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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: Gaslighting and NC
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 9:08 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is almost 3 months since DDay for me (EA morphed into a PA). Backstory in "My Story", but the pertinent R path is this:

She agreed to NC with no pushback. I agreed to allow her to meet AP (alone) to call it off in person. I realize this was probably a huge mistake.

We both decided when I confronted her that we love each other and want to work on our M, to make it work. There was a lot of crying and apology on both sides.

At some point after DDay and the beginning of NC, I saw messages and call logs to and from OM on her phone. I also saw pictures which were exchanged, though she claims the ones I saw (timestamp matched) did not get sent (they were of her in the bathtub).

Mid-June, I discovered by checking call logs that she had once again spoken with OM on the phone. I confronted her about this, and she said she forgot to tell me as it was around the time we were a) celebrating our 9-year anniversary and b) discovered her mother was diagnosed with lung cancer.

Shortly after, she told me that he texted her and she deleted it. I verified this via the call records. Around this point, there was a Blocked Number which started calling her. I asked who it was (she was confused at first), and she said it was a co-worker who wanted to ask about her imminent quitting and starting a new job. It was a weak story, but I let it slide.

The Blocked Number records showed up a few more times in the call logs, and I confronted her about it again, saying I didn't buy it and thought it was the OM. She stuck with her story and turned it back on me a bit. I apologized for the snooping and mistrust.

We then went on a trip to Yellowstone (3 weeks ago), and it was great for us. I was out of town for a few days after that for a family wedding, but she went back home. She told me he texted her again but she again deleted it before reading. I verified this to be true (but I still had bad dreams that night involving the A).

Yesterday, she told me she bumped into a friend of his at the park (in the ~10 minutes while I was bringing the car from the parking space to load up our stuff). We were there for a friends and family picnic for her new job, and there were a ton of people there, so it was VERY lightly plausible. She said OM took a job and was moving (not sure where).

This piqued my suspicion, as it was only lightly plausible. I checked call records and see the blocked number yet again on the 5th. I go back into last month's statement and discover that all the old "Blocked NBR" records had been filled in when the statement posted - it was OM. She spoke to him again today while taking her sewing machine in for service.

Everything has been going so very well in our recovery. We are communicating much better, and we have gotten to the root of why the A occurred. I am very ashamed for my part in it, but we both understand that the A was NOT the right answer to my failings, and she is still very much at fault.

With the breach of NC and blatant lying (and gaslighting!) on top of it, I have no trust now. I don't even know if the appearances of the recovery of our M being back on track are anything more than just appearances. I feel as devastated as I did on DDay.

She is going out of town this weekend on a solo trip into the mountains (OM lives in the mountains, though not at her destination(s)). She had mentioned meeting up with OM on this trip in some of the journal entries I recovered as my hard evidence. I am doing all I can to hold back bringing this up to her right now to possibly prevent the return of the PA (if it hasn't already returned).

What should I do? Should I confront her with this now? Should I begin a 180 now, even though we have kinda started on the road to R? I know I have to be firm, however I proceed. The opening forming in my mind is, "You need to decide whether you really want to work on our M or not."


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are being lied to again, you already know it. You are going to be very sorry if she goes on this trip. Hi can you possibly trust her at all.
You cannot nice her back and she has broken NC a number of times already. You need a VAR hidden in her car. If she goes on this trip I would either show up there myself and surprise her , or I would contact a PI in the town she is gong to

The big question is what are you going to do when you catch her again. If the answer is nothing, then you should sit there this week end and stew. A WW in this situation should not being going anywhere alone. Who is she supposedly visiting?


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 11:58 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is checking out some mountain craft fairs (all valid), and the trip was planned before the A - not that it matters at this point.

I realize I'm being lied to about at least some things, so it may as well be everything. I can't trust anything she tells me knowing that at least some of it is a blatant lie.

A VAR would definitely suss out whether the PA is still active, but a broken NC already means the EA is still there.

I still want to save the M, but at this point I'm not convinced she does. I know I can't continue rebuilding without restoring trust.

As with initial confrontation, there are no good options here. I'm thinking my best bet, though, would be to confront her now and kill the trip (or kill the M, I guess...)


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Schadenfreude
♂ Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cannot save your M when spouse is still in the A unless you want to accept a three person marriage.

What is AP's story? Married,,SO? Any disclosure by you to that person? Why not?

Your,wife prefers to lie to you and cake,eat. Whether PA or EA right now hardly matters. She may be ready to bolt at the first opportunity.

