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User Topic: Puzzling Statement from IC
Camalus
♂ Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Something came up in IC last week I want to run by everyone. All comments are welcomed.

My fWWs A started while she was pursuing her PhD. To assist her by freeing up as much time as possible for her studies, I took over most of the household chores and parenting duties. I also had a full time job and worked 50+ hours a week.

IC told me the more I did around the house, the more fWW resented what I was doing and respected me less because I did not insist she did her fair share.

Most of the time my IC is dead-on but every now and then she says something that makes my head spin. This is one of those head spinning jaw droppers that I cant seem to wrap my mind around.

Can anyone help me understand this or am I trying to apply logic where none exists?


MeBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Camalus:

I can't speak about your situation, only you can.

But my IC told me basically the same thing in so many words.

My wayward had started a new job, and complained about the stress of it.

To help, I expected nothing from him, and took care of everything at home, and even gave him more free time (supposedly for men friends) to de-stress from work.

The IC said I was waaaaay more invested in the marriage than he was.

I was the giver and he was the taker.

I do think being too much of a giver can set the stage for cheating.

Like most people who have affairs, i bet your wife blamed you for the affair.

This is common and likely why you doubt your IC's words.

But even Shirley Glass in her book not just friends mentions that the people who have affairs claim they are not getting enough from the marriage, but typically, (at least as she sees it) they were not giving enough.

I took care of my waywards sick father. He did very little, even though it was his father. He not only neglected me during this time, he avoided his father because illness upsets him.

Yet, I did not have an affair due to neglect.

When my wayward waded into his affair, my dad had suddenly died, and my mother needed attention.

My husband claims he felt neglected. So when the Affair partner came along and started stroking his ego, he had an affair.

What happened to being supportive, when a spouse is having family issues?

Instead of helping out, my wayward copped out.


If two people truly have feelings for one another then they dont have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1147 | Registered: May 2014
yearsofpain25
♂ Member
Member # 42012
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Say what now? So the converse of what would have happened is that if you did less, made her do more, she wouldn't have resented you for taking time away from her studies and her A? Instead she would have respected you for taking time away from her studies and her A?

Yeah...not seeing the logic there. If anything she would have resented you more for not letting her do what she wanted to do.


25 years and counting of pain caused by mother's infidelity. Aftermath: 1 deceased sibling, 1 lost family, 3 lost souls.
"Each new day I am just glad to be alive and have survived all that I did." Ashland13

Posts: 2100 | Registered: Jan 2014 | From: Northeast US
redsox13
♂ Member
Member # 43391
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I saw a study referred to in the New York Times about a month ago. It suggested that Men who did too much were more likely to get divorced.

It sounded completely counter-intuitive. But very similar to what your IC is saying.

FWIW


BS - 45
WW - 43
In R for 5 years, still hurting but finally letting go

Posts: 252 | Registered: May 2014 | From: nh
Camalus
♂ Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

people who have affairs claim they are not getting enough from the marriage, but typically, (at least as she sees it) they were not giving enough.

seethelight: that makes some sense. By her not contributing she was not vested in the marriage. Add a manipulative SOB to the mix (no doubt running me down every chance he got) and the net sum was an affair. I can also see guilt may have come into play. With me doing everything, she was feeling somewhat guilty. Resentment would be a method of soothing the guilt.


MeBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
HeBrokeVows
♀ Member
Member # 43252
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the best things you can do in IC is when you have a moment like this, to bring it back to your therapist and discuss. This is when good therapy takes place. Don't take what therapist says at face value, go back and dig deeper with them to explore it.

Sounds like IC labeled a feeling of resentment and lack of respect on FWW. What is this basis on? Did fWW mention this? Is it IC's conclusion based on what? A statement like this seems out there unless it makes sense on what you were discussing. Ask IC to explore it deeper with you. That's when the real work of therapy happens (coming from a therapist herself here that's now a SAHM). Good luck, you are in the beauty of therapy stage!


Dday March 12, 2014. Found out my husband of almost 10 years was having an affair, first emotional then physical for 6 months.

Posts: 362 | Registered: Apr 2014
saturnpatrick
♂ Member
Member # 35989
Default  Posted: 10:30 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've heard this advice also, and I buy into it. I too was the overly giving spouse.

This is tricky because at first glance it implies that you can control what your spouse does. Really, a spouse who is getting waited on hand and foot should also be able to recognize the imbalance, so even if you were super give-y, your spouse still had an opportunity to address it instead of choosing an A.

Think about the 180. It is not designed to get the waywards attention, but often it does. Why? Why doesn't being super nice and giving and serving and doormat-ish get their attention instead?

