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I Can Relate Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 9
veronique12
♀ Member
Member # 42185
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was really happy to see your response in wayward, NoGoodUsername. At first I thought wow, what a fogged out (to put it gently) WS, but then I guess I was wondering what if other fWS's secretly feel that way. I guess he hit a nerve b/c my fear is that my H still secretly feels something good for his ex-AP, although he says he feels nothing but disgust. I figured others wouldn't have to hide their true feelings so I thought I'd ask.

Thanks familyfirst and slowuptake for your perspectives too!


BW: me (38)
WH: 43
OW: false "friend"
D-Day: 11/29/13 (4 month EA discovered); 12/19/13 (discovered was also PA); TT thru 2/14
Married: 2001; Together for nearly 20 years
2 beautiful young kids

Posts: 541 | Registered: Jan 2014
NoGoodUsername
♂ Member
Member # 40181
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, August 18th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lilylilith asked:

How does it make you feel coming home not knowing what kind of mood your BS may be in?

It makes me feel very insecure and scared. I suspect a little like what I made my wife feel like by having an affair.

I can relate to what your husband said about still getting to come home to one's wife. Still, it's very frightening not knowing what one day to the next will bring. Keeping it firmly in mind that I caused the problems helped a lot when we went through this. It did scare the hell out of me, though.


Me: WH
Her: BW
Dday 7/11/13
"May you be protected from hearts that are not humble, tongues that are not wise and eyes that have forgotten how to cry."

Posts: 252 | Registered: Aug 2013
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 12:15 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have posted a lot on this sight so you may know a little bit of my story. I'm sure it is not unique in any way, except that it is MY story. We are all in pain and tryin to survive this shit storm. My STBXH called me in March after being with whoreface for 2 months. I had filed for divorce the week after DDay, as 'he had made his choice' (words his mother told my mother). He was crying and promising me anything if he could come home. I did not let him come home, but told him if he worked on some things, it might be a possibility. We started talking every day and even participated in a little bit of hysterical bonding (I know, not my smartest move). I tied myself up in knots, reading everything I could about positive stories of reconciliation and even sent him articles I found. I wanted to have a happy ending. But, I was still not sure how I could respect myself and stay with this man who, not only cheated, but did not fight for me. Here he was, promising me transparency and the dream of a stronger marriage. He told me he only wanted me, I was his soul mate and he would wait for me to be ready. He did not like my timetable (a year), but eventually agreed to it. He answered my questions as best he could (he had a lot of trouble 'remembering' things) and started IC.
Fast forward to the middle of July, the transparency stopped, and the secrets started. We went to a pool party for my son's baseball team. It was thrown at the house of one if the parents (female). I took DD3 home and DS9 stayed with asshat, who would bring him home. He stayed at the woman's house for 2 hours after I left. Everyone else had also left. It was just my son, her and her kids and asshat. Very familiar scene. I was not happy and told him so. Those kinds of 'play dates' were not ok with me. He defended his actions. In the meantime he had stopped answering all questions, telling me we would discuss it when I was ready for MC. I was getting angrier and not healing. The longer it went, the less secure he made me feel. The final straw came when I asked to see his phone one night. He refused, siting my last few angry texts as the reason for refusing. I am not stupid. Slow maybe, but now stupid!! I know by now there is someone else. He denies it repeatedly and calls me to tell me he loves me and wants to make it work and would take all of my pain and put it on himself if he could, and still wants to do MC. And expects me to believe all of this. In the meantime, he had used my words against me saying, 'I thought you were going to do you and I was going to do me and then see what happens'. Well, doing me meant working on me and I guess doing him meant doing whoever he can until I make up my mind! The same day he called me to 'reassure' me if his love, he came over to drop off my money and treated me so coldly. It was so familiar to DDay. And he was still denying someone else. But I know there is. He's not fooling me and I'm not looking for reassurance. He's lying, I know he is lying, and he knows I know he is lying. AND HE IS STILL LYING!!!! WTF?!?! I have invoked NC and he has been more than happy to oblige. I only text him about kids and financials and he doesn't even text me back. He does not call the kids between visits to check on them. So suddenly, we are once again out of sight, out of mind. It is like Affair, part 2. I'm not sure what I am looking for here. I have decided D is the only way to go. He is not strong enough for me. I guess I am just looking for feedback. WTF was his motivation for telling me he still wants to make it work, just to do a 180 hours later?! And should I be prepared in case he tries to come back and tries to pull the R card again? I feel I will be stronger if he does, but I want to be ready. Or is he tired of 'playing the game' and I can move forward without worrying he is going to try to swoop in again? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks!


