SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out
Still Cheating At Work
You live in a rural area in Illinois. How many Russian men are running around town?
Im sorry, but if you heard the man outside the car flirting with her, and he had a Russian accent, then it's the OM. The chances of there being another Russian man who works with your WW are pretty small...especially in rural Illinois.
I really wish you would listen and trust what people are saying here about your situation with your kids. You are the primary caregiver of these children and the courts will recognize that as they do the same for stay-at-home moms. You will get child support and most likely alimony.
Please hear what we are telling you.
We are all in similar boats. No one here is speaking without understanding yours fears and feelings. I'm still very much in the middle of my own mess. But I have one question for you to honestly consider "are you in love with your ww and marriage or are you in love with WHAT YOU WANT it to have been?"
I believe you really know the answer to that and wonder why you aren't rushing head first into ending this pain and finding someone who's worth having. IMO you need a job of any kind foremost for a lot of reasons. Self esteem for one. What man wants to depend on a cheating @&$& to support him? As a woman I'd rather live in a shack I can afford myself than rely on a cheater. Move!
There is nothing wrong with a man, or his self-esteem, for staying home to take care of the children, especially when one has JRA, which I am assuming is juvenile rheumatoid arthritis?
When he and his wife, together, made this decision for him to stay home and her to go back to work, I don't believe she was a "cheating ass" then. Things have obviously changed.
In my opinion, he still should not have to run out and get a job. He has a job, one that his wife begged for. In this situation, just like if the primary caretaker was a woman, he should be able to support himself and children until he can get a new career going. That's going to have to be decided by the courts.
I agree with cissi.
BUT, you do need to get your resume together, start networking, get on LinkedIn, get in touch with some recruiters, etc. ASAP. Get the ground work going.
I can assure you that your stories of skills obsolescence are overblown.
Right now, companies cannot fill their jobs because of a lack of skilled applicants. And you have the skills and experience and once you are brought up to date on some things you will be hired. Working with computers since the early 80s, I know how fast time goes by and what happens in those years. But I also know that companies are really looking for skilled employees in the tech field right now.
I think you should get a GPS tracker for her car as well. Then be patient with respect to gathering evidence. Allow her to think you are pacified...for now. Here are my suggestions for you:
1. Work referrals for an attorney. Set up consults. You should be able to get several and you will get pretty knowledgeable in your interviews to select a good one. Find the most high-powered you can and keep a record of each consult. Each one you have is one your wife doesn't get to have because you paid them first. Ask each consult for a referral for another.
2. Keep doing the 180. Allow your wife to think you are slightly pacified, but not her pawn.
3. You should be able to leave the VAR in her car for up to 3 days. I did and it still had plenty of battery left. Best if you aren't checking everynight.
4. Install a GPS tracker. Observe and gather evidence, quietly.
5. Sign up for some new training for yourself in your profession. It will make you feel more confident and that's worth a lot.
And listen to other SAHD's. You will have to fight for what is right for yourself but that will always be the case, has always been the case. Don't be intimidated. I did it too, DG. I had been out of work for 8 years too....
Did you ever think about hiring a PI to watch the Russian/worker and your wife?
I still don't see why you need proof. She had an A. She refuses to let you see her electronics, which no WS that wants their M and has nothing to hide would ever do. She is still having an A then. Plain and simple. Transparency = most likely no longer an A. Hiding electronics = having an A.
I get that you want to catch her in the act. But, seriously...her not sharing the electronics should be good enough to take more action. Give her the book how to help spouses heal and let her see why sharing the electronics is important so she doesn't blow a gasket. Not that it would guarantee anything. She will wipe it clean and take it further underground or create secret accounts.
I don't know- hire a PI to watch her walk to and from her car.
FIRST... I want to thank you all, again. I cannot even ponder where I'd be if I hadn't found you. I'm socking away a few bucks to upgrade my profile, just because I'm so grateful.
As for lawyers....I have not been able to get any referrals other than one who almost seemed lethargic. I can't afford to pay a lawyer for a consult. I'm going to have to start rolling the dice and set up consults with any lawyer who will do a free one.
I'm getting my resume in order and I'm going to ask my boss if he'd have anything full time for me. I do some Filemaker Database stuff for him, and don't like what I'm doing, but if it gives me enough for a decent living, i'll do what it takes. I really need to brush up on SQL and for the helluva it get A+ certified, for general desktop support, if I can find one.
I agree with Cissi... I don;t plan on living off of my WW forever, but I gave up my ascending career reluctantly. She had to ask and have a few conversations before I agreed because I didn't want to end up in this situation. That was 8 years ago. At that time, I knew that we'd be together forever, so I wasn't worried about getting back up to snuff when my girls were high school age (they are now 11 and 12).
