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Still Cheating At Work
No. She's talking about how much it will cost her. All that money she loves to make? A good chunk wil,be gone every paycheck.
But don't plan on retiring. There is something called rehabilitative alimony. Usually for a set period or,while,you are making adequate progress retaining/updating. Child support disappears when the kids age out of it,,too. If it continues past 18/high school graduation, it's by agreement. And the payments are often directly to the school.
I think she saw a lawyer to find out if/how much this was going to cost her and her comment supports my thought.
I may have to apply for my own credit card. I can't imagine raising $3500. I have one relative who might help a bit.
Haven't tipped my hand yet, as tempting as it was, tonight. So tempting. She's acting extra nice to me all of a sudden. I think this is the 180 taking affect again. THIS TIME, no sex. Now that I KNOW she hasn't ended A, I don't even want to with her.
She will not go willingly if I try to kick her out. She will not give up the kids, I'm sure of it. I know she wants to live a carefree successful executive life now, but saving face and appearances are more important to her than anything.
I know I sound like a broken record, but it's really tough knowing that the A is still happening, and not saying anything. I'd LOVE to tell her that I know where she was 8:30am on Monday. My explanation of HOW I know, is simply that I've made a lot of friends with other BSs and they are loyal to the cause.
I would say, she cannot afford it... or does not want to have to pay a kind of alimony.
As for debt, this should not be feared for your circumstance. It took me 4 years but i settled with my banks and my credit score is now "good". Also i paid a service to help fix my credit report.
Debt is not the end if it means getting out of a toxic relationship... talk about chains and shackles. There is always a way around the financial even if as painful as settling or bankruptcy... in my opinion it is worth it to leave vs being chained down wasting even more years with a constant liar as your W.
I made ex pay for all my attorney fees. How else was I going to pay for them? I had no job, hadn't worked in 8 years. I used joint credit cards.
And you don't know what she is going to do. You can surmise at this point, but she is used to bullying you. The dance may change when she learns that you aren't the same person you were yesterday.
[This message edited by Salt at 10:30 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]
Again not beating a dead horse but when you file let his w know please.
You are right about saving face. Let me tell you something I remember my mother saying to some gf going through a divorce.
If he's not good enough for you, how can you think he's good enough for the kids?
She said that as advice on what others would say, but I had occasion to ask her and she explained the general female perspective on the issue to me so I'd understand divorce clients better as a very young and inexperienced lawyer.
Women, far more than men, still have the "social obligation" to be THE parent, even with joint custody. Or,at least to be able to say they are per divorce decree. Very hard to surrender even when they know H is better, more involved, parent.
[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:36 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]
No criticisms of you going with the majority.
I;m not even saying I know they are wrong.
Just saying its not how I would play your current hand.
I think taking strong aggressive actions works best in these situations.
Unfortunately, from all the infidelity I have seen in my FOO and with several friends who had the misfortune to go through it, the lesson I have learned is this:
Justice or 'right' have little to do with the outcome.
The aggressive and decisive parties have come out better at the end.
The indecisive and unsure ones come out with the short end of the stick.
It is a sad truth about this world, but the weak usually get devoured by the strong, even when they have justice or right on their side.
The number one piece of advice I have for you, no matter when and how you decide to confront and serve her, is to be DECISIVE.
Despite all her arrogance and cockiness, I doubt she is prepared for you to push an aggressive exposure and D plan at her.
She probably seriously underestimates you and sees you as a pushover.
If you unleash hell on her Fantasyland with speed and determination I would bet money you will catch her off-guard and unprepared.
Remember, keep the enemy off-balance...and yes in any D proceedings your WW is definitely your enemy (even if you harbor a small hope that R might occur sometime down the road).
Except you'd have to have filed for D to back it up when she comes at you like a screaming me me. Spoiling for a huge fight.
That means having the D papers at hand if your state allows a party to serve them himself. Mine does not.
WW : you no good SOB how could you do this to me and endanger my career and any chance of reconciliation ever??? Do you know what, OM would never treat me this way. Hw loves and respects me. Etc.
You: I have a guaranteed solution if you'd just be quiet for a minute
WW: huh? This can't be fixed , I me. I me me I. Etc.
You: I'm serious. Heres the solution right here.