Others have said over and over that second d days are horrible. That's what you have had..everything has not been going well in your recovery. She has convinced you, or you have convinced yourself,,that everything is fine. Not telling her no contact even on this mountain trip, means no marriage lets her continue her cake eating.

Re read what you have posted. It is so internally inconsistent that I must conclude she has successfully gas lighted you.

He issue is what are you going to do about it? I'd start with contact with OW or OSO before this trip.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 6:59 AM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How will not confronting her prevent her connecting with om? It's more likely that not confronting will lead her to think her A is hidden from you.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10083 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
crossroads2010
♀ Member
Member # 30213
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You want to believe her, but you can't let yourself trust her and from what you are saying, I can understand why. NC should mean NC...it is a small thing to ask in return for the gift of R.

Posts: 594 | Registered: Nov 2010
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You cannot save your M when spouse is still in the A unless you want to accept a three person marriage.

Agreed.

What is AP's story? Married,,SO? Any disclosure by you to that person? Why not?

Single and knows about me. I have not contacted him. I didn't feel it would be productive to do so, as he obviously has no honor or respect for marriage.

He issue is what are you going to do about it? I'd start with contact with OW or OSO before this trip.

I'm not confident that would do anything, as OM is as far as I can tell a POS and wouldn't care what I have to say. Though it may scare him a bit, the NC has to really start with my WW.

How will not confronting her prevent her connecting with om? It's more likely that not confronting will lead her to think her A is hidden from you.

It won't - that's why I know I have to confront her. And the more I'm thinking on it, the sooner I have to do it.

The second DDay is horrible - maybe moreso than the first. I don't know if there is even a path to R at this point.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If this guy is single, anmd you already have these red lights, you can bet the Om will be at this craft fair.

You either tell her you are going with her at the LAST minute. Just get in the car, take her cell phone away from her, and go for the ride. You will instantly be able to tell by her expression if you have caught her.

Or you cancel this trip. She loses the right to have any recreation without you around.

Do not contact the OM. He could give a shit about you. All he cares about is banging your wife. he is NOT your problem. SHE IS

You are getting classic behavior of Waywards now.
Do not put up with it.

And yes, you made big mistake letting them meet for closure. They probably too the time to figure out how to go more underground.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Schadenfreude
♂ Member
Member # 43075
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wasn't suggesting contacting OM, but his wife or girlfriend. In your situation there is no such ally.

She's in e A and trying to hide it.

No path to R when there is active A. Except agreeing to it or getting lobotomy to remove part of your brain.

You are new here . There is a poster named Bigger who distills wisdom for Just Found Out victims like this. I'll edit his words a little,

You are free to stay with me and begin working on our marriage. Or you are free to go on that trip/continue to contact OM. But not as my wife.

If she fails to respond, she's checked out and don't waste your time worrying about an R that's not going to happen.

Don't be Plan B for her, either. Read up on the 180 which is meant to help you when there is an unrepentant spouse involved. You detach from her. Makes you stronger.

See how wise Bigger is? You have to mean it 100%however or you have no chance. Ask the women here. Women respect strong, not sensitive, men. You cannot get her back by being nice. Stand up for yourself and tell her it's late in the 4th quarter for this marriage. She's got to get her game together or she will lose.


Posts: 892 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Midwest
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh boy. Wow. Time to blow the lid off this thing.

Your wife has continued her affair, and she intends to continue it this weekend. It is time to make a hard line stance.

Many affairs go underground like this after dday. The addiction is too strong. My husband thought they could "be friends" and she offered to just be friends and "stop the other stuff." Cause you know, that's not still an affair. *eyeroll* A lot of bullshit thought processes are in place during an affair. On dday it doesn't always magically evaporate. Your wife isn't the woman you married. She's living in a delusional world where she thinks she can have two things, you and him, and nobody get hurt. It's insane when viewed on the outside, but utterly reasonable from their fucked up perspective.

You have a chance to save this marriage if you want. No guarantee, of course. But it's time to blow this thing wide open. Don't treat her with kid gloves. She's a grown up, she can take it. You need to lay it out for her in very clear terms. 1. you know she's lying to you and continuing her affair. 2. this is unacceptable to you 3. she either stops, today, and again commits to NC, including a letter written by her and read by you and sent together, or 4. she moves out. End of story. She needs to be jolted back to reality, hard and fast. She needs to see the consequences of her actions.

She will lie and say this trip isn't to see him. It is. She will likely fuss and throw a fit. She may even throw out the "controlling" line. She will likely be angry. Offer her a cookie.

