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Reconciliation Post Reply     Print Topic    
User Topic: R - Jump in blindly or walk in slowly, staying close to shore?
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 2:34 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a rough day and being very analytical...As with anything everyone handles R differently. So do you feel you jumped in willingly with both feet, happy to keep the M together, thankful for each day and each other and focused on moving forward? Or do you feel you slowly regained trust while pushing through your grieving process and pain, question if you should stay or go, question your love for the WS, wonder if you'd ever be able to be happy together again? Or something in between the two? And regardless of the answer, where do you feel you are now?

I'm curious if the idea of moving forward and putting the As in the past has really helped people move on or if it's just a form of rugsweeping. MC really pushed me this week to move forward and not gonna lie, it bothered me and I think it triggered a huge blowup I had tonight (triggered badly, then got angry and smashed a frame...first time in months and months I've gotten that angry). I felt til we saw her this week that I've doing pretty well. I feel I'm doing my best to learn and grow actually. There are thing I do that I can't stand (like the anger), but all in all I am healing. She really made me feel like just delaying the inevitable by staying, that I won't ever be able to get over this and I don't believe that is the case. I have decided to stop seeing her because of this issue, so I am not concerned with discussing her - she was not the right fit, we're moving on.

I do question myself all the time though. I have never been a decision maker, I have a lot of FOO issues and I do question why someone would want to stay if they were in my shoes, I never thought I would stay but that doesn't mean I don't want to now. I just don't feel strong in my decision making post Dday. I don't feel strong in anything post Dday. So of course I question myself. I'm not able to see WH as a prize that was won. He was always mine, he never wanted out of the M or a life with these people. He is remorseful as they come and doing his best to help me heal, but some days it just feels like there is nothing he can do and others it feels like I cannot get enough of him. He is hurting so badly as well. His As were not cake eating, they were a result of very low self esteem and wishing he was dead. He felt like a low life, so he acted like one (his words) and there was never this fog where he felt the AP had anything to offer him that was real...he just used them to get the short term ego boosts and attention he 'needed', he punished himself in a sense according to IC in that he was disgusted with these people even when he'd meet them but he did it anyways. Even knowing all this, it is still traumatic and painful. It's been 11m since Dday, I want to move forward and not obsess over what he's done to me, but I am still grieving/healing. I don't think I could just jump in blindly and put the past in the past...his past is my present nightmare IMO, but MC doesn't seem to get that and it made me question if others really do just have the ability to push the A out of the picture and be thankful they have their WS still. Is this because there was a competition with the OP to win the WS's affection? Because in my case, these people never stood a chance and maybe it's harder to feel excited that I 'got to keep him' since there was no risk of losing him? I do love him, it's dulled right now because of all the pain he caused, but I do still feel and see my love for him - it's just not the same because of all the betrayal and hurt, and MC has made me feel like this is abnormal. I feel like we can R, but she really discouraged me into believing that my FOO issues have taken hold and made me into some sort of cynical, resentful bitter person. I don't see myself that way, but she fed into that worry because I have parents just like that, who I never want to become like so of course anything that seems similar to them freaks me out and I'm probably more sensitive to.

Sorry for the textbook and thanks in advance if you're still reading...obviously today's been a hard one on me!


Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
KatieG
♀ Member
Member # 41222
Default  Posted: 4:06 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you are right to question your C's approach. It clearly doesn't sit right with you and with all this unresolved stuff, how can you just move on?

Keep the focus on yourself and find peace. If you buried this stuff it would turn into resentment, so you are dealing with it to avoid just that.

So do you feel you jumped in willingly with both feet, happy to keep the M together, thankful for each day and each other and focused on moving forward?

I do now but that's a resent thing. Before, I was worried I was making a stupid decision and questioning whether he would ever work on his shit.

Or do you feel you slowly regained trust while pushing through your grieving process and pain, question if you should stay or go, question your love for the WS, wonder if you'd ever be able to be happy together again?

Yes - this, before he started to get it and I got stronger. I do a lot of self-reflection but I really do believe he made the mess he can clean it up.

where do you feel you are now?

Understanding more about the why, working hard to embed new thinking and behaviour, cautious of being too positive, more confident of my needs and deal-breakers, talking more honestly about how I feel (without fear), not giving up MC any time soon, keeping alive the fact we are still in R and not done, having a clear view of 'before' and 'after'.

I do know that I will be OK and hope that the relationship will survive. Its got to be that time thing again.


