SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out
Still Cheating At Work
Its like walking through a room in your house every day, where nothing is moved. One day, one item is moved an inch... You KNOW something is different, but cant put your finger on it.
This is what the cheaters cant fake!
DG - I've felt for a very long time now that there's an easier way than spying.... through cool, calm and collected strength. It's time to put on the bad ass boots and lay down the law.
I've said this before on this forum:
Out of the blue, no advanced notice, tell her to sit down at the kitchen table. If possible, have all her toys - phone, computer, tablet, etc. - and have them in front of her. Calmly, let her know that it ends.... right.... now.
"Give me all your passwords. Everything. Right now."
"Here's a piece of paper. Right down the name of every guy you've slept with since we've been married."
Then drop the bomb. "You do this immediately AND agree to every other condition I make or the marriage ends right now - and it ends ugly."
I am perfectly fine with you looking her in the eye and calmly telling her that if she doesn't you will tell everyone - her employer, her family, her friends - and, yes, when the time comes, you will explain to your kid why mom and dad are no longer together.
Let her know that you don't want this to happen but that you are taking the first steps toward saving your marriage. Will she take that first step with you to do the same by being honest?
Make it clear that YOU hold the power now and you will NOT be made a fool of for another second. She's either on board or she is out.
Don't let her check her phone. Don't let her think about it. Don't let her have any way to delete mail, messages or anything else.
"Make a decision. Right now."
If she can't, or doesn't - you have your answer. And you can spend the $50 on a few drinks instead of a VAR. And I wouldn't think twice about picking up her stuff, walking to the front door, and send it out on the front lawn.
Good luck. Strength is key.
I tried that. She called my bluff. Going to have to serve D papers...
She called your bluff? It's only a bluff if you don't serve those papers.
You have your answer. File and serve
For your own peace of mind. Detach
I think the VAR could prove useful, although you cannot disclose the information you gather. Illegal recordings.
You need something to prove she in an active affair; right now she thinks you are helpless; she can cheat at will and you can't prove a thing. What she doesn't realize is that she is poisoning your future life together, but maybe she doesn't care. Perhaps she is plotting to leave you sometime in the next few years anyway.
Sadly I think sometimes these cheaters view their BS as having the status of a cockroach. So much contempt and derision. Bet your WS and the OM share many a laugh at your predicament. Utter cruelty.
One thing is for sure only you care for this relationship, and you are being driven slowly and surely towards separation.
I know it's hard to detach. You have experienced a nuclear bomb go off in your life and it was very sudden.
I am still in favor of a VAR. I bought one from Radio Shack for $80. It didn't work perfectly but it gave me 2 hours of information. That was enough. The knowledge gave me peace of mind, removed all doubt for me. Although I heard very painful things, I would do it all over again.
I put it where you put your sunglasses, because I knew he never used it, never wore sunglasses ever. My story is a long one and perhaps another time I will tell it to you. Will give you a laugh and keep you on the edge of your seat. I can laugh about it now. Velcro attached to under the drivers seat is a very good idea I would do that if I were you.
If you are serious about not having sex with her, and I wouldn't were I you, all you need to do is simply tell her: Look, I'm not comfortable with everything that has been happening and I need some space. No physical intimacy right now. I just need some time to think about things.
Then get up and go about your day. Very calmly, no further discussion. If she asks further you only repeat, I just need some space and time to think. Walk away, don't engage.
When ex and I were at the same stage you are in I made him sleep on the floor in the basement. Yep.
No regrets, DG. Do what you feel you need to do because when the time comes, you will feel peace about how you handled this. When I look back I have no regrets whatsoever.
Just don't ever tell her about the VAR. My lawyer made me promise to destroy it and never tell anyone.
I just need the info for me. WS will only admit to proof that she thinks I have. Now, she's taken it a step further by denying everything, even if proof is in front of her.
If I can get OM info and he's married, I will tell his wife. If he works for her office, I will tell the entire office, as well as the umbrella company that they are under.
