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Still Cheating At Work
I‘ve been rough on you before because I don‘t really see a plan.
Look – I know my advice can be direct and harsh but there is a reason for that. I truly believe that post-d-day we BS have to ACT. Even with what seems to be a truly remorseful WS and an ended affair we need to take action. There are certain actions that need to be done simply to ENSURE all is as is said.
You responded by posting your plan…
But are you following it?
You outline a plan that includes an attorneys visit, doing the 180 and so on. But yet you are reacting to her actions and remaining dormant in the pain she is bringing… See my tagline? Right now it IMHO really refers to you. You remain in misery because you select to do so. Frankly and brutally I don’t see you taking action or following through on your plan but I see excuses for NOT doing so…
OK – I’m not so naïve to think that simply deciding to D will make you feel all good and fine. No matter what you are in for a long, long haul. But I do think that once you decide to take action on a path that leads you eventually out of infidelity you are making progress. That decision isn’t necessarily to divorce – BUT it is a decision to NOT REMAIN IN INFIDELITY. That in itself might lead to divorce.
IMHO what has been your biggest issue is the darkness…
-WW gave you the name of OM but is there any way you can verify it?
-Does this man in fact exist? Is it a vague “Joe in Maintenance” or did she give you a name that you can find on the company web-page?
-Is she sacrificing a pew to save her king?
-Is it that Russian guy and WHY HIM? Why would a woman in a good position fall for Mr. Maintenance?
I have doubts about your wife being the office slut. I have doubts that she’s servicing the men one by one at the cooler. It has to be a very sick environment to allow such things. Yes – more or less in any office you will find people willing to take that step, but generally offices tend to be manned by normal people with normal ethics and normal reactions… The office slut tends to become ostracized along with the office gigolos. Even more so in a mixed environment.
Office affairs tend to take place in secrecy. If anything then work-partners tend to keep their affairs even more discreet at work than anywhere else. It’s a rare case where HR or a manager exposes an affair. It tends to come afterwards – once the affair is in the open or has impacted the work in some way.
But… because of the darkness and the secrecy you are in you are led to assume there is another OM, more OM, ongoing infidelity and all that.
This in turn leads you to be suspect of every conversation. So someone caught talking to her MIGHT be OM. A mention of 10 inches MIGHT be sexual innuendo. But it could also be that gay manager in production talking about how the new machine isn’t working.
BUT YOU DON’T KNOW!!!
And that’s what’s killing you slowly and steadily. THAT is your key problem IMHO.
So you found an excuse to not use that attorney. So have you got another one lined up? Is that another 2 weeks wait for action? Two weeks of wondering if she’s offering sex you can refuse and listening in on VAR’s?
Buddy – ACT! Stop reacting!
Go back to the advice I gave you on telling her that you are simply going with the fact the affair is ongoing and you are refusing to remain in infidelity until and unless she complies with your reasonable demands.
Chances are you can get a relatively clear picture of your rights in divorce online. Chances are that you can get a consult tomorrow or today. Even if not then laws and procedures will ensure your rights and there really is no prerequisite to have filed to start working out of infidelity.
I like the post from stronger08; its essentially correct' you would almost certainly get the kids and CS/alimony in a divorce. The courts would relish an opportunity to demonstrate that they can act fairly and appropriately if the roles are reversed and the woman is the breadwinner.
If you rugsweep this past infidelity she will cheat again; there are too many temptations which she is not willing to resist. Sadly you seem to live in terror and fear; you just want everything to be normal again so you can resume your past marriage with an adequate amount of good quality sex. Which is, of course, rugsweeping.
The anger and fury are missing. Every post you make reeks of fear and worry about your future, and if you will lose the kids etc. There will be be no consequences for your WW having unprotected sex with the OM and therefore she will do it again.
If you cannot eliminate this all-consuming fear you are fighting a losing battle with both your cheating wife and yourself.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:08 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
As others have pointed out, you and NOT going to be thrown out by your wife without support in today's world, just like a woman would not be if situation was reversed. She is going to incur financial obligations and on e she realizes her world will change also she might act like a wife again other than when she wants to pacify you.
Stop worrying about her work computer. You will never see it without anything incriminating being deleted unless you guess the password. If she ever gives it to you , it will be after she has purged what she wanted.
If you read other threads here, you will see that MOST times, not all, the "gut" instinct, of BS is correct. That plus her already having cheated is the valid reason for your upsetting time, and which is why everyone believes something is going on.
Your situation is very difficult not because it is so unique but because you have a very cunning wife and you have been so "scared" of consequences, not her being scared.
Unless she has confided what she is doing to girlfriends , or talks to OM in car, it could be some time until you find out anything concrete and in the meantime you are going to ruin your health with all this anxiety.
If this becomes too much for you , once you have your legal options correctly lined up , you can ask for a lie detector test.
For $450 and an hour or so of time. All of your questions will be answered. If she has nothing to hide she will agree . My guess is she would tell you to fuck off. That will tell you something right there.
