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Still Cheating At Work

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deceivedguy posted 7/14/2014 08:21 AM

I don't have proof that she is currently having the same or a different A.
As with the original, there are little details that cause me suspicion. And the fact that she refused to let me look at her electronics (iphone, work ipad, work laptop).
She flat out denies that she is having an A now.
I was doing fine all week with 180, until last night. Something snapped and I reverted to anxiety, fear, sadness, and all of those wonderful emotions I felt before DDay.
Today, I'm starting from scratch.
Tomorrow, I see a lawyer.

Tom67 posted 7/14/2014 08:28 AM

Exactly deceived she should be totally transparent if she cared and respected you.
Sorry bro.

Badhurt posted 7/14/2014 08:32 AM


Read the below from OK NOW.
Don't automatically expect your marriage to be over when you start laying down your boundaries to your WW. We talked about the need to regain her respect or she won't stop her cheating. You do this by being tough, strong and unyielding
You are in a fight for your marriage and your personal strength will be the determining factor as to whether you succeed or not. If your wife understands that you are really prepared to divorce, you've just about had it up to here with her contempt, and you have really reached the end of the road with her disrespect and blatant cheating, then she may very well back down. You would need to reach a method of accountability so you know what she is doing throughout the day; you might even insist she changes jobs.

Fundamentally you have to approach the showdown with ruthlessness; be prepared to risk all to win. When you threaten divorce, no tears, just a cold, implacable demand that she bends the knee or its all over and you will grind her cheating ass into the ground. Get fucking angry right now and convince yourself with a 100% certainty that you win this confrontation, by either dragging her to the divorce courts, or by her acquiescing in a submissive manner.

You can do this; the power lies with in you to take control of your marriage.

once you see the attorney and GET SOME PAPERS in your possession, you need to get as angry as you have ever been in your life. You need to feel the hurt that you have absorbed every day since this started, all of the crying, all of the pain in your gut, and all of the betrayal.

When you drop your bomb on her head, DO NOT tell her how much you love her and desire to R with her. Tell her she can do whatever she wants to now because YOU have made the decision that you are not living like this anymore.

Personally, in your situation, with as cunning as your wife has been and as weak as you have been, I do not think without a confession from her that you will uncover anything. She is smart enough that she may have a fake e mail or any of the other electronic tricks at her disposal, and since this is occurring at work it makes it even harder.
If she was using a personal laptop for all her games it would be easier because you could if you wanted to just grab it while she was sleeping or out and take it to a Geek Squad or other tech expert to find out what was on it. i guess that would carry legal ramifications with her work computer.
This has come down however to REAL SIMPLE. When you give her divorce papers,if you do it right, she is going to realize the game is up, and she either divorces you or stays married to you.

You WILL get the shitstorm of anger and accusations of your terrible performance as husband and outrage that you do not trust her.
That is all par for the course. EXPECT IT!!!
And in her anger she just may do something stupid like admit everything or run right to her lover or one of them.

You only have 24 hours to attorney appointment. DO NOT let the attorney give you shrink advice. he or she is there to do your bidding and the advice should be legal, financial, etc. The attorney is not an infidelity expert in all likelihood.

Now try to relax, and then start tomorrow morning to think of all the shit you have put up with and what this woman has done to you since this started, and rejoice in the fact that it is going to soon be your turn to start throwing the knockout punches.

craig2001 posted 7/14/2014 08:50 AM

It is so easy to stop the 180 and revert back to normal life. For one thing that is what you want and another thing, your wife is acting normal in most ways. It is just now that you realize she actually is hiding things on her electronics. When before, you never thought about that.

Ignorance is bliss and you were happy before you knew, we all were. But that is what being deceived is all about, keeping us in the dark.

Just don't ever let your wife turn it on you. The stuff about you not trusting her to see her electronics is nonsense and an attempt to make you feel bad.

No normal person refuses to let their spouse see their electronics. Just stay strong and have a purpose. And your purpose is to end this hell one way or another.

OK now posted 7/14/2014 10:24 AM

When she asks you why you refuse to initiate sex, you have an opportunity to present her with irrefutable logic instead of emotion which she will counter with nonsensical emotion of her own..
You want to paint her into a corner with commonsense facts.