Scorched earth. If I'm losing everything, I'm taking WS and everyone involved, down with me.
See if anyone with with a grudge, comes out of the woodwork.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:17 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
That's the correct attitude . You are changing from from "DeceivedMan" to "Smart Man With Balls" right before our eyes.
Keep it that way
My story, DG:
Ex lied to me about taking a business trip, and I put the recorder in the car because I wanted the truth. When he returned I got it from the car and took the dog on a walk and listened for a long time. I was deeply hurt, yet relieved to know for certain. No more doubt, no more of his lies to me.
When I returned from listening to the tape I didn't say anything, I just kept my distance. Ex was watching me closely and pounced on me saying, what is wrong with you tonight? You won't talk to me.
I looked at him squarely and said, I know, Mr. Salt. He said you know what. I said I know everything. I didn't tell him I knew about their conversations I just reported that I knew he was with mow and wasn't where he said he was and that he'd been lying. He asked me how I knew and I said that was none of his concern. I said I am done and asked him to go pack his bags.
He kept asking me how I knew and I said it doesn't matter how and that it was none of his concern. He asked if I used a PI. I said no. He asked If I installed a gps tracker in his car. I said no. Interesting it never occurred to him I might have recorded him so he never asked and I never told him.
I went downstairs and watched a movie with D. He went beserk in the car tearing it apart, trying to find a gps tracker or whatever. Of course there was nothing there and I enjoyed watching him literally tear the car apart, but find nothing.
A few days later he called and pressed again about a gps tracker or a PI. I said I did neither which was true. He said that he had taken the car to Car Toys to see if he could have it swept and a gps tracker discovered if one was there. They told him yes but it would cost $1000. Lol.
I still laugh about that. Even to this day it makes me laugh.
I needed to do it for my own peace of mind. I knew what they said to each other about me. I packed his belongings in matching luggage (black garbage bags) and put them in the garage, and changed the locks on the house.
And I never looked back....but I cried and cried from the loss.
And the story is even more funny.....I left a part out but here it is:
It was scary and stressful doing the stealth thing in getting the recorder in and out of the car without him knowing. Not so easy ya know. So I was trying to figure out how I was going to get it in the car as he was leaving for his "business" trip. Fortunately at the last minute he parked behind my car and blocked me in the driveway. Seizing my opportunity I jumped into his car and took off to the store....’to get a movie’....I tested the recorder, yep worked perfectly. Shaking, I put it above in between the driver and passenger seat where the sunglasses box is. Ex never used it. Risky but it was the ideal location.
When I got back he was freaked out and panicky, where did I go, why did I take his car??? I said, well, you blocked my car and I wanted to get a movie. Is there a problem that I took your car?? Oh no, no it's alright. (Can you imagine this exchange? Me studying him like a bug and him just trying to maintain composure).
So he took off for 2 days and we spoke on the phone like we usually did. Hi honey, how are you he says. I miss you and I love you he says. I will try to get back early he says. Sweetness and light.
So he gets back. Now how am I going to get the recorder out of the car I wonder? Then I hit on an idea. I took my bike to the shop so it would be fixed and ready for me to ride it for the summer. It was ready so I said, can we go pick up my bike from the shop? He says why sure darling! Then he stops at the gas station and goes inside to get a diet coke. Quick! Grab the recorder I think! So I grab it out of the box and throw it into my bag. Whew! Did he see me??? No, I don't think so. I am a nervous wreck!!
My purse is in my lap and we get home. We are talking in the car and we turn the engine off, but don't get out of the car. In the background I can hear something, sounds like the radio. No, the car is off, there is no radio. Ex says, what is that sound? We both stop. I say I don't know, then it hits me, somehow the recorder has gone off in my purse and it is playing back ex and mow's conversations!!! Lol.
