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craig2001
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Member # 55
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Because I know how my wife's mind works, and if she writes him a letter it will be as kind as can possibly be, apologizing for hurting him and telling him how wonderful and sweet he was,
Explain to your wife that NO guy is sweet and kind that goes after a married woman. No guy is sweet and kind that has sex with a married woman.

Point this out to her in a that is the facts of life attitude. And since when did she ever consider any guy nice and sweet for having sex with a married woman.

If some woman had sex with you, and you called her sweet and kind, what would your wife think...ask her that!

You want to see real anger in real life. Have your wife read some of the BWs posts on here.

Also - after losing the weight on what is called the Dday diet or other names, now might be the time to start eating healthy and working out.

You and your wife could start doing these things together. Cooking together and working out together. Since that would build her self esteem and get rid of the need for outside validation.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 9:06 AM, July 7th (Monday)]


Posts: 4298 | Registered: Jun 2002
Bigger
♂ Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does your wife see OM as a knight or as a predator?

Look – from what YOU post it seems OM is a player. It seems he seeks married women and relishes the conquest. But that’s what we get from YOUR posts.
What if he’s really smitten by your wife?
Does he know that you know? Is the affair in the open?
If he knows you know then is it possible that he simply doesn’t give a shit?

Does your wife think that what OM offered was in any way special?
Does she regret it being over? Why did it end?

Lot’s of questions but answering them will help us a lot.

Let’s address a couple of issues:

OM being a player and WW being the catch of the day. Coming from you that is worthless. Nothing you can or will say will make OM look bad so don’t bother with it. This is why I asked about your friend that told you of other women that have fallen for him. He could possibly convince your wife of OM true intentions.

A NC letter to OM.
You should demand a NC letter. Yes – she writes it and she sends it but the content is quite short, concise and predefined:
“OM – Having an affair with you is immoral and wrong. I have decided to totally commit to H and my marriage and will never again have any contact with you in any way or form. I request that you respect this and do not try to have any contact with me in any way or form. Any breach in this request will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action”.

No emotions, no regrets.
It’s not “our love was not meant to be” or “sorry”. He knew what he was getting into and so did she.


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

Bigger just wrote the letter for you.

A NC letter to OM.
You should demand a NC letter. Yes – she writes it and she sends it but the content is quite short, concise and predefined:
“OM – Having an affair with you is immoral and wrong. I have decided to totally commit to H and my marriage and will never again have any contact with you in any way or form. I request that you respect this and do not try to have any contact with me in any way or form. Any breach in this request will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action”.

No emotions, no regrets.

If she does not want to do this, then she is still in the fog, because she is the one who cheated and she does not understand that some of her wants are second fiddle to yours now.

You have a real problem because you have a wife that has nothing to do all day, a predator who wants to bang her again minutes away, he knows where you live, and he knows how to contact her.
You MUST make all of that more difficult so that there is absolutely no question that if any contact again occurs it is entirely on your wife.

That letter NEEDS TO INCLUDE STOPPING BY YOUR HOUSE AGAIN OR BEING ON YOUR PROPERTY AND IF YOU FIND OUT HE IS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD YOU WILL FILE FOR A RESTRAINING ORDER.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Mtaylor
New Member
Member # 43931
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will present it to her tonight. I agree it's 100% necessary. Head in the sand thing may feel okay right now but I know too damn well what kind of hurt can come out of it. Thanks guys....I appreciate the directness.

Fact is, school starts back up in 7 weeks and she'll be alone all day. I'm nowhere near ready to trust at that level. Some things need to seriously change during that time. This could be step 1 in that process, or step "fuck it all" depending on how she reacts. I have to come to terms with that.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

Remember , tonight she needs to tell you why she does not want her phone number changed. It is no big deal to get the new one to her friends . There is only one reason she does not want to make it harder for him and that is because she likes the attention and at this point .
If she balks at any of this you better put yourself into major snoop mode or you are going to be setting yourself up for major heartache.
You need to tell her why she things that four weeks ago a guy calls or stops by the house and two days later she has sex with him ands he thinks be aside she makes a few statements to you her life just goes on as normal.
I think that is what she thinks. And if he tells her he is hurt or has a closure meet up she will wind up in bed with him again. She has a track record on saying yes to this POS
You can justify your demands by the fact that he tried to contact her again. She should find that disrespectful to you her husband.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One other thing.

