SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out
Still Cheating At Work
1. See if your WW even wants to be married to you.
Like Cluless said, this really is step 1. All appearances from what you have posted indicate the answer is __________. I'll let you fill I the blank.
Consider the possibility that she is just DONE. My XWW had an A with her boss. Our son was 2 yo. Our daughter was 5. I was 100% sure she wouldn't want to Divroce! because of the kids and I knew what she and I had had together, a lot of which was good. Guess what? I was 100% wrong. Like your wife, my XWW JUMPED at the idea of Divorce.....almost showed excitement in her manner. It's been two years since the D and she's never had a tear hit the ground.
If you have not done it, go to my profile and read it. I cut it off but we did R after a few years.
The point is that ALL the signs were right in front of me and I was stupid enough to not see it as far as her dress and appearance is concerned. The difference is at least i had an excuse in that i was in a high stress job that had me in Marriott hotels almost 100 nights a year.
So understand this. The reason I keep harping on her dress is that no woman who is not totally mentally unstable leaves the house in a skirt or dress like you are describing is common UNLESS she is looking to attract MALE attention. She can make any excuse she wants to and let's see what the ladies on your thread say.
Your wife is either involved with other men or is looking to be involved with other men when you combine the above with her refusal to have ANY interest in doing ANYTHING to help you heal or make you feel safe.
SHE DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT. You are Plan B right now, and that may never change.
All of the people talking to you right now have been through this traumatic experience and we are still here and living OK. You can be too, but you have got to stop acting like a scared little puppy dog and face the facts.
You wife right now is CHECKED OUT, and once they do that your choices diminish and none of the options involve no pain.
Accept that reality and go to the lawyer, find out your rights, and do something to help yourself.
The pity party has to end!!!
Sorry for the 2X4 but you need it. it is meant to help you.
What Gman1 said.......read that post 5 times....print it out.....read it again.
I was like you....fear of losing my wife led to a lethargic reaction....for about a week. I had booted my wife. I caught her emailing him with a new and secret lovey dovey email address....from her parents house. I went fucking nuke strike. I told EVERYONE....I hunted down the OMs wife....when she knew...and her family knew.
it was over....bigtime.
absolute remorse set in.....and saved our marriage
Then she said, okay so lawyers.... how do you want to proceed?
It's a game of one-uppmanship. It's about control, getting YOU to back off on D and letting her continue to cake eat. If I were you, I would beat her to the punch and file first. If she files, she controls the D process and can drag out your suffering while she drags out her cake-eating fantasy. I've been through that. IT WAS HELL!!!
I don't want this marriage to end. Not because of my daughter's ( although they are a factor), but because, I don't want to leave my wife
Of course you don't want the marriage to end. We all didn't want our own marriages to end...at first. But you certainly do not want to be a doormat. You don't want to be hostage to this situation.
Now, actually talking (yelling) about divorce, the pain in my stomach cranked up to a new level.
I know she is probably still having an affair, but when it comes to divorce, I can't let go.
I know I look like a weak idiot, but I can't do this.
Look, she still is conducting her A. Look at her actions. It speaks the truth, and in VOLUMES. She refuses to be transparent to you. That is about control. You got confirmation from a lab with your semen detection kit - THAT IS YOUR PHYSICAL PROOF!
You want to know how NOT to look like an idiot or weak? Go silent and talk no more about a D with her. Go see that lawyer and start the counseling about family law and the work of preparing to file. DO NOT TELL HER YOU ARE DOING THIS. Do not engage her in anymore arguments. She will notice you being silent, strong, and determined. Once you file, YOU control the pace of that process. Have her ass served at her workplace. If her coworkers know who the OM is, I'm betting they will be more willing to provide you that name once they know your WW has been served. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news, especially if it can result in further damage, but if the damage has been done already (her being served) then they will likely feel that telling you what they know about the OM will help you instead of hurt you.
I'm scared to death of making this leap
We all were. Guess what? We all survived and are now from a position of strength to help you. Some of us are in R, some of us (like me) have followed through with D. The answer as to which way your situation will go will depend on what you do NOW to take control of the situation. She shows script behavior as your are describing. You are showing script behavior as the betrayed. This is why we are advising you what you should do. We've been through it, we've seen in each others own stories, and we continue to see it in every new member that signs up. The behavioral script is the same, just the situation and details are different.
I don't believe your wife is intending to divorce. If the OM is married he probably isn't available and there are the children's needs to consider. You probably would be the primary caregiver and she would have to pay alimony and child support. Also find somewhere to live that she can afford.
