You'll know when it is real--as everyone has said, snot bubbles, sobbing, truly willing to do whatever it takes. Settle for nothing less.
Look Ė Iíve been around here since 2005. I have over 5000 posts. Iím a fairly well respected veteran with a good reputation as a result-driven hardliner.
I suggest you do this:
List what it is you want.
Do you want to reconcile?
Do you want to divorce?
IMHO your biggest issue isnít if you still ďgot itĒ or if you can make it financially after divorce. Your biggest issue is that YOU DONíT KNOW:
You donít know who OM is. It sounds as if you have some clue but you have no confirmation.
You donít know if itís over. You think it might be over with that suspected OM but you seem to think your wife is dishing it out to everyone and anyone at the office.
You donít know if itís over.
You donít know if itís overÖ
(Get it Ė not know itís over IS a BIG ISSUE).
You donít have accountability.
You donít have her working on her issues.
YOU DONíT HAVE WHATíS NEEDED TO MOVE ON Ė WITH HER.
Go back to my fist post on your thread.
The big difference to what I suggest and what others have suggested is that I am NOT suggesting you tell her that if she doesnít meet certain standards you will divorce. You have tried that and frankly Ė waving a big stick only works if you are willing to thump her with it (figuratively speaking!). In my suggestion itís not saying ďdo this or else I am going to do thisĒ Ė Itís ďIím doing this. If you do THIS then I might change my actions but with or without you I am moving out of infidelityĒ.
This breaks the rut you are in right now. The rut where you act, she reacts, you react to her reaction, she reacts to your response, you react to that responseÖ. And so on and so on.
I'm dreading the next phase that everyone told me would most likely happen; after a long enough period of me being distant and unresponsive to her butt-kissing, she will lash out.
I need strength, people. I know I sound like a broken record however, this is so hard. I talked to my IC (just stated) about potentially going on something like Zoloft.
i may not be effective in communicating the way i'm laying this out, but there is a clear goal;
R if she can be transparent and spill the beans, D if she can't.
i'm not going to just react though. i need to do this methodically. i love my W, and this is the most important situation in my life. The 180, is so i'm not completely destroyed if she chooses D over R.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:16 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
you will see her real demeanor after.
you need to shock her with being served.
only then you will you begin to see her true actions without any influence from the 180.
and bigger is right about a plan.
And your plan must have steps past her getting served.
Stay 5 steps ahead of her. It is that shock & awe approach that could possible save your marriage.
If you feel inclined to do so after you have all the truth.
You have not even reached the anger stage yet.
When you refuse sex and apply the 180 she is losing her control, hence the affection in an attempt to get that control back. You refusing sex is very alarming to her, because in her opinion that is your achilles heel. Most of her power over you derives from your intense need for sex.
This isn't love she is demonstrating through all these hugs and kisses; its an attempt to reestablish control over you so she can continue cake-eating. A cynical act of greed. On one hand she has her family and comfortable life with you; and then the is the exciting liaisons with OM's which boost her ego and make her feel powerful. She is not going to feel remorse or empathize with your pain because she is focussed on her own needs. No apparent conscience and I don't know how you are going to get this woman to acquire one.
I'd be lying if I said that I didn't want R. That would be a dream come true.
I'm working really hard to maintain distance, so i can move forward if that doesn't happen. This might be easy for others, and maybe most people don't understand my wanting sex from WW, even with these terrible circumstances, but I'm just being honest. I want to have sex with her even though i know how terrible I'll feel, afterwards.
I'M NOT having sex with her, though. It's been a week so far. I'm following the 180 plan, to the best of my ability. So far I have not given in to the illusion that WW cares. I know she's cake-eating. And it sucks, and I hate it, and it hurts...
i agree that my WW's A(s) is cake-eating.
You need to get her out of the fantasy of an affair.
Affairs are easy, phony and too exciting. You have to make her affair(s) a living hell!
No more fun, no more excitement and no more easy.
I don't think you have even entered the anger phase yet. With more evidence, the OM name and if there are more and certainly if you were to ever see the things she texts and emails, you would most likely hit the anger stage.
The anger stage combined with action can be empowering. The anger stage with inaction can lead to serious depression.
Seeing your lawyer will give you more power back along with the 180.
She referenced the affair again twice this morning. That could be a good sign, usually, a WS will NOT reference the affair at all if they are still having one.
On the other hand, if she is not having an affair, why wont she let you see her electronics.
She is about to stubborn herself right into a nasty divorce.
Legal papers sure as hell should prove to her that you are very serious and not just avoiding her.
You need the names of the OM. You need to know what has gone on and what is going on.
Her being so nice to you makes me think her affairs were not emotional type affairs, I usually dont read on here of emotions for the AP and being nice to the BS at the same time.
In a physical affair, yes the WS can be nice to the BS.
Can you take the kids out on your own today without her?
i know that these acts of caring are simply strands of a spiderweb to keep me pacified.
i haven't given in, yet. I've even turned down every attempt by WW to help me.
She offers to cook a meal; 'no thanks, i'll get a yogurt',
she offers to type my paper for me because my right hand is out of commission; 'no thanks, i can manage'.
She offers to get a glass of water; 'no thanks, I'll get it'
She offers sex; 'no, thanks'... no explanation for that one... just a no.
