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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: How much is too much talking?
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have been in the process of R for two years and eight months. Things are so much better. My H has changed for the better in so many ways. I like who has become far more than who he was. He is so obviously happier, less stressed, kind thoughtful and loving. I am quite sure there has been NC with MOW and I know he is relieved that there has been no more drama. He is with me whenever he is not at work and has become a 9-5er, promptly home by 6.

He says that he is so very sorry that he was so stupid, selfish and reckless. He says is eyes are now open and cannot believe he was so blind for so many years. He loves me more than I will ever know and he thanks me regularly for being given another chance.

So why am I not happy? Why do I still need to ask him about the affair? Why do I write him letters pouring out my feelings or thoughts or ask him more questions?

In the beginning, he patiently answered my questions, but was always the one to call an end to the conversation. I could have gone on for hours. Then, during the second year, we would only discuss it once a week. For the last 8 months, our talks about the affair have been limited to an hour or so every two to three weeks and that is not enough for me.

I feel that if we could talk about whatever is nagging in my thoughts, I would feel better and be able to file it away.

Obviously we can't talk while he is at work and at night he is too tired, or we are too busy. So while I wait for an early morning hour on the weekend, or sometimes the next weekend, the thoughts or questions fester.

So I write to him to give him time to read and respond when he is able. He rarely responds unless I ask him. And I only ask when I have reached a point of frustration..

I still need this. There is so much to process and so much to understand. He doesn't show any interest in understanding his choices or in looking within himself to answer my questions.

I'll stop now as I am rambling. I guess You can understand his reluctance to talk with me!!

Should I not press him to talk about it anymore? Am I hurting our chances to reconcile?


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
KatyDo
♀ Member
Member # 41245
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A couple of things come to mind...that was a long time for him to have an affair so I'm glad that he is behaving better. He may not be able to talk about it with the level of insight that you are hoping for. I think it's important for them to know why they did as they did, but I think that men are less eager to analyze to the degree that women are. It may be enough for him to have decided to make the change and be following through with it.

Also, perhaps there is some part of you that feels lesser than the affair partner? That might drive some of your desire to know more. But in the end, you still have your dignity and knowing all about the affair partner gives over some of your power perhaps.

On the other hand you do have the right to ask any and all questions. Maybe just think about the above to see if those are relevant factors.


Married 7 years, together for 14
Me: BS Him: chronic boundary issues, EA for 2 years, DD Spring 2013

Posts: 194 | Registered: Nov 2013
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KatyDo,

Thank you for your thoughts. You are probably correct in that I may be expecting more insight from him than he is able to give. But that in itself frightens me a bit. If he can't understand himself, who can?

He has indeed changed many behaviours, and perhaps some thought patterns (or lack of them) and feels confident in himself that he is a "new man".

But often, I think of things he has said, and realize that they contradict other statements. I need to know which is the truth. Other times I will remember something and I need to know if it was real or not. Then there are just questions that plague me.

The only way in which aI may feel "lesser" than the OW is that she was able to make him do things that went against what I believed were honourable principles, and I can't get him to do the things I required in order to reconcile. So I am certainly less influential, but you may have a point about the power thing.

Perhaps I feel that if I know all about their relationship, including feelings and discussions, then they will hold no secrets from me. It's the unknown that makes me feel powerless.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
karmahappens
♀ Member
Member # 35846
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shit, fighting back...a 15 year affair?


The one thing I would caution you on is expecting him to remember everything you need to know.

He carried this affair on for 15 years...I have a hard time remembering breakfast. There will be things he truly forgot. He wasn't keeping a log during this time, never realizing he would have to one day recount the events to you. So there may be much that's been "lost"

Contradictions happen too, as time goes on his feelings may change regarding an event or a certain memory, causing the contradictions, kwim?

I would watch his actions, be sure those are consistent. Watch how he interacts with others and see if the man you are with is the man he shows to others. I liked to listen to my husband chit chat in social settings when he didn't know I was listening...it used to make me smile.

I would let him know your desire isn't to punish him, it's to understand. If he is unable to talk any more or feels it's been long enough, call bullshit. He got to screw around for 15 years...you get equal amount of time to grill him about it.

If it really becomes an issue it isn't your talking that will hurt the chance to R, it would be his reluctance to help you heal.

He needs to keep on talking, until you are done.

(((hugs)))


“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom”
Anaïs Nin
Me: 45
Him: 47
Dday 8/2007
We have R'd

Posts: 3845 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Massachusetts
hihn
♀ Member
Member # 43986
Default  Posted: 11:23 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fighting back, from the beginning it sounds like he was the one who was usurping control over your question & answer time. My wh was told from the beginning by his counselor to let me ask questions as often & as long as I needed & that I was to be the one who determined how long & how often, not him. His job was to listen & answer those questions honestly to the best of his ability no matter how often or how long it took, even if they were the same questions over & over again.


