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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 9
authenticnow
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Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, July 4th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PP, I remember feeling crappy thinking about going over there, going anyway, being in that totally separate world that I was able to compartmentalize, feel like shit, and go back the next time anyway. Not to escape the feeling low, but more to chase the high...hope I explained that well.

I never thought less of my BH for staying. I was very humbled by his strength and willingness to forgive and work through this with me.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 38696 | Registered: Sep 2007
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, July 4th (Friday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yaka

what is the best way to begin a conversation with the WS without raising their defenses to DEFCON 5?

Good question. If you're willing to do this, I think you make it clear upfront that you won't react angrily, that you won't run screaming for the hills, but if she wants the M to work, you are needing some direct, specific answers to certain questions. Often we get defensive or lie or TT out of fear. Even though I don't feel you're obligated to remove that fear, that she should be forthcoming with whatever information you need...that's my answer to your question. I'm sorry she's reacting that way. It's a clear indicator that she's unremorseful.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1252 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
BrokenButTrying
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Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:52 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Plainpain

What is that about? Is this something APs tell the WS to leverage them so they keep coming around, is this paranoia, or is this something WS tell their BS to try to say, "Yes, we had sex a whole bunch of times, but I really didn't want to".

The AP in my situation turned bunny boiler.

The PA bit of my A lasted for three weeks, then I broke it off. Once I made it clear I didn't want to continue and had no thoughts of leaving my husband, the AP became very upset. He was physically violent towards me on one occasion, threatened violence a lot and also threatened suicide several times if I didn't leave my family for him.

It isn't something I told my husband to blameshift, I had evidence of all of this in the way of text messages. AP threatened the safety of my children and it was thF point I confessed and called the police.

AP's are very broken people. Damaged and unhealthy, in my case he couldn't handle the end of the A because he didn't possess the coping mechanisms.

I was very scared of him, I had severe anxiety about him waiting outside my house, breaking in and harming me. My anxiety is lessening now but I still have nightmares and wake up in cold sweats.

I guess my point is, in some cases it will be blameshifting but in other cases the AP really is a bunny boiler.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - Jan 2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 3:59 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I recognize that it is difficult, of not undesirable, for the WS to discuss the specifics of their affair with their BS. That said, what is the best way to begin a conversation with the WS without raising their defenses to DEFCON 5?
Also, how much is "too much"?

Personally I'm happy to talk at any time. I want my husband to heal and if I can do anything at all to help with that, I will. 2 o'clock in the morning? I'll talk. Out shopping in town? I'll talk.
I got over the defensive crap very quickly.

However, everyone is different and some WS' find it much easier to have a scheduled time to talk about the A. Maybe once a day or a few times a week, they know the TV and phones get turned off and a discussion takes place. Time it too, an hour?
Reassurance that you won't get angry while they are giving information will help, and you must try not to vent at these times. You can schedule a time to vent and they know they must listen and support you.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - Jan 2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 4:07 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Painfulpast

First, I always imagine this circle: You have an interaction with AP, you get the 'high' of the excitement, etc. A few minutes later, the reality sinks in and you feel low for doing such a thing. You return to AP to feel better from feeling so low for interacting with AP. Is there any truth to this?

Oh absolutely! This is exactly how it was for me. The first time the AP and I had sex I sobbed myself to sleep. When he text me the next morning he was shovelling ego kibbles like no one's business and it alleviated my bad feeling. So the cycle repeated.

Second, did you ever, and please, be honest, before full remorse set in, feel like your BS was a fool/doormat/idiot for staying with you. Did you ever look down on them for accepting such a betrayal and not just getting up and walking out?

My husband has not accepted my betrayal, we are not in official R just yet. It has never occurred to me that staying is weak. I know how much strength and courage R takes, I do not underestimate what I am asking of him. My husband is making a huge effort just to get to the point where he feels R might be possible, there is nothing weak about that.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 4:08 AM, July 5th (Saturday)]


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - Jan 2010 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1267 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
painfulpast
♀ Member
Member # 41038
Default  Posted: 4:15 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nogoodusername

As an aside, I'm sorry things are going badly for you. Please accept my sympathy.

Thank you, and accepted. Things will get better for me. They always do. But I really appreciate the support.


The stones from my enemies, these wounds will mend
but I cannot survive the roses from my friends

Posts: 1898 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: East Coast
MissWhoKnew
♀ New Member
Member # 43580
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you to all the WS that replied to my question and the other BS.

I still am struggling with the fact that a couple of you WS loved your BS and it never entered your mind to leave them. What was the purpose of the affair and did you really think no one would ever find out?