1] She has in the near past had unprotected sex with at least one OM. You have proved that with your semen tests.
2] She has repeatedly lied, to the extent you rationally cannot tell when she is being truthful or not.
3] Unprotected sex can result in her infecting you with an STD, which is highly undesirable.
4] Logically you then cannot resume an affectionate and sexual relationship with WW without a guarantee that she is faithful. To do otherwise is to risk acquiring a nasty disease.
5] Since she will not provide that guarantee you are at an impasse and the physical part of your marriage has to end.
6] Without affection and sex, divorce is the next and inevitable stage of your relationship.

You are presenting your WW with rational reasons why divorce will occur unless she can provide you with a guarantee that she is currently being faithful. Her spoken word cannot even remotely be relied on, so you are putting the onus on her to supply that proof, not you. That proof is what you need to begin reconciliation.

Badhurt posted 7/14/2014 10:28 AM

And remember if you have the conversation OK NOW just presented to you, you have to have it WITHOUT tears and telling her how much you love her and want to R.
You are giving her the choice of bing a wife of she wants to

hopefulmother posted 7/14/2014 10:56 AM

If she isn't having another A, there is still a huge issue. The point is she hasn't fixed anything from the last one and you can't have a healthy intimate M with the rug sweeping she has done. In a healthy relationship the spouse would not insist on privacy like she does. Regardless of if she is having an A, she is being selfish and alienating you. She is not doing what you need to feel safe or putting your feelings first.

I hope you are feeling more peaceful this morning. Keep up the hard work and look into doing some hobby for yourself only.

When you drop your bomb on her head, DO NOT tell her how much you love her and desire to R with her. Tell her she can do whatever she wants to now because YOU have made the decision that you are not living like this anymore. [/bol


Also expect to have her blame it all on you. Just remember it is not true.

BTW: The great thing about 180 is that it is okay to fall off the horse. It will get easier over time and have longer periods before it ends. Each attempt makes you stronger no matter what.

deceivedguy posted 7/14/2014 11:03 AM

We've had sex since she admitted to the affair, but I really need to hammer home that the onus is on her to provide me with proof that she is not having an affair. The onus is not on me, learning to accept what she is telling me.

There have been no tears in front of her. I have an appt with a doctor this afternoon, to potentially get Xanax. Yesterday really set me back. I don't know what triggered it, but after the anxiety and private freak-out, I went back to fearing and dreading D, emotionally.
I need to quash that, if I'm going to maintain distance and build the anger necessary to follow through.

When I have this conversation in my head, I always tell her the onus is on her to provide me with proof, including seeing electronics at the drop of a hat, as well as checking in when i want her to, and making sure i know where she is.
I also tell her that she has an open door to R if she wants before D is final, but I can't live with secrets any more.

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.

Shockleader posted 7/14/2014 11:10 AM

Also, fully realize that right now you think you want to have her back and stay married, work things out, etc... even if she is the model of R, there is a very good chance you might say to yourself with some time, perspective, and clear headedness, that she can rot in cheaters hell, halleluiah to my new single life free from cheater scum.

I know I sure did. My cheater gaslit me so insanely hard, TT, lied constantly, you name it. When I did have her served D papers it WAS SCORCHED EARTH WAR by me with a spine transformed from wet noodle, to fucking Titanium, and it only supercharged her lying, anger, insane level of selfishness and cowardice. That was fine, cause the new take no shit me said bring it on you lying cowardly bitch. Anger will be your best friend, and believe me after the D papers are served, the show has just begun. Yep, I HATE my ex cheater, but it is not a consuming hate. I was in a very similar circumstance as yours, was very weak at times, wished for death, and it nearly killed me to see how my DD suffered. I cant say exactly when my wave of steel hard resolve came over me, but when it did I could have leveled mountains!

Time to get busy ridding her from your life, strap on your "two shits not given" attitude by what she says/tantrums/screaming, paint on an angry war face, and get on the motherfucking war path. You wont believe the wind that will fill your sails once you start taking no shit from a person hell bent on destroying you who has no honor. Good luck friend, we have all been where you are and made it just like you will.