Filing for divorce however does enable her to sleep separately and end all marital sex. She can now reserve herself purely for the OM while being absolutely certain you lack the resolve to go through with legal separation. She knows you better than anyone.
I do wish you were not overly concerned with getting sex off her. Maybe thats the main reason you are reluctant to file; she would have an excuse to cut you off. You will soon lose her completely if you don't act soon. She doesn't have a trace of respect for you and feels justified in conducting this affair; unless you force her to choose her marriage or leave the marital home, she won't make any type of choice. She feels dominant and in control; the alpa 'male' of your household and it doesn't even make you angry.
You are in deep trouble and its not your wife's actions I'm talking about. Its your inability to do whats required to save your marriage. You won't swallow the nasty medicine that would make you better.
Then she said, okay so lawyers.... how do you want to proceed?
...and let me guess....not one of her tears hit the ground after she said this, or the next morning or on the phone to you this afternoon.
You have an unremorseful spouse. No remorse, no reconciliation.
If I were you, I would have already filed for D. But, I'm not you. You want to try and find a way to stay in your marriage. With that in mind, you have only one move left, and it has been laid out for you in previous posts. This is simply a Hail Mary pass to try and jolt her back into reality, at which point she will presumably become remorseful.
1. Expose the A to the OM's wife.
2. Expose the A to their employer.
3. File for divorce.
4. Communicate to your wife that these are the conditions that will make you consider halting the divorce process.
*. She mails a letter to the OM calling everything off. She calls him, on speakerphone, and reads the letter. You are present during the call.
*. No future contact, at all, with the OM.
*. Full transparency to all of her electronics.
*. She gets a new job.
*. she starts IC.
*. Etc., etc.
You need a new approach. What you're doing now is not working.
Sorry you're in this shit hole of a mess. It's a bad hand to be dealt. You now have to essentially bluff that bad hand.
The A she was having, was with a guy who works in the (giant) office bldg. There are no more calls to him on our Bill. He didn't work with her or in her office.
That was the affair exposed by the seamen test.
It's been a month since then.
She has gone back to acting normal, but I still feel like she's having an affair. I don't think it's the first guy. I think she's flirtatious and may be having an A with someone else. I have no idea who it is.
She agreed to wear more conservative clothes like before the A.
During sex, she doesn't participate. If I stand next to her and rub her arm or back, she doesn't do it back.
It's hard to explain, but it's not the same.
I have an appointment with a lawyer next week. I'm hoping they'll give me an idea of what I c as n expect. If it looks like I can make it financially, and can have enough custody of my kids, I'll serve her. If not, I have to work on rebuilding my career.
Going forward, I'm finished with sex with her. I'm going to implement 180 until I can afford to leave her.
She has been addressing my issues as I raise them (clothes, no overtime, etc). I realize this is probably window dressing, but I can't just up and go until talk to the lawyer and find out what my options are.
[This message edited by deceivedguy at 1:00 PM, July 10th (Thursday)]
Stop having sex with her, please. I can't imagine how awful that would feel, to only go through the motions. It is very, very damaging and hurtful to you.
Also, not seeing the guy's number on the bill does not mean she isn't contacting him in other ways or calling him at work, etc.
Denial is a powerful thing. The fear of being hurt by the truth can be overwhelming. But you will only hurt more later by clinging on to shreds of imagined hope.
Good luck to you.
Thanks. No more sex. I'm going to work on the 180 list while I seek legal counsel.
This thread has been brutal. I understand that I'm probably spinning my wheels if I think R is realistic.
Your wife is in the fog, a fantasy-land sort of place that most of us have never entered. It is a make believe place where nothing is real and there are no consequences, no judgment, no fear, no reality, no nothing. She might as well be on crack or some type hallucinating drug. It would be the exact same thing. She doesn't care about you, what she has, or even her children. The good news is that it is only a temporary thing. The bad news is that she is still there.
It is up to you to "shock" her back into reality one way or the other. She needs to leave her present employment but will most likely not do so until she comes back into reality. Whatever you choose to do it will most likely feel very un-natural and it will feel like the wrong thing to do. But you have to understand that you are not dealing with your wife right now. The person in her body is an alien and you must shock her back into reality so that she will return.