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi there RomanticInnocenc,

My experience does not exactly parallel that of your WS, but my perspective might still be of use to you. I was one that, on D-day, sincerely believed that I loved two men. That AP was a good person. That we were just people who fell in love at the wrong time and place. Star-crossed, soulmates, you get the idea. I seriously believed that I would be forever devastated if I had to say goodbye to AP or my BS. I refused to make an immediate choice, stayed on the fence for six months and took another couple months to craft and send a NC letter that BS and I could both agree on.

The things I thought then are cringe-inducing to me now. I never broke NC physically but I did not, in the early days, see anything wrong with writing to AP in my journal. I was being honest with my BS that I was ambivalent. I did not understand at the time that there is a difference between being honest and acting with integrity. I did not understand the nature of infidelity and how lying to everyone, including myself, had really changed my brain. So I was able to write things like "I am so afraid to want to want to stop loving you." and "I don't know how I can handle never seeing you again." and (cringing now) "we will meet again across time and space". Those aren't exact quotes but sum up the kinds of things I was writing and actually believing at the time I wrote them.

I guess I am telling you this to let you know that even though I meant those things at the time that I wrote them, I can see now that I had a very limited ability for evaluating the basis of my feelings and deciding if they were reasonable or valid. I conflated the intensity of my feelings and their validity. I really was terrified of losing one of my sources of good feelings. But it did not have anything to do with genuine, adult love for AP.

Now. Did I love my BS during the time I was writing those things? Did I love my BS at all during the time I was imposing a blatant EA on our lives (4 years) and then a hidden PA (3.5 years)? You know, as I have come to understand what it actually means to love someone in an adult way, no. I did not. I loved him the way a child loves. I saw him as a source of stability and security and a way to help get my basic emotional and physical needs met. I felt genuine affection for him but ultimately, when it came down to it, I was willing to get my needs met at his very great expense. As a child, it is normal to expect that from the people who love us. That is the natural order of things. As an adult, we have to be willing for things to go in the other direction. That is the piece I lacked, and have had to develop.

So could your husband have really loved you during the time he wrote those things? I guess it depends on what your definition of love is. It is absolutely possible that he was trying to keep everything from blowing up. It's also possible he meant those things at the time he said them. I think the really important thing is whether he is willing to 1) be honest about what he was actually thinking and feeling during that time, even if it risks his chance of reconciliation to do so and 2) identify and fix the thought processes that resulted in his integrity train jumping the track so that he doesn't ever do this again to you or to anyone else.

I am so sorry that you have been put through this. May you find peace and healing.


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 308 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello again Hopeful74,
WTF was his motivation for telling me he still wants to make it work, just to do a 180 hours later?! And should I be prepared in case he tries to come back and tries to pull the R card again? I feel I will be stronger if he does, but I want to be ready. Or is he tired of 'playing the game' and I can move forward without worrying he is going to try to swoop in again?
I don't think anyone can tell you what his specific motivation was. He is obviously having difficulty making good decisions and is not acting with integrity. Since you are divorcing it might be a good idea for you to start detaching rather than trying to figure him out. By all means you should have a plan in place should he come back for another round, and it should be based on what you think is best for you and your family. Whether or not he will make another run at you is anyone's guess.


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 308 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
EvolvingSoul
♀ Member
Member # 29972
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello there lilylilith
How does it make you feel coming home not knowing what kind of mood your BS may be in?
This is something that was a part of getting used to the new normal. In my case, it is not knowing what kind of state of mind BS is going to be in when he gets home from work. He works overnights, so he's getting home usually about the time I am waking up. Sometimes I try to peek out the kitchen window and get a read on his posture and facial expression before he gets to the door.

As someone who formerly viewed relationships as sources of feelings more than anything else, it was at first very hard for me to adjust to the variability of the outward signs of his injury. Some days just terribly sad and sobbing. Some days angry and spitting fire. Some days just flat.

IC helped me a lot because I have learned to view people as people instead of just sources of feelings for me. I can separate the feelings from the person if that makes any sense. The other thing that has helped has been to learn some techniques for dealing with difficult feelings in the moment they are happening. Meditation type stuff.

You are kind to be thinking of the stress your WS might be experiencing because of your mood swings. In my experience even just acknowledging it might help mitigate some of the damage and help your WS be more patient with them. I know the times my BS has said to me that he knows he's all over the place and thanked me for handling it without melting down, I have very much appreciated it. I guess because it acknowledges that as sucky as I was, my need for a secure emotional environment is legitimate too. That doesn't mean he is going to be meeting it at his own expense, or rather I would prefer that he doesn't. But it does help to have it acknowledged as a legitimate need.

May you find peace and healing.


Me: WS (52)
Him: Shards (47)
D-day: June 6, 2010
Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010
NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

Digging our way through.


Posts: 308 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: Turning the corner.
Hopeful74
♀ Member
Member # 44003
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you EvolvingSoul! I appreciate your feedback. And wonderful advice. I do need to detach and focus more on myself, and I know this. I am still looking for some kind of answers that he, much less anyone else, is unable to give me.