I jump out of the car and say, I don't hear anything and somehow manage to turn it off. Go into the house, run upstairs, grab the recorder and the dog and say I'm taking him for a walk. And then I listen. I hear him call me and talk sweetly and lovingly to me. Then I hear him talk to my ex-friend mow and the both of them plot against me. I hear them make fun of me because I believed his lies. I hear them worry, but wait, did I know something? Should they cancel their mid-week tryst? Where was her H (also my good friend), was he following them to report on them and tell me? So they drove over to his house…nope he is there and not following them. The whole evening spent worrying about mowh and me discovering them. Then they went somewhere to spend the night together. Wow. My universe tilts on edge.
Why did I put myself through all of this ridiculousness? This pain? I could have just told him he wasn't being transparent and stopped the cat and mouse game. I did it because I needed to know. I wanted to know beyond a doubt. I was tired of being told they were just friends BS. I was tired of his games. And it gave me the courage to throw him out for the second time (false reconciliation) and really and truly not look back.
Looking back on it now, I had all of the information I needed at the time. Setting up the recording was really to confront myself with the truth. I wanted to believe him. I did what I needed to do, what was right for me. It was empowering because it enabled me to release myself. No more doubt, it freed me, and it broke me at the same time.
Mowh told everyone about them. Mow lost every single friend but one. Ex lost every single friend but two. I got the house, the dog, and a new life. And it's OK DG.
WOW, Salt! That was quite an ordeal. My greatest fear would be if she hit a pothole and it went off. I'll have to make sure the unit i buy has volume control or no playback.
I love the part where he rips the car apart!
I wont have any problem finding a good time to install and remove. WS started going to bed before me to avoid me, when she started the A. She got used to it. I am now going to bed later than her, to avoid her.
What a story. Thanks for posting. I dont have the ability to send PMs yet. I will after a few more posts. Thanks for going ahead and posting your story!
BadHurt, thanks. As long as I have a gameplan, i'm good. I'm sick of what my WS has done, and is doing. I didnt do anything to deserve this.
This evening while picking her up from a pool party, without any prompt from me, one of my D's told me she liked me more than mommy. It was (probably) because, when my wife detached for her A, she detached from the entire family. My girls saw the shift in the little details, late night at work every night, daddy losing massive weight...
They knew something was up. They often hugged and kissed me for no reason. Not like before, though. Even though I put on my best act to be the fun, loving, immature dad I always was, I think they sensed something was wrong with me. I lost over 40 lbs in less than a month.
Anyway, WS has destroyed the lives of the only three people in this world who would never hurt her. The three people who love her more than any other person on this earth.
She deserves to lose all three of us.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:44 PM, July 11th (Friday)]
So sorry to hear what you've been going through. I strongly recommend you start reading threads of other BHs on this site to figure out what measures to take to protect yourself. I recommend starting with Abbandondad and Allatsea. Also, start posting on "Betrayed men" in the "I can relate" sub-section of this forum, it's really great.
Some quick suggestions:
1. Carry a VAR on you at all times - to prevent her from falsely accusing you of being violent...
2. Get yourself in individual counselling!
3. Get your kids in family counselling! It will be beneficial and hopefully it will look positive in the eyes of the court in the case of a custody battle. If it's too expensive, try to find a subsidized therapist or covered by insurance.
4. If the kids are in school/kindergarden, talk to their teachers about the situation (you're divorcing etc.), ask them to pay more attention to them, to notify you of what you can do to help them. Also, some schools have counsellors who can talk to your kids. This will help them, plus you can use those people to testify on your behalf in a custody battle.
5. Also, there are support groups for people going through divorce - google them and join them. Find out if there are support groups that you could attend with your kids.
6. Start documenting your care of the kids, and the "care" of the WW for the kids. How much time either one of you spends with them, what they do, what are the good/bad things she does in regards to the kids etc., how much free time she could spend with them, but didn't etc. Also, try to write up what her behaviour was like during the affair! This is essential - other threads/BHs/attorney will give you more advice.