Me BS 58yo
Him WS 55yo, porno & sex addict
DD#1 1/28/14 co-worker#1 1991
DD#2 2/8/14 co-worker#2 9/13 - 4/14,he moved in with OW 3/9/14, moved out from OW 4/8/14
DD#3 4/10/14 22+ anonymous sex OW
Full disclosure 7/30/14 30+ sex parteners
TT is

Posts: 130 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: colorado
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 11:24 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the beginning, he patiently answered my questions, but was always the one to call an end to the conversation. I could have gone on for hours. Then, during the second year, we would only discuss it once a week. For the last 8 months, our talks about the affair have been limited to an hour or so every two to three weeks and that is not enough for me.

Who is setting this limit? Him? Why have you agreed to this? If you are rebuilding, the two of you need to at least compromise. This does not sound like a compromise, but an edict from your H. If he had a 15 year A, I would expect to talk about it for years. I find it a bit concerning for your H to force you to move along without "allowing" you to talk as much as you want about the A. If talking about your concerns and questions will upset R, maybe there really is no true R using his route. Waiting until it festers is not healthy for you. Do not put yourself down for having your thoughts and questions. You are being very patient, giving him the chance to think about your questions and respond. When he does not answer you he is disrespecting you. This is not a "man" thing. This is a selfish WS thing.

He needs to make the time for you and your communication. Do not think of it as ruining a mood or a downer. Think of it as getting better, burning a bit brighter with every question out of the way. Right now, he is killing the spark you are trying to keep tended for real R. You deserve the truth.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1526 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Karma,

Yes I realize that there are many things that he has forgotten and that "he didn't keep a log" (his words also), and I'm not asking for things like that. I'm asking things that I consider reasonable such as. "When did you realize that your employer/employee relationship had become more than that, and what made you decide to pursue it even further? Did you hesitate for any reason? Did you ever reconsider your choices? Did I enter your mind at all during this process?"

These are my exact questions. I have been waiting over a week I for a response. I have also sent 4 emails in the last month explaining the thought processes which bring me from a peaceful state of mind to a questioning one, to a frustrated and lastly resentful state, due to his lack of response.

hihn, thank you for that.

Lovedyoumore, he hasn't literally set a time limit, but he has always been the one to terminate these conversations. I agree it is disrespectful. And thank you for making me feel that I am not being unreasonable.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
Mhiimg65
♀ Member
Member # 41951
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FightingBack,
We are the same age I see. My situation is different. But ..When we live with a man long enough...do we ... cough cough ...believe them after the lie?
Your S's betrayal was far greater then my H. But I bet we suffer the same. My R is only 6 months, but I feel trust again because my situation is different from yours . I say you should believe him at this point, betrayal can go a long time or a short time, depending on the circumstances. At some point we need to trust. And that is our issue our BS's. My only advise.. give up asking him.. hold him close if you really love him and keep holding on if that's what you want.. and he will answer. And sometimes, you really don't need to know ...


" He paved paradise and put up a parking lot"
BS - me
WS- him
married 26 years, together since kids
D- Day Jan 4 2014
PMA- starting this moment
R - in MC. WH is in IC

Posts: 142 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: New York
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 12:32 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My only advise.. give up asking him.. hold him close if you really love him and keep holding on if that's what you want.. and he will answer. And sometimes, you really don't need to know ...

After a 15 year A? Quit asking him? Why? And, yes she needs to know. The secrecy needs to be exposed so that the A is put in its place. The basic questions of who, what, when, where, how, how many, last, first, middle, and why are a beginning points to start talking. You need a timeline and he can draw one up for you. You need to know what you were doing, what the kids were doing, what did he tell you he was doing, all those things that drive us crazy.

If my H cannot answer a question for me after I offer a gift of R to him, I do not want to hug him tight. He will be sent on his way. You cannot have trust without reasonable attempts, and possibly beyond, to tell the truth. You know what you need to know, he does not get to make that decision for you.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1526 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 12:46 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I certainly do need to know, but my hope is fading that I will in this lifetime. Lovedyoumore, I asked for a timeline in Jan.2012. Still waiting. I asked for a formal NC letter to be sent. Too late for that now. I asked for written apology to OBS. I have changed my mind on that one. I have asked, pleaded and threatened for OW voice to be removed from his office answering machine. He is always too swamped with other things.

I know these things will not happen and have accepted that but I have also asked him to talk to me about it. Not wait until I have more questions, but spill it all out because you don't want to have secrets from me. Tell me everything so that we can be as close as we can, with nothing to hide and be on the same page together. Bring it up because I'm thinking about it anyway.

I am so disappointed that I have to distance myself so that I don't feel the hurt so much.