P.S. As I said, I had nearly an identical situation (scary how similar), so if you might like to gain some insight, someone to listen, etc, please PM me and I'll call you... These cowardly bullies never win, and I'd be more than happy to help give you some ammo to defeat them.

deceivedguy posted 7/14/2014 11:49 AM

I need to go through this entire topic again.
Keep the advice coming. I was doing great until I cracked yesterday. I'm determined to get the fire back.
Have any of you gone backwards while making progress with 180?
Have you used Xanax to curb anxiety, or were you able to power through without taking a few steps back?
Most of you sound way stronger when you went through this...

[This message edited by deceivedguy at 11:50 AM, July 14th (Monday)]

craig2001 posted 7/14/2014 12:18 PM

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.
Then make sure she knows that is not her only option.

And let her know that the fact she had sex with some other guy and refuses to give you his name is just unacceptable.

Protecting the OM's identity from you is just plain disrespectful to say the least.

And the fact that she has this need to keep all of her passwords and electronics secret is NOT the basis of a close marriage.

She will turn that around on you, but tell her to forget it. If she feels the need that she has to hide half of her life from you, than that is not a real marriage.

You don't hide your electronics or passwords from her, so why does she have this need to hide everything from you. Well, you have already seen the answer to that question.

All of this sounds so nice and logical, it is amazing why so many WS's cannot get this through their minds.

solus sto posted 7/14/2014 12:23 PM

The thing about Xanax and other similar benzodiazepines is that they can pose a very real threat to sobriety. Because of this, it's really important to work with a doctor who's VERY experienced with both addiction and the meds (and other things) used to treat anxiety and depression. Your PCP is not the person to do this---you need someone who can really evaluate and diagnose, and then help you home in on the BEST and SAFEST treatment for you.

There are medications--for example, some of the antidepressants--that address anxiety issues without affecting sensorium. Benzodiazepines (such as alprazolam/Xanax, clonazepam/Klonopin, lorazepam/Ativan, diazepam/Valium) are sedative/hypnotic in addition to being anxiolytic and relaxant, so they are psychoactive in a way that differs from ADs (some of which can be quite effective in addressing anxiety, as well).

Antidepressants typically affect the release/uptake of the neurotransmitters that facilitate the movement of electrical impulses from neuron (brain cell) to neuron. They get neurotransmitter levels "back where they belong." (I say "typically" because there are a few ADs for which mechanism of action is not fully understood.) While they improve mood (over a period of weeks), they do not impair.

The same cannot be said for benzodiazepines, which work very differently. Their mode of action and effects can represent a HUGELY slippery slope for the recovering alcohol/addict because they have the same sort of immediate mood-altering effect that alcohol possesses. Abuse potential is enormous--they feel good (right away), and tolerance/dependence can develop fairly rapidly.

I'm not suggesting that anxiety should be untreated. It is, indeed, a medical problem that requires treatment just as any other. However, you have to be smart and careful, and work with someone who's equipped to really monitor treatment---and who can explore, with you, the various ways to address anxiety (not all of which involve medication).

Treatment may very well involve something like Xanax--but it really should only be prescribed by someone who's really evaluated YOUR specific situation.

I'd strongly recommend that you seek out a psychiatrist who is VERY familiar with addiction issues and who can guide you to the best option for your situation. You don't want your hard-won sobriety to be threatened by incautious prescription and monitoring. While most PCPs are more than qualified to prescribe short-term antianxiety meds to most patients, I think that whenever there is any complicating factor (in your case, hx of alcoholism), a psychiatrist is your best bet. S/he will do a more thorough assessment and diagnosis, is best equipped to select the meds with the best risk-benefit profile, and can best assess the effectiveness of treatment with you.

redsox13 posted 7/14/2014 12:26 PM

Honestly, I think anyone who has been through the 180 was pretty much a complete wreck in the first few weeks.

To detach from the person we love is alien to every intuition we posses. Which is why it is so hard.

You are doing great.

Salt posted 7/14/2014 12:51 PM

Put the VAR in her car tonight. Listen to it before you confront her with Divorce papers. Then listen to it again afterward. It will be very revealing and likely give you all the courage you need.

OK now posted 7/14/2014 12:52 PM

Your problem is fear. Fear of rejection, fear of being alone, fear of your daughters well-being, fear of financial hardship etc. But your wife has her fears to which are very similar to your own. Now if she had an OM to turn to for love and affection she would be much stronger, but it doesn't sound as if she does; she's really as emotionally isolated as you are.

