. I'd get a brief high, thinking this was what I needed to feel better, utterly disconnected from the reality that I was actually making worse. Getting that ego kibble, that high, kept me coming back for more. All the maintenance I did was ensuring my supply of ego kibbles.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RomanticInnocenc
I would give you the same response that ThatGuyNoMore gave. Especially
I felt like I had to send appeasing messages to her to douse her flaming crazies.

My AP and I took turns being the crazy needy one. As time goes by, you have to way over compensate to get back to your happy place. For example my AP did not have children and if mine came up (I tried very hard not to have that happen) it would tail spin him into talking about what *our* pretend children would be like. I would participate in these talks, even coming up with pretend names for the pretend kids. It was absolute lunacy, but by doing that we detracted from the original subject (my REAL children and our family life). It's hard to imagine, but the goal was never to actually plan to have children together or berate our current spouse or children, it was simply to distract ourselves from our real lives.

Posts: 216 | Registered: Mar 2014
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