I think this is about respect. When you throw yourself 1000% into serving your partner, you do less for yourself, and don't respect yourself very much -- and then your partner doesn't either. Of course, the opposite, 0% into the marriage isn't good either.

The important thing is to aim for the middle ground, and do it respectfully. "I will help you with some of the chores but I cannot do it all and I will still need help from time to time" says I love you but I'm not a slave. It says you want to be part of a team.


BH
I typo therefore I edit.

Posts: 194 | Registered: Jun 2012
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also buy into this, although it is about as counter-intuitive as imaginable. I read a study where the giver in a relationship has more personal contentment than the taker, lack of personal contentment = trying to fill the void = let's try an affair (for a broken person)

In the end, your broken wayward will use anything to "justify" or whatever their affair. They do not think clearly, so they'll find a way to "resent" you no matter what. Demanding too much, demanding too little, doing too much, doing too little. It doesn't matter, they'll justify it.


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 155 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Camalus
♂ Member
Member # 40199
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One of the best things you can do in IC is when you have a moment like this, to bring it back to your therapist and discuss.

Yes, we will be discussing this my next appointment. I was a for Situational Analyst for many years. Too bad I worked so hard to separate my personal life from my work persona or I would have discovered the affair while it was happening instead of years after the fact. Anyway, I tend to overanalyze things looking for connections where none exist. I always 'mull over' things said in IC then bring them up the next session.


MeBS age 61
Her -- WS age 59
Married for 34 years
One child, 30yrs

Her 'A' 1994(?) through 1998
D-Day 7/4/2013 Yes, I didn't find out for almost 15 years... but the pain is just as bad as if she were with him last week.


Posts: 118 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: Near Houston Texas
soconfusednow
♀ Member
Member # 40078
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At one point, I told my WH I felt like I gave 80% & he gave 20% to the relationship. He thought for a few minutes and said I think that's true. That's when I informed him "That's not good enough, I expect more now."


D-Day January 2013
prior EA in the 90's
me 50
WH 52
NC-several
last broken NC 7/2013 (hopefully)
Married 29 years
2 kids
Want to believe it's over, but is it really? Will I ever trust again?

Posts: 317 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: USA
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IMO, It can make sense if you remember all the shitty coping mechanisms and shitty logic that waywards use.

Take for example someone who deep down feels unworthy (fairly common for waywards). In their mind, to admit that they are unworthy might mean losing their spouse (the best thing that ever happened to them), so they deny it (even to themselves, because that shit is hard to deal with). But, those negative feelings have to go somewhere, so they are projected onto the spouse as resentment (screw you for being too good for me). This is small at first and possibly hidden; because part of them still knows its not really the spouse that is the issue.

Meanwhile, life happens (some stressor comes up) and the spouse steps up big time which shows just how great of person they are. On the surface the wayward may be appreciative, but deep in their mind this just highlights their unworthiness. This unworthiness then cycles back through the denial and projection back into more resentment of the spouse. The more the spouse does and the better spouse they are, the more unworthy (expressed as resentment) the wayward feels.

Eventually, the spouse is a constant reminder of just how unworthy they are (again, this is expressed as burning resentment) and the only escape is to find someone they are worthy of (an AP). Then, having an A just feeds into how unworthy they are (which again cycles back through denial and projection into resentment of the spouse) and pulls them further into the A.

*Disclaimer: the above is not meant to describe anyones A, but is just meant to highlight how shitty thought processes can lead to really screwed up feelings/actions.


Divorced...and moving on!

Posts: 416 | Registered: Jul 2011
seethelight
♀ Member
Member # 43513
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nomoreplease:

Well, your posting makes sense.

Still, if a wayward had an affair due to this broken type of thinking, that makes staying married to someone who thinks like this all the more frightening.

Being married to someone who resents you for being a good person because they feel unworthy seems truly hopeless.

I am not going to become a bad person ever. So, It sounds as if my marriage is doomed, if my own husband had an affair due to this type of broken crazy thinking.

I am not sure if this applies to my wayward, but it's a possibility.


If two people truly have feelings for one another then they dont have an affair. They get a divorce and they sort out their feelings. You are accountable for the people you hold hostage in a marriage when your mind and heart refuse to fully commit

Posts: 1147 | Registered: May 2014
idiot85
♂ Member
Member # 38934
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been told pretty much the same thing about my looking after my baby son- by doing so much I'm apparently showing her up/making her feel bad.

I understand the logic BUT I (think I still) think it's bullshit- however as of 5 mins I'm thinking what nomoreplease said makes sense.


