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User Topic: First date night since dday
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A few weeks ago BW confessed to me that she finds her coworker attractive and wondered what it would be like to kiss him. She says he's not someone she would ever be with because he sleeps around and "uses people". At the time I said something like "Thank you for telling me. If it helps you heal, or feel better, or get it out of your system without having a full blown revenge affair etc, then I would let you. If you need to go kiss someone, then I deserve for you to." or something to that effect. More on this in a minute.

So last night was our first real date night since dday 2 months ago, as in, the 2 of us alone without our son. I took her to a fancy french restaurant and even had flowers waiting. I spent a lot of time trying to find the perfect words for the card. I settled on this quote: "The most precious gift we can offer others is our presence. When mindfulness embraces those we love, they will bloom like flowers." You can read more about it here:

http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/quote-of-the-month/thich-nhat-hanh-most-precious-gift

When I showed her the card she just said "Nice." and that was it. Sigh.

She did not want to go out with me in the first place. That much was obvious before we left the house. She teared up. I asked if she was ok, she shook her head no. I apologized "I'm sorry you're not ok and I hope this evening makes things better etc".

It was an awkward mostly silent car ride. There was some chit chat but mostly she played on facebook on her phone while I drove. I said "Thank you for coming today." She said "Well, I have to make an effort too, right?" I said quietly that she didn't "have" to do anything..

After a few drinks, she reminded me of that conversation we had about that coworker she wanted to kiss and confessed that she actually went and kissed him. It happened a few weeks ago back when she decided she was "done" with me (which, when time moves as slowly as it has been, is a long time for me). The guy no longer works at the place and had been planning to leave anyway. Went to be with his wife overseas or someshit. So this was kind of a going away present I guess. She said she never would have gone through with it had
I not given her permission of sorts. Great.

She says she doesn't like kissing me in general. She's "not trying to hurt my feelings", she's "just trying to be honest".
Sigh. It's also that-time-of-the-month right now, so maybe that explains the tiredness, moodiness, semi hurtful remarks and lack of interest? I had a hard time understanding my wife and her moods *before* I went and nuked our marriage. Of course, maybe it's all because of my A's and her tiredness is because she's worked 12 hour days (for all intents) for 3 days in a row.

She says she doesn't think MC is doing anything for us. So, WTF. I'm not sure if we should continue to go. We probably will, but it just sucks watching that money disappear each week. A consequence of my terrible actions.

While perusing the wine list I noticed they had a bottle for $2000. I said, trying to be romantic, something like "If I could win back your heart with that bottle, I would gladly pay that price". She replied, and rightly so, that I can't buy her love and that she would be just as happy at Willie G's eating fried pickles and not having a super expensive dinner. "Well," says I, "We can do that."
"Next sunday, " she says, "Cheap food and we can shoot some pool." So, we get to go on another date again, which.... is good news... right??

Oh, remember the cute kitty we just got? She says she didn't want it. She's not a cat person. She only got it for our son who really wanted it. Even though it was cute sleeping on her shoulder. Kittens she likes. Cat's, not so much. Son and I are in charge of taking care of it she says.

I noticed I've stopped saying "I love you" all the time. All I was getting was "Thanks" and "OK" in response. Haven't gotten any smooches in a couple days either. She says goodbye, gets in the car for work; oh, we still wave to each other, but that's it.

We still sleep in the same bed, but more often than not if my hands or legs are over on her side she'll shove them back over on my side. Heck, she even tried shoving them when I was completely on my side.

I ask her often how she's feeling and she says fine, but she usually internalizes her feelings, so fine doesn't necessarily mean fine.

I asked her if she had a good evening last night and she gave me sort of a half nod, half shrug.

So, I don't know what to do with myself half the time. When she's home, if I go to where she is, or god-forbid, follow her from one room to another, I'm smothering her and being needy/clingy. If I don't go to where she is, then I'm ignoring her.