I just had surgery on my hand. This has several implications. Filling out resumes for one. I can't even sign my name right now.
We are in debt and I don't have disposable income.
EXCUSES!!! I'm really not trying to use them that way. I just can't picture myself announcing D to my WW, who I'm sure will accept it. She controls the money because it's her paycheck. For summer, because I'm taking care of my girls, I make approx. $100/wk before taxes. I have to be realistic here.
I need to get my head in a place where I don;t give a sh#t what my WW is doing at work. That way I can concentrate on what I'm doing to get out of this mess. The 180 was working for me until I snapped, last sunday. If I can get back to that place, I'm golden. That way, my girls can have a normal life while this is going on.
Cissi, I can totally see my WW trying to claim abuse, and doing whatever she can to thwart support. The lawyer I spoke with, made it sound like it's not an automatic thing, and child custody isn't either. I totally trust the experience of all of the wonderful people here at SI, helping me. I just don't have any solid proof that I'm going to have my girls and support, so I need to set things up so i feel like i'm going to be somewhat secure. if i get a lawyer who can tell me what you guys are telling me, and has a good record, i'd be more willing to move forward.
That being said, my world is so freaking upside down right now, I could end up doing a 360 during this attempt at 180.
I hear you all. Some say run, some say get a strategy in place. I'm taking it ALL in. This is the toughest situation in my life, and I grew up in abusive foster homes! Boot camp was as tough as a game of BINGO, compared to this.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:05 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
hopeful mother, i can't afford a PI. I looked into it before DDay. If I had time to hang out, I could potentially drive there and hang out in their underground parking structure.
I am going to give my WW that book. We also have MC scheduled. I'm sure D is in our future, but I need to drag this out a little so my hand can heal, get some decent job leads, and find a good lawyer. So far, she is fully cooperating.
I know she probably won't give me electronics. I think she is probably still having that affair. I need the proof for me because this is such a big decision (D). I know to the SI vets that I'm doing more harm by dragging my feet, but until someone can give me 100% guarantee I'll have my girls and be okay, I need to put as much into place to have that happen, myself.
I am reading everything you all are writing. I'm trying to follow as much as possible. I'm on my second try at 180.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:06 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
Ok Deceived that sounds like a plan you going into PI mode.
What do you have to lose, NOTHING.
If you need my help since I'm closer let me know.
Thanks Tom, I could use an actual PI. know any who does charity?
OM works in office bldg basement i think.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 9:06 AM, October 5th (Sunday)]
First, keep a VAR on you at all times when this blows up. If she's like so many other WS's, she'll try to minimize her financial exposure in a divorce by making claims of abuse. Protect yourself with recordings. If she does call the cops, let her sign a complaint before you play any recordings for the cops. That way they have her for filing a false complaint, and cops love to nab people for that stuff.
Second, start getting yourself employable quick. Despite what Cissi, said, the court's do not treat SAHD's the same as SAHM's, despite what the law says they just don't . The sad reality is that family court's are biased toward women. SAHM's who are cheated on are looked at as victim's who need to be protected. SAHD's in the same situation are looked at as freeloaders who shouldn't be rewarded for their laziness and who of course got cheated on because they lost the respect of their overworked wives.
Your lawyer is right, custody and alimony are not a given in your case. It's sad, wrong, but true. Don't believe me? Go sit in family court for a week and see what happens every damn day.
She controls the money because it's her paycheck.I think we all wish we had gone to law school. Isn't half of her paycheck yours in the marriage.
Are you able to see where the money has been going? Looking at bank statements is a great way to find out about affairs sometimes.
I posted to you about two weeks ago and recommended that you get tougher with your wife. That you begin demanding and stop asking. I can see that things haven't changed in that regard - and, as a result, your situation hasn't changed.
I understand the desire to find out what's happening behind your back and to learn more about the affair. But, at this point, it doesn't really matter. What DOES matter is what your wife intends to do about it. If she wants to reconcile then she needs to take the steps to accomplish that (and, with reconciliation, will come the "story" you're searching for). But if she doesn't want to reconcile and simply wants to continue having you live in misery, then YOU need to make some decisions.
First off, you need to stop with the BS excuses of why you haven't met with a half dozen attorneys by now. Most have free consultations and you should have met them all. You MUST know your rights. And, btw, it's complete bullshit that you wouldn't get spousal support - a SAHD whose wife makes 50, 100, 200K per year will get almost half that in support. There may be variations state to state but there's not THAT much variation. It will be her job to support you through the transition and she WILL be ordered to do so - go find an attorney and get this hammered out so you can stop worrying about it.