In that case its a battle for control; she is determined to maintain her power base and you are not willing to put up with this oppression any longer. Who will back down first?
Make sure it isn't you or your fearful nightmares will come true.

You must take this confrontation to the point of divorce. If your wife wins she gets to humiliate you and strip you of all self-esteem; as well as the self-granted right to have more affairs.
If you win you get a wife who is ready to start the path of true remorse and rebuild this marriage. You are standing on the edge of a cliff, you just can't back away anymore; the only way is forward whatever retaliatory action your WW engages in. If she won't provide the assurance you need that no more cheating will occur then onwards to divorce. What other choice do you have?

MC_Jack posted 7/14/2014 13:09 PM

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option I'm providing.
^^^ What? You already have given her the chance to R and it is still on the table. To use Bigger's phraseology, you are moving OUT of infidelity. You have given her (and will again) the choice to join you or not as you do that.

I believe she is still in the EA and talking to OM. Many people out there think that cutting of the PA means they have ended the A. We know that it is not true...

Haven't gone back through the whole thread, but have you armed yourself with your version of Joseph's Letter? Assuming she does offer transparency, then getting the full truth as a next step will still be a big hurdle. My wife's own IC that she started with just before DDay and saw just after told her in no uncertain terms to keep all affair details a secret. There is a lot of reinforcement for this approach out there unfortunately.

Salt posted 7/14/2014 13:27 PM

Have any of you gone backwards while making progress with 180?
Have you used Xanax to curb anxiety, or were you able to power through without taking a few steps back?
Most of you sound way stronger when you went through this...

We've all spent time being weak, and being strong. We've all gone two steps forward, one step back. Sometimes one step back, then realizing our error, two steps forward. This is normal.

I went on AD's and used xanax occasionally. I was on very low dose AD's (half of the starting dose) but after a while I felt they weren't making me feel better, but worse. I went off of them and I have never been so sick in my life. I tapered off as much as possible, but spent nearly 8 weeks in bed. My Dr. didn't tell me about that possibility when he gave them to me to help with the extreme anxiety I was experiencing. I understand there is a small percentage of the population who have this experience getting off of them. Not everyone has this experience.

yearsofpain25 posted 7/14/2014 14:09 PM

Playing catch up on your thread here. You have been doing well. No one is perfect with the 180 and everyone has moments of weakness. You are human and do love your wife so of course this is one of the most difficult things you have ever done.

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.

So let her know that this is not the only option. That this is just one option to get out of infidelity. You don't want to be in infidelity anymore. Tell her she can join you in getting out of infidelity but until she meets your needs of getting out of infidelity, you are left with no other choice. Let her know that the ball is in her court and it's up to her to join you. Let her know that this is a great opportunity at a better life together if she wants to get out of infidelity. Otherwise, D is the last option for you to get out of infidelity for a chance at a better life.


hopefulmother posted 7/14/2014 15:19 PM

Without giving the chance of R, I fear she'll choose D by default, thinking that it's the only option i'm providing.

I would think that if she isn't having an A and loved you and wanted the M, then she wouldn't see that as the only option. You already gave her the gift of R. Now, you are stating your terms and telling her that it is about time for her to act like a loving respectful spouse.

She will just see this as the time to start owning her shit. But, don't expect her to start showing true remorse yet. Just regret that everything has blown up in her face and she has lost control over having you docile to the fear of losing her.

A big question is how you are going to make sure she is transparent? If she is having an A, then how will you make sure that she is staying faithful with using the electronic stuff versus the face to face time she has at work. Would she be willing to change her job? Can you out her at work without it totally ruining her rep?

We all have strong and weak moments. That is why it is called a roller coaster. *and most of us posting have been here for awhile*

Best of luck tonite and tomorrow. Stay strong. Just remember that you are tired of being treated like a nanny.

saveus posted 7/14/2014 16:26 PM

Hi deceivedguy.

I just finished reading your thread from start to finish. I see a lot we have in common (and, as others will point out, some things we don't). Just to say I wish you the very best of luck & will be checking in to see how things go for you.

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