I'm a lot less anxious and panicky, in general, though still very worried. Still walking on eggshells and waiting for the other shoe to drop. I can't change how she's going to react or behave. She could have refused to come to dinner at all or even try to have date nights if she were really well and truly "done". She keeps saying I'm her best friend, and maybe for the sake of our son, that will be enough. Friends with benefits.... Minus the kissing.... I know it's only been 2 months, but it feels like 2 years. Sigh.

Some of you have advised me that as long as she remains living with me, and protesting, then that's a good sign. She could have left already and decided she just doesn't care anymore to go anywhere or do anything with me. She still can. But that's in the future, which I can't control. I can only live here in the present. Keep the house clean. Work. Spend time with my son. Get some exercise. Enjoy a good meal. Write out my thoughts like I'm doing. Read. Go to counseling. Relax with the dogs and kitten. I tried to research ways I can take my son to do some volunteer work, or maybe go to a board game meetup or something. One day at a time. Change what I can. Accept what I can't change. Good stuff.

So why do I feel so blah?


Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)
MC and IC for 2.5 months-ish. Currently stopped.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2014
BrokenButTrying
♀ Member
Member # 42111
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh good grief, it's like you've written out my life. I can't express how much I relate to this.

SH, I'm so very sorry that your wife kissed her co-worker. How do you feel about that, honestly? Forget your A, forget everything that's going on right now because that has nothing to do with it... how do you feel about your wife kissing another man?

Sit with those feelings, process them. Please don't rug sweep them or justify that kiss because of what you've done. This is not a tit for tat situation.

Your wife is feeling ambivalence. This is her stuff to work through, she has to take responsibility for her own healing. Keep doing what you're doing, you're doing great!

I honestly don't know what to do with myself in H's company either. It's like some sort of awkward dance, isn't it? You're not sure whether to move closer or move away. Hang in there, I know it's tough but just keep working on you.


Me - 27
Him - 27
Madhatters

My Ddays - 01/10 & 12/04/14
His Dday - 23/12/13

Chin up. Unwavering. Fight. I can do this.


Posts: 1235 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: UK
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's been 2 months since your d-day. I'm surprised your BW went out with you anywhere, honestly.
"I'm sorry you're not ok and I hope this evening makes things better etc".
You made the evening all about you, your needs, how to feel better so when you ask
So why do I feel so blah?
it's because you are trying to control the outcome of your interactions with your wife and things are not working out as you had imagined. She did not want to go to dinner with you, yet you dismissed her tears and sadness with a "I hope it gets better", which can be translated to "meh, I'm sorry you're hurting but I need you to go out with me so I can feel better about myself and what I did to you. You'll get over it." That may not be your intent, but that's how I am receiving it and shit, I am a FWW.

Bottom line, if you keep this up, you are going to push her even further away. Stop trying to take control of her healing and her journey and start focusing on how to heal yourself.

What are you doing to work on you?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5938 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks BBT.

I remember, back when we were hanging out and overdrinking with Other Couple, that BW would often talk to AP about this guy at work. She thought I didn't care and she was very conflicted about it. I remember watching her cry to AP from afar after having been booted from the room. Therein lies part of the problem; she was confiding in her friend about our problems and this guy, instead of talking to me.

Anyway, she didn't have to tell me about the kiss, but she did. I appreciate that. I said "So, what, you went outside after your shift and made out by the dumpster?" She said "pretty much."

She would tell me all the time about how she only wanted me, and never anyone else. Had I been faithful I know she wouldn't have gone and kissed him.

So it's hard to put the A's aside and treat it as something that could've happened just on its own.

I'd like to think, had I not been unfaithful and had this happened, that I would've been understanding about it and realized that we were having serious problems in our marriage and should get counseling or something. I'm one of those people who never thought he would have an affair in the first place and thought less of people who did. But I know now that you don't even need to be having marital difficulties for an A to happen.

Of course, I would've been upset about it at first. I probably would've said something like "You don't see me going around kissing other women..."