Me: BW 39 Him:WH 37 (M)12 years; (T)18 years -2 DD: 16; 3; 1 DS: 9
Separated, headed for Divorce-he's not strong enough for me
'Everytime you get up and get back in the race, one more small piece of you starts to fall into place.' -

Posts: 302 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Hampton, VA
Tigaress
♀ Member
Member # 43954
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all - I'm a betrayed wife and people keep telling me that my big mistake was that I never set boundaries. For example, I never questioned it when my husband told me he had to 'work late' even if that meant he didn't even make it to the one family dinner per week. Many times I heard from other guys 'my wife would never allow that' and every time I was stunned. I'm really struggling to come up with a plan how 'boundary setting' could look like in case my husband and I are deciding to try reconciliation and I'd really appreciate if some of you could tell me what kind of boundaries worked out for you? The more concrete and hands on the better. Also, what consequences would follow boundary violations? Thank you!

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: New York
kansas1968
♀ Member
Member # 32214
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, August 19th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I reading hundreds of posts as well as dealing with my own situation I have a question for the waywards. If you are or think you are in love with your affair partner, how do you still make love to your wife or husband. Do you just do it so that it doesn't seem suspicious? Do you ever think about giving your spouse an STD?


Me - BS
Him - FWS
DD - December 14, 2010
Married 43 years 1/14/2011
Affair lasted 7+ years
Affair had been over for 2 years before I found out. OW sent me a letter.

Posts: 1319 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Kansas
lilylilith
♀ Member
Member # 44240
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you SlowUptake, ThatGuyNoMore, NoGoodUsername, and EvolvingSoul - I really appreciate the insight.

I understand that is now part of our new normal, and we're both grasping with that. No running to the door with kisses and affection when he returns home - at least for the time being. I feel like I can only begin to forgive him if I can humanize him, feel empathy, recognize his hurt and pain through all of this too. But he has read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal..." and I think he's afraid to show me too much so as not to take the healing process away from me. If that makes any sense. Again, thank you for your kind words and sharing your experiences.


Me: BW
D-Day: 6/23/14

Posts: 91 | Registered: Jul 2014
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lilylilith,

When I come home from work, I offer my BW a kiss regardless of what her outward mood might be. I do not assume that because she has a mad face that she doesn't want me. I made her an angry mess, so it's unfair for me to dodge her when she is angry. By offering, I've given her the opportunity to say "Yes" rather than assume she will say "No." This is important because it shouldn't be up to my BW to initiate physical affection. I should be the one reaching out and taking the risk of rejection. By that one simple act of offering her a kiss, it shows that I love her and want her regardless of her mood, and it just might help change her mood.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kansas1968,

I continued to make love with my BW during my affair, but it was very infrequent. I wasn't putting in the effort to make my BW want me. After a while, I just stopped initiating sex with my BW because I was tired of the rejection. Of course she rejected me because I didn't do the work. Duh!

About STD's... sometimes I really worried about that to the point of depression. I got tested a couple of times over the years, but not as frequently as I should have. And I didn't consistently practic safe sex. I look back on that now, I'm just sick thinking about how I risked my BW's life and health. I was fortunate that I never brought home an STD, but that was dumb luck. Big emphasis on dumb.

[This message edited by ThatGuyNoMore at 11:13 AM, August 22nd (Friday)]


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tigaress,

Boundaries and accountability are important methods for your WS to re-establish trust.

Some basic boundaries that I observe:
1. NC with AP.
2. No "unhealthy" friendships, like those with guys that encourage A's, or with women who have known boundary issues as well, or with women I feel I may develop a boundary issue with.
3. Avoid one-on-one situations with women. That includes private messages, emails, and texts.
4. No flirtatious comments directed at anyone but my BW.
5. No lying, no half-truths, no omissions.
6. Also being accountable for my time is a form of boundary setting. I send selfies showing I am where I'm supposed to be if I'm running errands, attending civic meetings, or going to the gym. I call home from a land line before I leave work. If for some reason I'm going to be late, I call and send a selfie to prove my whereabouts.

I'll do anything I can to help my BW feel safe.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
somethingremorse
♂ Member
Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tigaress --

Don't beat yourself up over not seeing the signs. You believed that your WS was a good and honest person, and never had any inkling he would stray.

I feel awful when I remember the lies that I told my BW, and how much she trusted me to believe them. I know that she feels shaken looking back, too. It's just a measure of how far from that wayward thinking you were. That is a good thing.

I don't know if we officially set boundaries. I tried to do what BW asked, and only do things that make her feel safe. ThatGuyNoMore got them right. NC is non-negotiable. Being transparent, and always accounting for time and location are too. No flirting or personal contact with women, no spending nights out with guys unless they are truly friends of the marriage.