Me:BW 51, Him:WH 56
DS 26, DD 24; Dday: 4/19/14
Married: 29 years
Reconcile: A work in progress...
Dday: 4/2014 TT for over a year.
------------------------------------
You're not alone in how you've been, everybody loses we all got bruises

Posts: 36 | Registered: May 2014 | From: Land of Oz
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 11:35 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I always loved BH and it never entered my mind to leave.

The *stated* purpose at the time was to prove to iryself, at age 41, that I still "had it," that I was appealing or sexy or whatever. No I never thought I'd get caught, even though I wasn't that careful.

IMO it's the extreme minority of WS on SI who'd say they didn't love their BS, and were intending to D. Affairs are the epitome of irrational behavior.


fWW: 42
BH: 52
DDay: April 21, 2013
Sweet DS & fierce DD, under 10
"Between stimulus and response there’s a space, in that space lies our power to choose our response, in our response lies our growth and our freedom." V. Frankl

Posts: 1252 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My answer is pretty much the same as 20Wrongs. Add to it that I had always been the 'good girl'. Always followed the rules, did what was expected...this felt exciting and different. I was scared and disgusted with myself, but I was drawn to it. And I never did think I'd get caught, even though I was careless, especially as I got deeper into it.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 38696 | Registered: Sep 2007
somethingremorse
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Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What was the purpose of the affair and did you really think no one would ever find out?

I am embarrassed to talk about wayward thinking. Questions like this one, or "Didn't you know you would hurt me?" are very painful.

For me, I put lots of energy into making sure I wouldn't get caught. But I still knew how risky it was. Like all the other lies, guilt, etc. that I was feeling, it became easy to push aside any thoughts of what would happen if I was found out.

The reason I started in an A was because I was able to separate out any thoughts of right and wrong, any consequences of my actions. To put it another way, if I wasn't able to compartmentalize parts of my life so fully, I do not think I would have been able to start an A. The A sort of existed alone. It had its own space in my head. And as the A went on, I had to separate it more and more just to get by.

Also, I am one of those people who "tried" to end the As. But I never figured out the problems with myself first. So I'd just fall back into that wayward behavior. It wasn't that I couldn't walk away. It is that I was still the same person who went down that road in the first place. I knew the right thing to do, but I never dealt with my practice of withdrawing from things and compartmentalizing. That person didn't get it.


Me: WH (40s)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
StillStanding1
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Member # 40144
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

somethingremorse, that was a very insightful explanation. Thanks for your honesty.

How would you feel during R, if things were going well, but you discovered your BS "snooping"?

Things with my WH have been going very well, but it obviously takes a LONG time to heal and a LONG time to redevelop trust. I am trying and he is trying. He is loving and kind, thoughtful, tells me where he is and who he is with. He is working hard to repair relationships with our kids. He hardly drinks at all and is rekindling his faith and meeting with friends who are supportive of his changes. All good, right? Yet, I had a nightmare that he had a burner phone and a few nights later, I offered to move his car into the driveway and he got out of bed to move it himself. I panicked that he actually did have a burner phone hidden in his car. Fast forward to Sunday, I was the only one home and decided to search his car. I didn't find anything. Murphy's Law dictates that he arrived home with our son mid-search.

I couldn't lie, so I told him what I was searching for and why. He thanked me for being honest and said "well, I understand" and "that makes sense". He hugged me. He didn't say much else.

How would it make you feel, if you were trying hard in R? Like nothing you do will ever be good enough?


Me: 40s BS, Him: 40s WH
M 21 yrs - 3 teens
LTA = 2+ yrs, Dday = 2/10/13, he moved out, he officially moved back in 1/25/14 and our work continues...

Posts: 741 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: MidWest
plainpain
♀ Member
Member # 40139
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH did the whole "new wardrobe, new cologne, etc" thing in his MLC A. I believed he was vulnerable to an A, and so I kicked up the attention I gave him... which fed the entitlement thing he had going on at the time. My question is, when a BS notices the image changes, is that a sign that the WS is actively making themselves available for an A, or is that a sign that they are already in an A?


Me: Believer; 40s
Him: Liar; 40s
Married 19 years
1 year EA/2 month PA/incidental infidelities I can't begin to process
OC born 2014
OW:21
In successful R, but still in just plain pain.

Posts: 809 | Registered: Jul 2013
ThatGuyNoMore
♂ Member
Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SS1, There's no way my BW can know that I'm behaving unless she watches me 24/7, which of course isn't possible. I don't mind it at all that my BW searches through my stuff because I look at it as an opportunity to prove that I'm doing the right things now. I no longer have anything to hide, and I'm eager to prove that in any way that I can. I just want her to feel safe again.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
ThatGuyNoMore
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Member # 42899
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MWK, I'll second what somethingremorse said. I didn't want to think about the consequences of getting caught. It was just to awful to contemplate. So I put those feelings in a box.