Hand her the papers right then and turn your back on her. Best done when she can't immediately contact her lawyer who is probably on standby during office hours.
[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:55 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]
Knowing she has been to an attorney changes my advice completely.
Who handles the finances? Do you have access to her income information? I'm sure she probably has a separate account and is likely funneling funds to that. Think about her explanation--it doesn't make sense at all. And if it doesn't make sense, it's because it isn't true. Period.
So she has legal advice and likely has decided to act on her own. I agree with the advice to see what (if anything) has been filed.
I think you've got to figure out the financial part ASAP and then file as quickly as possible. You've got to legally disentangle yourself from her. She supposedly saw an attorney after a fight you guys had but OM threatened you? She is full of crazy and will falsely accuse you of everything under the sun. Liars lie and when backed into a corner, people do crazy, desperate things.
Take a credit card out, do whatever it takes to get the money. I personally think she has not even come close to showing you just how messed up she really is, and desperate people do all kinds of fucked up things. Take care of yourself.
She may be being nice because she is getting her own ducks in a row, not due to the 180.
In Ill to be a special process server you have to be 18 and not a party to the case.
Just for effect, he should use the deputies in the county she works at they are very thorough.
Might be a dumb question but why should you have to pay for your own lawyer? Joint money is Joint money I'm sure she plans on/is using it for her lawyer?
Or is it because you would like to keep the filing quiet for the time being?
Hang in there, DG. You've come a long way in a short time, and you're doing exceptionally well.
Among the many similarities in our stories is the fact that, after almost 18 months of false R and sundry other bullshit from my XWW, I, too, had proof that she was cheating again. By that point, I knew what had to be done (I had already lined up an attorney), and was in the process of putting together the numerous other pieces...but like you, I was really struggling every day with knowing what I knew while going through the motions of a normal, day-to-day existence, and watching her act the same way your W is acting.
While I agree in principle with my esteemed shipmate Dyokemm, what kept me quiet was the desire to minimize the collateral damage to my daughters. A nuclear strike, and the resultant fallout and counterstrikes, would have made a bad situation much worse for them. My decision was made – R was out of the question – and so I tried to prepare myself the strongest possible position for a reasoned, unilateral proposal to my XWW, backed up by the evidence I had, but with no intent to debate or listen to any more lies.
(PS: Be careful. The overwhelming need to confront ultimately proved too much, it turned out , and I broke. Well, sort of. I was at my desk in my home office, emailing something to my attorney, and my XWW walked right in and stood directly behind me, looking at the screen, while she told me about some errand she was going to run. She’d never done this before, and it was likely the effect of several weeks of a strong 180, and the re-discovery of some of my self-respect and a noticeable change in my demeanor that tipped her off something was up. She saw the email before I closed it, and asked me what it was…I could’ve easily played it off and lied – but I broke. Not emotionally, not dramatically – but I calmly told her I knew she was cheating and that I was filing for D. Oh, she still lied, denied, and got very angry and abusive, calling me a “fucking coward” and “liar”, and all sorts of other things that actually lightened my mood by making me chuckle at the irony. In the end, my girls were spared the worst of it, which is what I was most concerned about anyway.
If you decide to delay your confrontation, for whatever reason, realize that you’re vulnerable. Your W can probably sense something is up, and it probably won’t take much to initiate or escalate a confrontation that may blow your timetable. As such, it may be wise to minimize interaction with her as much as you can).
Good luck, brother.
[This message edited by jagged at 10:05 AM, July 23rd (Wednesday)]
I know she wants to live a carefree successful executive life now, but saving face and appearances are more important to her than anything.
If you are certain of this then definitely use it to your advantage. The cheaper way to divorce is through uncontested mediation. I'm going to wager she hasn't hired an attorney and already started D because of the cost and the family debt. Starting the D process on her part would incur those costs that would eat in to her fantasy life style. Also, I'm sure that attorney at the time told your WW as to what she would lose since your the SAHD. Regardless, the intent to D was there when she went for the consult. She may have thought of saving money aside first, but then as the A went along and she thought she could control you and have the OM on the side the cake-eating became much more palatable and dare I say "cost effective".