If you can afford it, I would pick a week before school starts and a week after school starts to hire a PI from another town. If she is lying to you she will not go a whole week without making a mistake. You are 28 days out from when she was in bed with him . It would give me peace of mind if I was in your situation with a wife that has nothing but time on her hands.
I could have easily afforded it but was too stupid to do it


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Uhtred
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Member # 40392
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The PI suggestion is an awesome idea indeed. This will definitely give you the peace of mind you deserve. Either do that or a GPS on the car. If you can afford a PI go with that option. If not the GPS will at least let you know where she went and for how long. My wife is also a stay at home mom and one of my kids isn't in school yet but still managed to carry on an affair for a year plus talk and text to other men. Have a good week brother. Everything is going to be ok no matter what the outcome. You are going to be ok.


Me: BH 32years old DDay 4-29-13
Her: WW 33 years old
“Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword”

Posts: 627 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Houston, Texas
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:13 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

Let us know what happened. You will get real idea where her head is at to tonight


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Mtaylor
New Member
Member # 43931
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Went better than I expected. I flipped the script a little and asked her early in the evening "Do you want this guy to find some sort of happiness? You want him to find someone to help raise his son and be there for him?" Which she said yes. I asked her if she would be jealous of that person and she said no, that she realized how indulgent and reckless and hurtful this all was. So I told her "He can't do that....He can't effectively move on and start that phase of his life if he has ANY INKLING WHATSOEVER that there is still a chance for you two to work out. You have to crush that firmly and decisively to give him a chance to move on, and more importantly, to prove to me that you're in this marriage 100%.

So we took the template from Dr. Harley's book, tweaked it to fit us, and sent it to him. I temporarily removed the block on her phone so she could send it, and then went into Verizon device management and blocked it permanently so he couldn't argue his case. She seemed down by it all, which I expected, but not hesitant, which made it a little easier.

That was step 1. There is still a very long way to go before I even say we're making progress. He still lives in the little Podunk Town, we're still gonna see him at football games and community activities, and school still starts in 7 weeks. Moving is still an option, but I want to see how this next month or so goes.

Interestingly enough, she is now admitting that this was "kind of" a midlife crisis, and that her fears of getting older make her irrational sometimes. I have suggested IC and she wasn't opposed. I do understand that I played a role in it, in that I created a vacuum where some of her basic needs weren't being met, and if we set ourselves on a path towards true reconciliation (we're just dancing the dance right now...I know that), that will be my job to work on. I do not however, lay any BLAME on myself for the affair. That was horrible judgment by an insecure, emotionally distraught, weak-willed woman. That is what SHE will have to work on.

The mental movies are still as bad as ever. The hurt hasn't faded any. The trust is still shattered......But I'm doing all that I know to do. I'll keep y'all updated.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:41 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor,

Sorry, but here is the first 2x4. Please excuse me but i think you need to hear it.

First, you should not give a fuck about what she thinks about HIS future happiness, but her answer is a BIG red flag indicating she is still in the fog, big time. She showed no anger at all that this guy is attempting to do something that will surely end her marriage, namely making contact with her again.

I am not familiar with the Dr. Hartley letter, but my guess is is that is was very polite and requested he behave in a certain way and did not give him any consequences if he continued to pursue your wife. You should NOT have to be considering moving because you cannot stop this guy from attempting to fuck your wife. Tonight, i would unblock her phone and read what he responded without her seeing it. it will probably indicate he has no intention of listening to it.

Too bad about her mid life crisis. You are the same age and you did not fuck another woman, so that crap is just a justification that has not gone from her mind as a validation of her feelings to do this, not once but twice. The second time could not be attributed to ANY mistake. it was a totally conscious decision.

I told you this yesterday, but i will tell you again. If you do not be MORE than just vigilant in a small town with a woman whose wherabouts you have no clue of, here is what is going to happen
(1) he can use someone elses phone to call her and she will probably answer the phone. Why won't you change the phone number???? Then there is absolutely no way he can reach her unless he guesses the new number. Same with e mail address
(2)She first started this at pick up place at school on first day. if you cannot or don't hire a PI, you should take a few hours off from work and follow her and see if she talks to him that day because you know they will both be there. I hope you have told her that you expect her to walk away and that you will not accept it was just a friendly conversation. That is NOT no contact.

The techies here can tell you how you can easily track her movements, and you need to get copies of your phone bills that will show all calls received and texts, the numbers that they came from. Do not tell her you are doing this.

Lastly, i would NOT let her go to IC. I would go to MC WITH her. The reason being that you will know what she is telling the therapist. Waywards lie all the time in IC and you will have no clue.
Also, there are numerous examples on this forum of idiot therapists who do not think affairs are that bad. One guy had a wife whose girlfriend was a therapist and recommended Ashley Madison to her to help her start an affair. You need to find a therapist and TELL them that the first order of business is stopping her from staying in this fog before the mid life crisis get used as an excuse. THERE ARE NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSES.