DD#1 - 6th Oct 13 - TT
DD#2 - 9th Nov 13 - Full disclosure
DD#3 - 12th May 14 - FOG lifted and in R
7 week A, 2 weeks together, rest phone and email - PA and EA

Posts: 449 | Registered: Nov 2013
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 5:32 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Or do you feel you slowly regained trust while pushing through your grieving process and pain, question if you should stay or go, question your love for the WS, wonder if you'd ever be able to be happy together again?

exactly this. And I don't feel badly about it. Still, at over two years out. If your MC is pushing you to put this in the past and move forward and it has been less than a year then I'd find a new MC. At 10 months out, after a rape and two affairs by my husband in 9 months, my IC said she was sorry it happened but it was time to move on. I never saw her again.

We say around here to work on yourself because no matter what, divorced or together, you need to do that anyway. And it'll make you a stronger person no matter what you choose.

You've been traumatized. Be gentle with yourself. The healing does take time. For now, forgive yourself for staying while you decide.


his Dday: 2/10 but TT until 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me (WW/BS): 48
him: (BS/WH)52
4 kiddos in mid 20's


Posts: 5050 | Registered: Dec 2010
CATransplant
♀ Member
Member # 39567
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sunvalley you have mirrored my situation to a tee. For all I know we have been walking in a reflective pool.

I understand your journey and thoughts. I have had to deal with the same.

I can not offer you anymore than my support from one who is on the same path.

I found that MC did not work for me because of the same issues you have described. I can't rely on advice from someone who is not experienced enough to understand my personal journey. I have found that everyone here on SI are far more qualified and capable of offering a larger insight into the possibilities and approaches available. Besides collectively they can see issues for what they are. SI members have a wisdom received from life instead of books and study which I think is better for the most part.

With that said, I will keep you in my prayers and hope that both of our paths become clear, peaceful, and bring us the happiness we should be experiencing where ever it leads.

Peace


Me BS
H FWS
M 3/27/12 together since 06'
A EA/PA 4/19/13/5/26/13
DD 6/12/13
Forced NC 6/13/13
MOW coworker-caught,TT for six months.

Posts: 117 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: United States
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I happily jumped in (which was unwise) and then after a load of TT, I equally jumped back out and watched for a bit. I needed to see some action from my husband first. I always wondered what giving 100% to R meant for the BS. Some times I just couldn't give 10%. I was an empty shell shocked person who was healing. That was much as I could do. I saw a therapist who explained R as a train. Sometimes we'd be riding this train together and there were times that I would get off at the station and watch the train go by for a while, deciding if I really wanted to get back on the train or not. It was ok to do that. I was willing to stop and walk away at any time, yet I still put effort forth.

I think it's a process that can't be rushed. It couldn't for me anyway. There was a time if I just read the word forgiveness I would trigger and get angry and throw the book on the ground. I'd be in a funk for days afterwards. I couldn't even entertain the thought of it. I learned to not push it. Overtime the word didn't bother me anymore. The thought of it didn't bother me anymore. And I didn't actively pursue it or give myself a timeline to achieve it. It either happened or it didn't. R didn't hinge on that.

There are thing I do that I can't stand (like the anger), but all in all I am healing.

I'm curious why you can't stand the anger? I got very angry and at the time I'd feel guilty afterwards. I needed EMDR, and it helped me process it. But now I don't regret that anger or expressing it. I didn't express it "well", and I regret that, but it needed to come out. And I got it all out so I'm not still carrying it with me, so that's good. There were a lot of emotions underneath the anger than I couldn't have accessed if I'd not gotten all that anger and resentment out of the way. R is messy. Anger is part of that messiness.

Sunvalley, what you are explaining is normal. At 11 months out you will still be obsessing about what he did, probably for quite a while to come. Don't let anyone push you.

((((Sunvalley)))))


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
sisoon
♂ Member
Member # 31240
Default  Posted: 9:21 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some Qs and thoughts -

What has your H been doing since d-day? Has he been honest (answering all your Qs), transparent, NC? Is he in IC? How has he changed?

If he's changed in ways you like, that's positive for R; if he hasn't, it's negative.