Second, there is something in this world called a credit card. Yes, I know you don't want to incur the debt... but, you know what? There are times in life that you MUST! If you own a house then you've probably incurred debt - good debt. Apply for a credit card and hire an attorney. I know it sucks - but this is a life changing event you and NEED representation.
And lastly (for now), STOP being so accommodating to your wife. She cheated on you. Let her know that THIS is going to be how it is from now on - at least until either you divorce or you are more confident in her actions. She gives you passwords and transparency to EVERYTHING - and if she refuses, if she gives you any pushback to ANYTHING that you need to feel comfortable - tell her to get the fuck out of the house. Let her feel the repercussions of what happens when a Mom decides to have an affair and isn't acting appropriately.
Stop worrying about your kids - they are going to be fine. They will either have parents who show them what it means to accept responsibility for their actions and work through a crisis.... or they'll learn that their Dad isn't a doormat who let their mom fuck him over. They will love you in a small apartment, in their current home... and they'll love you if you're living in a shoebox. What is most important is that you do WHAT'S RIGHT.
Stop being nice. Make a list of your requirements so that you don't stray off course in the conversation. Then demand it. Strength!
A new 180
Last night I avoided sleeping with WW. This is crucial because that is my weakness....yes, even knowing she may still be having sex at her office building. That's how strong my codependence or her spell over me, or whatever the hell draws me to her, is.
I'm trying to avoid contact and conversations although that's become tough as well, as she's starting to talk to me like a friend, again.
You know the saying, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"? I feel like I'm doing that. As long as we are nice and civilized, she excels at being human around the house, and goes above and beyond. I want her to think that I'm moving on and trusting her because she;s careless and a terrible liar.
I am taking XANAX and an AD, to help quash my absolute and illogical love for her. Yes, even with the A. I don't mind being called pathetic. I have to earn my 180, and I will.
Stop worrying about your kids - they are going to be fine. They will either have parents who show them what it means to accept responsibility for their actions and work through a crisis.... or they'll learn that their Dad isn't a doormat who let their mom fuck him over
I don't agree with this. They don't know the situation. As far as they are concerned, we have our arguments, then we talk it out, and we work them out. But the last thing I need, is for them to worry about divorce because rushed it.
Before WW's A, I've discussed divorce with my girls because of their friends. My girls are scared to death of that. The reason I'm being nice right now isn't so my WW will hopefully change her ways, it's buying me time so i can get the lawyers, look for work, finish my current college class (which this situation has made almost impossible) and most of all, give my girls the status quo in their daily life.
I totally understand and agree with what you wrote. I've read the same thing from MANY others here. If I confront my WW again about electronics, or give her an ultimatum now, I predict she will not leave the house. Life in this house will be a living hell for everyone. Not trying to be a martyr, but I'd rather not inflict that on my children. I am working on another round of 180, to tolerate the possibility of WW still having an A. Again, I don;t have absolute proof that it's still going on. I assume it is, from clues and my gut, but I want to have proof, to help my 180.
Right now, my girls see us argue and make up, and everything is normal. If I were to give WW an ultimatum right now, it would be dysfunction, 24/7.
Again though, I totally "get" and agree with you. If there was a chance that WW would cave under an ultimatum, I would employ that tactic in a heartbeat.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 8:28 AM, July 18th (Friday)]
Do you have any close friends that aren't her friends to PI for you? Or, at best to watch the kids while you "run errands"?
If I were to give WW an ultimatum right now, it would be dysfunction, 24/7.
Unreal...the crap these WS unload when THEY are the ones in the wrong. I can't wait for your hand to heal and to get out of that situation. From your posts, you really need to start covering your own ass. You paint her as the type to get her way all the time and basically abusive. She is going to put you through the ringer. You will need proof that you aren't abusive and everything else.
Sure hope you reach the anger stage soon, for your children's sake. So, they don't repeat this cycle of dysfunctional relationships. That in itself should make you angry. You don't want them to grow up to be bully's like your wife or to be bullied like you.
Keep up the 180, find that lawyer, and be careful with that VAR. Good luck this weekend.
We all have our advice to you, drawn from our own experiences and the wisdom from others. We pass it on to you, but only YOU know best how to handle your situation. If hard evidence is what you need to give your conscious the green light to move forward then that is what you have to do. The risk is that the longer you wait for evidence, the more you subject yourself to your WW's gas-lighting and mind fucking. If you are strong mentally and emotionally to withstand that abuse then we are here with you. Just know there are examples here where the BS just does not move forward even with hard evidence compelling him/her to do so.