I know this is hard, no one said it was going to be easy, but the fact is if she had not confessed, she would be fucking him daily and you would have no clue. And right now all you have is her word, the word of someone whose less than a month ago, totally betrayed you.

If you take the easy road, unfortunately you will be back again with more devastating news. i hope you are reading some of the other threads. The men who took the hard stand, took no prisoners, in most cases came out far ahead of those the played Mr. Nice Guy.

The choice is obviously yours. i hope you do the right things for your own sake and happiness


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Jduff
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Member # 41988
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Interestingly enough, she is now admitting that this was "kind of" a midlife crisis, and that her fears of getting older make her irrational sometimes.

My understanding is that Midlife crisis is like a personal crucible, of which it can either bring out the best in you, or the worst in you. It is more of deep internal process of re-prioritizing and self discovery. Typical triggers are significant life impacting events (good or bad) or a phase in life/relationships. We all hit that point in varying degrees and ages. It's our "is this all there is?" moment and we begin to ponder our own self worth. I like to think most of us do this in a rather healthy way, without much upheaval in our own personal lives and our families and friends lives. Thrown in FOO issues or personality disorders and that person going through it is like a powder keg of self destruction ready to explode. Everyone within the blast radius is impacted. Midlife + Foo or PD = back to mentally being a teenager in the worst way. Also, A's are quite common. From what I've learned, expect anywhere from 2 to 7 yrs for her to get beyond this phase.

But understand, midlife crisis or not, it DOES NOT excuse an affair. PERIOD. Don't let her throw the "midlife" card out everytime you need to talk about her A. There are better ways to deal with "aging" (a lot of that has to do with personal acceptance), and having an A is completey born out of a selfish, self entitlement decision, irrespective of everyone who would be impacted. You didn't play a role in her midlife crisis (IF that is what she went through). It was her responsibility to make you aware of what she was feeling and going through. Elsewise, how the hell are you ever going to address any issues in the M? In midlife crisis, your role would be to walk with her through this process of change. Not be the focal point of her destructive behavior.


Divorced - 5/23/14
Already in my New Beginning - :)

Posts: 621 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: texas
Mtaylor
New Member
Member # 43931
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You guys are probably right. And I do appreciate the feedback and the advice.

I don't want to blow anything up right now because I am feeling good a TINY bit more often than I'm feeling bad. I know that's short-sighted and probably setting me up for more pain in the long run, but there are times when it feels so real and so honest that I'm ALMOST able to forgive. Not forget, NEVER forget, but maybe forgive.

I can see you guys shaking your heads at me.....

When my brain, heart, spine, and testicles all decide to show up on the same day, I'll vocalize all of these things we've been talking about. I may even share some of your comments specifically. I think it's important that she see other perspectives. I have to take small steps right now though...As much for my damaged psyche as anything else.


Posts: 24 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: Texas
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

You have to do what you want to. I urge you to read some of the other threads and see what happens when you just HOPE things will work out.
You have let this guys physical size intimidate you. He is trying to continue to hang your wife and she is not out of the fog.
Read the post from ONGUARD please. Labeled 12 Days I believe.
Please do not that happen to you.
Only you can prevent it. Don't count on her
The second dDay is not any easier because you will have added to the hurt the second guessing of all the things you did not do


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Bigger
♂ Member
Member # 8354
Default  Posted: 10:59 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dr. Harley is a well respected counselor with a proven track record.
For some his methods work – for others not so much.

As much as I loath to suggest this then maybe you should post your story on marriagebuilders.com. That site is geared towards Harleys methodology. To me the difference between MB and SI is like a cancer-ward compared to ER. We deal with the trauma and staunch the bleeding while MB follows a set healing program (which like chemotherapy might nearly kill you).

You will get mixed comments here on SI about MB and Dr. Harley. I don’t really want to open that can of worms. But I think posting on SI while reading Dr. Harley and trying to follow a mixup of the two is not going to work. Dump us or dump the doctor.

I do have one thought on what Dr. Harley would suggest if you phoned in to his show: He would suggest you sell the house and relocate.

Finally: IF she’s sacrificing her well-being to create an opportunity for OM to find a wife and partner… Why not offer her the chance to be that? Why not tell her that she’s free to go and that you will be fair and noble in the divorce process?


"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

Posts: 5567 | Registered: Sep 2005
craig2001
♂ Member
Member # 55
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Do you want this guy to find some sort of happiness?
It is so frustrating to be talking to a brick wall.