I know I keep repeating it, but to me the most telling sign she is up to no good was the sudden change in wardrobe. Married women do NOT do that unless they are dressing for someone or to attract someone, and that someone was not you.
Regardless of what you do, stop worrying that she will keep everything and you will be broke and homeless. If you have a decent lawyer that ain't happening.
[This message edited by Badhurt at 7:43 AM, July 17th (Thursday)]
I had been doing 180 and caved, but i did go to an attorney yesterday. i've been reluctant to just pick lawyers out of the phone book because i read horror stories about people getting screwed from bad choices of attorneys.
The meeting with the layer yesterday led me to believe that i would not be getting much money for support. because ive been out of IT for so long, i'm lucky to get a job at a helpdesk. i live in a fairly rural area.
Bigger & OK now,
I'm right handed, and just got out of surgery. It'll take 8-11 more weeks to heal according to the doc.
i know this sounds like excuses, but its all true. I can't see my 11 and 12 year olds coming home to an empty, tiny apartment, while i look for work. There is no guarantee i'll even get my girls.
If that lawyer painted a better picture i might be motivated to serve papers faster. he made it sound like everything was 50/50 chance of things working out in my favor, at best.
right now i feel like i don't have a lot of options. i'm trying to figure out what to do,
right now i feel like i don't have a lot of options
But you still have options and since they are so few choosing between them should be easier.
But then – choosing to remain in infidelity is a choice in itself.
I can't see my 11 and 12 year olds coming home to an empty, tiny apartment, while i look for work. There is no guarantee i'll even get my girls.
If your biggest fear is that MAYBE POSSIBLY (despite “normal” custody being 50/50 with prime custody usually with the main care-giver – you the SAHD) you will lose all access to your daughters then simply accept that your wife might be screwing around. Use condoms and ask her to be careful.
Once again – I am direct in my advice. But sometimes that’s what’s needed.
I'm so sorry to hear what you and your kiddos have been going through! I wish you all the best!
Have you considered contacting organisations that deal specifically with dads' rights and asked them for their help? Or at least if they could give you some advice which lawyer in your area to select? Organisations such as http://www.dadsdivorce.com/ and http://dadsrights.com/ ?
Also, try asking general divorce communities/organsiations etc. for the same advice! Try ever source of information to get some advice which lawyers in your area are good and which are not! I think it's ludicrous that you as a primary caregiver would not be entitled to at least 50% custody and at least temporary spousal support, especially since you gave up a lucrative job at the insistince of your stbxww (you have mentioned this to attorneys, right?)!
So maybe you have to find a shark/momma-bear/papa-bear type of lawyer, perhaps someone who also hates infidelity.
Understood. If i could find a decent lawyer, i would in a heartbeat. that is what i'm doing right now, trying to find one.
The wardrobe didnt change now. it changed back in dec or jan when i feel the A started. The only wardrobe issue recently was, she agreed to buy some business wear. She came back with a dress and a short skirt. On the day she wore the short skirt, i told her how i felt about it and she never wore it again. she also stopped wearing the worst offenders in her wardrobe.
I am worried that she is still cheating. I don't think she broke it off with the Russian maintenence guy, so i'm going to send an anonymous letter to OM's wife from someone who is "disgusted that her coworker is having an affair with his husband". I am going to name him in the letter and consider using my WW's first name. Either that, or NOT her name, but the company she works for. It's a huge office building.
Meanwhile, looking for a lawyer....
Hobbes thanks! heading to URLs right now
Well, if you can confirm Russian on the VAR, and it is after work, my guess is she is still seeing him.
Be patient with the VAR. it will eventually get you some information unless she travels in silence, which most people up to no good do not because they feel like in the car they can say anything.
obviously in the workplace she IS going to have conversations with men about something since she does not work with all women.
You just have to keep your wits about you, and i would take the suggestion of trying to find a "mens rights' law firm.
Being in a rural area, your choices of lawyers might be limited, but a men's rights lawyer would be great. They advertise all the time here, but I am in a big city.
Can you ask anyone for a reference to a good lawyer. Look on Avvo.com or Martindale.com for lawyers. Though, I have never been overly certain about the reviews on Avvo, I know they do not let negative posts get posted.
Just keep listening to the VAR. Which as you know can be more frustrating than not listening at all. I went through the same thing recording telephone calls and listening to the recording. It was always, what did she say. And then using editing software until I was crazy. I did get some useful information though.
I thought this maintenance guy worked at a different building.
And as far as I understand, the more attorneys you consult with regarding your situation, the less your wife can hire from that pool because of conflict of interest. So you are also depleting HER choice of local attorneys in the process.
Finding an attorney that is very strong on family law for SAHD would be ideal. If that attorney happens to be female, icing on the cake.
I say utilize the time in healing your hand to do the D prep work, intel gathering, and preparing to restart your career. You'll get your answers for everything soon enough. She already screwed OM, so the damage is already done.