After Nuke day the best thing to do is to discuss D calmly, get the agreed custody/property terms written down on paper and both of you signing that document and notarized. When you get to that point of discussing those terms you can bet she will use her being the "mother" and "mothers know best" logic as leverage against you. Bring out the mental Judo and use her strengths against her. Point out her strengths and be in "awe" of them. Stroke her narcissistic entitlement for what she perceives as her "missed opportunity" in life and sell that concept in exchange for greater custody of the girls and greater part of the assets. Tell her YOU will take care of the domestic day to day drudgery of being a parent and that you will give her the gift and opportunity to spread her wings and fly as a successful single mom climbing the corporate ladder. She can still have access to the girls and sell it that access as at her convenience. Yes, it's bullshit and manipulative but she earned her way right out of yours and the rest of the family's respect with her manipulating everyone else regarding her A.
Now every time you want to bust out and tell her that you have proof she is still in the A, tell yourself that leverage is a very good thing to have. Leverage is going to get you what YOU want for yourself and the girls. I think "shock and awe" works well for that first A exposure, but your WW is beyond remorse and empathy and this is your second ride on that same merry-go-round. She's taken the A underground and this is going to be your second confrontation and it needs to be the most impacting. The objective is to pull the rug right out from under her so she can't have ground to argue anything.
The sex part is going to be hard, but even more difficult to try and justify to your WW why you don't want to participate. You don't want to give her any heads up that the real reason your wouldn't touch her is because she's still acting like a receptacle for STDs. All I can advise is that your really throw yourself into finding a job, improving your marketable skills, and fine tune your master plan for the future. Tell your WW you want to help with the debt and that your really need to kick it in gear and spend as much time and effort as you can to "help the family out". You won't have time for "intimacy" because you are now on a mission. I'm going to bet she'll be just fine with that because she has a fuck-buddy to divert her "needs" toward.
The OM strokes her ego of self image. You stroke her ego on her perceived control over you and the domestic front. That will be enough to pacify her and give her the green light to fuck up further and be more careless in covering up. She's going to think she has it all and that it'll just be a matter of time she can be open to you about your role as a cuckold. Remember, you are no longer a partner in her life. You, your girls, her family and friends are but pawn pieces in her narcissistic game of life. The best way to beat it is to remove the pieces, fold the game board and not play.
Even though I myself am divorced, I'm still of the mind that R is a possibility for anyone. But it all depends on the circumstances and whether or not the WS pulls their heads out of their ass fast enough before they do more irreparable harm to everyone else caught in their personal drama. Your M as YOU perceive it is definitely dead at this point. The M in your WW's mind has evolved into tool of manipulation. Even post D, there is a chance for your WW to have an epiphany and change but I'm betting that's going to require significant psychological reprogramming of her sense of self that she won't muster the effort to even try.
My story parallels yours in many ways. I agree with much of the advice but have to add that I would follow what Dyokemm said. This will be a fight with your worst enemy. Go for the throat and don't let up. If the situation were reversed i.e. she was a sahm she would not hesitate to take you down. You won't have a second chance once you agree to something.
She will not give up the kids, I'm sure of it.
Seems odd given this:
I have her yelling about how she never wanted kids to a friend of hers.
Maybe it's not the kind of thing people say out loud for fear of being looked down upon, but I've never heard anyone say they regretted having their kids unless they were obviously joking about it.
My kids are the light of my life. I couldn't imagine saying what your wife did to anyone.
We will all be praying for you that she doesn't fight for your girls. She doesn't deserve to be a mother or role model.
I suspect your lawyer has told you this already, but in case you don't know......
The biggest advantage, at least in my state, of filing first is that courts will enter orders for custody, visitation and support without a hearing. They are called ex parte orders. And they are court orders. The opponent must seek a hearing to have them set aside or modified or live with them.
Examples. You could,get order for custody and support. And preventing her from transferring assets except for ordinary living expenses. She knows money is a bigger problem for you, so if you get those orders she can't play the game,of starving you out.
That is one reason I've suggested you check the county court records.
You are getting free legal advice. Listen to as Schadenfreud
Jduff and Schadenfreude are giving excellent advice here. There are distinct advantages to filing first. You can always stop an action if you want to. Also, any attorney you contract with should be able to very quickly search public records for you.