Ask her if she would be happy if this guy came over to your house and stabbed you (MTaylor) in the back, would she still care about him?

Would she like it if you had sex with some woman today and then told your wife you just want her to be happy.

Anything to make her think realistically


Posts: 4298 | Registered: Jun 2002
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MT, I do not agree with some of the thoughts above; I think you are doing the best you can. And doing it well.

There are observations that the FOG is still there as if that is a sign that something is wrong in your approach. Nor so IMO. That fog, and other aspects of the addiction, will take 60-90 days to dissipate. Maybe longer. It is a PROCESS not a light switch.

If she is willing to go to MC and/or IC, great. Maintain NC, great. Stay transparent, etc., great. That just means the framework is in place for healing to start. The fog will not go away immediately. It will clear some, then roll back in, and it will take time.

Also remember that every answer to 'why' will sound like an excuse. You will have to develop your own why that you can live with, in addition to what she does in terms of self-work.

If she is cooperating with keeping the framework together, IMO there is no need to be heavy handed. Just take rational steps like how Bigger advises folks. Take care of YOU. Focus on you.

Good luck.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 896 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Badhurt
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Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

Have to disagree with MC Jack on this one strongly. You are doing great, but you have a problem in that many do not have.
He knows exactly where your house is in a small town, has already been there when your wife was in garden.
He is ACTIVELY still pursuing your wife, knows how to reach her, and will undoubtedly run into her due to size of town, making NC much more difficult.
No consequences for him if he says screw you I am going to keep after her.

That is ALL much more dangerous for you while she comes out of the fog IF she does.

IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO YOU HAD NO IDEA THAT IT EVER HAPPENED AND WOULD YOU RATHER BE TOTALLY RELIANT ON HER WORD RIGHT NOW AND GIVE HER 100% TRUST WHILE YOU ARE AT WORK ALL DAY AND SHE HAS NOTHING BUT TIME ON HER HANDS WITH THIS HULK OF POS AFTER HER.

I think there is ample reason not to be passive now until you either determine he has given up or you are confident she is totally yours. neither one of those things is true right now,.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
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Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If she remains concerned about his happiness, maybe she can give some of her horny gf's a referral or something. Sorry, you must remain vigilant as she could easily slip back for "closure" or something and end up back in the active A mode. Badhurt has given some strong advice: GPS, phone tracker, etc. She has to know she is under the microscope. And show remorse, not sadness that this beautiful affair caused more harm than she thought it would.

As for you, focus on her. You can't really control her behavior,but at least you can track it and see it daily. You talk with her. You absolutely cannot control him, and since he's a habitual offender he's not going to care about you at all. And, for heaven's sake, doesn't Texas have and enforce the death penalty? Killing one of the town's good ol' boys is probably a capital offense. And, quite frankly, no woman is worth that to you. I don't care if WW was Miss Texas from a couple of years ago. Focus on what she does, not what he does. Sure, you need to make sure he's not around or communicating via electronic means. But he'll probably go on to his next conquest soon, anyway, if he's not getting his quota filled.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 4:49 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
MC_Jack
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Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MT, I guess you have two different perspectives here to work with. Bonus!

You can't really control her behavior
^^^ Exactly. So why try? You can't control the outcome so why try?

And show remorse, not sadness
^^^ that is not going to happen overnight. So, is the plan to shelter her until she figures that out? That would not be my plan. You let her protect herself and learn to make choices.

Why not offer her the chance to be that? Why not tell her that she’s free to go and that you will be fair and noble in the divorce process?
^^ that is where I would go with it. Let her succeed or fail on her own. Give her the clear, stark choice. Let her choose. And you be ready to let go of your marriage. I think that is when the blinders really start coming off.

To use a sloppy metaphor here. One choice, caveman stands vigilant by the cave opening looking out for hulk caveman rival and shielding cavewoman until she knows which fire is warmer.
Other choice, caveman takes cavewoman's hand and lead her out of the cave into the cold dark woods. Show her how to navigate through woods and predators to get to hulk caveman's cave. He points out that she will not know how to get back to (nor will be welcome at) his cave. If she makes the choice to stay, she will be more committed because she chose it on he own. Then he bends her over by the firepit. If she goes to the other cave, fine. Next cavewoman!

Edited for clarity

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 8:32 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" because I like the Music City. I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 896 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Mountain West
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MTaylor

I guess you have just been told to just go about your business don't worry about what happens and be prepared to move on if she shits on you and decides to bang him again. Wouldn't want to interfere with that.

Maybe you should arrange a get together for them to see if she makes good choices.
Basically sit by and just watch

If you go that route good luck


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
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