In my SAHD situation, I sought support, and that threw her into a RAGE! Fine, I kept at it, used it against her, and the judge put a big ol' stop to her bullshit. I got a huge chunk of her 401k (which I made her a ton of $$$ being the manager of and can use w/o penalty), also could have dug into her pension (that put her into total rage), took all the stock portfolio, most of the savings, many of her retirement investments... Yep, all up front instead of a monthly check for 3-5 years.
Even in my backward ass local, they saw how she was trying to get off leaving me with nothing after what I did for her, and they called her on it. IMO you really need to push very hard with a good lawyer, who will advocate very hard for you that your wife's great success, was achieved by your help to take care of the family. Accept nothing less, and fight like your life depends on it because it does.
Please don't do a vague anonymous reveal to the OMW. She deserves truth, and that involves all of the information you have. You know the pain that withheld details cause; don't deliver them to someone else.
Further, anonymous letters are too easily dismissed. They give the cheater heads-up to better cover his tracks. They increase and prolong pain.
Tell her, or don't. Don't half-ass it with your own confused agenda.
DG, if you send the letter to the OMW, that would probably seal the deal on getting a divorce. R would probably not be a thought anymore.
Consider all of your actions and how they affect the future.
Right now, I think you have more to do than contact the other spouse. You have got to find out more, you have got to find a good lawyer, you have got to get your ducks in a row as they say. And you have to get a plan for your future.
From what Shockleader just posted, that is very positive for you in the event of divorce.
Why do you want to contact the other BS at this point. It will end the affair for certain, but then again, you dont really know if it is still going on.
Have you even confirmed it is this guy, without question. You sure dont want to be sending letters to the wrong person.
These POS WW's just love to bully SAHD's, and rage thinking they might have to pay up... Shit, my cheater had gone so far to avoid support, she had her first lawyer write, and present total bald faced lies... Here it is verbatim:
"considering the fact that each and every asset of the parties was acquired through the sole effort, energy and contribution of wife. After 23 years of failure to contribute financially in any way whatsoever to the marriage, your client wishes to receive alimony, this is unacceptable..."
Ahhh lying/delusional bitch, you seem to be 'forgetting' the $$$ I earned as a military officer (remember living with me in Europe?), the many other jobs I had before and after children, you know the ones I gave up to move so you could climb the ladder... All made so very clear with the stack of W2's, tax filings, and SS lifetime earnings sheet I presented, showing MY earnings to the penny. Yep, they are that pathetic, hungry for control, and lying is soooo easy for them. How fucking stupid are they??? VERY, cause they are fucking delusional!
Not to mention Craig, when I file for SS, I can use her earning as the basis, not mine should I not remarry, etc. The fear is paralyzing, but dealing with these remorseless, completely selfish cheaters who lie constantly pushes you along to end the madness... Yes, SAHD situations will most likely encounter bias/double standard, but that is the situation and you must put a boot on the POS WW throat, and demand to be treated fairly... There is hope!
Don't start sending letters to anyone now. if you were going to do that it should have been done right after it happened, and you do not even know if AP is married or if he still is your problem.
She will go ballistic if you do that. Not that that matters, but get her ballistic for something meaningful.
Stop worrying about the little shit. keep concentrating on finding a competent lawyer, and getting your resume together, and making some plans on how to move on.
So far, you have not said much about her staying out late or going places unannounced or being MIA for hours at a time when she would ordinarily be home. it also appears that she is not tied to her desk every minute of the work day so i still assume whatever she is doing it is during normal work hours. You have also not said anything about her staying out supposedly with girlfriends.
You have the VAR. You can also install a GPS on car that will tell you where she is driving to during the day. I would do that also.
If she is actively having an affair, it will surface eventually on the VAR or GPS if you do it.
I again say sometimes knowing you are watching like a hawk by 180 and detaching can make the cheater more careful. But I'll defer to the others advice to keep up with the 180, but it does not seem to be working yet. If she thought you were totally fooled again she might take more chances.
this is a mind and power game as well as an affair game. She is deceiving you, and i see nothing wrong with you using any tactic at your disposal to fool her.
I suspect his office is in the basement. That would explain how WW got away with sex during the day.
She works on 10th floor of the building. He might be bugging her to get together again, or they might have just had sex before she went on her way to her presentation.
Looking for another lawyer, continues
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:08 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
Your town isn't the biggest get consults from as many as you can.
Time to focus on your future.
He said something about waiting till something 55. i think (time?).The imagination is a very scary thing, and all WS's needs to understand that lying creates the imagination to run wild...they actually cause the accusations by lying. If that makes any sense.
WW made some joke "it should only take 10 inches back and forth, i mean up and down... '
"maybe we'll measure that later".
Your wife could have been talking to a maintenance guy about desk legs or a chair that sits to low.
You live in a rural area in Illinois. How many Russian men are running around town?
Im sorry, but if you heard the man outside the car flirting with her, and he had a Russian accent, then it's the OM. The chances of there being another Russian man who works with your WW are pretty small...especially in rural Illinois.