Also know that what's important while you do the 180 on your wife, you show your love and devotion to your daughters. You seem to be doing that, and continuing to do so will assure them that regardless of what choices you have to make, whether it be separating and moving out to going through with divorce, they will know that they are NOT the reason for you make those choices. Change for kids is scary. You being a lighthouse for them in the pending shit storm will be very important for them. Prepare them the best you can.
What is most important is that you have a plan and that you are moving forward with it. As for your odds on getting what you want in terms of CS, alimony, custody, property, it really depends on how good that attorney is. One of my friends battled through two D's with both XW's who cheated on him. He battled through alcoholism, losing his job, and holding on to his house, fighting for custody for all three daughters (one from first marriage and two from the second). He went through hell but he pressed on. He ended up selling his home to pay for his attorneys fee but now has primary custody and CS of all three daughters who love him very much. One has just started college while the the other two are not far behind. He is now dating a wonderful woman, has a great job at a financial firm (started from ground level handling support calls), and taking courses at a private University. This man turned his life around in a major way, but he had to hit rock bottom first. The attorney he had at the time was just a few years out of law school and didn't know what he was up against at the time but took on the challenge stayed by my friend's side. This attorney now practices family law for professional athletes. He's damn good and damn expensive. He was the first attorney I sought consultation. I didn't hire him since I went the mediation route but he was my backup if my D went full blown contested and he gave me tons of free advice that quelled a lot of my initial fears. All four attorneys I consulted tell me the courts now look more into what is in the best interest of the kids. Use that as your guide and do and plan what's best for them as a single dad would. Show the court you have you daughters' best interest in mind should you D.
The point is anything is possible and it depends on how determined you are to go about your plan. As long as your are in motion, opportunities just have an interesting way of appearing. It's the stagnation of a situation that does more to destroy the will and the spirit. You've already taken some very important steps forward. Just don't lose your momentum. Whatever you do, stay vigilant in your plan. Make sure you have some steps to follow once you have your hard evidence. Like I said, it won't matter if your WW screwed the OM in the past or continues to do so now as the damage has already been done. She clearly is trying to control you and the situation and has no intention of leaving you right away, else she would have already filed for D herself. What she wants is to cake-eat and her "nicing" you is just grooming you for more cake. You're in the process of closing the infidelity bakery for good. You will get to that point of laying out your ultimatum, but I understand it is important for you to be able to execute the consequences immediately if the requirements are not met. But between now and that moment, use your time VERY wisely and efficiently. Document the times she is out of the house without explanation and her behavior with you and your daughters. Get as many steps ahead of her as you can before you decide have her served. Buy another VAR and keep that one on you at ALL times. You can use your smartphone too and get a free app to record. I've done that myself.
as she's starting to talk to me like a friend, again.A friend, not a wife, correct?
You are her buddy as long as you let her get away with what she already did do and might still be doing.
Have you confirmed on your own who the OM was in the first place?
Keep up the 180, next time she asks you what is wrong, just matter of fact tell her, she will not be open and honest with you. If she cannot share her electronics, than there is no really friendship. Obviously.
You need to empower yourself away from the current problems. Working on job connections will start to make you feel in power again. Right now, she has all the damn power, she works, controls the money and controls everyone's destiny in that house.
And I am certain that is the main reason you feel like crap and are taking meds.
Start working on independence and you will feel better.
And do not settle for a lethargic lawyer, they are the worst. And dont settle for the first rah rah lawyer either. They have a tendency to get your hopes way up and then way down when they settle for something far less than you expected.
Are there any former coworkers, or friends you can discretely that have been divorced that you can ask about their lawyers.
WW doesnt go out. All of the cheating was at work. She goes to work and comes home, asleep on the couch by 9-10pm. Even on weekends if she goes to the store, she'll take one or both of the girls, or we'll all go.
Not sure how to prove I'm not abusive, aside from my girls as a witness. I will try to keep an extra VAR available, but can;t she just say I freaked out at another time that wasn't recorded? I can't imagine a judge listening to thousands of hours of recordings, unless I'm just documenting times when we're discussing things and it shows I'm calm, while maybe she's angry?
I don't have any friends in my area. they are all over an hour away, in the city. i have to be careful who i ask for lawyer referrals because all parents around here gossip. i only know one or two who have been divorced, and their kids are in classes with my kids. So far, I've got to go through the phone book. I've been looking for lawyers who have reviews online.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 10:07 AM, July 18th (Friday)]