You've got to make a decision sometime. Are you working on this decision in IC? I think most people know where they want to go when they're 11 months out, but not everyone. Is your hesitation based on mixed evidence, or fear, or something else?
*****************************************

I'm concerned that you think of your H's cheating as something he did to you. That place you in a Victim position on the Drama Triangle (search on that, if you're not familiar with it). It's hard to make good decisions when you're stuck on the DT.


fBH (me) - 70 (22 in my head), fWW (plainsong) - 65+, Married 45+, together since 1965
DDay - 12/2010
Recovered, not yet fully R'ed
I share my own experience because it's the only experience I know, not because I'm a good model.

Posts: 10166 | Registered: Feb 2011 | From: Chicago area
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I detached and watched for two years before making a decision to jump in with two feet. I wouldn't recommend that for everyone, but it was what I needed. I think every BS needs to determine the best path for THEM. And not let an MC determine it for them.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4957 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all, I agree that the MC probably drove a lot of these feelings and wasn't the fit for me. I get that their job is to strengthen the M, but sometimes you have to strengthen the people rather than the M and that feels like the case in our situation. All in all, we enjoy each other's company and have always gotten along, but this is the major issue in the M now and yes it's in the past for him, but I'm still coming to terms with it...that makes MC a challenge for any MC, so I'm not blaming her entirely. I even asked her how I'm supposed to grieve (because she did recognize my need to) and move forward and she said 'you can't'...gee thanks for the help!

Sisoon - yes, he is remorseful, in IC, has become so focused on the kids and myself, NC is not even a question as he sent NC letters before I found out, he couldn't stand the AP even when he was in the As - he used them and treated them like garbage. I understand what you're saying about the victim role, it's something I'm always cautious of as I have a parent who is a 'victim of the world' and it's such a dirty, negative place to be.

I don't feel I'm sitting on the fence about the M, I feel like I decided to R long ago and I saw his hurt/pain from Dday so I am empathetic (our Dday was more of a full mental breakdown on his part than anything, a rock bottom of sorts). I do still feel overwhelmed that he did this though, and it's those emotions that drive me to feel unable to do this. It's not necessarily that he did it to 'me', since I know that he compartmentalized, but just the fact that he had sex for years with other people and all the hurt surrounding it seems so intense for me still.


Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sunvalley:

I am not sure that it is a bad thing that your counselor has challenged your thinking.

That's in part what counseling is supposed to do. It's supposed to shake you out of old entrenched patterns and coping styles.

With that said, if your goal is to repair the marriage rather than address your underlying anger, there are counselors out there who state that their primary goal is to salvage the marriage.

I think, if repairing the marriage is your goal, then it's likely best for you to find a counselor who resonates with your primary goal.

I do personally think that most marriages can be salvaged after an affair.

The question is at what cost? And is that cost worth it to you.

If it's at the cost of your personal happiness or sense of self esteem or being left with a sense of constant angry seething, then perhaps it's healthiest to address those issues.

Because perhaps addressing those issues WILL help salvage the marriage.

If not, it will set you free.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1220 | Registered: May 2014
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I even asked her how I'm supposed to grieve (because she did recognize my need to) and move forward and she said 'you can't'...gee thanks for the help!

Oh, that's a load of crap IMO.

It doesn't sound like you are sitting on the fence. It sounds like your MC was pushing you to reach a timeline they had set out and you reacted to that.

It sounds like you are process things, as it should be. Hang in there Sunvalley.


Growing forward

Posts: 1767 | Registered: Sep 2011
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't see that she was challenging your thinking. I see that she was pushing you to just move forward and push it in the past. Rugsweep in other words. Their is a certain amount of processing that every BS needs to do, and how much that is can depend on what has happened with their FOO and coping skills. May taken them months, may take them years.

It triggered you to be pushed to just move past it, and that was your subconscious telling you that this didn't feel right. Listen to it.


Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 4957 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She really made me feel like just delaying the inevitable by staying, that I won't ever be able to get over this and I don't believe that is the case.

Sunvalley:

Can you clarify or articulate why she made you feel that you won't be able to get over this?

Because I agree, it seems more as if she is encouraging you to rugsweep.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1220 | Registered: May 2014
Mom-of-4
♀ Member
Member # 29927
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with CA Transplant whole-heartedly.

I participated in IC and MC for about 18 months. More concentrated in the first 3 months though. It was very helpful initially because I had no idea how to navigate so much pain. SO- I think it was key the first few months. I just wish I had found SI from the beginning. I was past year 1 when I found SI.

After 3 months, the IC and MC felt like nothing less than other people attacking me. I was left by them feeling like I would never be good enough, that I wasn't a forgiver, that I was not compassionate and that I was dysfunctional, crazy, and cold. BUT- I wasn't that way BEFORE the A!!!

