Getting ready for company after fireworks but I saw your post.
Quite frankly she is not coming around. Here is what has occurred
(1) You exposed her AP to his wife and others. It is highly likely she had nothing to do with this being officially over. He did. And she conveniently deleted all proof of what really occurred
(2) She said she wanted to R last week and then promptly lied to you . Your answer on her demands is that you are doing nothing until you believe there is something to salvage.
(3) She still has her private email account
(4) how does the fact that she first wanted to do damage control for AP this morning jive with being in love with you. He probably cut her off and right now you are plan B
The fact that she is still negotiating with you shows she does not get what she has done. She is also trying to avoid you going to work of OM with this information .so right now you are wrong if you think she has caved . When she caves, she will send the NC with you sitting there just to please you. She will stop worrying about the OM and giving you demands, and she will tell you she will do anything to restore your faith in her.
You need to give her the papers and tell her you will rip them up if you believe she really wants to be married to you and that you are not interested in being her call back because you may have ruined her affair.
She will then either cave or expose herself. But if you show weakness then you are still on her terms. Your conversation ended on a sour note because she did not get her way.
Her word that she has ended it should have no meaning. She is a proven liar and she made sure she could not prove it
Expose this mother fucking OM at work on Monday and give this bastard the grief he have you
Sorry for the F word, but it was for emphasis so you won't forget what you're dealing with in any discussions with her.
but that she needs me to commit to addressing the problems in our marriage.
And problems before that are now miniscule actually. Because she could have addressed those problems before going out with some OM.
I made the point that she hasn't done a single thing to demonstrate to me that her head is in the right place. She tried to take credit for ending it with her AP, but I told her she gets no credit for that since it was probably my "crazy" actions that ended it (for now), and she deleted the fucking conversation with him. She still believes that it was wrong of me to notify AP's wife and her dad and aunt. I told her I didn't regret doing that in the least bit.
I told her that she still just doesn't get it and ended the phone conversation.
She then sent me a text message saying that she realizes she needs to take action, but that there's "not much she can do before we talk". What is that supposed to mean?
What you want is a remorseful individual who is willing to risk exposure of her actions to friends, family, and coworkers, accountability for the A, empathy for your suffering, willingness to do what it takes to help you heal and fix her broken despite the likeliness that she very well may lose it all regardless of the hard work.
Let me give you a lawyer's tip. Negotiating/discussing her issues is a trap.
Can't you agree that we need to communicate better?
Well,,I guess that's fair....
I'm glad we agree on that
(She was just handed a complaint of you agree and now are violating your promise if in the next discussion she thinks you're not communicating).
She'll make her demands seems like reasonable, self evident propositions you can't disagree with. Yet she's storing ammo for,the next fight, even if it involves violating her NC agreement or whatever that never were negotiable.
Thus creating uncertainty in you during that next argument.
Trust me, I've been there many, many times in case negotiations. It is ALWAYS a trap.
There are only two,ways to avoid the trap. Well, three if you count refusal,to talk at all per North KoreanDiplomacy manual.
One, tell her that you are willing to discuss any topic but not until she agrees to your minimum conditions,since if they are not agreed to and adhered to, the M is over so her issues are then moot.
Two, tell her you can talk, but unless all points are agreed to, there is no deal on any of them and you will proceed D.
She'll like this one better, and you'll like it less, but she may never agree to method 1.
Remember or read about Vietnam peace talks in Paris? North knew US wanted out of the war in a face-saving way. North spent months negotiating the shape,of,the bargaining room table. Had zero to do with peace or war, it just made the process longer and the US more,desperate to reach an agreement to announce to the voting public. That's what her issues are--arguing over the shape of,the bargaining table. Your issue is peace or war. Renewed bombing finally moved the issue away from the shape of the table. Renewed 180 and D may move your issue to the forefront, too.
Does she negotiate for a living? If so, you are at a disadvantage. Consider what I've said here and remember your best protection against the trap is to always remember why you are talking: to see if she'll accept,or reject minimum conditions. Never forget that
Sorry about the random commas, but I'm on an iPad and not a keyboard
[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 11:33 AM, July 5th (Saturday)]
She obviously doesn't understand her impact that making passionate love to the OM has had on your relationship. She minimizes her adultery, and is willing to talk about the future of your marriage in terms of how little she has to give in order to make you satisfied. In essence she is determined to control your relationship. No guilt, no shame, no remorse. How do you reconcile with such a selfish WW?