Balls to the wall my friend. In the meantime, and in the aftermath of this convo, read more here. There is more requirements to reconciling than you given her to date. Educate yourself and learn what this is going to take.


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Frustrated  Posted: 11:45 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I have been reading as much as I can on SI in the meantime - it's comforting and disheartening to read about so many others going through this. I'll definitely re-read the 180 daily and put it into practice. I'm not going to let this be more detrimental to me than it has to be.

I have an opportunity this afternoon to potentially confirm a scheduled meeting on this trip. I'll wait to see if I can add that to my arsenal.

Either way, confrontation happens tonight.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The only problem is that you may be able to stop this trip, but either way you know she is still actively in this affair.

What you really have to decide is what you are going to do about it. It should be the dealbreaker. i would be thinking about it. if you let her off the hook again, they will just take it further underground.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stay on it .
I think you will get your answer

Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good luck tonight, StrongBeard. Stay true!

(not to be confused with, Stay gold, Ponyboy)


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I confronted her yesterday afternoon.

She initially got defensive (regarding my snooping) , but I very quickly broke that down. It seems like she is actually registering the pain this extended EA has caused me - moreso than after the initial DDay and confrontation. I believe there is genuine remorse for what she has done to me. She expressed a great deal of anger at herself for continuing to screw things up.

She maintains that she has not seen him - just talked. I have no hard evidence either way, though, so I will chalk that one up to being possible and not dwell on it.

I think she understands that this continued "friendship" is in fact still a continuation of the EA. She has agreed to write an NC letter which I will read before we mail to him.

And the trip this weekend is cancelled.

I feel good about how I was yesterday; I kept myself composed in the face of my emotions and hers (though I found myself some space last night to break down). I have been careful to not initiate conversation about the M (#19). I will continue the 180, and continue improving myself as we really work toward R this time.

Thanks for all the support, guys. It has definitely helped me through a dark time.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strong Beard

So she did or did not admit she was planning to meet him this week end?? Did your snooping uncover that???

Glad you feel better . Hope you stay in super alert mode and I hope the answer to my above question that the solo trip was not a planned in person encounter.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
Rebreather
♀ Member
Member # 30817
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good job! I hope this is a real turning point for her!


Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Recovering.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 6442 | Registered: Jan 2011
StrongBeard
♂ New Member
Member # 44027
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Badhurt: My snooping did not uncover whether there was a planned meeting with the trip. She maintained that there wasn't one when questioned.

I am definitely still in super-alert mode, though, and will be for some time. I'm hopeful this is a real turning point, too. I feel confident that she is genuinely very remorseful now and understands the gravity of her continued EA. She's requested I cancel a tentatively planned trip early next month to prevent me from worrying about her home alone while I am out of town, so it appears she is more sensitive to my thoughts and feelings, especially regarding trust.


March 2010: WW ONS

February-ish 2014: Beginning of EA
March-ish 2014: EA morphed into PA
April 16, 2014: DDay
July 7, 2014: 2nd DDay of continued EA (no PA)
Currently: on the roller coaster, headed for R


Posts: 31 | Registered: Jul 2014 | From: Front Range
Badhurt
♂ Member
Member # 41947
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StrongBeard,

Glad you understand you can not believe what she told you totally. She has MULTIPLE offenses here, and she was still talking to him and knew she was going to be alone.

With her track record, I think you should be prepared to be in snoop mode like the NSA for quite some time. It is very easy for them to suddenly get it when they are caught because they have been surprised.

Unfortunately, then they start to prepare on how to go better underground with it.

I am not a techie, but some here may be able to help you figure out a way to track her phone and whereabouts.

Glad you are feeling a little better. Hope it works out.


Posts: 1097 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Eastern USA
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Strongbeard:

I haven't read the other postings. So I may be repeating thoughts.

Can you hire a detective to follow her on her mountain trip.

At least you will find out for sure if she is or is not still in contact with OM.

My wayward also continued contact three and six months after dday in the form of him allowing her to approach him outside, and him engaging her in conversation when she spoke to him.

It was agreed that if he saw her, he would simply ignore her. He did not.

Yes, this type of behavior sets us back to square one.

I only found out this information through anonymous letters sent to me.

If she is still in contact you are in a false reconciliation.

A real reconciliation can only begin once complete No contact with AP has been established.

If she is still seeing the OM, you need to contact an attorney to learn your rights and to perhaps file. Maybe that will wake her up.


ďIf two people truly have feelings for one another then they donít have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1130 | Registered: May 2014
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