And yet, in all other ways, he is the husband I had been missing for so long. Not emotionally unavailable, but emotionally selective.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
sinsof thefather
♀ Member
Member # 29295
Default  Posted: 3:42 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have asked, pleaded and threatened for OW voice to be removed from his office answering machine.
FightingBack, that he still hasn't done this sadly speaks volumes about him. It's been 2 years 8 months. If he hasn't found the time to do it by now, in my personal opinion I think you have to face the fact that it's because he just doesn't want to do it. No matter how difficult or time consuming it is, he's had two years and 8 months to get it done. He hasn't.

If I remember correctly he had her as his office answer voice and also his personal phone answer voice too, and that you had to virtually threaten to divorce about a year ago/18 months ago to get him to do something about it.

Even then he only removed her from one of them (his personal phone) but still kept her as the office voice that everyone who phones his company still hears. For me, this issue coupled with how he wants to be the one in charge of your questioning time is the reason you feel this:

So why am I not happy? Why do I still need to ask him about the affair? Why do I write him letters pouring out my feelings or thoughts or ask him more questions?
If I am correct in my memories, he didn't write a NC letter, he hasn't written you a time-line at all, he kept her as his personal answer-phone for at least a year after the affair, and hestill has her as his office voice. He has always either 'forgotten' or delayed answering everything you have ever asked about the affair. It sounds a lot like rugsweeping to me. 'I'm giving you a better marriage now - so let's forget about the 15 year affair I had'.

I'm sorry to sound so harsh because I really do feel for you, but in my opinion he won't look into himself because he doesn't want to. He won't take her off the answer phone because he doesn't want to. And he also wants you to rugsweep a 15 year affair. He uses delaying and forgetting tactics to wear you down and to get his own way in all things to do with the affair, hoping that in time, the times you bring those things up will get longer and longer apart until you give up and just cease to do so at all.

Yes, he's prepared to make changes so that your marriage going forward is better than it was in the past, but he benefits from that too - and he still wants it done his way.

FightingBack, I don't doubt that he probably does love you, but he's still putting himself first. I've had personal experience with a man like this, and in my opinion, no matter the other changes he's made, he's still the same selfish man that he was before. It seems to me that he's never even attempted to change that part and I think you have to decide if you can live with that.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 3:56 AM, July 7th (Monday)]


...second star to the right and straight on till morning.

Posts: 1880 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: UK
FightingBack
♀ Member
Member # 34770
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sins,

You have an excellent memory.

And your synopsis is both fair and accurate.

I perceive no tone of harshness in your response, just thoughtfulness and realism. You have given me a clarity that I was perhaps not wanting to recognize and that is that the selfishness remains an overriding factor in our recovery. That and my own obstinacy.

I do have to decide how much I will accept and what I am willing to live with.

My path has never been absolutely clear to me since dday and I often question my decisions. I had hoped that by this point in time I would be more clear and that is why it helps to hear it from a an objective point of view. Thank you.


Me 53
WH 58
Married 25 years
4 children S30,D24, S23,S21
D-Day Nov. 29, 2011
15 year affair with married employee.
Together trying to make sense of it all!

Posts: 783 | Registered: Feb 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do have to decide how much I will accept and what I am willing to live with.

My path has never been absolutely clear to me since dday and I often question my decisions. I had hoped that by this point in time I would be more clear and that is why it helps to hear it from a an objective point of view. Thank you.

Honey I am so so sorry.

I asked my husband to sell the car OW2 was in. It took him five months. We me throwing a fit about it. It took an MC hitting him upside the head for him to get it, which makes it worse because why not listen to me, I'm your wife. Do MY NEEDS mean nothing?

Your needs mean everything. And I get the "I need to accept this" thing. Makes recovery near impossible. Hug!!!

[This message edited by rachelc at 8:43 AM, July 7th (Monday)]


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's

The conditions we face do not define us. They remind us of who we are and who we want to be.


Posts: 5255 | Registered: Dec 2010 | From: Midwest
Lovedyoumore
♀ Member
Member # 35593
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still think you and H could fix this. Have you told him you are on the edge and hanging on by a fingernail? The things you listed that he has done are the easy lifting things. Those are things a good loving H should be doing.

Now, what about the things a good H should be doing after having a LTA? He fails on that. Have you made it easy on him? It is not too late to get strong, be strong, and stay strong. He is comfortable. Talking about the A is outside his comfort zone and he has been getting away with withholding things from you.

Change his comfort level. If he will not read books on his own, chose one of the healing books suggested on SI, and insist he read them with you, a chapter one evening and discuss it the next. Try to start with general conversations and work toward more specific info. You can set aside the time. Your marriage is worth 30 minutes a day, every day you need it. If it is not important enough for him, you need to know.

He may try the old "get over it" response. How long do we have to keep talking about this? Until. He took years from you. He needs to at least attempt to give you years back.


Me 52
WH 52
Married 30+ years
Together trying to R

I tell people I am tired but really my heart is broken and I am sad.


Posts: 1526 | Registered: May 2012 | From: Southern, bless your heart
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