I think you have done very well in dealing with your wife's cynical manipulation. If she truly loved you there would be remorse instead of her reprehensible obsession with control.
My long double post above was only if you thought you'd agree to talk to her. Remember what I said -- its a trap.
She will do enough to keep the marriage intact since the OM probably won't leave his family. The lack of trust and your unhappiness will not generate the relationship you deserve. You have some important decisions coming up about the kind of future you want.
I thought the NC message would be the simplest and easiest of the conditions for her to accept. She either really is trying to keep the door open for him, or she has too much pride to perform this "embarrassing" task. It's one disappointment after another.
You did well. When no deal on NC (your minimum #1) you walked away from the bargaining table.
Lawyers tip #2: never enter negotiations unless you are willing to walk away. All too often, getting to a deal becomes more important than the deal's terms themselves during the heat of negotiation.
Detach, detach, detach.
Let her pay a price for her transgression. So what if she will now try to paint you as the unreasonable bad guy. You have to live with you, nobody else does.
As Schadenfreude says detach detach detach.
File Mon. The only thing that may knock her off that fence is the D papers. And even then she might not. You have to let to of the outcome to save the M.
You are still doing very well.
She just sent me another message saying that she will not "talk about this 24/7." She says she needs time to herself and to spend time with me doing something else. How am I supposed to respond to that? Tell her that if she makes convincing effort to abide by all 5 conditions, it can be that way?
She is acting as if she ruined dinner and you can just order a pizza and forget about it. She has an incredible amount to learn and the sooner she does it the better.
This is not about her at all and she needs to understand that. Going out with other guys is not just a minor mistake.
At the least have her read Not Just Friends. And maybe some other books. But she has to realize what the hell she really did cause here. She really has no clue as to the pain she has caused today and in the future. No BS just gets over it.
Sorry, she's interested ONLY in manipulating you. NO MORE HB.
Not compatible with 180 for your mental health.
Who cheated on whom, btw? Never forget that. Who is in a position to resume the A on a minute's notice if thought to be sufficiently hidden?
The only card you can play is that for some reason, she doesn't want to be divorced. And that reason may be that she likes having Plan B in place ready to go if needed.
I'll bet you $100 to $1 that OM called off the active affair after his wife threatened to go Lorena Bobbett on him. You'll never know since WW conveniently erased all texts.
You can get a text retriever program. Download the information and if you can get ahold of WW's phone, use the program. Or, at a minimum, show the literature to WW and tell her you are installing it. Watch that phone get "lost" real soon. And if so, you know you owe me a dollar for losing the bet.
You notice I hope that SHE keeps contacting you. That is because you are holding your ground. I agree she is still trying to hold onto the ability to keep this affair going. I am not a techie but grab the phone, refuse to give it back to her, and tell her you are taking it to tech specialist to retrieve the messages. Unless she knows that cannot be done, she will go ape shit, but may flat out confess to more.
I would double down and send OM wife and relatives ANOTHER message telling them your wife is still trying to keep this thing alive and that you apologize for being unable to control her disgusting behavior. DO NOT care what they think.
This is about convincing your wife she is NOT gong to rug sweep this.
There is absolutely nothing you and her need to be discussing right now because you do not believe she is going to keep this affair over and until you are convinced of that there is no negotiating anything.
You MUST expose this at their job, and hopefully their HR Department will step in.
Your wife still insists on her private e mail and refuses to do whatever is necessary. There is no real remorse except that she got caught red handed trying to keep this thing going, and all of her worry so far is about controlling the damage to HER reputation and her AP. To you there is anger. If you want to accept that you are nuts.
Go to the attorney on Monday and give her the papers . She must be out of that job and she does not want to quit it because she does not want to leave herself out of the ability to do what she wants.
Right now look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you think she loves you and cares about you. I know the answer to that. She cares about you if she can have it her way.
Do t let that happen or you will be sorry