I wanted to add that for most of us truly remorseful waywards, these are not punishment. My boundaries are ones that I have mostly set myself. I don't want to do any of those old things. I know that they have this possibility down the road to lead to a point where I could put myself in a position to go to the place I was during my A. Even if don't stray, I know that I used to be really unhappy during my A's. I don't want to do anything that could lead me to becoming that unhappy again. It's kind f like knowing a food will make you sick. Sure, one taste may not make you full on sick, but why tempt yourself?


Me: WH (42)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 620 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
Tigaress
♀ Member
Member # 43954
Default  Posted: 1:20 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you ThatGuyNoMore and somethingremorse! I think I have an understanding now what kind of boundaries are necessary to start re-building trust. And even more important I see that my husband needs to develop his list of boundaries himself and take responsibility for it. So many times have I stepped in and done things for him, I won't make this mistake with the boundaries after his affair. He wants a second chance and I'm not at all sure if I can get over it but I'm willing to try. Thank you :-)

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: New York
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If you are or think you are in love with your affair partner, how do you still make love to your wife or husband. Do you just do it so that it doesn't seem suspicious? Do you ever think about giving your spouse an STD?

I just made love to my spouse so it didn't seem suspicious. I decreased the frequency as much as I could and I wasn't as "into it" as I used to be, but at the time there were no suspicions that it was due to an A. It did cause problems, but not raise suspicions. I just did it - sometimes I wanted to and enjoyed it, sometimes I just faked it, whatever it took. I know that sounds harsh but it's true.

As for the STD question, my AP was certain he had none and I believed him. I didn't worry about bringing home and STD because of this. Looking back he could have been lying through his teeth but at the time I didn't even consider that possibility. I did get tested at my next pap after the A and was clean so I lucked out.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you believe that the sex you had with your AP was a beautiful, positive, good experience?

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm still in the "fog" a little bit so that might be why. I don't think it was beautiful or positive. The sex was very good and we connected on an intimate level, as much as I don't want to admit it, yet I feel it was a dirty, shameful act so that pretty much takes away from all the "good" I could see from it.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How does it make you feel coming home not knowing what kind of mood your BS may be in?

To be honest I will admit that I am not yet a truly remorseful WW though I'm trying my hardest to be. Because of that, my honest answer is it's terrible. I hate going home because I don't know what kind of mood I'm going to get. As it gets closer to the end of the work day I actually get anxiety about going home because of it. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me - I know the RIGHT answer is what your husband said and I bet most remorseful waywards really do feel that way so I don't doubt what you were told, just for me - someone who isn't yet really remorseful, it's not a good feeling.


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
familyfirst
♀ Member
Member # 42651
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kansas1968
If you are or think you are in love with your affair partner, how do you still make love to your wife or husband. Do you just do it so that it doesn't seem suspicious? Do you ever think about giving your spouse an STD?

I thought I loved AP, I was still making love with my H. I can't make a blanket statement that I was only with my H to quell suspicion but that did occur from time to time. Every every week or night had a new set of variables. Sometimes I was feeling close to my H, even wanting to be overly generous in bed perhaps out of guilt. For quite a while my sex drive was on high and I was very happy to be with both men. How I felt varied greatly throughout the A. Sorry, I guess that's not much help.

About STDs..., I worried a lot about getting pregnant, but never about STDs. AP assured me he had never strayed before and I had blinding faith in whatever he said. I went in for my annual OB exam and my dr asked me if I had any new partners. If this is a common question to married people I'll never know. I told her the truth and she insisted I get tested for everything. I told her it was unnecessary because I knew my AP was safe. She then told me even if that was true, I didn't know if his spouse was safe or who she might have been/is currently with. I remember being completely confused. She almost had to draw it out on paper like you would for a 7th grader. I don't know if it's because I was so far removed from dating and sleeping with other people or so completely detached from reality that this really never occurred to me. Suddenly I was overwhelmed with guilt. Never in a million years did I think I could harm my H in this way. Thankfully all tests were negative. In all the ways I harmed H, in my mind this is the worst and most unforgiveable. I've read on SI before that "the WS cared more about their pleasure than the BS's health". For me that's not true, I just didn't think. period.


Posts: 223 | Registered: Mar 2014
StartingFreshNow
♀ Member
Member # 44224
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, August 20th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For quite a while my sex drive was on high and I was very happy to be with both men.


This was very true for me as well at some points of my A.


ETA: my OB/GYN always asks if I've had any new sexual partners at each visit so it's normal for at least some docs.

[This message edited by StartingFreshNow at 2:53 PM, August 20th (Wednesday)]


Me: WW
2 young kids
DDay - Dec 2013 (EA), TT
DDay 2 - Jul 28, 2014 (PA), TT
DDay 3 - end of Aug/beg of Sep 2014
(All the same A)

Posts: 316 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: USA
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