That's why we've been so steadfast in telling you to 180 and file. Not because we want to see you divorce, but because we all know that if they aren't instantly remorseful (or closely thereafter) it is likely going to take a major act to possibly turn the tide.
For what it is worth, I think you are doing great. You do have a purpose, and right now, that purpose is wrapping your mind around the gigantic ball of shit your wife has served you.
Its more of a gesture to you that her communication devices are now available for examination, but she'll probably get a burner phone etc and find other avenues to satisfy her requirements.
Overall your problem remains the same - how to get your wife to respect you and care about your needs and opinions. There is unlikely to be any remorse until she is faced with the end of the marriage and believes utterly that you mean the end.
In the EIGHT DAYS that you have been on SI I see great progress. Putting the 180 into place is extremely difficult, especially when it is counterintuitive to previous behavior. Sometimes we forget how awful the initial trauma of the first few months is. Hang in there, your doing great!
I have finally found my voice and it is good!
If you do not think your wife was actually working on business all evening on her computer, then she really is trying to humiliate and intimidate you to be doing that right in front of you.
That exactly and possibly trying to make you jealous to get you to come out of the 180.
I didn't join this site till months after Dday. I started the 180 naturally during the anger phase. But, I am wondering if she may be thinking with your increased usage on SI if you are having an A? There have been posts on here where the WS convinces themselves that what they are doing the BS must be doing during the 180 or anger phase. Has she made any references to you being distant?
In addition,she knows something is up so she may be covering her butt right now and getting her own ducks in order.
You will know when her A is over and she truly wants to R. As stated in previous posts and when she shares the information about her A (the whos, whats, wheres, and whens).
That is a long process for some. My fWH's last TT was 18 months after Dday.
In addition are you in IC? If not, will you go? It will help you immensely with detaching and feeling more self confident about being on your own.
Congrats and keep up the good work on 180. You have the right mindset...it is not about actions and reactions and reactions to reactions. It is about detaching yourself emotionally from a hurtful spouse. You write like you know that and it shows that it is working for you. Do not feel like you may be alone forever. Just keep remembering that any woman would be lucky to have you. Hence, why you WW hasn't let you go and is stringing you along. She knows she has a wonderful spouse or she would have simply just left. She is just broken and the OM is easy.
Just remember that once and if R starts....it should be nothing like the last one. This time she needs to really focus on IC and fixing herself.
Anytime you feel weak....take that energy and focus it on your kiddos.
My WW doesn't know that I'm on IS. She knows that I'm incapable of an A, but even if I was capable, I am with my girls 24/7. There is no way for me to meet anyone and no time to carry on with an A.
I don't know that WW is emailing or texting OM(s) while sitting here in the family room with the family. She did prior to DDay, which is why I stated that she COULD be doing it. The mere fact that it's a possibility is a huge problem. Soon, it won't be, though.
Thanks for the encouragement and not just 2x4s. I need both, equally.
I've got clarity. I understand what WW is doing. I'm only human though, and have to keep forcing myself to keep my distance, both physically and emotionally.
I can't move forward with demands to WW until i see lawyers and get an idea of what i'm dealing with from a legal, custody, and financial perspective. I'm not dragging my feet. I have a lawyer appt this Tues. If I could figure it all out today, I would.
In the meantime, 180 is helping me keep my distance.
When i talk about wanting to be with my WW forever, that's how I feel, but I know that her behavior, the odds, and the cumulative experience of other SI vets, make that wish, the probability of R, highly unlikely. I'm hoping that the 180 detachment will lessen the pain of the inevitable, some day.
Between my WW's despicable behavior, deception, A(s), etc, along with the thought of some day NOT being with her, I'm in a constant state of gut-wrenching pain. Despair, hopelessness, abandonment, betrayal, etc...
She caused all of this, however, i am responsible for my own happiness. I'm doing the best I can. 180 is gut-wrenching also. I've been doing it, though. I hope it gets at least a little easier at some point!
Emphasis have to be placed on baby steps with the 180. I'm still seeing way too much emphasis on what your wife is doing to you. 180 is not solely batting away her advances and being cold to her, you are actually supposed to be working on yourself and putting your needs and interests first.
You have your rubber band to snap you back to reality in the form of her refusal to give you full access to her "electronics"
If you're working on yourself and your own interests then it really doesn't matter how you answer, whether you're short with her or engage her in civil conversation, her actions will not impinge on your freedom to make independent decisions for your own good.
I don't know that WW is emailing or texting OM(s) while sitting here in the family room with the family. She did prior to DDay, which is why I stated that she COULD be doing it. The mere fact that it's a possibility is a huge problem.
I always found the someone answer to be a lie. Everyone has a name. So why the someone at work answer.
If my wife asks me who I am emailing or texting, I just tell her, whether it is a male or female coworker, I tell her who.
Otherwise, it looks odd in the real world. But "someone" is perfectly normal in the hidden world.
During the affair it was always "nobody" or No one, or "someone". During an affair, there is never a name except Mr. No one, or Mr. Someone.
Next time she asks you what is wrong, just flatly tell her that her secrecy is making you ill.
No conversation needed. The fact is spoken and the point should be taken by her.
I agree with your summation of "someone" and "no-one", though.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:59 AM, July 13th (Sunday)]