In my case, the OM was the son of a family friend. I picked up the phone and called his father and told him exactly what his son had done. His father was shocked and in disbelief. Seconds after I hung up with him, he called his son and blasted him. Seconds later the OM texted my WW and blasted her for confessing to me. When one AP blasts the other, A's tend to end right then and there. So within a span of ten minutes and one phone call from me, the A imploded. I also contacted his employer and anonymously posted what happened on FB for good measure so his workplace, friends, co-workers and all of his relatives instantly knew what he had done. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The first thing that needs to happen is for reality to come back for her and it is up to you to make that happen!
There are no more calls to him on our Bill.
Have you checked the data usage? Has it gone up since the calls stopped? My XW and OM went from texting to the iCloud when the shit hit the fan, and it was all there in the data usage spikes.
Someone else said it right. Your wife is NOT the woman you married now, and you are trying to hold on to that.
So she agreed to change her wardrobe. Did you ask her why she started dressing like that in the first place??? We know the answer to that.
In the overwhelming number of cases here, with behaviors like what you are getting, your GUT feeling is right.
Since she does not give a shit about you right now enough to give you an honest answer about anything, you only have a few options.
(1) you can continue to beg her to talk to you and be nice to her.- NOT WORKING !!!!
(2) you can use all of your ingenuity that you can gather to snoop on her and at some point you will find out what you need as far as proof- THIS CAN TAKE A LOT OF TIME AND YOU WILL BE IN DETECTIVE MODE 24/7,BUT IT CAN BE DONE AND YOU HAVE THE TIME TO DO IT
(3) you can see the attorney, present her the divorce papers, and one of two things will happen immediately. She will either say great, lets finalize the divorce as soon as possible, OR she will say this dude ain't fucking around any more and if i want to stay married i better turn things around. by turning it around i mean
COMMTTMENT TO YOUR MARRIAGE MEANING YOU
You will never regain your trust without her eagerly participating in these things so your marriage right now is essentially dead.
I personally think this fog shit is way overrated. The way you get someones attention who keeps daydreaming is to keep kicking them in the ass.
I know others will differ, but I reject this letting her grieve for her affair partner.
Now you choose which of the options you want to do. You are the one who has to live with it.
one last thing. Yup, this thread IS BRUTAL . But not nearly as brutal as what you wife is doing to you with your permission and acceptance of it.
We all care more about you than she does right now.
Don't rest your case on no more phone bill charges. As you can learn here, cheaters have lots of ways they can communicate electronically without leaving that obvious record. iChat is one, I think.
Two issues are paramount. First, does she want to save the marriage? Right now, in an affair, she probably doesn't think about that. Thus the need for you to make very clear to her that unless she complies with your minimum requirements (NC, transparency, electronic device access, no lies, answers your questions -- these are listed elsewhere on this site) you will consider her unwilling to work to save the marriage and will govern yourself accordingly.
Second, do you want to save the marriage? If she demonstrates no remorse/sorrow for what's she's done recognizing it as marriage endangering error she needs to fix, then you cannot save the marriage as you cannot save it yourself. You want a marriage of two, not three or one. Unless you simply reconcile yourself to your wife perpetually cheating.
Badhurt states it right: she doesn't give a shit and YOU ARE PLAN B in case the A doesn't pan out like she dreams it will. Actually, she probably dreams that you will simply accept it and continue supporting her.
Read up on the 180 and ask yourself if you are tough enough to implement it. Its for your own mental well being -- it detaches YOU from HER. If she doesn't like it, she'll resist by whining, complaining, arguing or trying to seduce you. DON"T LISTEN. Watch what she actually does, like NC, no lies, etc.
Reconciliation is possible; its just that you need to implement hard choices to drag your wife kicking and screaming to where you can begin the process. She is currently doing just enough to satisfy herself that she is being cooperative. That isn't nearly enough to begin successful reconciliation.
You need to find out just what is going on at her workplace. Put a GPS locator on her car, VAR in the car etc., what is she doing with her lunchtime?
Time to start looking for a full time job, but you might hold off a while if you are going to divorce. Staying at home is hard on men; they tend to lose self-worth and confidence. Their wives pick up on this and we have a downward spiral. Women don't respect men who have little confidence. Also the workplace is where you make friends, [or lovers in your wife's case], and you certainly could do with friends right now.
When she acts cold to you for no apparent reason, you really just feel like asking her, what the hell is your problem.
Life is really too short for all of these mind games.
Don't rest your case on no more phone bill charges. As you can learn here, cheaters have lots of ways they can communicate electronically without leaving that obvious recordWhen they want to take an affair underground, they can find 100 ways to do it. Especially with all of the iToys and electronic ways.