7. Read No more mr. nice guy by Robert Glover, it's available online in PDF.
8. Read Toxic parents by Susan Forward (online in PDF) - it will help you to deal with your childhood issues and it will help you to help your kids deal with them.
9. Read Families and how to survive them by Skynner, it's a great book.
10. Don't drink AT ALL, the last thing you want to do is get drunk, it would cause you lots of problems.
11. Talk to friends&family in real-life. Tell them about the problems, vent,... You need a strong social network of support!
Ok, so much thus far, I'm sure others, more experienced will give great advice. Best of luck
SEX and 180
This morning WS asked how my IC went yesterday, and how I'm doing (coping with A). This seems to be as a result of distancing myself from her. She NEVER talks about any aspect of the A, or how i'm coping. Weird!
I also jumped out of bed, when I'd normally wait there as long as possible to either wait for a chance at sex, or ask for it.
I told her (with a smile) I am doing great and she said, "it doesn't seem like it".
I think she was hoping for some explanation of my recent detachment. I said I was fine, and went downstairs.
I know many of you won't understand however, even though I suspect there's another or continuing A, and even though she just lays there, not participating (ever since admitted A), I still really really really want to have sex with her. I do feel some remorse after, knowing that she doesnt want it. I often regret it after. Sex has always been really important to me. And every inch of my WS's 44-year old body is perfect to me. I still desire her like crazy, even with this situation surrounding us.
It was INCREDIBLY tough, proactively avoiding sex with her. Oh man!
Last night she tried snuggling me, out of the blue. I pulled away. She tossed and turned with audible heavy sighs. At some point during the night, I rolled over and put my arm on hers (half asleep) and she grabbed my arm, wrapped her arms around it, and tucked it under her. When I realized what I was doing, I pulled my arm out and went downstairs for awhile.
I am feeling hatred towards my WW this morning, for completely f-ing up my life!
KEEP IT UP DG!! Your doing well. The more you keep doing this for yourself, the more detached you become, the less pain you will feel. Remember that this is about you.
That said, she's not remorseful. She knows she has you wrapped around her little finger. She's starting to see the consequences with you of her actions and she doesn't like it. Don't be surprised if she starts to up her game more in order to get your attention. DON'T BUY INTO IT WHEN SHE DOES!!!
Stay strong DG.
eta - typos
[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 8:00 AM, July 12th (Saturday)]
Now it seems you're getting the hang of it! But remember, the 180 is for you, not her. Her response to it is not the point. It's to allow you to detach emotionally so you can do what you need to do for YOU.
While it's not really positive to feel hatred, you haven't really indicated this before, which shows that you are detaching and starting to see things from a different place.
I'm no expert, but it seems to me that you are finally headed in the right direction. No sex with her no matter how much you want it! Beat that thing like it owes you money if you have to, but NO SEX with her.
Deceived guy make note, this has nothing to do with you. She's trying to maintain her balance and control as you continue your detachment. You'll note she hasn't actually made a move on you sexually, just seeking that physical reassurance that she still has control.
As the detachment hopefully grows from your end and you stop feeding her ego and trying to fix her, then the real tests will begin. She either will test if this new authority over yourself is real, provocation or she'll be ultra sweet one minute and when you fall for the bait, pull away again.
Absolutely do not have sex with her!! You will regret it afterwards as it will set you back after such hard work on your part.
Keep strong pal!
thanks. i really need your support. if i didn't have you all, i would easily give in. She just offered to get my pain meds, water, and something to eat. I declined and got my meds, myself. She seemed taken aback.
I don't know if 180 implies this, but I'm trying to decline any help she offers.
And I'm not doing this to get reactions from WS, but I feel the need to report her actions and responses because this is so out of the ordinary from what I've been experiencing with her. So far she has been acting exactly as you all have predicted.
So you think she'll keep getting nicer and more accommodating like a spider trying to lure a fly?