But then it would come down to whether she was remorseful about it and why she did it. And there would be a conversation about what we should do about it.
She told me once "If I went and cheated on you, you'd divorce me". Maybe. But I don't know.
We met online 16 years ago and have been through a lot together. That's not something you just throw away. Even though, that's exactly what I was risking/doing with my own A's.

Not so fun being on the betrayed side, and this is only a kiss.

But no, you say, it's not only a kiss... "Not Just Friends!"

My first A started with me venting about my wife to her friend. So I get how that goes.

She'd vent to her coworkers about me especially having lost her confidant due to the double betrayal. Who was left?

He listened. He got a kiss. I understand that's how it all starts. But I believe her that it didn't go any farther. And I believe her that he longer works there and is out of her life.

She was on facebook in bed last night with all the lights off. That triggered me a little because that's the sort of thing I would do. Add a touch of paranoia and she could be messaging him or someone else, etc. But I'm the lying selfish asshole here. My behavior is not necessarily hers. And it's no way to live.

I'm more concerned about her and I; about us. Is she going to work with me to make our marriage great? Can we still have fun together and be a family? I'd be less concerned about this kiss if so.

I know my actions don't make it right. But I don't know how to treat it as its own betrayal of sorts. I feel like it's justified. I understand her wanting to feel wanted and desired and why she would be feeling like I don't want or desire her.

So, I guess I feel like it really doesn't change anything. It's just another consequence of things. So I really don't feel any different than I did before she told me...


Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)
MC and IC for 2.5 months-ish. Currently stopped.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2014
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I'm sorry you're not ok and I hope this evening makes things better etc".
You made the evening all about you, your needs, how to feel better so when you ask

Well, I was keenly aware during that apology that it could come off as seeming more concerned about the evening than about her feelings and I was trying to be very careful about how I worded it. I did tell her that if she wasn't up to it, it didn't have to happen.

When I said I hope it gets better, I really was being sincere. I really did want to ease her pain, and I knew there would be a big bouquet or flowers waiting that she would smile at (she did).

I'm also mindful of how my posts can come off here as being all about me and my feelings as well. Some of that is intentional. This is my safe place to vent my feelings and say how I'm feeling and what my concerns are. The rest of the time I'm practicing my listening and empathy skills on both my son and her. I don't just act interested,
I *am* interested. I focus on what they say, I repeat it back to them. I make them feel felt.
I am keenly aware of my thoughts while listening and whether they're wandering. I don't know whether to call it mindfulness or hypervigilance
but either way, I'm aware of everything I do or say now.

But you're right. The mere fact that I was feeling blah is a lack of control. I'm aware I'm feeling it but I'm choosing to feel it and let the situation control me.



Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)
MC and IC for 2.5 months-ish. Currently stopped.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2014
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Read what MJ wrote.

What are you doing to focus on you and not her?

At the end of the day, if she decides she doesn't want this M, you are left with yourself, and you need to fix that person and be ok with that person. Because you have to live with him for the rest of your life. Right now you are putting so much mental energy into whether she stays or not and your M, that you are not getting down to fixing yourself. Refocus yourself, and then you can stop making this all about you when she continues to reject you.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4972 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that helped my BS and I. Was my accepting no expectations. It sounds like you were expecting her to see this dinner as a selfless act of love and romance. It may have gone better to find out 1. Does she even want to go out? And prepare for her to change her mind when the day comes. 2. Where would she like to go. To feel comfortable? does she really want to get dressed up and go to a fancy place and fake that she wants to be there?


I do not make reservations. I take it one day at a time. And in my case, I left the destination up to my BS. If we went to a movie I was okay not staying. We spent more time talking than anything else. We opted for sharing a bath and discussing things. Rather than going out. Sure it's fun to go out and forget for a while. But does that actually happen, generally not. It just makes our BS put on an act.

JMO


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 629 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you think you could have worded that differently so it didn't put the responsibility back on her that she was having a bad night?