BH-29 (me)
WW-28

Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Old Blighty
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IC told me the more I did around the house, the more fWW resented what I was doing and respected me less because I did not insist she did her fair share.

If I may say so, this is horseshit. Your wife didn't "resent" you because you were doing more work. As a matter of fact, the fact that she LET you do more work shows how selfish she was. That selfishness was what helped her to feel she was entitled to screw around, but that is all on her being broken. There is no cause-and-effect from you doing more work.

I also did the lion's share of the work around the house, and the parenting to our kids. I had some serious self esteem issues, and was convinced that I was never doing enough. My wife let that happen, and chose to use her extra time to go out and screw other people.

If that's the biggest CRIME that they can come up with to transfer some of the "blame" to you, then you, my friend, are squeaky clean.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1939 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
nomoreplease
♂ Member
Member # 32755
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

seethelight,
Still, if a wayward had an affair due to this broken type of thinking, that makes staying married to someone who thinks like this all the more frightening.
Yup, that is why it is so important for the WS to fix their shit for R. And I will say, as someone who is Ded and back out dating, with what I know about As and wayward thinking in general finding someone new is pretty scary as well.
I am not sure if this applies to my wayward, but it's a possibility.
I would be surprised if it applies exactly to any wayward, but IMO the thought processes are often this screwed up. Im not sure if or how much you read in the wayward forum, but it appears to me that many/most (maybe even all) of those that have really dealt with their issues have had to majorly shift some thought processes.

Pass,

If I may say so, this is horseshit. Your wife didn't "resent" you because you were doing more work.
Resentment is a feeling, just like the lurrvve during an A. And just like lurrvve it doesnt need to be based in reality or on logical thinking. You are trying to use rational thought processes to understand the irrational.


Divorced...and moving on!

Posts: 416 | Registered: Jul 2011
Pass
♂ Member
Member # 38122
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nomoreplease,

Resentment is a feeling, just like the lurrvve during an A. And just like lurrvve it doesnt need to be based in reality or on logical thinking. You are trying to use rational thought processes to understand the irrational.

You make a good point.


Loyal spouse: Me; Disloyal spouse: The Princess
Two sons: Now 11 and 14
DDay: Nov 15, 2012
Separated: Mar 2, 2013 after 17 year marriage, now divorcing!

The best thing about hitting rock bottom is that everything after that looks fucking fabulous


Posts: 1939 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Mercilesslynuked
♂ Member
Member # 42997
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is an excellent light shone down the path:
And I will say, as someone who is Ded and back out dating, with what I know about As and wayward thinking in general finding someone new is pretty scary as well.
Thanks for the reminder that the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side. I read once upon a time and intellectualized it that a former wayward (and I mean a truly remorseful former wayward) is a safer bet than someone new. Those of us with waywards striving hard should keep this in mind.

Eta: you just got me closer to emotionalizing this, thank you.

[This message edited by Mercilesslynuked at 1:52 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]


Never apologize for having high standards. People who really want to be in your life will rise up to meet them.

D-day 1/6/2014-1/23/2014


Posts: 155 | Registered: Apr 2014 | From: Colorado
Brandon808
♂ Member
Member # 35619
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can anyone help me understand this or am I trying to apply logic where none exists?
Well I would say you are trying to apply logic where none exists. I don't think your IC was saying that your fww's resentment was correct. IC was just explaining the thought process there regardless of how messed it up it is/was. I've found some people just resent it when other people help them. It gets to them because they're very insecure about themselves and have irrational reactions.


xBH
D final 8/2012

Posts: 3810 | Registered: May 2012 | From: southeast
HighlandPaddy
♂ Member
Member # 43930
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had a very similar thing in my life. My wife went to law school while I worked 50+ hours and took care of the household.
I never realized how many others were in the same boat.

It does make sense on some level.


So live your life that fear of death can never enter your heart.

Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2014 | From: NY
IrishLass518
♀ Member
Member # 34373
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2014View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't see them resenting us for doing too much. I do know that the more I did around the house the less "needed" he felt. I honestly believe that he saw me as more capable than him and it made him feel "less than". I think he needed to be with someone who he could be a KISA for instead of helping me with what we already had. I think he created his own sharp contrast between myself and OWifetress. I don't think he resented me, I think he resented not being as capable as me.


Me: 46 BS Divorced
Him: 45 Married OW
DDay: 07/04/2008
Divorced: 06/15/2011
5 kids: IrishLass 27,IrishLad 25, IrishLass 23, IrishLad 21 and IrishLad 12
"You can't run from trouble..there ain't no place that far"

Posts: 1755 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: WA
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