What was I getting out of it? I was (and still am) a very broken person. Through IC, I've come to realize the A was a different way of acting out on my FOO issues. It could easily have been something else self-destructive like alcoholism or drug abuse. Indeed, I find the language of addiction a handy way to describe what the A did for me.


Me and BW 48
Married 22 years, 4 kids
D-Day 3/5/14
I lied to everyone, including myself.

Posts: 247 | Registered: Mar 2014 | From: US
WearingTheHorns
♂ Member
Member # 37916
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know this question may be hard to answer since it pertains to my WW specifically, but hoped someone familiar with how the wayward mind works would be able to provide insight. After dday she told me whilst in her A's she couldn't bring herself to tell me about it because she didn't want to hurt me. That she knew she'd sinned horribly and was willing to spend eternity in hell rather than hurt me. Ok, on one hand I understand using a bit of hyperbole to make her point in trying to explain how she was trying to "protect" me from being hurt. However, more recently when we were talking she said the same thing again. This time it struck me as a bit "martyr-ish". She plays the martyr card occasionally and this time when she said how she was willing to suffer it really felt to me more "See what a wonderful person I am? I kept on cheating on you to keep you safe." Have any other WS's gone down this road of thinking, and was it what you really believed? Or was it just a way of assuaging your guilt?


Dday: over a period of three days 11/14-16/2012.
EA/PA: ~ 2 1/2 years
EA/beginning PA: ~ 10 months

"What God has joined together, let man... no man put asunder" -Pastor at our wedding concluding the ceremony

2 Cor 12:9-10


Posts: 294 | Registered: Dec 2012
somethingremorse
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Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stillstanding1 --

How would you feel during R, if things were going well, but you discovered your BS "snooping"?

He thanked me for being honest and said "well, I understand" and "that makes sense".

I am happy when my BW checks in on me. I want to have as many opportunities to prove to her that I am safe. I need to build up as many chips in my pile as possible.

If she triggers or feels embarrassed, I say the same things that your WH does. Plus I add that I am sorry that my actions have made her do these things that she hates. I understand that the only reason BW checks up on me is because of me.

For you, keep doing whatever it takes to make you feel safer. There are two different processes. One is the WS changing his actions to become honest. The second path is the one that the BS needs to go through to trust (as much as possible) the WS. These two processes do not happen at the same speed. You need to help your WH understand, if he does not already, that you are going through your process on your own timetable.

Hang in there.


Me: WH (40s)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
somethingremorse
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Member # 42047
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She plays the martyr card occasionally

I did this. It was part of my wayward thinking. It was one of the things that let me justify my As to myself -- "poor me, I am not getting any attention at home" and all that stuff. It was a way to temper the guilt, and a way to avoid any responsibility for my own actions.

When we started MC, our MC really called me out every time I went towards that martyrdom. I was eager to help, so I'd say those same things -- "I'm willing to be miserable/suffer/get beat up/whatever if it makes you feel better." Our MC cut that off every time.

The thing is, I do believe that I was sincere. Since I have always allowed myself to be a martyr, that was the pattern that I'd fall back into. I wasn't trying to manipulate anyone. It's just all that I knew. Through MC and IC, I am learning why martyrdom is not true (everyone is not shitting on me all the time), and is not helpful (it's better to discuss things with BW or whomever). These are hard lessons to learn. It is undoing decades worth of "training."


Me: WH (40s)
DDay 11/03/13
In MC and IC

Posts: 753 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Pennsylvania
neverdidithink
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Member # 40568
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for your honesty and willingness to share here.

My question: When I trigger, WH's shame and guilt can get in the way of him providing any significant support to me. Did you experieince this? How did you work through it and how long did it take for you to be able to be able to deal with it in a constuctive way?


Me: BW 52
Him: WH 55
Married 8 years
4 20-something his and hers kids

Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9


Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2013
rachelc
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Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question: When I trigger, WH's shame and guilt can get in the way of him providing any significant support to me. Did you experieince this? How did you work through it and how long did it take for you to be able to be able to deal with it in a constuctive way?

I read a LOT. And found this place. and I realized that shame was selfish and keeping me and him from healing. He needed to talk. I needed to listen. How to Help your Spouse heal from your Affair is a good book that addresses this.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

“Follow your intuition. Be smart, be brave. Tell the truth and don’t take any shit.”


Posts: 5529 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
neverdidithink
♀ Member
Member # 40568
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you rachel. I'm hoping he'll go back to IC to sort through this as it could be our undoing.


Me: BW 52
Him: WH 55
Married 8 years
4 20-something his and hers kids

Trying to understand the behavior of some people is like trying to smell the color 9


Posts: 344 | Registered: Sep 2013
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