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4972 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that helped my BS and I. Was my accepting no expectations. It sounds like you were expecting her to see this dinner as a selfless act of love and romance. It may have gone better to find out 1. Does she even want to go out? And prepare for her to change her mind when the day comes. 2. Where would she like to go. To feel comfortable? does she really want to get dressed up and go to a fancy place and fake that she wants to be there?

I do not make reservations. I take it one day at a time. And in my case, I left the destination up to my BS. If we went to a movie I was okay not staying. We spent more time talking than anything else. We opted for sharing a bath and discussing things. Rather than going out. Sure it's fun to go out and forget for a while. But does that actually happen, generally not. It just makes our BS put on an act.

This


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4972 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:04 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I ask again, as TG asked,
What are you doing to focus on you and not her?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5938 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not following you tired girl

I was not putting anything on the BS. I can redact my post if it comes across as blaming or offensive.

My BS told me she always felt like she had to put on a false front when going out. And so that it made her uncomfortable. Also she explained to me that when she felt there were expectations, she felt pressured. That is all I was trying to convey.

My apologies.


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 629 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was saying that what you posted was good.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4972 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, you're right. I wanted to pull out all the stops and give her as fantastic an evening as I could, without considering that she might not have wanted it (even though she devoured the foie gras). I took her agreement to having a date night as an opportunity to make things right in some small part.

Well, it's done. Next time it will be a lot more low key and with no expectations. If it even happens next sunday. :)

Reading back over some of my previous posts, I see that I still have a lot more work to do. Some days it seems like I'm doing so well and then other days I'm getting bent out of shape on how we're doing as a couple.

I'm no longer disgusted when I look in the mirror.
Every day I'm reading, talking, posting, trying, learning and understanding more and more. I can't change the past or predict the future so I'm trying to make it the best present I can. If I have to live alone then I'll do so knowing that I did what I could to be a better person, husband, and father.


Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)
MC and IC for 2.5 months-ish. Currently stopped.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2014
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 1:45 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm no longer disgusted when I look in the mirror.
Every day I'm reading, talking, posting, trying, learning and understanding more and more. I can't change the past or predict the future so I'm trying to make it the best present I can. If I have to live alone then I'll do so knowing that I did what I could to be a better person, husband, and father.

At 2 months out, well further along than me. At 2 months out, I finally had full disclosure.

Keep doing the work, you owe it to YOU.


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 629 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Change takes time - give yourself that. Every situation is a learning opportunity.

Are you in IC?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5938 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
SelfishHusband
♂ Member
Member # 43174
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I'm in IC


Me: FWH (39)
Her: BW (34)
DDay 1: March 2013 (EA/PA that *I* rugswept)
DDay 2: April 2014 (PA with double betrayal. OW was wife's friend)
Married: 13 Years
1 Handsome and Amazing Son (10)
MC and IC for 2.5 months-ish. Currently stopped.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2014
DrJekyll
♂ Member
Member # 43618
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SH

Yes, you're right. I wanted to pull out all the stops and give her as fantastic an evening as I could, without considering that she might not have wanted it

Then pull out all the stops, how she would want it.

How about this:
1. Cook her a nice dinner, her favorite food. If you do not know how to make it. Learn. Don't just pick her favorite thing you know how to make.
2. Give her a manicure/pedicure read up and learn how to do it. include hand and foot massage.
3. communicate with her. about what she want to discuss. the A's, work whatever,
4. flowers - take the time to find flowers that she would like. not just a dozen roses. what are her favorite flowers/colors etc.

MAKE IT ABOUT HER. And do all of this with no expectations. No pressures of kissing or nightcap. Just show her how much she means to you. That is all you can do.


Moving from Jekyll the destroyer to Jekyll the rebuilder.

"If you don't eat the elephant in one bite, it might trample you while chewing"

ME: WH HER: BS (holesinmybucket)

no stop sign = BS always welcome
I do not PM with women


Posts: 629 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: United States
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, June 30th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Very good. Aside from IC, what else are you doing to work on you?


FWW - 41
"Don't think first about the risks of speaking up. Think first about the risks of not speaking up." ~ Kerry Patterson

Posts: 5938 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
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