Does this OM work in the same city, I understand it is a different location, but this is in the same city, correct?
Does your wife have any time not accounted for. Late from work, excuses to be out at night, etc.?
I have no idea if she is currently cheating, let alone who it would be with.
i think the last OM was a booty call (my wife made the calls during the day). I believe she stopped with him.
HOWEVER, I think she is still having an affair. It may be with a coworker, it may be with a wholesaler (she works in the financial industry).
Again, I don't know for certain, but i have the same gut-wrenching intuition as the last OM.
For all I know, she has more than one OM.
If this is happening, its during working hours.
Because of the nature of her job, she doesnt have a specified lunchtime.
I'm going to start with a VAR. If I go GPS, it has to be foolproof. She already thinks ive hidden devices in her car before.
Right now I have to be patient. I just had hand surgery. I'm an I.T. guy, so that puts me out of commission for 8-12 weeks. There's no way i can get a job until i can use my right hand again.
I've also been out of IT for years because I made the bonehead move of switching places with my wife, 8 years ago. Financially, this is going to be an uphill battle. Plus I have two children who I love more than life, itself.
First step,consultation with lawyer next tuesday. IF I can, I'm still looking for another recommendation for a local divorce attorney. I need a competent attorney!
Of course I'm not telling my WS. I need to have a gameplan when I drop this on her. I predict she will be relieved that she can now live the life she wishes she could have lived when she was younger (she's 44). TYhis all started as she became more successful at work. And I gave up my career so she could go back to work. I loved being a SAHD, but it cut me off at the knees, careerwise.
Once I get a clear understanding of my options from the attorney, I can choose how and when to serve WS the divorce papers.
At least you will have a plan, which is a big improvement over when you first posted . You will find out the truth about her feelings when you drop the papers on her. She will either realize how serious this is or not/
She is obviously meeting these guy or guys at work during the day. And trust your gut !!!! It will usually be right
A divorce takes months.
But making that decision and having her served without warning her will show her that you have consciously decided to separate yourself from her infidelity.
A few tips:
Do not disclose what you are doing legally. Tell her nothing.
Serve her at work. She deserves that.
The day you serve notify her family why you two are splitting up.
"WW has dishonored her vows and put my health at risk by having unprotected sex with multiple sex partners".
That is how you do it my friend. Act quickly on the lawyer and serve her.
It might just give her the kick in the ass she needs to wakeup or she might just want her freedom at your expense and the kids expense.
You will know pretty quickly. Get the var in the car. It will be informative as your divorce moves forward.
Good Luck and get tough. She will remember why she use to respect you......
At least you will have a plan, which is a big improvement over when you first posted .
This has been the toughest decision i've ever had to make, on so many levels. If I wasnt on pain killers for my hand, I'd be drinking my wife's 12 yr old scotch all night tonight.
As brutal as some of these posts have been, most of them have been spot-on, in regards to my wife's actions and behavior.
I was scared straight last night when my wife refused to let me see her work iPad and laptop, then when i said i'd had enough, she called my bluff and said she did too. She slept all night in a locked bathroom. Not sure what the statement was. Maybe I was supposed to think she was crying? I know it was for show.
That argument made me realize that I had to get a gameplan together. I'm not in a position to initiate a divorce. If my wife cant show me her electronics, I need to move on. I'm going to let her know that after I serve the papers. I think she'll embrace the divorce. If she says I can see her electronics I will let her know that its too late; she'll have had plenty of time to wipe away the secrets.
Tuesday is my first attorney mtg. I hope to have more choices, but I cant ask divorced people in my neighborhood, as I don't want my children to find out until DDay.
You have it right. My guess is she has already deleted anything incriminating and with you being home all day she can easily take this underground at work.
The important thing is that her behavior screams cheating, and you know she actively was a month ago.
Give her a pillow and let her sleep in the bathroom every night. She deserves to sleep out in the hall or porch.
Once you serve her , she will start to realize her life is goiing to change with you or without you. You cannot control her but you can control your life and be able to look yourself in the mirror each morning without wondering who she is having sex with that day.
It will get better.
The people responding to you will be there and the advice you get will be better than you could get by paying for it
I appreciate it Badhurt. I simultaneously dread and look forward to being a vet, sharing my experience with new people in this forum.
For now, my stomach is in a knot and i'm in a fog. I'm in the same excruciating pain i've been in, for months. I want this damn pain to go away already!
thanks again to all, for sharing your experiences, advice, and insight