I was driven into such despair that I didn't want to exist. Once I found SI, I finally didn't feel like I was a psychiatric head-case. When I heard that it takes most people 2-5 years to process Infidelity I was thoroughly relieved! When I read about others obsessing over calendars, dates, the OW/OM, dealing with intense anger or intense depression, PTSD, I finally knew that I knew that I wasn't crazy! I finally found others who understood the magnitude of this type of trauma. It's different for all of us SIers, but there is always someone who knows how you feel, and has experienced what you are experiencing. That validation and understanding has been what has helped me immensely, not some paid professional who can't relate to my experience except second-hand by what they have heard or read.

I am so grateful for SI.

Thank God for SI.


Me- BS 42
WH-43-5 month PA- outed when I was 28 weeks pregnant with baby #4
Married-13 yrs
Children- 5 children under the age of 10
OW- his boss' wife, a "friend"

*Winners never cheat and cheaters never win*


Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The South
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all. I appreciate your responses and feel less overwhelmed and guilty for how I've been coping. All in all I'd say I've been doing well and moving forward. Examining my FOO issues and learning to talk about my pain instead of bottle up my emotions.

seethelight - she told me she sees many couples for As, that this is the 'worst' she's seen (although she never elaborated as how, I don't feel comparison was deserved) and that most BSs who chose to R simply put the As in the past and chose to move forward. She feels I'm somehow punishing WH by struggling, and fighting my 'walls' - I disagree, I think if I'm challenging my walls then I'm working on new coping mechanisms and healing. I told her that working on me first has become a priority and if that means working through my anger then I am not as 'lovey' with WH, but in no way have I jumped ship and left - I'm just struggling through these harder emotions. I told her I'm still grieving, so how can I do both and that's when she said you can't.


Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 2:41 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And dont' get me wrong, I think she's a good counsellor and has been willing to take on the As much more than the previous 2, I just think that she can't really do her job and heal the M until I'm healed and she knows that. I do feel pushed, but I also understand her perspective in doing so.

Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
Mom-of-4
♀ Member
Member # 29927
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sunvalley.

Just a thought…

So your therapist told you this is "the worst case he/she has ever heard". Really, we all on SI know it can get a whole lot worse. Why say this. I find it insulting and condescending, not to mention unprofessional in my humble opinion.


Me- BS 42
WH-43-5 month PA- outed when I was 28 weeks pregnant with baby #4
Married-13 yrs
Children- 5 children under the age of 10
OW- his boss' wife, a "friend"

*Winners never cheat and cheaters never win*


Posts: 213 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: The South
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 9:12 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Momof4 - I have no idea what she meant by that comment and I didn't pursue it, she literally said 'worst' and got cut off. She may have been preparing to say 'worst way to handle it' or 'worst type of response' or just the 'worst case'...whatever it was, I wasn't having it. I don't intend to go back, I don't feel supported there. I'm not one looking to play victim and not learn and grow, I have done a ton of personal growth in IC and she has called me out on things before, but I never took them personally or felt like it was damaging my recovery...I felt it was helping me, and sometimes we have to hear things we don't want to in order to move forward. The MC hasn't left me feeling the same, so I have suggested that WH continue to see her alone (she seems to really want to help him get to the bottom of his issues and I appreciate that much).

Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

...that most BSs who chose to R simply put the As in the past and chose to move forward. She feels I'm somehow punishing WH by struggling, and fighting my 'walls' -

I disagree, I think if I'm challenging my walls then I'm working on new coping mechanisms and healing. I told her that working on me first has become a priority and if that means working through my anger then I am not as 'lovey' with WH, but in no way have I jumped ship and left - I'm just struggling through these harder emotions.

I told her I'm still grieving, so how can I do both and that's when she said you can't.

I think you are still grieving and need to work on yourself.

IMO, a good infidelity counselor would understand and respect that need.

I can't believe she said you appear to be punishing your spouse, when you are clearly in pain and traumatized.

I do think you need to see another counselor for a second opinion.

Can you find one experienced in infidelity. No all MCs are.


“If two people truly have feelings for one another then they don’t have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1220 | Registered: May 2014
sunvalley
♀ Member
Member # 42952
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

there is one an hr away and she's very costly, but I am at the point of feeling like we need to see the expert on the subject and not just random counsellors so I have suggested it to WH.

Posts: 594 | Registered: Mar 2014
Topic Posts: 19

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